People are playing more restoration angels to negate the effect of Dungeon Geist. I know we have our Angels to blink it again, but I'm starting to feel that instead of locking them down, why not make a copy of a Thragtusk, AOS, and other legendary creatures like Olivia and Sigarda instead. It's also a decent SB card against the Frites matchup.
I know some of us are still using Dungeon Geist as a SB card. But decks are starting to adapt. I'm thinking of swapping it with Clone. I know it costs 4 mana, but it's pretty good now that the meta is all about midrange and control. What do you guys think?
I stated this in the origional thread. Clone is a very useful card in the current meta. Look at the most popular and powerful cards out there right now. Thragtusk up there at number 1, and he is everywhere, and he is always worth a Clone. I'm not ganna bother stating the other value creatures worth while cause is is out there enought for me to want 2 in the SB.
One a Dungeon Geist note. I dont think decks are adapting to him, hes a 3/3 body that can be dealt with like many creature. You could say Resto puts him to waste but I would not say that is targeted at him.
Gotta say of the things I'm thinking about in Standard, how to play around Dungeon Geists isn't one of them.
I still like them. Against Angel of Serenity it's good, and its still fine vs. Thragtusk. And against aggro decks it slows down Smiter's while being hard to kill.
I'm intrigued by the pike variant (although I've never been a fan of Thought Scour). Mostly because it has the cards I've been trying to work into the list; mainly sphinx's revelation and (at least) one rewind. I think I'm going to take his shell and go -4 Thought Scour -2 Runechanter's Pike +4 Desperate Ravings +2 Thundermaw Hellkite.
I've been wanting to find a way to put desperate ravings into the list as well, but I wasn't positive on what to cut so it seems like an easy swap there, at least to test it out. Anyways, just thought I would throw the lists out in case there are people that haven't seen them.
Thought scour let's you get away with playing 23 lands.
Thought scour is the only reason pike is even viable.
Thought scour makes your Snapcasters and Moorland Haunts A LOT better.
Thought scour let's your Charms function as permanent removal.
On Friday before the event I went to I did some playtesting and realize how crucial Unsommon was. So I made some changes and added 2 unsommon's. Here the deck list I used.
Went 5-0-1 before and Top 8'ed. Round 1 of top 8 I loose to myself basically after making 2 miss plays. Game 2 I stick a GoST on turn three and he scoups. Game 3 went out super long and I just ran out of answers. Love how the deck is set up however Cavern is starting to pop up in some people's decks now.
Dungeon Geists was a real house for me. Remember we can use our own Rest angels to change the targets of a tapped creature. I remember having a GoST and a Dungeon Gesits in play and my oppoennt having a 2 thragtusk (one of them tapped down obviously.) And me going end of your turn flash in rest angel, blink my Dungeon Geists change the target to the non tapped Thragtusk. My turn, alpha strike for 12 dissipate the Rest angel he tries to play. GG.
Martial Law seems kinda meh. I'd rather have the 3/3 bodies of dungeon Geists than an enchantment that does almost the same thing.
is Dungeon Geists a good sideboard card against Jund (or at least I saw here around somewhere)? I tried a few times and it basically became a Crippling Chill. You tap out his Tusk, he uses removal and the game goes on.
@Gifts Unsummon has been a great card for me as well. I initially thought that Cyclonic Rift was going to be better, since it could bounce other problematic permanents, but in the end a Turn 1 vs a Turn 2 (and as a consequence Turn 3 vs Turn 4 with Snappy) has a LOT of difference. Even with so many ETB creatures, sometimes you just need to clear the board for a lethal next turn. Also Essence Scatter pairs very well with Unsummon
Turn 7: You control Restoration Angel, Geist of Saint Traft. Opponent goes and plays Thragtusk, you have a counter, but you also have Dungeon Geists. You save the counter. They go to 18 life. You drop Dungeon Geists, tap it down, swing for 9. Next turn, they play something into your counter, you swing for 9 again, you win.
