Welcome to the Bant Flash Primer! Bant Flash is a mix between an Aggro/Midrange deck and Bant Control. Like RUG Flash, the deck has a balance of beaters and counterspells, so that we can basically play all of our threats whenever it's most convenient.
Why Bant instead of RUG?
Mainly because of this new card:
DGM gave us a 5/5 Trample token for 4 mana that is a spell. That is very powerful here, and allows us to dig with cards like Augur of Bolas to grab it, or use Snapcaster Mage to flash it back. Being a token has its downsides in a deck without Populate, but it still gives us a pretty big edge on most cards.
So...how do we win?
Our deck wins by damage. Usually after turn 4 we can effectively have some nice bodies on the field and can keep mana up to protect them. The nice thing about the deck is the flexibility it offers. Usually our hands consist of counterspells and creatures, and we can be reactive or proactive depending on the situation. Eventually, we can wear down their resources and board presence to the point where we can go in and smash for the win. Because of how much value our creatures possess, we can usually win fairly quickly with a protected threat out.
Favorites
Augur of Bolas - Yeah, no Flash. But he helps us dig and find spells, staves off Aggro decks, and is still a decent body. I run 4 for consistency - dropping him turn 2 is preferred, and any later can be harmful for being able to keep mana open. He also works great with Resto.
Restoration Angel - This card is fantastic, and does everything we want. It flies, it blinks another guy, and can usually stop attackers cold.
Snapcaster Mage - Pops in and lets us reuse a spell. Plays well with Resto Angel. Self-explanatory card, really.
Possibles
Yeva, Nature's Herald - A 4/4 for 4 is great and when played on curve can usually kill off an attacker. We don't get any value off her second ability, though, which makes her a bit more vanilla than we want.
Wolfir Avenger - RUG's baby, and an efficient beater. Regeneration is a great keyword as well. He isn't a staple though, mainly because of Putrefy being reprinted, which can blow him out. If that card doesn't see play, he may get bumped up to 'Favorites'.
Testing
Quirion Dryad - Currently testing her out, and she is way better than I thought she would be, mainly because every spell we play triggers her, save for Yeva/Wolfir. She can put a lot of pressure on an opponent, but is weak against bounce effects and is very vulnerable when dropped. Still working it out. Verdict: Though this card gets a running start when we drop it turn two and can easily increase in size to become a real win con, it ends up being a very bad top draw and doesn't give us as much inherent value by casting it as our others do. Not to be completely forgotten, but for now it's a little too hit or miss.
Delver of Secrets - I don't think he belongs here, but certain builds could throw him in, seeing as the deck doesn't do anything turn 1 anyway. However, there is already a primer on Bant Delver.
Voice of Resurgence - This card seems out of place, but works really well in our deck actually. It basically lets us drop it and not really have to worry about protecting it. It also gives us an upper hand against other Control builds. It's pretty tough to cast turn two though, and may not be a perfect fit here, though it's close.
Favorites
Advent of the Wurm - This card is the real deal. 5/5 Trample for 4 mana is deadly, and can easily close a game out. Untapping with the token on the field lets us protect it from bounce effects, which are a major weakness. I have been running 3, but will probably up to 4.
Azorius Charm - Protection against creatures, a simple cantrip, or a lifegain all in one card. This card is great at helping us gain incremental advantage against our foes.
Selesnya Charm - This card helps us close the gap in bashing their face in and is our only source of real removal. Sometimes, getting a 2/2 is pretty good as well, letting us make a trade with a creature.
Dissipate - Pretty much the top counterspell right now, thanks to Rites. The exile effect is very important, and though I don't like settling for a glorified Cancel, sometimes we have to.
Syncopate - Great in the early game, not as good late game. Syncopate usually lets us make X=1, which gives us a two mana counterspell that exiles. That alone is great, but don't get too dependent on it. I run 2, though 3 doesn't seem out of reach.
Sphinx's Revelation - Bant Control is our cousin, so we may as well do as they do. This card lets us get back in the game and refill our hands, though I only run 2. Because our deck isn't a solid Control shell, multiples of these in your hand won't usually make you too happy.
Unsummon - A great card that gives us a great Tempo boost for one mana. We can usually Unsummon their best dude and then have a clear entryway for our Wurm token. Not as good as Azorius Charm, but it is usually enough to give us small incremental advantages. Simic Charm accomplishes the same thing, but for one more mana, which can sometimes just be too expensive.
Thought Scour - A cantrip that throws cards into the graveyard. To novices, it seems like you would mill your opponent, but milling ourselves is the way to go 99% of the time, since we don't lose value because we run Snapcaster Mages. It's a very good card, and paying one mana to draw a card is never a bad thing.
Rewind - A good counterspell in our deck that allows us to counter a spell, untap, and play a threat. It's a four mana counterspell, so as a 1-2 of it's fine, but can really give us a significant advantage when it goes off. In my testing, works very well in our decklist.
Possibles
Essence Scatter, Negate - Two selective counterspells. Our deck doesn't deal well with noncreature permanents, but also can get beaten up by Blitz decks. A 1/1 split isn't bad, but when in doubt, lean on Essence Scatter. The format is more creature heavy right now, so it tends to come in handy a bit more often.
Forbidden Alchemy - Selective digging, letting us dump Snapcaster targets in the yard as well. Splashing a couple black sources for flashback isn't a bad play either. However, this card is very much a 'long-term' card, best utilized in Control shells.
Think Twice - Cantrips are always nice, but I've come to believe that maybe this card is a bit slow. We don't want to be wasting card slots with drawing engines, and Azorius Charm can help if we really need it.
Simic Charm - Our other charm. This card is great, but maybe more sideboard-esque. The bouncing and hexproof are a little more circumstantial than we want, though the buff is fantastic.
Testing
Plasm Capture - As a one-of, this card has been great. It basically lets us play stuff on our turn, and still keep mana open for Flash or counterspells. That being said, it's still a 4-mana counterspell with a cost that can be tough to hit. It also is really tough to Snapcaster it. For now, I like it as a one slot for testing purposes. Verdict: After testing this one pretty extensively, I have to say that Rewind is pretty much better for a build that runs all Instants/Flash. Plasm can give some cool effects, like a huge Sphinx Rev or something, but Rewind gives us a quicker advantage. However, in decks that run boardwipes or Detention Sphere, this card can give you a great advantage on your turn, letting you play 'sorcery-speed' cards essentially for free.
