here is my version.. i like Tendrils of Corruption main becouse of there are so many aggro decks these days, it turns the tide (atleast in this enviroment)
(edit-ed :P)
you should be able to easily fit 3x scrying sheets in there. i've found that extremely clutch mid-game for weeding out extra swamps (and of course insuring mid-game land drops...which as you probably know, extremely important).
are the players using tendrils finding storm affects to be worth it? doesn't seem probable...have to have at least 5 mana for just one storm affect (so thoughtsize/extripate + tendrils). profane & consume spirit seem stronger off the top. (only problem i've found runnign consumes is that it's black mana and w/ scrying sheets/mouth that can cut down the actual amount of damage possible...which is why i'm leaning more and more lately toward profane since it's just colorless for X rather than B for consume). </rant>
you should be able to easily fit 3x scrying sheets in there. i've found that extremely clutch mid-game for weeding out extra swamps (and of course insuring mid-game land drops...which as you probably know, extremely important).
are the players using tendrils finding storm affects to be worth it? doesn't seem probable...have to have at least 5 mana for just one storm affect (so thoughtsize/extripate + tendrils). profane & consume spirit seem stronger off the top. (only problem i've found runnign consumes is that it's black mana and w/ scrying sheets/mouth that can cut down the actual amount of damage possible...which is why i'm leaning more and more lately toward profane since it's just colorless for X rather than B for consume). </rant>
Definitely. I played several games where I wished I had the snow engine, because I was constantly drawing dead. Even if you just have Snow lands it is definitely worth it. Against decks like U/G and Teachings, you can't give them those extra 2-3 turns before you drop a threat, because you will not win.
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I love this deck. I have loved Korlash-Control since FUT prereleased and I started fooling around with Korlash. The latest upgrades to the deck being Profane Command and Thoughtsieze which I have MD to remove threats that Shriekmaw can't take care of. The only thing I don't like about the current lists are the Mindstones because I have yet to play a competative game that I would need a turn 3 Damnation or even worse a 3/3 turn 3 Korlash, I would rather wait to cast a Tendrils until 4+ swamps as well. I am also not using Hippies as they die and once dead they are ummm dead for good so I dropped them and since Nameless Inversion is a great card I use the Haakon/Inversion engine which is a game winner everytime it comes online and if you need a good discard outlet there's Undertaker or Small Pox although if you run Small Pox you may want to try Dakmor Salvage which the dredge ability has thrown Inversions and Haakons into the bin quite a few times.... just a few things to think about. My decklist is very similar to Dawiz007's save for 1 less Muse, Haakon instead Hippies, Thoughtseize instead of Mindstone, 3 Dakmor Salvage, 2 Scrying Sheets, no Beacon, and 4 Tendrils.
Well, it does force them to play their threats wisely, but I've often draw it dead or found that my opponent plays around the 3-X damage restriction by holding lands in their hand. Personally, they're SB tech at best; the MB slots could do better.
Cut the Totems, IMO. They're susceptible to having your board raped. One opening with Incinerate, Tarfire, or any damage form will cost you heavily.
I agree with the Snow engine argument and intend to acquire as many Snow-Covered Swamps for the deck (>_< Dammit Coldsnap). Could use a storage land (Dreadship Reef, and the good ol' ToY.
MBC (this deck) is about controlling threats (mainly aggro) and then laying down a hard to remove threat like Korlash the insane regenerater and Haakon the undead that is played from the grave. Also the Muses provide massive CA for you to pull the Damnations/Shriekmaw/Terror/Tendrils/Korlash's and other control tools. The Rack is not actually a control card it is a build around me card where the deck HAS to revolve around them not having a hand EVER. This deck is about board control FTW.
the thing is there are two builds for a MBC, one against aggro and the other against control... its baisicly discard or removal (depending on the enviroment you need to build the main) ofcourse , the diference betwean The Rack and this deck covers more range in the game...
One card that I think needs explanation is Soul Spike: This card gets you out of pickles lock. That's what it is for. Some feedback on my list would be wonderful.
One card that I think needs explanation is Soul Spike: This card gets you out of pickles lock. That's what it is for. Some feedback on my list would be wonderful.
I think Mind Stone will be better then Coldsteel Heart for that extra card draw when needed ...
One card that I think needs explanation is Soul Spike: This card gets you out of pickles lock. That's what it is for. Some feedback on my list would be wonderful.