Same situation, but Clone instead. You gain 5 life sure. But they still have a Thragtusk.
New situation. Reanimator player plays AoS. Exiles an Angel of Serenity from their yard, your Thundermaw Hellkite, and their Thragtusk (this has happened to me). Your going to Clone their Angel and then what? Whereas you run out Geists, they can't resto it. They have to kill your Geists or else you can take over the game now.
Clone makes us play the same game they are. I think Clone is good, but not in the same situations Geists is. The problem is I don't know where Clone is good atm. Cuz its not better than Geists against Reanimator, or Jund imo. The only time I'd rather see Clone against Jund is when they play Olivia, but I have removal for it.
is Dungeon Geists a good sideboard card against Jund (or at least I saw here around somewhere)? I tried a few times and it basically became a Crippling Chill. You tap out his Tusk, he uses removal and the game goes on.
@Gifts Unsummon has been a great card for me as well. I initially thought that Cyclonic Rift was going to be better, since it could bounce other problematic permanents, but in the end a Turn 1 vs a Turn 2 (and as a consequence Turn 3 vs Turn 4 with Snappy) has a LOT of difference. Even with so many ETB creatures, sometimes you just need to clear the board for a lethal next turn. Also Essence Scatter pairs very well with Unsummon
The key is to utilize your counters with the Geists. Never tap out for Dungeon Geists vs. Jund. If you have the counter, take the 5 the first turn.
Yes Unsummon is good. In the Pike version I'm down to 1 just for rooms sake, but I like 2 in the normal version.
I guess I can see how big an alpha strike off a Geist can be, but at the same time, Restoration Angel is a card seeing much more play and if they do restoration angel it you are set back a great deal. The thing about having Clone instead is that we can beat them at their own game. If we are playing their game with a steady tempo and they are playing their game and being set back turn after turn we easily pull ahead.
I am not sure which is better, but Geist doing his thing only to run into a Restoration Angel is a tempo loss for us and a big very big one if they are hitting their AoS or Thragtusk. That alone is enough for me to worry about how valid Geist is anymore.
EDIT
So I am moving to a more Pike oriented Version. A buddy played it at FNM (The UW version) and I really liked it. However I liked the raw power UWr Midrange could start dishing out with things like GoST and Thundermaw Hellkite. Being able to drop down to 23 land made me a little more comfortable as well, and with DayOldHate's opinion being something I value, I took his comments to heart. Here is the list I am currently sitting with:
Azorius Charm over Ravings is something I am just now trying. I like Ravings but at the same time if I have few cards in my hand and Ravings, I never want to be playing it. So I made the switch to Azorius Charm to see how it works. It still +1's Pike and draws me a card but it is also going to act as pseudo removal in matches where it counts, like GW as well as Lifegain where it matters such as against RbDW.
Onto what I am finding tested and true.
We have 2 Game plans, UWr Midrange or Pike-Go-ish style of play. Some opponents are not sure what to play against and I find this fact shinning against Slaughter Games. Do they take out GoST or Thundermawk Hellkite? Are they more afraid of those cards or a Runechanter's Pike sneaking up out of nowhere? It has diversity as well as 2 great angles of attack.
Izzet Charm is still a great catchall for me. I can narrow down to what is most relevant to give the deck more focus after SB or if I simply want more counter for something such as the mirror, it helps me as extra as well. 2 Seems to be my number for them no matter how I build UWr. It is also going to double up as a means to feed a Pike much like Desperate Ravings would from time to time.
1 Slayer's Stronghold and 1 Moorland Haunt. In UWr Midrange I like Slayer's Stronghold, but Moorland Haunt is going to give us incredible reach for a strong endgame against the mirror, UWr Midrange and UW Flash. The extra body is great. However I worry at some point I will scour it away, which I have yet to actually do. Not sure on the split but in theory it is where I want to be. Being able to smash down with a vigilant hasted GoST or pushing through extra damage with a Snapcaster, or making a body to carry pike or in dream land have both options.