Render Silent - A strange card, but works very well with Quirion Dryad. The nice thing about this card is it shuts down opponents who try and 'bait' our counterspells with less-impactful plays before a killer one. This makes them essentially waste their turn - though that ability alone isn't good enough to put this in.
Midnight Haunting - A forgotten gem! Midnight Haunting may be less than impressive next to Lingering Souls, but the Instant speed is relevant. Still, it doesn't really give us the bodies we want, since most of our guys are more impressive. In a more aggressive build it could work, or a build running Runechanter's Pike.
I don't play any Enchantments or Planeswalkers in my build, since I feel like that's against what the deck wants to do. However, there are two land slots that work very well in the deck:
Gavony Township - Slow, but curves out perfectly if we go Resto/Yeva/Wurm into it. It makes our field very dangerous and lets us hold back our creatures/spells so we don't overextend.
Moorland Haunt - Quick, and lets us trade pretty aggressively if we have to in exchange for an evasive (if weak) buyback. This card becomes weaker the less creatures you run, obviously.
Also, a brief discussion on Runechanter's Pike. The card is very good in our deck, because we win a significant amount of Instant/Sorceries. After testing, I didn't like it in my build, though plenty others have found success with it. It's going to depend on your meta, really. The nice thing about this card is it can basically win us the game if left unchecked, even if just slapped on a weenie.
There are a million cards you can run on the sideboard, most of them meta-dependent. Here are some key ones you definitely want to keep in mind.
Purify the Grave - Ground Seal hurts our Snapcasters, can be killed by Abrupt Decay, and doesn't hit off Augur. We can settle for this. Side in versus Reanimator and some Control matches.
Ground Seal, Rest in Peace - Both of these accomplish similar means. I don't like running them because most Reanimator decks run Abrupt Decay, which can end up making these useless. we also basically will have to side out Snapcasters to bring them in, which really hurts our spell's value. Not to mention makes Thought Scour way worse. Side in versus Reanimator and some Control matches.
Memory's Journey - This card has some pretty good uses against Reanimator. It doesn't exile their cards, but shuffling them in is sometimes just as good, and it has a cheap flashback cost. We can also use it on ourselves if graveyard hate gets used on us. Overall, I don't know how good it really is, because Reanimator does have so many digging spells so they can usually find the cards again, though it does slow them down considerably. Side versus Reanimator and decks that may play graveyard hate against us (Jund?).
Clone - This card can't Flash, but gives us a lot of value vs. Reanimator, since copying their Angel of Serenity is a sweet play. It also can help us vs Geist of Saint Traft, but if they accelaerate with a mana dork turn one, this card can just be too slow sometimes. Side in versus Reanimator and Bant Auras.
Negate - Side in versus Control, Reanimator, or Bant Auras.
Dispel - A good card versus the mirror or Control matchups that use Azorius Charm and similar cards to damage our field. Side in versus Control or RDW.
Feeling of Dread - When Azorius Charm isn't enough, this is a fallback. It may not seem impressive, but we basically just need to use it until we can drop a Wurm or another creature that is usually tougher than what Aggro can toss at us. Side in versus Aggro.
Simic Charm - Side in versus Control and some Midrange matches.
Ray of Revelation - One of the matchup weaknesses is bant enchantments, due to all the Hexproof. So we need to go for their buffs instead with this. Also helps against D-Sphere/O-Ring, and Rancor to an extent. Side in versus Bant Auras.
Okay, now that's out of the way. Deck list time!
This is what I have been running, and it has been performing very consistently. Like I said earlier, Quarion Dryad is still being tested, but it seems like a very good card and has impressed me a lot.
Todd Anderson also wrote an article about this decklist here, hitting some key points about the deck. Definitely worth a read (again, Premium member content). He doesn't like Plasm capture, and feels that the list runs too many four drops without acceleration, thinking that maybe a Farseek build could help. But then we are basically just running Bant Control with Advent of the Wurm, which we don't want to do.
Another recent article by Matt Costa (his decklist above) can be found on SCG Premium here. It's a great talk about how he felt playing the deck and where he thinks it should go. He recommends mainboarding Voice of Resurgence and possibly Runechanter's Pike, which is something I don't entirely agree with, and is something that will be discussed plenty at this thread, I'm sure. It's still a great read, obviously, and really hits some good points on how it works against the new meta.
AGGRO (RDW, NAYA BLITZ, ETC)
A pretty tough matchup for us is Aggro/Blitz decks. These decks have explosive starts, and we really aren't prepared to deal with early game beatdowns. However, Augur of Bolas usually can stave off a lot of the early threats, and if you can make it to a Supreme Verdict, you can usually turn the tide. Azorius Charms are a resource that helps us buy time against these decks, and must be used efficiently. Because of our weakness here, it is important to have Supreme Verdict as an option. Once we get the board to a less populated state, we can drop our Wurms and race from there.
MIDRANGE (JUND, ETC)
Against midrange, we have a good shot at winning game one. This is because a lot of midrange decks have a variety of creatures, making their Cavern of Souls less intimidating and their threats easier to counter. Usually, we spend the early game (much as they do) setting up for the mid game, where we just counter their threats and drop our own to win. Make use of bounce effects if you can't counter to make sure that we stop blockers. Thragtusk and Sire of Insanity are big threats to us. For both these threats, we have Selesnya Charm, which works wonders.
REANIMATOR
The Reanimator matchup can be rough, mainly because they have started adding Sin Collector to their ranks. Off a Cavern, this card can be very tough for us, and sets us way back. However, we have a lot of outs to Angel of Serenity, and using Selesnya Charm on their heavy hitters helps us make sure they won't come back. Our Wurms are also incredibly susceptible to Fiend Hunter, Angel, and Abrupt Decay. With some careful playing and a little bit of luck, game one should be okay, but it's a 50/50 shot.
CONTROL (ESPER, GRIXIS, ETC)
Against control, it becomes a pretty rough war of attrition at the beginning. You pretty much play chicken until someone tries to play something, then the counter wars begin. Our deck is light on counterspells, so usually we lose this battle, but sticking a Wurm or Resto Angel usually lets us beat them down and win. Esper fights in more unconventional methods, and is more difficult to overcome. Because of their reliance on a utility land and a Planeswalker to win (two cards we have no way to interact with), we usually fold to their extreme lineup of kill spells and bounce to protect their win-cons. It'll be a tough slog against Control, but if we can land a creature, we can usually ride it to victory.
