So it's been well publized that wizards has discountinued 4 mana sweepers and 1 mana mana dorks because they think they're too good for standard. However, I've also been hearing rumors that they think Essense Scatter, and, I ***** you not, Divination are too good too, hence them not being included in recent sets. Is that true? What else have they axed?
According to Wizards, decent 2-mana counterspells, 2 mana mostly unconditional removal, 1 mana mana-dorks, and 4 mana wraths are all too good. I think the 2 mana counterspell hateing now includes Essence Scatter (which is incredibly dumb, especially given that Nullify saw almost no play). Divination seems fine though since they are fine with printing Read the Bones, despite that being better than Divination most of the time.
2-mana unconditional counters are too good. Counterspell is obviously long-gone, and we wont even see Mana Leak for a while, either. But Silumgar's Scorn and the newly spoiled Horribly Awry will make their way in.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
Nobody from Wizards actually thinks Divination is too good for standard. That rumor seems to have started from hysterics regarding people talking about Painful Truth. It sees no play, and Read the Bones, which is better, was just reprinted.
Essence Scatter probably isn't considered too good for standard either. It barely saw play when it was actually in Standard. People just saw the new counterspell, Horribly Awry, and started claiming that. Nobody from Wizards, to my knowledge, has said anything on the matter. Horribly Awry is a version of Essence Scatter that is weakened to gain the ability to exile and therefore synergize with the Eldrazi Processor cards, not some reflection on Wizard's design paradigms. We just got Silumgar's Scorn, people.
4-mana sleepers and one-cost mana dorks are out, yeah. I think they've decided that, since creatures have gotten stronger, being able to play some 3-drops on turn 2 is too backbreaking nowadays. Anyone who has watched RG devotion go turn 1 Mystic turn 2 Goblin Rabblemaster turn 3 Thunderbreak Regent or some other 4 drop on the play can see why they might view this as problematic. Wizards doesn't want to have to start an arms race where they have to make removal powerful enough to keep up with those kinds of draws, and drastically lowering the power level so that these kinds of starts don't happen is also not a very palatable option. So I imagine they wanted to cut down the number of super-swingy non-games that decks with Elvish Mystic/Llanowar Elves can cause these days.
Lightning Bolt is out because it severely warps standard and makes creatures that are 3 toughness or less basically unplayable, causing Wizards to need to give creatures ridiculous amounts of power creep in order for them to be playable or give them very strong ETB effects.
Unconditional spells are too good for standard unless they cost 6+ mana.
It has to have restrictions on power/toughness/CMC if it wants to counter/remove something.
Also anything that isn't a planeswalker looks like it isn't allowed to have much raw power. The Dragonlords were a bit of an exception to this rule. I guess Ulamog is about the same so it seems like they will only give raw power to iconic story characters now. I guess this ties in with their overall strategy of pushing the story towards a book/movie franchise.
Tarmogoyf is too god for Standard. Deathrite Shaman didn't make any waves. Doom Blade and Path to Exile are too good for standard. Reality Shift is just fine, though.
1-mana dorks are too good for Standard. Treasure Cruise is fine, though.
Anything expensive that really needs a reprint is likely too good. They think that reprinting Thoughtseize was pushing things further than they wanted.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
I think it's all relative. I have a feeling that when they say "standard" they mean the upcoming standard formats and that we might get some more powerful standard formats eventually.
******* everything is too good for standard. Fugitive Wizard is too good for standard, a one mana 1/1? NUH-UH says WOTC.
On more serious note, wizards probably wants to depower standard right now due to all the power in Tarkir block.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
******* everything is too good for standard. Fugitive Wizard is too good for standard, a one mana 1/1? NUH-UH says WOTC.
On more serious note, wizards probably wants to depower standard right now due to all the power in Tarkir block.
power? compared to past seasons, Tarkir isn't exactly a bullet train
Actually, it is pretty strong and has released a bevvy of cards into the eternal formats and even gotten stuff banned in modern and legacy. What recent sets overpower it?