Sideboard...
I have been advocating Izzet Staticaster for a while now and with the ability to carry a Pike the Staticaster is even better. A wall against aggro, a death machine against dorks and tokens as well as a flashing, hasting pike carrier. She offers diversity, protection and a point of attack. She can even find Vigilance from time to time.
Pillar of Flame is something I am not sure I want 4 of, 3 seems to have worked just fine for me before, but idk. I would hate to run into Zombie and not have it. Also helps remove dudes in the RbDW match.
Purify the Grave is something I am also on the fence about. It always seemed a little excessive in UWr Midrange, but I am not sure how well this deck is going to do with Reanimator so 1 seems like it is going to be where I want to be for now, maybe 2 if testing shows the match is somewhat challenging.
Erase is something I would also like to squeeze in for the occasional Detention Sphere, but with UWr Midrange beat sticks and Pike for a backup or even the other way around, I am not sure it is needed.
So that is where I am at with UWR right now. With UWr Midrange taking down last weekend and UW Flash taking down this weekend, smashing the two together seems like the next best thing
Well they won't be hitting their Angel of Serenity, and a Restoration Angel on a Thragtusk sucks anyway so i'll take it. Remember, we do have counters and our own Angels to counteract it.
If AoS has resolved, why would they not flash it, remove some dudes and refill their hand all while keeping the angel untouched by DG? Idk, I think it will remain a preference and I don't think either one is entirely right or wrong. Play style I guess.
Also, edited my above post a bit to touch on UWr Flash.
Then, if this has happened to you, rage because flashing an Angel of Serenity is illegal
Edit: The reason this deck works is its counterspells. Your running 4 counter spells. Sure, Izzet Charm is a counter as well. But not as good as Sycopate, which cutting is, imo, wrong.
The problem i'm having with the UWR Pike deck is lack of room. It is such a tight list
I can understand and respect your points here. (I personally would always counter Thrag but despite that) You do make a very valid point on the potential Geists has so I'll try him some more and see what I prefer.
You are correct, Clone does make you play the same game and not always give you the board control. Although to me he is a variety creature. I can make him a Thundermaw in my own deck alone, or beven better AoS and clear the field as well. Kills Legend's along with GoST in the mirror.
For me its a hard say wich helps more, I'm ganna bounce back between the two and see whats need more.
Read Restoration Angel again.
Edit: The reason this deck works is its counterspells. Your running 4 counter spells. Sure, Izzet Charm is a counter as well. But not as good as Sycopate, which cutting is, imo, wrong.
The problem i'm having with the UWR Pike deck is lack of room. It is such a tight list
If you are counting Essence Scatter as a counterspell you might as well count Izzet charm as a counterspell.
Like I said, it is a catch all card that can be tuned with SB to give the deck a stronger focus on removal/counter/dig
You are right, finding room is difficult, which is why I am doubling up on Charms rather than upping the number of burn or counter. Compacting the slots helps the deck immensely and I feel that is what the deck needs if UWr Pike is going to work.
Syncopate is amazing, but when it comes down to it, Izzet Charm still wins counter wars against Syncopate it burns out cheap and early aggressive creatures and it digs me for answers while fueling Pike. It provides diversity on multiple levels. Acting as functional Desperate Ravings, Burn and Counter all in a compacted slot. While the options may not be the best, it is this diversity that makes it such a strong card in the deck.
As we can also expect to see Cavern of Souls peppering itself into moor decks of UWX tempo taking two weeks of SCG I feel Syncopate becoming worse against aggressive decks in a deck that already has a very strong control game.
Thought scour let's you get away with playing 23 lands.
Thought scour is the only reason pike is even viable.
Thought scour makes your Snapcasters and Moorland Haunts A LOT better.
Thought scour let's your Charms function as permanent removal.
What is it that you don't like about it?