THE MIRROR/OTHER FLASH DECKS
Similar to Control, this matchup devolves into 'who will play a card first?' so the other can counter it. Gutsy plays can either get you a win or get blown out, so play your cards carefully. If they tap out, take advantage of it and play something. The game will be won slowly and carefully, by getting in points of damage whenever possible.
More will be added to this post as we discuss the deck's build.
This thread is the official thread to discuss all Bant Flash decks.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I think I really like the Rewinds, countering a spell and then still having mana open for Advent of Wurm seems good.
Unsummon seems better then going overboard on counters, if we can disrupt there early game enough they will have huge amounts of trouble beating a 5/5 Wurm.
Awesome, I'll add that list to the first post - thanks!
Yeah, I forgot to address Unsummon - I think it's not bad here, because we basically gain a great Tempo advantage for minimal mana investment. Rewind is very good too. I'm currently trying out Plasm Capture, but it could be that the deck just wants Rewind so we can counter, untap, and play a threat, rather than waiting until our next turn. However, Plasm Capture does allow for some powerful Sphinx's Revelations, which is a nice upside, though not a reliable one.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I make art!
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Awesome, I'll add that list to the first post - thanks!
Yeah, I forgot to address Unsummon - I think it's not bad here, because we basically gain a great Tempo advantage for minimal mana investment. Rewind is very good too. I'm currently trying out Plasm Capture, but it could be that the deck just wants Rewind so we can counter, untap, and play a threat, rather than waiting until our next turn. However, Plasm Capture does allow for some powerful Sphinx's Revelations, which is a nice upside, though not a reliable one.
I think I prefer Plasm Capture in the versions of Bant that play Farseek. While it wont be all the time, it will still occasionally be a dead card if you draw the wrong lands.
I've been playing Plasm Capture and I agree. I'm switching over to Rewind to give it a shot, since I think in a build that has almost all Instants/Flash it's better. In versions that play Supreme Verdict/Farseek/Detention Sphere, Plasm Capture is definitely worth having, as even countering a 2CMC spell nets you a huge advantage.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I make art!
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I don't like Plasm Capture in this version of Bant, period. This version specializes in playing on the opponent's turn. Also, casting Plasm Capture while having nothing worth casting on your turn is like wanting to play Delver of Secrets in a Merfolk deck with 30 creatures. It's too out of place in my opinion. Even if running 2x Supreme Verdict. The chances of having Plasm Capture and Supreme Verdict in hand together is slim. I'll admit it can make for a great Sphinx's Revelation on your own turn for minimal mana, but that's about it.
My build also runs no Thought Scours, but rather 4x Selesnya Charm to deal with Sire of Insanity as soon as possible. I've said this before, but Sire of Insanity is the absolute last thing a Flash deck wants to see hit and stick.
I don't like Plasm Capture in this version of Bant, period. This version specializes in playing on the opponent's turn. Also, casting Plasm Capture while having nothing worth casting on your turn is like wanting to play Delver of Secrets in a Merfolk deck with 30 creatures. It's too out of place in my opinion. Even if running 2x Supreme Verdict. The chances of having Plasm Capture and Supreme Verdict in hand together is slim. I'll admit it can make for a great Sphinx's Revelation on your own turn for minimal mana, but that's about it.
I agree that Plasm Capture isn't exactly supplementing what the deck wants to do, but it can still be very powerful. Having both it and a Verdict in hand is not a high possibility, but depending on someone's build having a Plasm Capture with a Detention Sphere/Verdict/Revelation gives you a higher chance of taking advantage of it. In my description earlier, Capture still let's us play stuff without really dedicating mana to it, which is advantageous. However, I do think Rewind is a much better counter spell for what the deck wants to accomplish.
Also, what are your thoughts on Rapid Hybridization? The 3/3 token is not as bad with Unsummon/Azorius Charm, might consider maining 2 Unsummons.
I think Rapid Hybridization is a good card in our deck, since it gives us a real course of removal. However, dedicating two cards to work is not all that great. The token still loses to our Resto Angels and our Wurm tokens though, so it's not like we are exclusively reliant on Unsummon effects to stop the token. I think it's a good idea to toss in one or two in our 75, because of the extra mileage it can get us against targets Selesnya Charm can't hit, like Huntmaster and the new Blood Baron if it sees play. It's worth testing, at least.
Trying mainboard Unsummon with no Supreme Verdict:
This decklist feels pretty consistent and clean. 3 Sphinx may be a little much, but Its not like its a bad card or anything. I think actually having 4 Snapcaster is important. I run 3 right now, and he feels like one of the strongest points of the deck, since we run so many spells are part of our main strategy. I also like this more than Supreme Verdict builds because usually there are really only one or two creatures on the field giving us grief and Unsummoning them is usually preferable strategy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I make art!
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Didn't have the chance to get to any sideboard games but in preboard games I was 4-0.
I think the deck wants to run a 3/3 split of Augur and SnapMage, since finding Advent of the Wurm is usually more important than flashing it back. The only card I didn't find/cast in the 4 games was Ghost Quarter, so I don't know how helpful it is, but it didn't hurt the mana (although 4 games is a small sample size).
Plasm capture seems ok, but not until you are countering 5 or 6 drops, any other time rewind and syncopate are probably better, and if you don't have Sphinx revelation and 6+ mana (to leave open another counter) the following turn I don't think the extra mana does any good.
The deck might be fine without Verdict, but at least in this early meta I won't be leaving home without it. For those of you that do, good luck. I should be playing this list in a 4-5 round tournament tomorrow night so I'll have a chance to get some more varied playing in.
Def rewind over capture for reasons mentioned. At the end of his tech, Costa said he thinks the deck should turn toward using VoR, pike, and moorland after he witnessed the power of VoR throughout the day. I'd be interested to test that list
I think VoR absolutely belongs in the 75. I don't know if it's mainboard ready for us, only because the token it creates is pretty weak in our build. However, taking out cards for them in the mirror or Control matchups seems really awesome. I think we may want 3 on the Side.
Pike feels like it belongs in the deck, giving us some pretty aggressive options with minimal effort. Putting it on either one of our tokens is really nasty, and helps us not over extend, and still win races.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I make art!