Your list is pretty solid only 3 things I would like to point out. Soul Spike was the best answer for pickles lock but now there is Slaughter Pact they both do the samething but Pact is better unless they are using the Faerie land-lock that I have seen on the forums I can post the combo for all to see later if anyone needs to know what to look-out for. Soul Spike vs. Slaughter Pact is really a personal choice though. Second I think the Abominations are not the best choice in a creature, where Dread is a better control card and can make the enemy think about what they are going to do. If Dread is still not your flavor there are better control cards like Sudden Spoiling that shuts up everything from Akroma, Angel of Wrath to Tarmogoyf and makes Tefari and Pickle decks cry. And finally you need 4 Korlash because seriously a fourth Korlash is better than 4 Damnations because seriously how many times do you really need to sweep the board if your running the Haakon-Inversion engine? Otherwise a Top-notch list.
My metagame is awash in Kithkin and Elves, with a few people occassionally playing Turbofog, Martyr, and Blink (URW version I think). I'm waiting for someone to play TarmoRack, and I think people are gathering the cards to play it. There might be one teachings deck floating around.
My FNMs are about 40 people strong, so its not overly huge, but big enough.
I think this deck will give me the needed oomph to get around those elves and kithkin, using Damnation as the heavy hitter and the targeted removal to keep the board clear for Korlash to do his thing.
I use Phyrexian Ironfoot to hold the ground, his psuedo-vigilance comes in handy too.
Cards I am wondering about, either as sideboard or maindeck options: Stromgald Crusader - this guy is strong enough to make it in Legacy, but I have a hard time finding him in standard deck lists. He doesn't get hit with Oblivion Ring or Condemn, and sales right by kithkin while blocking Serra Avenger all day long.
As far as the removal suite goes, damnation seems like an easy 4 of, quickly followed by Skriekmaw. But what then? I'm trying out Nameless Inversion, as it is pretty decent removal even without Hakkon, and can pump my Korlash at the last second for the win.
My metagame is awash in Kithkin and Elves, with a few people occassionally playing Turbofog, Martyr, and Blink (URW version I think). I'm waiting for someone to play TarmoRack, and I think people are gathering the cards to play it. There might be one teachings deck floating around.
My FNMs are about 40 people strong, so its not overly huge, but big enough.
I think this deck will give me the needed oomph to get around those elves and kithkin, using Damnation as the heavy hitter and the targeted removal to keep the board clear for Korlash to do his thing.
I use Phyrexian Ironfoot to hold the ground, his psuedo-vigilance comes in handy too.
Cards I am wondering about, either as sideboard or maindeck options: Stromgald Crusader - this guy is strong enough to make it in Legacy, but I have a hard time finding him in standard deck lists. He doesn't get hit with Oblivion Ring or Condemn, and sales right by kithkin while blocking Serra Avenger all day long.
As far as the removal suite goes, damnation seems like an easy 4 of, quickly followed by Skriekmaw. But what then? I'm trying out Nameless Inversion, as it is pretty decent removal even without Hakkon, and can pump my Korlash at the last second for the win.
I like the way how you added Phyrexian Ironfoot for more beat down and blocking but i think you'll need more removels( More Tendrils)and maybe a urza's factory ?And wheres are the thoughseize ?
I'm working on getting a playset of Thoughtseize, it is just a little difficult when they are in high demand and going for $25 a pop.
I thought about Urza's Factory right after I posted and it should be in the deck.
The deck has 11 targeted removal spells and 4 Damnation, and 4 Deathmark in the SB... do you think the deck should run more removal INSTEAD of the ironfoot? He's usually just bigger than anything else on the board turn 3. But then again, with a second turn mindstone, Graveborn Muse could be coming down, which will be larger than the opposing Kithkin Stalwart or Wizened Cenn, and can take out a vanquisher (or stay alive and net me a card).
toughtseize is a must in most versions... depending on the enviroment... if u whant to concentrate on fighting control decks with MBC than use more discard, like distress etc etc
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:mad1:Apprentice of Lavamancy:mad1:
playing in standard: Mono Black Control (from hell):evil:
My meta has enouh Elf and Kithkin decks to merit the Crusaders and Outlaws in the SB. The outlaws rape MGA, and are useful against Tarmogoyfs.
The Silver Bullets and two-of's interact nicely with Liliana. The recursion (Call to the Netherworld, Lord of the Undead) is there to use with Korlash, and the Lords also recur Nameless Inversion incase I don't draw any more creature kill. Oona's Prowler is a more aggro creature, but he helps apply pressure or give you card advantage.
"All these people having fun are playing for a gigantic 40000$ award, while I'm here sweating, players asking me stupid layer questions we all hate, and I'm thirsty.