Thought scour requires other cards to do anything beyond replacing itself. If I (or someone) wanted to be all in on pike then I would agree that 4 Thought Scours would probably be a necessary concession. Desperate Ravings fuels SnapMage and Moorland Haunt just as well as Thought Scour, while providing actual card advantage without needing another card to do it. Which is important against Jund and Control MU's.
I think charm + thought scour is fine. But there are so many value creatures in standard right now that even that combination is still probably a disadvantage to us in most MU's; and the MU's where it isn't we probably don't need to do that, as just forcing them to draw their vanilla creature again and recast it is just as good.
Thought Scour casting 1, milling, and not accidently discard something you really wanted is important.
With Desperate Ravings, you draw 4 cards and lose 2 + the Ravings itself. for 5 mana. So +1.
With Thought Scour, you have the potential to draw 3 cards. Ravings is a good card, don't get me wrong. But I think in this case you want Thought Scour. Or else the decks running Raving's would've played 4 Ravings, not 2-3
If you are counting Essence Scatter as a counterspell you might as well count Izzet charm as a counterspell.
Like I said, it is a catch all card that can be tuned with SB to give the deck a stronger focus on removal/counter/dig
You are right, finding room is difficult, which is why I am doubling up on Charms rather than upping the number of burn or counter. Compacting the slots helps the deck immensely and I feel that is what the deck needs if UWr Pike is going to work.
Syncopate is amazing, but when it comes down to it, Izzet Charm still wins counter wars against Syncopate it burns out cheap and early aggressive creatures and it digs me for answers while fueling Pike. It provides diversity on multiple levels. Acting as functional Desperate Ravings, Burn and Counter all in a compacted slot. While the options may not be the best, it is this diversity that makes it such a strong card in the deck.
As we can also expect to see Cavern of Souls peppering itself into moor decks of UWX tempo taking two weeks of SCG I feel Syncopate becoming worse against aggressive decks in a deck that already has a very strong control game.
I'm not saying cut Izzet Charm for Syncopate. the opposite. I like Izzet Charm. But I only run 1.
I just think that against a deck like Jund, you want a lot of counterspells like Syncopate and Dissipate, not so much Negate
I'm not saying cut Izzet Charm for Syncopate. the opposite. I like Izzet Charm. But I only run 1.
I just think that against a deck like Jund, you want a lot of counterspells like Syncopate and Dissipate, not so much Negate
Junds threats are are something they generally tap out for if they are trying to be the aggressor, and if they are trying to control the game they will fall flat against hast/flash dudes and a pike. Idk, seems that the lack of Instant speed removal on their end is what lets us crush them.
Syncopate is amazing, but when it comes down to it, Izzet Charm still wins counter wars against Syncopate it burns out cheap and early aggressive creatures and it digs me for answers while fueling Pike. It provides diversity on multiple levels. Acting as functional Desperate Ravings, Burn and Counter all in a compacted slot. While the options may not be the best, it is this diversity that makes it such a strong card in the deck.
I am currently playing Izzet Charm as a 2 of, over Pillars and has done great things for me. It's pretty good against Jund when you counter their turn 2 Farseek. It allows you to drop your GoST and start applying pressure without having to worry about a turn 3 Huntmaster. It's also good if you are playing the counter wars against other blue decks.
But I would never cut Syncopates for Izzet Charm just because it's very flexible and can exile threats.
As we can also expect to see Cavern of Souls peppering itself into moor decks of UWX tempo taking two weeks of SCG I feel Syncopate becoming worse against aggressive decks in a deck that already has a very strong control game.
I personally feel that Cavern shouldn't hurt us that much. The decks that run 4 of them are mostly tribal like UW Humans or Zombies, which is a small part of the metagame. We have access to Pillars and Supreme Verdict post board for them. Tier 1 decks like Bant and Jund might use them, max of 2 copies but they can't make the most of it because they have different types of creatures.