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I had VoR in the SB to begin with, as that's what Gerry and Costa's sideboards had, but I just don't see how it does anything except chump block against aggro. Maybe the first half trades if we're lucky, but I don't see the second half trading with anything.
2 of the games I won against naya today my testing partner led with turn 2 VoR on the play, and it really wasn't that big of a deal against me, a deck designed to operate on my opponents turn, so I can't see how it would be that effective against other control decks.
Granted, small sample size as I said above. But, Smiter seems like more of a roadblock against aggro, its uncounterable against control, and if necessary it could come in against Sire of Insanity/Liliana.
As far as a VoR/Runechanter's Pike list, it may be a better home for him, but it probably needs to start with 4 Thought Scour's and 4 Midnight Haunting's (to pump the token).
I had VoR in the SB to begin with, as that's what Gerry and Costa's sideboards had, but I just don't see how it does anything except chump block against aggro. Maybe the first half trades if we're lucky, but I don't see the second half trading with anything.
Voice is for matches against the mirror or control. It doesn't help against aggro for reasons mentioned but against a deck that wants to play everything on the opponent's turn, it can become very scary or at least become a card they have to use resources on before it gets out of hand.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I make art!
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Between siding Garruk Primal Hunter for control or Voice, which would you rather have?
EDIT:
Personally, I would rather have Garruk Primal Hunter. Control matches often get grindy and I would rather have something that will probably end up generating more value.
Between siding Garruk Primal Hunter for control or Voice, which would you rather have?
EDIT:
Personally, I would rather have Garruk Primal Hunter. Control matches often get grindy and I would rather have something that will probably end up generating more value.
It really depends. The nice thing about Voice is it drops early, but can just get fried in the matchup vs Grixis or UWR. A Pillar of Flame kills it with no benefit for us, and I expect more decks to start packing 3-4 Pillars mainboard as Voice starts to be a force. So in those matches, Garruk is better if you can resolve one.
Versus the mirror or any Control not running Red, Voice is better, because there isn't a reliable way for those decks to get rid of it without it getting its 'second life'. And red-less control tend to run more counterspells, so tossing a turn 2 guy down is more likely to avoid counterspells on the play than trying to resolve a Garruk.
I like Garruk, and if you drop one you usually can win, but he is harder to resolve - in more grindy Control matches, they will usually have a lot more counters to stop him. I will be keeping Voice on my sideboard, because I think against Esper we have a pretty bad matchup and it remedies that more than Garruk does, but I don't think Garruk is a bad choice - it's going to be more of a meta call.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I make art!
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Can be used for that yes. Clone is also useful against Reanimator and midrange-type decks. Renounce the Guilds is also useful against Jund. (Huntmaster, Olivia, Varolz, Sire of Insanity, etc.)
EDIT:
Latest list. I re-added Supreme Verdict as I am currently unaware of what my local meta has. If it has aggro, I want Supreme Verdict to permanently deal with the threats instead of continuously bouncing them one at a time. I do know that one person is running RDW. (same deck that beat me pre-DGM in my FNM's finals when I was running Bant Control)
I have liked Thought Scour in testing as well, the one thing I'm really curious about is running a Gavony Township. It seems okay in theory, but can the manabase really support a colorless land? I have cut Ghost Quarter because of that for another dual.
I have liked Thought Scour in testing as well, the one thing I'm really curious about is running a Gavony Township. It seems okay in theory, but can the manabase really support a colorless land? I have cut Ghost Quarter because of that for another dual.
I am actually thinking of cutting it. Not for mana support issues, but rather not ever using it.
I am actually thinking of cutting it. Not for mana support issues, but rather not ever using it.
Fair enough. With so few creatures it is okay, but probably never awesome especially since you're often using the little guys to chump block early in games and the bigger guys don't need it.
Can somebody who has more experience with the deck give me a rundown on how they sideboard?
I'm interested in getting some input on what should be coming in and out in which matchups. Thanks!
Fair enough. With so few creatures it is okay, but probably never awesome especially since you're often using the little guys to chump block early in games and the bigger guys don't need it.
Can somebody who has more experience with the deck give me a rundown on how they sideboard?
I'm interested in getting some input on what should be coming in and out in which matchups. Thanks!
Might not be as experienced with Flash version, but I've gotten 2nd place in FNM with Bant Control, so here are my recommendations.
So far my choices (generalized, not specific mostly)
Aggro:
-All 4 counterspells
-0-1 Selesnya Charm
+3 Feeling of Dread
+1-2 Voice of Resurgence
Reanimator:
-2 Supreme Verdict
+2 Clone
If siding Garruk, side this in for Angels
(As it is looking, I won't be running into much of this if any so my sideboard isn't as well prepared for it. In exchange, I may be better prepared against other match-ups.)
I think if the deck, as built, wants a colorless land; it's ghost quarter.
On a different note, has anyone tested this preboard, or postboard, against any of the Burning-Tree Emissary decks?
Edited list above.
It's extremely difficult even with the best of draws. Aggro is Bant's worst matchup, since it doesn't use enough straight up removal to cope with the pressure of aggro.
Gonna start running this list. Renounce the Guilds seems really good against everything mentioned above as well as Falkenrath Aristocrat who is most likely accompanied by lingering souls tokens or mono colored zombies.
I think there was an article including a Bant Flash deck on Starcitygames.com, but I can't find it anymore. If anyone can, I'd appreciate it.
I believe that the article that you are looking for is titled "Dragon's Maze Part 3: The New Brews", from Chapin on 03May2013. In it, look for "Bant Delver". Hope that helps!
I believe that the article that you are looking for is titled "Dragon's Maze Part 3: The New Brews", from Chapin on 03May2013. In it, look for "Bant Delver". Hope that helps!
Yeah, it's in plenty of articles now that it made Top 12.
Looks at article you mentioned...
4 Delver of Secrets with a 1/3 chance of flipping...
8 Evolve creatures that will rarely evolve... could have used those slots for I/S. Would have had 29 then.
EDIT: says "ultimately abandoned because of its shaky mana"... lol
:symuw::symug::symwg::symuw::symug::symwg::symuw::symug::symwg::symuw::symug::symwg::symuw::symug::symwg::symuw::symug::symwg::symuw::symug::symwg:
Welcome to the Bant Flash Primer! Bant Flash is a mix between an Aggro/Midrange deck and Bant Control. Like RUG Flash, the deck has a balance of beaters and counterspells, so that we can basically play all of our threats whenever it's most convenient.