I'm using the augers because i have yet to understand why i should value thoughtseize at 25 or even 20$..... and they are also great late game providing a hard to deal with blocker.... totems are a awesome way to win a game and someone earlier said they werent good because of burn, then don't activate them if they have cards in hand!! or mana open... it isn't that hard, they win me about 50% of my games, and i live in a high aggro meta... and mind stone is a must it helps in a pinch to dig you that removal you need.... other than that i've thought about tombstalker but i couldn't find room for him... and the same goes for dread.... both great cards. The sideboard needs work but my meta is odd and i haven't decided on what i need help with and what i don't.... critique is welcome.....
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You'll see me Playing: Standard UW Delver RB zombies
I saw a number of UB/x decks that did well in the States results, many of which were essentially variations of MBC Korlash decks. I myself took a deck like this to States, where I went 5-2-1. Without going into too much detail as to the evolution of the deck, here's the current version:
The deck is basically a black board control deck, but with Blue and White splashes for added card quality. The blue provides the deck with much better card-drawing than mono-black has available to it, and the white gives Oblivion Ring, allowing the deck to answer permanents that would otherwise prove very problematic, such as enchantments and planeswalkers.
This deck is very customizable, and I have seen versions that run Foresee, Momentary Blink, Dread, Tombstalker, Coalition Relic, and Pact of Negation. Without going into too much detail, here are the results of my testing with the deck so far:
It tends to beat non-red aggro decks fairly consistently, and the matchup with red-based aggro is right about 50-50, with whoever plays first being favored to win. Decks like TarmoRack with heavy discard can be problematic, and the games are often very draw-dependent (Dodecapod or no? and so forth).
Control matches are all over the place, and very much depend on specific card-choices and sideboard strategies. The only one I feel qualified to comment on is the Teachings matchup (I playtested it fairly well, and played against it 4 times at States). This deck usually loses to Teachings pre-board, but is favored post-board. The games often go extremely long, and draws are common.
I'm planning on playing this version in my City Champs starting next weekend, so I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts.
i run a deck similiar, and i beat aggro but pickles and such(heavy permission) can be bad, also with extirpate mannequinn is a decent matchup after board.
So apparently they just merged this thread with the MBC thread - probably a good idea. They are similar decks in terms of overall strategy, it's really an issue of specific card choices that differentiates the decks.
How is Riptide Pilferer working out for you? It seems like an idea worth testing...
@ DR, yea i guess they moved our thread i just send u a message about it btw.
Riptide has had mixed results, around me pickles is starting to play a lot of unsummons MD even, but he is still usually a 3 for one. I'd imagine hed be better if people dont play unsummon around you. I keep hearing about how good quagnoth is vs. pickles, being a unfavorable matchup, it may take riptides spot if i can tweak my mana to support it. It is janky though.
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thanks to aether for the awsome sig
R.I.P. Damage on the stack 1998-2009
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3 Mouth of Ronom
19 Snow-Covered Swamp
Creatures
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
4 Shriekmaw
Spells
2 Beacon of Unrest
4 Damnation
2 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Mind Stone
3 Nameless Inversion
2 Phyrexian Totem
2 Profane Command
3 Sudden Death
1 Consume Spirit
3 Deathmark
3 Extirpate
2 Liliana Vess
3 Pithing Needle
1 Profane Command
1 Sudden Death
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Mouth of Ronom
3 Scying sheets
14 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Urborg
Creatures
4 Graveborn Muse
3 Hypnotic Specter
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
4 Shriekmaw
2 Beacon of Unrest
4 Damnation
2 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Tendrils of Corruption
3 Mind Stone
3 Nameless Inversion
2 Phyrexian Totem
2 Profane Command
3 Sudden Death
here is my version.. i like Tendrils of Corruption main becouse of there are so many aggro decks these days, it turns the tide (atleast in this enviroment)
(edit-ed :P)
:mad1:Apprentice of Lavamancy:mad1:
playing in standard:
Mono Black Control
(from hell):evil:
you should be able to easily fit 3x scrying sheets in there. i've found that extremely clutch mid-game for weeding out extra swamps (and of course insuring mid-game land drops...which as you probably know, extremely important).
are the players using tendrils finding storm affects to be worth it? doesn't seem probable...have to have at least 5 mana for just one storm affect (so thoughtsize/extripate + tendrils). profane & consume spirit seem stronger off the top. (only problem i've found runnign consumes is that it's black mana and w/ scrying sheets/mouth that can cut down the actual amount of damage possible...which is why i'm leaning more and more lately toward profane since it's just colorless for X rather than B for consume). </rant>
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I think it's safe to assume he means Tendrils of Corruption...
Currently losing with:
W Midrange White (Standard)
UB Faeries (Block)
Definitely. I played several games where I wished I had the snow engine, because I was constantly drawing dead. Even if you just have Snow lands it is definitely worth it. Against decks like U/G and Teachings, you can't give them those extra 2-3 turns before you drop a threat, because you will not win.