In my experience, the games that are easiest against Jund are when we can answer their threats early, drop a threat and just beat them down. Since we're already cutting Detention Sphere, a good card in my experience vs. them, I dont think cutting Syncopates is a good call.
I realise post board its a good matchup, as we can tune the deck even more, but I dont think we should change an already successful gameplan into a relatively more untested one. I'm of the "if it ain't broke, dont fix it" camp.
Just my opinion. I feel finding more room for at least 2 Syncopates is big. 6+ counters is the "core" and as there are more game impacting creatures atm then non-creatures (the top 5 cards in standard, only 1 isnt a creature: Jace) Essence Scatter is the better card main.
I think cutting 1 Izzet Charm, 1 Thundermaw for 2 Syncopate may help the deck. I would even consider cutting an Unsummon but I won't suggest it until I'm sure 1 is satisfactoy as opposed to 2.
I think we should still keep Unsummon post board against Jund. Since their removal are mostly sorcery speed, it can save our own guy and resets an Olivia if it gets too big.
How many dissipates are you running DXI? I think having 3 in the main is enough and if we need more counters, we can just add the 3rd Dissipate.
I'm running 2 in each of my 2 lists. The counter slot I like in both are 1 Izzet Charm, 2 Essence Scatter, 2 Dissipate, 3 Syncopate. If I were to go to 2 Unsummon, I would probably cut 1 of the Syncopates but I've been happy with this mix.
Using Unsummon on Olivia is a huge set back for them especially if they have one of your creatures. I like siding in 1 Negate against Jund.
@DXI-Edge I would cut an Izzet charm for an Unsummon depending on how much burn you are running. I have been really happy running 2 since I have added them to my list.
I stated this in the origional thread. Clone is a very useful card in the current meta. Look at the most popular and powerful cards out there right now. Thragtusk up there at number 1, and he is everywhere, and he is always worth a Clone. I'm not ganna bother stating the other value creatures worth while cause is is out there enought for me to want 2 in the SB.
One a Dungeon Geist note. I dont think decks are adapting to him, hes a 3/3 body that can be dealt with like many creature. You could say Resto puts him to waste but I would not say that is targeted at him.
Isn't Clone better in those scenarios anyways?
Darin Minard (MD Jace)
4 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Instants
4 Azorius Charm
2 Dissipate
2 Essence Scatter
3 Searing Spear
3 Syncopate
2 Unsummon
Legendary Creatures
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
Sorceries
3 Pillar of Flame
Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
Lands
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Slayers' Stronghold
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Dungeon Geists
1 Dispel
1 Dissipate
1 Erase
2 Negate
2 Purify the Grave
1 Searing Spear
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
3 Supreme Verdict
Fang Ho (Pike Variant)
3 Runechanter's Pike
Creatures
4 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
Instants
3 Azorius Charm
3 Dissipate
2 Essence Scatter
1 Rewind
3 Searing Spear
2 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Thought Scour
4 Geist of Saint Traft
Sorceries
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Pillar of Flame
Basic Lands
2 Island
1 Plains
Lands
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Moorland Haunt
4 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Detention Sphere
2 Dispel
1 Faith's Shield
1 Negate
2 Purify the Grave
1 Sundering Growth
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Supreme Verdict
I'm intrigued by the pike variant (although I've never been a fan of Thought Scour). Mostly because it has the cards I've been trying to work into the list; mainly sphinx's revelation and (at least) one rewind. I think I'm going to take his shell and go -4 Thought Scour -2 Runechanter's Pike +4 Desperate Ravings +2 Thundermaw Hellkite.
I've been wanting to find a way to put desperate ravings into the list as well, but I wasn't positive on what to cut so it seems like an easy swap there, at least to test it out. Anyways, just thought I would throw the lists out in case there are people that haven't seen them.
Thought scour is the only reason pike is even viable.
Thought scour makes your Snapcasters and Moorland Haunts A LOT better.
Thought scour let's your Charms function as permanent removal.
What is it that you don't like about it?