Why Bant instead of RUG?
Mainly because of this new card:
DGM gave us a 5/5 Trample token for 4 mana that is a spell. That is very powerful here, and allows us to dig with cards like Augur of Bolas to grab it, or use Snapcaster Mage to flash it back. Being a token has its downsides in a deck without Populate, but it still gives us a pretty big edge on most cards.
So...how do we win?
Our deck wins by damage. Usually after turn 4 we can effectively have some nice bodies on the field and can keep mana up to protect them. The nice thing about the deck is the flexibility it offers. Usually our hands consist of counterspells and creatures, and we can be reactive or proactive depending on the situation. Eventually, we can wear down their resources and board presence to the point where we can go in and smash for the win. Because of how much value our creatures possess, we can usually win fairly quickly with a protected threat out.
Favorites
Augur of Bolas - Yeah, no Flash. But he helps us dig and find spells, staves off Aggro decks, and is still a decent body. I run 4 for consistency - dropping him turn 2 is preferred, and any later can be harmful for being able to keep mana open. He also works great with Resto.
Restoration Angel - This card is fantastic, and does everything we want. It flies, it blinks another guy, and can usually stop attackers cold.
Snapcaster Mage - Pops in and lets us reuse a spell. Plays well with Resto Angel. Self-explanatory card, really.
Possibles
Yeva, Nature's Herald - A 4/4 for 4 is great and when played on curve can usually kill off an attacker. We don't get any value off her second ability, though, which makes her a bit more vanilla than we want.
Wolfir Avenger - RUG's baby, and an efficient beater. Regeneration is a great keyword as well. He isn't a staple though, mainly because of Putrefy being reprinted, which can blow him out. If that card doesn't see play, he may get bumped up to 'Favorites'.
Testing
Quirion Dryad - Currently testing her out, and she is way better than I thought she would be, mainly because every spell we play triggers her, save for Yeva/Wolfir. She can put a lot of pressure on an opponent, but is weak against bounce effects and is very vulnerable when dropped. Still working it out. Verdict: Though this card gets a running start when we drop it turn two and can easily increase in size to become a real win con, it ends up being a very bad top draw and doesn't give us as much inherent value by casting it as our others do. Not to be completely forgotten, but for now it's a little too hit or miss.
Delver of Secrets - I don't think he belongs here, but certain builds could throw him in, seeing as the deck doesn't do anything turn 1 anyway. However, there is already a primer on Bant Delver.
Voice of Resurgence - This card seems out of place, but works really well in our deck actually. It basically lets us drop it and not really have to worry about protecting it. It also gives us an upper hand against other Control builds. It's pretty tough to cast turn two though, and may not be a perfect fit here, though it's close.
Favorites
Advent of the Wurm - This card is the real deal. 5/5 Trample for 4 mana is deadly, and can easily close a game out. Untapping with the token on the field lets us protect it from bounce effects, which are a major weakness. I have been running 3, but will probably up to 4.
Azorius Charm - Protection against creatures, a simple cantrip, or a lifegain all in one card. This card is great at helping us gain incremental advantage against our foes.
Selesnya Charm - This card helps us close the gap in bashing their face in and is our only source of real removal. Sometimes, getting a 2/2 is pretty good as well, letting us make a trade with a creature.
Dissipate - Pretty much the top counterspell right now, thanks to Rites. The exile effect is very important, and though I don't like settling for a glorified Cancel, sometimes we have to.
Syncopate - Great in the early game, not as good late game. Syncopate usually lets us make X=1, which gives us a two mana counterspell that exiles. That alone is great, but don't get too dependent on it. I run 2, though 3 doesn't seem out of reach.
Sphinx's Revelation - Bant Control is our cousin, so we may as well do as they do. This card lets us get back in the game and refill our hands, though I only run 2. Because our deck isn't a solid Control shell, multiples of these in your hand won't usually make you too happy.
Unsummon - A great card that gives us a great Tempo boost for one mana. We can usually Unsummon their best dude and then have a clear entryway for our Wurm token. Not as good as Azorius Charm, but it is usually enough to give us small incremental advantages. Simic Charm accomplishes the same thing, but for one more mana, which can sometimes just be too expensive.
Thought Scour - A cantrip that throws cards into the graveyard. To novices, it seems like you would mill your opponent, but milling ourselves is the way to go 99% of the time, since we don't lose value because we run Snapcaster Mages. It's a very good card, and paying one mana to draw a card is never a bad thing.
Rewind - A good counterspell in our deck that allows us to counter a spell, untap, and play a threat. It's a four mana counterspell, so as a 1-2 of it's fine, but can really give us a significant advantage when it goes off. In my testing, works very well in our decklist.
Possibles
Essence Scatter, Negate - Two selective counterspells. Our deck doesn't deal well with noncreature permanents, but also can get beaten up by Blitz decks. A 1/1 split isn't bad, but when in doubt, lean on Essence Scatter. The format is more creature heavy right now, so it tends to come in handy a bit more often.
Forbidden Alchemy - Selective digging, letting us dump Snapcaster targets in the yard as well. Splashing a couple black sources for flashback isn't a bad play either. However, this card is very much a 'long-term' card, best utilized in Control shells.
Think Twice - Cantrips are always nice, but I've come to believe that maybe this card is a bit slow. We don't want to be wasting card slots with drawing engines, and Azorius Charm can help if we really need it.
Simic Charm - Our other charm. This card is great, but maybe more sideboard-esque. The bouncing and hexproof are a little more circumstantial than we want, though the buff is fantastic.
Testing
Plasm Capture - As a one-of, this card has been great. It basically lets us play stuff on our turn, and still keep mana open for Flash or counterspells. That being said, it's still a 4-mana counterspell with a cost that can be tough to hit. It also is really tough to Snapcaster it. For now, I like it as a one slot for testing purposes. Verdict: After testing this one pretty extensively, I have to say that Rewind is pretty much better for a build that runs all Instants/Flash. Plasm can give some cool effects, like a huge Sphinx Rev or something, but Rewind gives us a quicker advantage. However, in decks that run boardwipes or Detention Sphere, this card can give you a great advantage on your turn, letting you play 'sorcery-speed' cards essentially for free.
Render Silent - A strange card, but works very well with Quirion Dryad. The nice thing about this card is it shuts down opponents who try and 'bait' our counterspells with less-impactful plays before a killer one. This makes them essentially waste their turn - though that ability alone isn't good enough to put this in.