Check out the H/W List playa:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=80563
Member of the Syndicate
Syndicate Members:5
My AIM is Satriani744 (shocker, right?;))
It's a great way to get in touch with me for trades, or just chattin'. Just don't stalk me please.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
Cut the Totems, IMO. They're susceptible to having your board raped. One opening with Incinerate, Tarfire, or any damage form will cost you heavily.
I agree with the Snow engine argument and intend to acquire as many Snow-Covered Swamps for the deck (>_< Dammit Coldsnap). Could use a storage land (Dreadship Reef, and the good ol' ToY.
Profane Command > Beacon of Unrest
Distress or TSeize for the hand-wreckage. Stupor is alright, but gives them a choice on the second discard.
Feel free to refute/agree with my evaluation. My 0.02.
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
:mad1:Apprentice of Lavamancy:mad1:
playing in standard:
Mono Black Control
(from hell):evil:
15 Snow-Covered Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mouth of Ronom
4 Scrying Sheets
[10 Creatures]
3 Graveborn Muse
3 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
2 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
2 Twisted Abomination
4 Thoughtseize
4 Nameless Inversion
4 Damnation
4 Coldsteel Heart
3 Liliana Vess
3 Smallpox
1 Profane Command
1 Stupor
4 Dodecapod
3 Stupor
3 Extirpate
3 Soul Spike
2 Tendrils of Corruption
Currently losing with:
W Midrange White (Standard)
UB Faeries (Block)
I think Mind Stone will be better then Coldsteel Heart for that extra card draw when needed ...
Your list is pretty solid only 3 things I would like to point out. Soul Spike was the best answer for pickles lock but now there is Slaughter Pact they both do the samething but Pact is better unless they are using the Faerie land-lock that I have seen on the forums I can post the combo for all to see later if anyone needs to know what to look-out for. Soul Spike vs. Slaughter Pact is really a personal choice though. Second I think the Abominations are not the best choice in a creature, where Dread is a better control card and can make the enemy think about what they are going to do. If Dread is still not your flavor there are better control cards like Sudden Spoiling that shuts up everything from Akroma, Angel of Wrath to Tarmogoyf and makes Tefari and Pickle decks cry. And finally you need 4 Korlash because seriously a fourth Korlash is better than 4 Damnations because seriously how many times do you really need to sweep the board if your running the Haakon-Inversion engine? Otherwise a Top-notch list.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
19 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Scrying Sheets
Creatures // 20
4 Phyrexian Ironfoot
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Shriekmaw
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Damnation
2 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Profane Command
3 Nameless Inversion
Artifacts // 6
4 Mindstone
2 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Dodecapod
4 Stupor
3 Slaughter Pact
4 Deathmark
My metagame is awash in Kithkin and Elves, with a few people occassionally playing Turbofog, Martyr, and Blink (URW version I think). I'm waiting for someone to play TarmoRack, and I think people are gathering the cards to play it. There might be one teachings deck floating around.
My FNMs are about 40 people strong, so its not overly huge, but big enough.
I think this deck will give me the needed oomph to get around those elves and kithkin, using Damnation as the heavy hitter and the targeted removal to keep the board clear for Korlash to do his thing.
I use Phyrexian Ironfoot to hold the ground, his psuedo-vigilance comes in handy too.
Cards I am wondering about, either as sideboard or maindeck options:
Stromgald Crusader - this guy is strong enough to make it in Legacy, but I have a hard time finding him in standard deck lists. He doesn't get hit with Oblivion Ring or Condemn, and sales right by kithkin while blocking Serra Avenger all day long.
Along similar routes against Elves, maybe Dunerider Outlaw?
As far as the removal suite goes, damnation seems like an easy 4 of, quickly followed by Skriekmaw. But what then? I'm trying out Nameless Inversion, as it is pretty decent removal even without Hakkon, and can pump my Korlash at the last second for the win.
After that I opted for Profane Command for its versatility, and Tendrils of Corruption for the lifegain. What about Terror or Sudden Death? Consume Spirit?
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
I like the way how you added Phyrexian Ironfoot for more beat down and blocking but i think you'll need more removels( More Tendrils)and maybe a urza's factory ?And wheres are the thoughseize ?
I thought about Urza's Factory right after I posted and it should be in the deck.
The deck has 11 targeted removal spells and 4 Damnation, and 4 Deathmark in the SB... do you think the deck should run more removal INSTEAD of the ironfoot? He's usually just bigger than anything else on the board turn 3. But then again, with a second turn mindstone, Graveborn Muse could be coming down, which will be larger than the opposing Kithkin Stalwart or Wizened Cenn, and can take out a vanquisher (or stay alive and net me a card).