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Restoration Angel
2x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Pillar of Flame
2x Bonfire of the Damned
3x Searing Spear
2x Detention Sphere
2x Unsommon
1x Azorius Charm
2x Izzet Charm
2x Essence Scatter
2x Dissipate
2x Syncopate
1x Feeling of Dread
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Glacial Fortress
2x Clifftop Retreat
2x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Slayer's Stronghold
1x Moorland Haunt
1x Dispel
2x Negate
1x Dissipate
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Dungeon Geists
2x Supreme Verdict
2x Purify the Grave
2x Pillar of Flame
Went 5-0-1 before and Top 8'ed. Round 1 of top 8 I loose to myself basically after making 2 miss plays. Game 2 I stick a GoST on turn three and he scoups. Game 3 went out super long and I just ran out of answers. Love how the deck is set up however Cavern is starting to pop up in some people's decks now.
Martial Law seems kinda meh. I'd rather have the 3/3 bodies of dungeon Geists than an enchantment that does almost the same thing.
@Gifts Unsummon has been a great card for me as well. I initially thought that Cyclonic Rift was going to be better, since it could bounce other problematic permanents, but in the end a Turn 1 vs a Turn 2 (and as a consequence Turn 3 vs Turn 4 with Snappy) has a LOT of difference. Even with so many ETB creatures, sometimes you just need to clear the board for a lethal next turn. Also Essence Scatter pairs very well with Unsummon
My old nickname was lockheart87.
Here's the thing: I don't think so.
See, take this situation:
Turn 7: You control Restoration Angel, Geist of Saint Traft. Opponent goes and plays Thragtusk, you have a counter, but you also have Dungeon Geists. You save the counter. They go to 18 life. You drop Dungeon Geists, tap it down, swing for 9. Next turn, they play something into your counter, you swing for 9 again, you win.
Same situation, but Clone instead. You gain 5 life sure. But they still have a Thragtusk.
New situation. Reanimator player plays AoS. Exiles an Angel of Serenity from their yard, your Thundermaw Hellkite, and their Thragtusk (this has happened to me). Your going to Clone their Angel and then what? Whereas you run out Geists, they can't resto it. They have to kill your Geists or else you can take over the game now.
Clone makes us play the same game they are. I think Clone is good, but not in the same situations Geists is. The problem is I don't know where Clone is good atm. Cuz its not better than Geists against Reanimator, or Jund imo. The only time I'd rather see Clone against Jund is when they play Olivia, but I have removal for it.
The key is to utilize your counters with the Geists. Never tap out for Dungeon Geists vs. Jund. If you have the counter, take the 5 the first turn.
Yes Unsummon is good. In the Pike version I'm down to 1 just for rooms sake, but I like 2 in the normal version.
Anyone wanna help me tweak this one?
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Restoration Angel
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Runechanter's Pike
4 Thought Scour
3 Azorius Charm
1 Izzet Charm
3 Searing Spear
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Syncopate
2 Dissipate
2 Essence Scatter
1 Unsummon
4 Steam Vents
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Clifftop Retreat
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Moorland Haunt
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
I am not sure which is better, but Geist doing his thing only to run into a Restoration Angel is a tempo loss for us and a big very big one if they are hitting their AoS or Thragtusk. That alone is enough for me to worry about how valid Geist is anymore.