Midnight Haunting - A forgotten gem! Midnight Haunting may be less than impressive next to Lingering Souls, but the Instant speed is relevant. Still, it doesn't really give us the bodies we want, since most of our guys are more impressive. In a more aggressive build it could work, or a build running Runechanter's Pike.
I don't play any Enchantments or Planeswalkers in my build, since I feel like that's against what the deck wants to do. However, there are two land slots that work very well in the deck:
Gavony Township - Slow, but curves out perfectly if we go Resto/Yeva/Wurm into it. It makes our field very dangerous and lets us hold back our creatures/spells so we don't overextend.
Moorland Haunt - Quick, and lets us trade pretty aggressively if we have to in exchange for an evasive (if weak) buyback. This card becomes weaker the less creatures you run, obviously.
Also, a brief discussion on Runechanter's Pike. The card is very good in our deck, because we win a significant amount of Instant/Sorceries. After testing, I didn't like it in my build, though plenty others have found success with it. It's going to depend on your meta, really. The nice thing about this card is it can basically win us the game if left unchecked, even if just slapped on a weenie.
There are a million cards you can run on the sideboard, most of them meta-dependent. Here are some key ones you definitely want to keep in mind.
Purify the Grave - Ground Seal hurts our Snapcasters, can be killed by Abrupt Decay, and doesn't hit off Augur. We can settle for this. Side in versus Reanimator and some Control matches.
Ground Seal, Rest in Peace - Both of these accomplish similar means. I don't like running them because most Reanimator decks run Abrupt Decay, which can end up making these useless. we also basically will have to side out Snapcasters to bring them in, which really hurts our spell's value. Not to mention makes Thought Scour way worse. Side in versus Reanimator and some Control matches.
Memory's Journey - This card has some pretty good uses against Reanimator. It doesn't exile their cards, but shuffling them in is sometimes just as good, and it has a cheap flashback cost. We can also use it on ourselves if graveyard hate gets used on us. Overall, I don't know how good it really is, because Reanimator does have so many digging spells so they can usually find the cards again, though it does slow them down considerably. Side versus Reanimator and decks that may play graveyard hate against us (Jund?).
Clone - This card can't Flash, but gives us a lot of value vs. Reanimator, since copying their Angel of Serenity is a sweet play. It also can help us vs Geist of Saint Traft, but if they accelaerate with a mana dork turn one, this card can just be too slow sometimes. Side in versus Reanimator and Bant Auras.
Essence Scatter - Side in versus Aggro.
Negate - Side in versus Control, Reanimator, or Bant Auras.
Dispel - A good card versus the mirror or Control matchups that use Azorius Charm and similar cards to damage our field. Side in versus Control or RDW.
Feeling of Dread - When Azorius Charm isn't enough, this is a fallback. It may not seem impressive, but we basically just need to use it until we can drop a Wurm or another creature that is usually tougher than what Aggro can toss at us. Side in versus Aggro.
Simic Charm - Side in versus Control and some Midrange matches.
Renounce the Guilds - Hits Geist of Saint Traft, Falkenrath Aristocrat, Olivia Voldaren, and Blood Baron of Vizkopa, along with Detention Sphere and some troublesome Walkers. These are cards we don't have many answers for otherwise. Side in versus decks that run those cards.
Ray of Revelation - One of the matchup weaknesses is bant enchantments, due to all the Hexproof. So we need to go for their buffs instead with this. Also helps against D-Sphere/O-Ring, and Rancor to an extent. Side in versus Bant Auras.
Okay, now that's out of the way. Deck list time!
This is what I have been running, and it has been performing very consistently. Like I said earlier, Quarion Dryad is still being tested, but it seems like a very good card and has impressed me a lot.
3x Augur of Bolas
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Restoration Angel
Spells
4x Azorius Charm
4x Advent of the Wurm
3x Selesnya Charm
3x Farseek
1x Dissipate
2x Syncopate
2x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Rewind
2x Simic Charm
1x Unsummon
2x Supreme Verdict
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Temple Garden
4x Sunpetal Grove
3x Breeding Pool
3x Hinterland Harbor
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Island
2x Feeling of Dread
1x Negate
2x Ray of Revelation
1x Simic Charm
2x Renounce the Guilds
1x Stolen Identity
4x Voice of Resurgence
2x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Updated 05/21/13
And here is a deck list that recently nabbed 12th place at New Jersey:
2 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Breeding Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Temple Garden
4 Azorius Charm
1 Dissipate
2 Rewind
2 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Syncopate
2 Think Twice
3 Thought Scour
3 Unsummon
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Clone
1 Silklash Spider
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Dispel
1 Dissipate
1 Psychic Spiral
2 Renounce the Guilds
1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
1 Supreme Verdict
And here is a recent deck Gerry Thompson tested in a Brad Vs Gerry video on Star City (video is here if you're Premium).
3 Augur of Bolas
2 Restoration Angel
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instants
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Azorius Charm
1 Plasm Capture
1 Rewind
2 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Syncopate
2 Think Twice
4 Thought Scour
2 Unsummon
2 Supreme Verdict
Basic Lands
1 Forest
1 Island
Lands
4 Breeding Pool
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Temple Garden
3 Clone
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Negate
2 Renounce the Guilds
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
1 Supreme Verdict
Todd Anderson also wrote an article about this decklist here, hitting some key points about the deck. Definitely worth a read (again, Premium member content). He doesn't like Plasm capture, and feels that the list runs too many four drops without acceleration, thinking that maybe a Farseek build could help. But then we are basically just running Bant Control with Advent of the Wurm, which we don't want to do.
Another recent article by Matt Costa (his decklist above) can be found on SCG Premium here. It's a great talk about how he felt playing the deck and where he thinks it should go. He recommends mainboarding Voice of Resurgence and possibly Runechanter's Pike, which is something I don't entirely agree with, and is something that will be discussed plenty at this thread, I'm sure. It's still a great read, obviously, and really hits some good points on how it works against the new meta.
AGGRO (RDW, NAYA BLITZ, ETC)
A pretty tough matchup for us is Aggro/Blitz decks. These decks have explosive starts, and we really aren't prepared to deal with early game beatdowns. However, Augur of Bolas usually can stave off a lot of the early threats, and if you can make it to a Supreme Verdict, you can usually turn the tide. Azorius Charms are a resource that helps us buy time against these decks, and must be used efficiently. Because of our weakness here, it is important to have Supreme Verdict as an option. Once we get the board to a less populated state, we can drop our Wurms and race from there.