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
:mad1:Apprentice of Lavamancy:mad1:
playing in standard:
Mono Black Control
(from hell):evil:
3 Scrying Sheets
2 Mouth of Ronom
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
4 Shriekmaw
3 Oona's Prowler
3 Hypnotic Specter
3 Graveborn Muse
1 Lord of the Undead
4 Thoughtseize
3 Nameless Inversion
3 Damnation
2 Profane Command
2 Call to the Netherworld
1 Extirpate
4 Slaughter Pact
4 Stromgald Crusader
3 Dunerider Outlaw
2 Extirpate
2 Stupor
My meta has enouh Elf and Kithkin decks to merit the Crusaders and Outlaws in the SB. The outlaws rape MGA, and are useful against Tarmogoyfs.
The Silver Bullets and two-of's interact nicely with Liliana. The recursion (Call to the Netherworld, Lord of the Undead) is there to use with Korlash, and the Lords also recur Nameless Inversion incase I don't draw any more creature kill. Oona's Prowler is a more aggro creature, but he helps apply pressure or give you card advantage.
I'm using the augers because i have yet to understand why i should value thoughtseize at 25 or even 20$..... and they are also great late game providing a hard to deal with blocker.... totems are a awesome way to win a game and someone earlier said they werent good because of burn, then don't activate them if they have cards in hand!! or mana open... it isn't that hard, they win me about 50% of my games, and i live in a high aggro meta... and mind stone is a must it helps in a pinch to dig you that removal you need.... other than that i've thought about tombstalker but i couldn't find room for him... and the same goes for dread.... both great cards. The sideboard needs work but my meta is odd and i haven't decided on what i need help with and what i don't.... critique is welcome.....
Standard
UW Delver
RB zombies
Modern
UWR delver aggro
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Tolaria West
2 Calciform Pools
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Urza's Factory
4 Prismatic Lens
4 Damnation
4 Thoughtseize
4 Oblivion Ring
2 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Profane Command
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Mulldrifter
4 Shriekmaw
2 Aeon Chronicler
4 Dodecapod
4 Shadowmage Infiltrator
3 Extirpate
2 Liliana Vess
2 Loxodon Warhammer
The deck is basically a black board control deck, but with Blue and White splashes for added card quality. The blue provides the deck with much better card-drawing than mono-black has available to it, and the white gives Oblivion Ring, allowing the deck to answer permanents that would otherwise prove very problematic, such as enchantments and planeswalkers.
This deck is very customizable, and I have seen versions that run Foresee, Momentary Blink, Dread, Tombstalker, Coalition Relic, and Pact of Negation. Without going into too much detail, here are the results of my testing with the deck so far:
It tends to beat non-red aggro decks fairly consistently, and the matchup with red-based aggro is right about 50-50, with whoever plays first being favored to win. Decks like TarmoRack with heavy discard can be problematic, and the games are often very draw-dependent (Dodecapod or no? and so forth).
Control matches are all over the place, and very much depend on specific card-choices and sideboard strategies. The only one I feel qualified to comment on is the Teachings matchup (I playtested it fairly well, and played against it 4 times at States). This deck usually loses to Teachings pre-board, but is favored post-board. The games often go extremely long, and draws are common.
I'm planning on playing this version in my City Champs starting next weekend, so I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts.
Thanks to Avatar for the rockin' Sig and Avvy!
4 underground river
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
2 gemstone mine
2 tolaria west
2 adarkar wastes
1 plains
1 island
1 urza's factory
4 shriekmaw
4 korlash, heir to blackblade
3 aeon chronicler
3 shadowmage infiltrator
4 oblivion ring
4 damnation
4 tendrils of corruption
2 profane command
1 slaughter pact
2 liliana vess
4 extirpate
4 riptide pilferer
4 sudden death
1 liliana vess
2 take possession
i really like this deck
thanks to aether for the awsome sig
R.I.P. Damage on the stack 1998-2009
How is Riptide Pilferer working out for you? It seems like an idea worth testing...
Thanks to Avatar for the rockin' Sig and Avvy!
Riptide has had mixed results, around me pickles is starting to play a lot of unsummons MD even, but he is still usually a 3 for one. I'd imagine hed be better if people dont play unsummon around you. I keep hearing about how good quagnoth is vs. pickles, being a unfavorable matchup, it may take riptides spot if i can tweak my mana to support it. It is janky though.
thanks to aether for the awsome sig
R.I.P. Damage on the stack 1998-2009