EDIT
So I am moving to a more Pike oriented Version. A buddy played it at FNM (The UW version) and I really liked it. However I liked the raw power UWr Midrange could start dishing out with things like GoST and Thundermaw Hellkite. Being able to drop down to 23 land made me a little more comfortable as well, and with DayOldHate's opinion being something I value, I took his comments to heart. Here is the list I am currently sitting with:
2 Runechanter's Pike
Creatures
4 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Thundermaw Hellkite
Instants
2 Essence Scatter
2 Izzet Charm
3 Searing Spear
2 Dissipate
2 Unsummon
4 Thought Scour
3 Azorius Charm
4 Geist of Saint Traft
Sorceries
2 Pillar of Flame
Land
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Slayer's Stronghold
2 Dissipate
2 Negate
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Izzet Staticaster
1 Purify the Grave
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Clone
1 Essence Scatter
Azorius Charm over Ravings is something I am just now trying. I like Ravings but at the same time if I have few cards in my hand and Ravings, I never want to be playing it. So I made the switch to Azorius Charm to see how it works. It still +1's Pike and draws me a card but it is also going to act as pseudo removal in matches where it counts, like GW as well as Lifegain where it matters such as against RbDW.
Onto what I am finding tested and true.
We have 2 Game plans, UWr Midrange or Pike-Go-ish style of play. Some opponents are not sure what to play against and I find this fact shinning against Slaughter Games. Do they take out GoST or Thundermawk Hellkite? Are they more afraid of those cards or a Runechanter's Pike sneaking up out of nowhere? It has diversity as well as 2 great angles of attack.
Izzet Charm is still a great catchall for me. I can narrow down to what is most relevant to give the deck more focus after SB or if I simply want more counter for something such as the mirror, it helps me as extra as well. 2 Seems to be my number for them no matter how I build UWr. It is also going to double up as a means to feed a Pike much like Desperate Ravings would from time to time.
1 Slayer's Stronghold and 1 Moorland Haunt. In UWr Midrange I like Slayer's Stronghold, but Moorland Haunt is going to give us incredible reach for a strong endgame against the mirror, UWr Midrange and UW Flash. The extra body is great. However I worry at some point I will scour it away, which I have yet to actually do. Not sure on the split but in theory it is where I want to be. Being able to smash down with a vigilant hasted GoST or pushing through extra damage with a Snapcaster, or making a body to carry pike or in dream land have both options.
Sideboard...
I have been advocating Izzet Staticaster for a while now and with the ability to carry a Pike the Staticaster is even better. A wall against aggro, a death machine against dorks and tokens as well as a flashing, hasting pike carrier. She offers diversity, protection and a point of attack. She can even find Vigilance from time to time.
Pillar of Flame is something I am not sure I want 4 of, 3 seems to have worked just fine for me before, but idk. I would hate to run into Zombie and not have it. Also helps remove dudes in the RbDW match.
Purify the Grave is something I am also on the fence about. It always seemed a little excessive in UWr Midrange, but I am not sure how well this deck is going to do with Reanimator so 1 seems like it is going to be where I want to be for now, maybe 2 if testing shows the match is somewhat challenging.
Erase is something I would also like to squeeze in for the occasional Detention Sphere, but with UWr Midrange beat sticks and Pike for a backup or even the other way around, I am not sure it is needed.
So that is where I am at with UWR right now. With UWr Midrange taking down last weekend and UW Flash taking down this weekend, smashing the two together seems like the next best thing
Just a thought
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Also, edited my above post a bit to touch on UWr Flash.
Then look at Angel of Serenity's card type.
Then, if this has happened to you, rage because flashing an Angel of Serenity is illegal
Edit: The reason this deck works is its counterspells. Your running 4 counter spells. Sure, Izzet Charm is a counter as well. But not as good as Sycopate, which cutting is, imo, wrong.
The problem i'm having with the UWR Pike deck is lack of room. It is such a tight list
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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I can understand and respect your points here. (I personally would always counter Thrag but despite that) You do make a very valid point on the potential Geists has so I'll try him some more and see what I prefer.
You are correct, Clone does make you play the same game and not always give you the board control. Although to me he is a variety creature. I can make him a Thundermaw in my own deck alone, or beven better AoS and clear the field as well. Kills Legend's along with GoST in the mirror.
For me its a hard say wich helps more, I'm ganna bounce back between the two and see whats need more.
If you are counting Essence Scatter as a counterspell you might as well count Izzet charm as a counterspell.
Like I said, it is a catch all card that can be tuned with SB to give the deck a stronger focus on removal/counter/dig
You are right, finding room is difficult, which is why I am doubling up on Charms rather than upping the number of burn or counter. Compacting the slots helps the deck immensely and I feel that is what the deck needs if UWr Pike is going to work.
Syncopate is amazing, but when it comes down to it, Izzet Charm still wins counter wars against Syncopate it burns out cheap and early aggressive creatures and it digs me for answers while fueling Pike. It provides diversity on multiple levels. Acting as functional Desperate Ravings, Burn and Counter all in a compacted slot. While the options may not be the best, it is this diversity that makes it such a strong card in the deck.
As we can also expect to see Cavern of Souls peppering itself into moor decks of UWX tempo taking two weeks of SCG I feel Syncopate becoming worse against aggressive decks in a deck that already has a very strong control game.
Thought scour requires other cards to do anything beyond replacing itself. If I (or someone) wanted to be all in on pike then I would agree that 4 Thought Scours would probably be a necessary concession. Desperate Ravings fuels SnapMage and Moorland Haunt just as well as Thought Scour, while providing actual card advantage without needing another card to do it. Which is important against Jund and Control MU's.
I think charm + thought scour is fine. But there are so many value creatures in standard right now that even that combination is still probably a disadvantage to us in most MU's; and the MU's where it isn't we probably don't need to do that, as just forcing them to draw their vanilla creature again and recast it is just as good.
With Desperate Ravings, you draw 4 cards and lose 2 + the Ravings itself. for 5 mana. So +1.
With Thought Scour, you have the potential to draw 3 cards. Ravings is a good card, don't get me wrong. But I think in this case you want Thought Scour. Or else the decks running Raving's would've played 4 Ravings, not 2-3
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I'm not saying cut Izzet Charm for Syncopate. the opposite. I like Izzet Charm. But I only run 1.
I just think that against a deck like Jund, you want a lot of counterspells like Syncopate and Dissipate, not so much Negate
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Junds threats are are something they generally tap out for if they are trying to be the aggressor, and if they are trying to control the game they will fall flat against hast/flash dudes and a pike. Idk, seems that the lack of Instant speed removal on their end is what lets us crush them.
I am currently playing Izzet Charm as a 2 of, over Pillars and has done great things for me. It's pretty good against Jund when you counter their turn 2 Farseek. It allows you to drop your GoST and start applying pressure without having to worry about a turn 3 Huntmaster. It's also good if you are playing the counter wars against other blue decks.
But I would never cut Syncopates for Izzet Charm just because it's very flexible and can exile threats.
I personally feel that Cavern shouldn't hurt us that much. The decks that run 4 of them are mostly tribal like UW Humans or Zombies, which is a small part of the metagame. We have access to Pillars and Supreme Verdict post board for them. Tier 1 decks like Bant and Jund might use them, max of 2 copies but they can't make the most of it because they have different types of creatures.
I realise post board its a good matchup, as we can tune the deck even more, but I dont think we should change an already successful gameplan into a relatively more untested one. I'm of the "if it ain't broke, dont fix it" camp.
Just my opinion. I feel finding more room for at least 2 Syncopates is big. 6+ counters is the "core" and as there are more game impacting creatures atm then non-creatures (the top 5 cards in standard, only 1 isnt a creature: Jace) Essence Scatter is the better card main.
I think cutting 1 Izzet Charm, 1 Thundermaw for 2 Syncopate may help the deck. I would even consider cutting an Unsummon but I won't suggest it until I'm sure 1 is satisfactoy as opposed to 2.
Just a thought
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Modern
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How many dissipates are you running DXI? I think having 3 in the main is enough and if we need more counters, we can just add the 3rd Dissipate.
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Modern
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I am officially WORRIED, about your decks. Well done.
@DXI-Edge I would cut an Izzet charm for an Unsummon depending on how much burn you are running. I have been really happy running 2 since I have added them to my list.