MIDRANGE (JUND, ETC)
Against midrange, we have a good shot at winning game one. This is because a lot of midrange decks have a variety of creatures, making their Cavern of Souls less intimidating and their threats easier to counter. Usually, we spend the early game (much as they do) setting up for the mid game, where we just counter their threats and drop our own to win. Make use of bounce effects if you can't counter to make sure that we stop blockers. Thragtusk and Sire of Insanity are big threats to us. For both these threats, we have Selesnya Charm, which works wonders.
REANIMATOR
The Reanimator matchup can be rough, mainly because they have started adding Sin Collector to their ranks. Off a Cavern, this card can be very tough for us, and sets us way back. However, we have a lot of outs to Angel of Serenity, and using Selesnya Charm on their heavy hitters helps us make sure they won't come back. Our Wurms are also incredibly susceptible to Fiend Hunter, Angel, and Abrupt Decay. With some careful playing and a little bit of luck, game one should be okay, but it's a 50/50 shot.
CONTROL (ESPER, GRIXIS, ETC)
Against control, it becomes a pretty rough war of attrition at the beginning. You pretty much play chicken until someone tries to play something, then the counter wars begin. Our deck is light on counterspells, so usually we lose this battle, but sticking a Wurm or Resto Angel usually lets us beat them down and win. Esper fights in more unconventional methods, and is more difficult to overcome. Because of their reliance on a utility land and a Planeswalker to win (two cards we have no way to interact with), we usually fold to their extreme lineup of kill spells and bounce to protect their win-cons. It'll be a tough slog against Control, but if we can land a creature, we can usually ride it to victory.
THE MIRROR/OTHER FLASH DECKS
Similar to Control, this matchup devolves into 'who will play a card first?' so the other can counter it. Gutsy plays can either get you a win or get blown out, so play your cards carefully. If they tap out, take advantage of it and play something. The game will be won slowly and carefully, by getting in points of damage whenever possible.
More will be added to this post as we discuss the deck's build.
This thread is the official thread to discuss all Bant Flash decks.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
2 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Breeding Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Temple Garden
4 Azorius Charm
1 Dissipate
2 Rewind
2 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Syncopate
2 Think Twice
3 Thought Scour
3 Unsummon
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Clone
1 Silklash Spider
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Dispel
1 Dissipate
1 Psychic Spiral
2 Renounce the Guilds
1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
1 Supreme Verdict
I think I really like the Rewinds, countering a spell and then still having mana open for Advent of Wurm seems good.
Unsummon seems better then going overboard on counters, if we can disrupt there early game enough they will have huge amounts of trouble beating a 5/5 Wurm.
Yeah, I forgot to address Unsummon - I think it's not bad here, because we basically gain a great Tempo advantage for minimal mana investment. Rewind is very good too. I'm currently trying out Plasm Capture, but it could be that the deck just wants Rewind so we can counter, untap, and play a threat, rather than waiting until our next turn. However, Plasm Capture does allow for some powerful Sphinx's Revelations, which is a nice upside, though not a reliable one.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I think I prefer Plasm Capture in the versions of Bant that play Farseek. While it wont be all the time, it will still occasionally be a dead card if you draw the wrong lands.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
My build also runs no Thought Scours, but rather 4x Selesnya Charm to deal with Sire of Insanity as soon as possible. I've said this before, but Sire of Insanity is the absolute last thing a Flash deck wants to see hit and stick.
My build. Any thoughts?
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Restoration Angel
3 Wolfir Avenger
2 Augur of Bolas
Instant (21)
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Azorius Charm
4 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Think Twice
2 Dissipate
2 Syncopate
2 Supreme Verdict
Land (25)
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple Garden
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Sunpetal Grove
1 Gavony Township
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Renounce the Guilds
2 Rapid Hybridization
2 Clone
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Negate
2 Feeling of Dread
2 Unsummon
Also, what are your thoughts on Rapid Hybridization? The 3/3 token is not as bad with Unsummon/Azorius Charm, might consider maining 2 Unsummons.
EDIT:
Trying mainboard Unsummon with no Supreme Verdict:
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Restoration Angel
3 Wolfir Avenger
2 Augur of Bolas
Instant (23)
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Azorius Charm
4 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Think Twice
2 Dissipate
2 Syncopate
2 Unsummon
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple Garden
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Sunpetal Grove
1 Gavony Township
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Renounce the Guilds
2 Rapid Hybridization
2 Clone
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Negate
2 Feeling of Dread
2 Unsummon
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
I agree that Plasm Capture isn't exactly supplementing what the deck wants to do, but it can still be very powerful. Having both it and a Verdict in hand is not a high possibility, but depending on someone's build having a Plasm Capture with a Detention Sphere/Verdict/Revelation gives you a higher chance of taking advantage of it. In my description earlier, Capture still let's us play stuff without really dedicating mana to it, which is advantageous. However, I do think Rewind is a much better counter spell for what the deck wants to accomplish.
I think Rapid Hybridization is a good card in our deck, since it gives us a real course of removal. However, dedicating two cards to work is not all that great. The token still loses to our Resto Angels and our Wurm tokens though, so it's not like we are exclusively reliant on Unsummon effects to stop the token. I think it's a good idea to toss in one or two in our 75, because of the extra mileage it can get us against targets Selesnya Charm can't hit, like Huntmaster and the new Blood Baron if it sees play. It's worth testing, at least.
This decklist feels pretty consistent and clean. 3 Sphinx may be a little much, but Its not like its a bad card or anything. I think actually having 4 Snapcaster is important. I run 3 right now, and he feels like one of the strongest points of the deck, since we run so many spells are part of our main strategy. I also like this more than Supreme Verdict builds because usually there are really only one or two creatures on the field giving us grief and Unsummoning them is usually preferable strategy.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
4 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Temple Garden
Creatures
3 Augur of Bolas
2 Restoration Angel
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Azorius Charm
2 Rewind
2 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Syncopate
2 Think Twice
3 Thought Scour
3 Unsummon
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Clone
2 Renounce the Guilds
2 Negate
2 Rest in Peace
1 Silklash Spider
3 Loxodon Smiter
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Didn't have the chance to get to any sideboard games but in preboard games I was 4-0.