******* everything is too good for standard. Fugitive Wizard is too good for standard, a one mana 1/1? NUH-UH says WOTC.
On more serious note, wizards probably wants to depower standard right now due to all the power in Tarkir block.
power? compared to past seasons, Tarkir isn't exactly a bullet train
Actually, it is pretty strong and has released a bevvy of cards into the eternal formats and even gotten stuff banned in modern and legacy. What recent sets overpower it?
For standard, probably inistrad. The problem is some of the power in modern/legacy was too weak in standard due to lack of 1 mana fuel spells.
If a certain kind of card always sees play and there's no room for stronger cards, that's what Wizards is pulling away from. They want more interesting deck building challenges and the possibility to print a variety of usable cards instead of everyone jumping on the automatic 4x that were Wrath of God, Elvish Mystic, Counterspell, Thoughtseize. Notice that removing the best card allows a broader space for interesting sweepers, counters and rampers to get play. And, weakened staples allow stronger nonstaples to be made without warping a metagame. I'll miss my elf but we will get stronger 3 drops and 5 drops to compensate.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
No Searing Spear variant. No 4cmc wrath. No 1cmc mana dork. No 1cmc aggro creatures on white, black or red. No 2cmc broad removal, not even 3cmc broad removal and now Cancel is a rare.
And conveniently, most of the removal we do have tries it's hardest to respect Siege Rhino.
This isn't inviting people to perform more interesting deck building, this is telling people: Play Abzan or get lost.
That said, the lack of Lightning Bolt-- er, Lightning Strike, is a bit over the top, imo. That almost seems like they overlooked it, although obviously that isn't what happened.
Rhino is stupid, it'll continue to warp the format, at least with Stormbreath you hand a chance.
Hopefully there's a deck that beats Abzan down to the point that it's merely a meta choice at best. If not, many and I mean many players will decide to go out and live more than sit down and get stomped by Abzan for another year. If it comes down to that some time away from sitting on my ass will be great
To the OP:
WOTC has deemed certain "classic" effects to powerful. T1 man dork into T2 thing is too powerful. Give me Wrath of God and Counterspell and I'l show you how to keep that in check. However, sweepers only get the job done at 5, and counters are pathetic in general. New standard is going to be a green mages heaven and blue mages exit from the game for a bit.
Oh and red getting the nerf stick was expected, apparently a 2cmc bolt is still too good. WTF wizards.
Rhino is stupid, it'll continue to warp the format, at least with Stormbreath you hand a chance.
Hopefully there's a deck that beats Abzan down to the point that it's merely a meta choice at best. If not, many and I mean many players will decide to go out and live more than sit down and get stomped by Abzan for another year. If it comes down to that some time away from sitting on my ass will be great
To the OP:
WOTC has deemed certain "classic" effects to powerful. T1 man dork into T2 thing is too powerful. Give me Wrath of God and Counterspell and I'l show you how to keep that in check. However, sweepers only get the job done at 5, and counters are pathetic in general. New standard is going to be a green mages heaven and blue mages exit from the game for a bit.
Oh and red getting the nerf stick was expected, apparently a 2cmc bolt is still too good. WTF wizards.
I think wotc is doing the right thing and constantly shifting what people should expect. Constantly reprinting, or creating the same card effects just generates stagnation.
The larger emphasis on power level being relative to your opponents deck keeps the metagame flowing.
Complaining about a powerful deck with few synergies (Abzan), and then immediately asking for "classic" powerful effects is contradictory. Having the dorks, bolts, wraths, and counterspells just makes everyone play them.
Oh and I predict Abzan to be alright but not oppressive post rotation. Seige Rhino doesn't make up for the loss of power at all points of the curve.
I think players just feel cheated when they have played with powerful effects in the past, or had positive experiences with past standard archetype/deck and wish to do it again. However Standard isn't about that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Its funny...Its like during rotation everyone just wants them to reprint whatever they had in their current deck that rotated out. I am pretty sure the absence of lighting bolt/ searing spear is just to shake the format up a little so people approach things differently (also take a notice on creature toughness, it has dropped a little. 3 toughness is now the new 4 toughness) . PLUS draconic roar does exist so if you want your 3 mana burn spell play some dragons.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So it's been well publized that wizards has discountinued 4 mana sweepers and 1 mana mana dorks because they think they're too good for standard. However, I've also been hearing rumors that they think Essense Scatter, and, I ***** you not, Divination are too good too, hence them not being included in recent sets. Is that true? What else have they axed?
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
Essence Scatter probably isn't considered too good for standard either. It barely saw play when it was actually in Standard. People just saw the new counterspell, Horribly Awry, and started claiming that. Nobody from Wizards, to my knowledge, has said anything on the matter. Horribly Awry is a version of Essence Scatter that is weakened to gain the ability to exile and therefore synergize with the Eldrazi Processor cards, not some reflection on Wizard's design paradigms. We just got Silumgar's Scorn, people.
4-mana sleepers and one-cost mana dorks are out, yeah. I think they've decided that, since creatures have gotten stronger, being able to play some 3-drops on turn 2 is too backbreaking nowadays. Anyone who has watched RG devotion go turn 1 Mystic turn 2 Goblin Rabblemaster turn 3 Thunderbreak Regent or some other 4 drop on the play can see why they might view this as problematic. Wizards doesn't want to have to start an arms race where they have to make removal powerful enough to keep up with those kinds of draws, and drastically lowering the power level so that these kinds of starts don't happen is also not a very palatable option. So I imagine they wanted to cut down the number of super-swingy non-games that decks with Elvish Mystic/Llanowar Elves can cause these days.
Lightning Bolt is out because it severely warps standard and makes creatures that are 3 toughness or less basically unplayable, causing Wizards to need to give creatures ridiculous amounts of power creep in order for them to be playable or give them very strong ETB effects.
It has to have restrictions on power/toughness/CMC if it wants to counter/remove something.
Also anything that isn't a planeswalker looks like it isn't allowed to have much raw power. The Dragonlords were a bit of an exception to this rule. I guess Ulamog is about the same so it seems like they will only give raw power to iconic story characters now. I guess this ties in with their overall strategy of pushing the story towards a book/movie franchise.
Doom Blade and Path to Exile are too good for standard. Reality Shift is just fine, though.
1-mana dorks are too good for Standard. Treasure Cruise is fine, though.
Anything expensive that really needs a reprint is likely too good. They think that reprinting Thoughtseize was pushing things further than they wanted.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
Or is a blue or black creature
On more serious note, wizards probably wants to depower standard right now due to all the power in Tarkir block.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
power? compared to past seasons, Tarkir isn't exactly a bullet train
Actually, it is pretty strong and has released a bevvy of cards into the eternal formats and even gotten stuff banned in modern and legacy. What recent sets overpower it?
For standard, probably inistrad. The problem is some of the power in modern/legacy was too weak in standard due to lack of 1 mana fuel spells.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
And conveniently, most of the removal we do have tries it's hardest to respect Siege Rhino.
This isn't inviting people to perform more interesting deck building, this is telling people: Play Abzan or get lost.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
Hopefully there's a deck that beats Abzan down to the point that it's merely a meta choice at best. If not, many and I mean many players will decide to go out and live more than sit down and get stomped by Abzan for another year. If it comes down to that some time away from sitting on my ass will be great
To the OP:
WOTC has deemed certain "classic" effects to powerful. T1 man dork into T2 thing is too powerful. Give me Wrath of God and Counterspell and I'l show you how to keep that in check. However, sweepers only get the job done at 5, and counters are pathetic in general. New standard is going to be a green mages heaven and blue mages exit from the game for a bit.
Oh and red getting the nerf stick was expected, apparently a 2cmc bolt is still too good. WTF wizards.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I think wotc is doing the right thing and constantly shifting what people should expect. Constantly reprinting, or creating the same card effects just generates stagnation.
The larger emphasis on power level being relative to your opponents deck keeps the metagame flowing.
Complaining about a powerful deck with few synergies (Abzan), and then immediately asking for "classic" powerful effects is contradictory. Having the dorks, bolts, wraths, and counterspells just makes everyone play them.
Oh and I predict Abzan to be alright but not oppressive post rotation. Seige Rhino doesn't make up for the loss of power at all points of the curve.
I think players just feel cheated when they have played with powerful effects in the past, or had positive experiences with past standard archetype/deck and wish to do it again. However Standard isn't about that.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Volcanic Hammer and Llanowar Elves.
7th Edition is powerful compared to BFZ.