I think the deck wants to run a 3/3 split of Augur and SnapMage, since finding Advent of the Wurm is usually more important than flashing it back. The only card I didn't find/cast in the 4 games was Ghost Quarter, so I don't know how helpful it is, but it didn't hurt the mana (although 4 games is a small sample size).
Plasm capture seems ok, but not until you are countering 5 or 6 drops, any other time rewind and syncopate are probably better, and if you don't have Sphinx revelation and 6+ mana (to leave open another counter) the following turn I don't think the extra mana does any good.
The deck might be fine without Verdict, but at least in this early meta I won't be leaving home without it. For those of you that do, good luck. I should be playing this list in a 4-5 round tournament tomorrow night so I'll have a chance to get some more varied playing in.
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Restoration Angel
3 Augur of Bolas
Artifacts (2)
2 Runechanter's Pike
Instants (20)
3 Advent of the Wurm
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Azorius Charm
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Dissipate
2 Syncopate
3 Unsummon
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple Garden
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Sunpetal Grove
2 Moorland Haunt
2 Renounce the Guilds
2 Rapid Hybridization
2 Clone
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Negate
3 Feeling of Dread
1 Unsummon
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Pike feels like it belongs in the deck, giving us some pretty aggressive options with minimal effort. Putting it on either one of our tokens is really nasty, and helps us not over extend, and still win races.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
2 of the games I won against naya today my testing partner led with turn 2 VoR on the play, and it really wasn't that big of a deal against me, a deck designed to operate on my opponents turn, so I can't see how it would be that effective against other control decks.
Granted, small sample size as I said above. But, Smiter seems like more of a roadblock against aggro, its uncounterable against control, and if necessary it could come in against Sire of Insanity/Liliana.
As far as a VoR/Runechanter's Pike list, it may be a better home for him, but it probably needs to start with 4 Thought Scour's and 4 Midnight Haunting's (to pump the token).
Voice is for matches against the mirror or control. It doesn't help against aggro for reasons mentioned but against a deck that wants to play everything on the opponent's turn, it can become very scary or at least become a card they have to use resources on before it gets out of hand.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
EDIT:
Personally, I would rather have Garruk Primal Hunter. Control matches often get grindy and I would rather have something that will probably end up generating more value.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
It really depends. The nice thing about Voice is it drops early, but can just get fried in the matchup vs Grixis or UWR. A Pillar of Flame kills it with no benefit for us, and I expect more decks to start packing 3-4 Pillars mainboard as Voice starts to be a force. So in those matches, Garruk is better if you can resolve one.
Versus the mirror or any Control not running Red, Voice is better, because there isn't a reliable way for those decks to get rid of it without it getting its 'second life'. And red-less control tend to run more counterspells, so tossing a turn 2 guy down is more likely to avoid counterspells on the play than trying to resolve a Garruk.
I like Garruk, and if you drop one you usually can win, but he is harder to resolve - in more grindy Control matches, they will usually have a lot more counters to stop him. I will be keeping Voice on my sideboard, because I think against Esper we have a pretty bad matchup and it remedies that more than Garruk does, but I don't think Garruk is a bad choice - it's going to be more of a meta call.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
EDIT:
Latest list. I re-added Supreme Verdict as I am currently unaware of what my local meta has. If it has aggro, I want Supreme Verdict to permanently deal with the threats instead of continuously bouncing them one at a time. I do know that one person is running RDW. (same deck that beat me pre-DGM in my FNM's finals when I was running Bant Control)
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Augur of Bolas
2 Restoration Angel
Instants (24)
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Azorius Charm
3 Unsummon
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Think Twice
2 Rewind
1 Dissipate
1 Syncopate
2 Supreme Verdict
Lands (25)
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Temple Garden
3 Sunpetal Grove
1 Ghost Quarter / Island
1 Island
1 Plains
3 Feeling of Dread
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Negate
2 Renounce the Guilds
2 Clone
1 Rapid Hybridization
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
I am actually thinking of cutting it. Not for mana support issues, but rather not ever using it.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Fair enough. With so few creatures it is okay, but probably never awesome especially since you're often using the little guys to chump block early in games and the bigger guys don't need it.
Can somebody who has more experience with the deck give me a rundown on how they sideboard?
I'm interested in getting some input on what should be coming in and out in which matchups. Thanks!
On a different note, has anyone tested this preboard, or postboard, against any of the Burning-Tree Emissary decks?
Might not be as experienced with Flash version, but I've gotten 2nd place in FNM with Bant Control, so here are my recommendations.
So far my choices (generalized, not specific mostly)
Control:
-2 Supreme Verdict
-3 Unsummon
-2 Azorius Charm
+2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
+3 Voice of Resurgence
+2 Negate
Mirror:
-2 Supreme Verdict
-2 Restoration Angel
-1 Augur of Bolas
-1 Azorius Charm
-1 Unsummon
+2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
+3 Voice of Resurgence
+2 Negate
Jund:
-2 Supreme Verdict
-3 Unsummon
+2 Clone
+2 Renounce the Guilds
+1 Rapid Hybridization
Possibly:
-2 Restoration Angel
+2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Hexproof/Auras:
-3 Unsummon
-1 Azorius Charm
+2 Clone
+2 Renounce the Guilds
Aggro:
-All 4 counterspells
-0-1 Selesnya Charm
+3 Feeling of Dread
+1-2 Voice of Resurgence
Reanimator:
-2 Supreme Verdict
+2 Clone
If siding Garruk, side this in for Angels
(As it is looking, I won't be running into much of this if any so my sideboard isn't as well prepared for it. In exchange, I may be better prepared against other match-ups.)
Edited list above.
It's extremely difficult even with the best of draws. Aggro is Bant's worst matchup, since it doesn't use enough straight up removal to cope with the pressure of aggro.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
I believe that the article that you are looking for is titled "Dragon's Maze Part 3: The New Brews", from Chapin on 03May2013. In it, look for "Bant Delver". Hope that helps!
EDH:▼
(links to 3D generals)
Playing: Designing:
Retired:
Yeah, it's in plenty of articles now that it made Top 12.
Looks at article you mentioned...
4 Delver of Secrets with a 1/3 chance of flipping...
8 Evolve creatures that will rarely evolve... could have used those slots for I/S. Would have had 29 then.
EDIT: says "ultimately abandoned because of its shaky mana"... lol
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW