So the idea here is buff mono-White recursion, via persist, reanimate, and reset. Endless Horizons will accelerate into a Worldpurge, and reap the draw advantage. Pretty cool...
After looking at this, I think the deck should be called Crusades! because it is full of Knights, purging and endless horizons. Also exorcisms (Hexhunter) and rising from the dead (persist). And Wrath of God. huh... I guess when you play someone with this you are obligated to do a Samuel Jackson impression from Pulp Fiction... "And you will KNOW, my name is THE LORD when I lay my vengeance on thee..."
I think you are better off trying to make the Worldpurge/Barren Glory deck. Just hide the Glory under an Oblivion Ring and purge away. Choose to draw 0 cards.
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You do know Worldpurge returns the Horizons to hand and makes you lose the land?
Yeah, but you only need some of the lands already on the table, and you'll draw into all your threats for the rest of the game. If you Worldpurge, you won't need anymore land... Just keep 4-5 land and 2-3 threats, and you won't need or get any more land... (This is simplified, it might be better to leave a few land in the deck at times, but that is off-topic)
Remember, this is something you will play against a deck that you haven't already beaten by turn 5, which is likely a Control deck trying to stabilize against you or a Combo Deck trying to go off, and can actually turn the game back in your favor.
Good question though, you are probably not the only one who wondered that...
Yea, first of all, you stated that it accelerates into it, with no acceleration.
Also like Johm said, Worldpurge bounces Horizons, thus shutting off its triggered ability.:-/
hmm.. you misunderstand. Endless Horizon is the acceleration to get from 5 to 8 mana... Generally a deck won't drop 8 consecutive land, and Endless Horizons is a tool to aid in that goal, with an extra benefit of Mana Severance. It's a little different than what you might be used to. Worldpurge returns land to your hand, and you won't miss a land drop.
I think you are better off trying to make the Worldpurge/Barren Glory deck. Just hide the Glory under an Oblivion Ring and purge away. Choose to draw 0 cards.
Thanks for the thought. That deck (Barren Glory) makes Oblivion Ring even more worthless than it already is in the current format, and even that deck could use Endless Horizons to accelerate into Worldpurge... Crusades! is definitely an Aggro Deck with benefits, unlike that one...
But the definition of Acceleration is to speed up. Just giving you land drops from 5-8 isn't acceleration. Playing cards like mind stone or coldsteel heart, that's considered acceleration.
Once you play the worldpurge, all that happens is that the game resets, and you won't draw lands the rest of the game (assuming you remove them all). You cant draw the lands from endless horizon once it's bounced to your hand.
But the definition of Acceleration is to speed up. Just giving you land drops from 5-8 isn't acceleration. Playing cards like mind stone or coldsteel heart, that's considered acceleration.
Once you play the worldpurge, all that happens is that the game resets, and you won't draw lands the rest of the game (assuming you remove them all). You cant draw the lands from endless horizon once it's bounced to your hand.
You still don't get it. I'll explain it for you...
Ok so for a deck with 24 land, how do the land drops occur? On average, you are going to have drops consistently on turns 1-3, with a semi-consistent turn 4 drop. Anybody feel free to provide statistics if they think it will help. Without any form of acceleration, land drops 5-8 are going to be spotty, and the 8th drop won't occur by turn 8 or 9. In fact, it will probably won't occur until at least turn 12. Turn 12 is generally much to late for an Aggro Deck to succeed.
However, if you play Endless Horizons when you have 4-5 land, you should have 8 mana by turn 9, which allows you to play Worldpurge while it still matters. This is definitely an increase in speed, just not in the way you are used to seeing because it is on the high end of the curve. You could play ramp effects for acceleration like you suggest, but this deck is trying to do something different by playing early threats and then accelerating to Worldpurge in case the board stabilizes.
The Mana Severance is good, not bad. Because the deck is designed to create threats on the lower end of the curve, Endless Horizons/Worldpurge gives you the best circumstance when the board is reset. Guaranteed land drops (in your hand) plus dense threat drawing. The advantage here is clear if you think it through.
So yes, it is acceleration and yes it does give you the land you need. It is really pretty sweet. I hope that cleared it up for you.
You're defining acceleration differently than most people do. The usual definition is producing more mana than you would have available only by playing lands each turn. Your approach is to generate consistent land drops. Though I do see your point, in that you will more regularly have more mana available in the later game than most decks without acceleration or something else to make sure they hit their land drop each turn.
You're defining acceleration differently than most people do. The usual definition is producing more mana than you would have available only by playing lands each turn. Your approach is to generate consistent land drops. Though I do see your point, in that you will more regularly have more mana available in the later game than most decks without acceleration or something else to make sure they hit their land drop each turn.
I think it is splitting hairs really, but terminology is important so I'll give my perspective.
If it helps to play a card by turns earlier than would normally be possible, by any correct definition it is acceleration. The fact that you say most people define acceleration as some traditional Wall of Roots is only a part of what acceleration can be. It can also be cards that reduce the cost of spells. Or it can be an artificial way to get consistent land drops much longer than normal.
In this case, the only way it would not be acceleration is if the deck ran at least 30 land and hit 8 straight land drops without any help. But even then, it isn't the same, because with Endless Horizons the deck is thinned out and this gives you a higher probability of drawing into Worldpurge as well. It will regularly help you play the Worldpurge faster than would otherwise be possible, so you can see why I have no hesitation in calling it acceleration.
If it makes you feel better, call it "deck acceleration" or "pseudo-acceleration." It doesn't matter because in practical application it does the same thing that something you would call acceleration does. Whatever you call it, it is still a very cool concept, and a much improved mechanic over Abundance.
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3 Endless Horizons
2 WorldPurge
3 Wrath of God
2 Shield of the Oversoul
Creatures
4 Figure of Destiny
3 Safehold Elite
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Kinsbaile Cavalier
2 Reveillark
24 Plains
4 Elvish Hexhunter
3 Tivadar of Thorn
After looking at this, I think the deck should be called Crusades! because it is full of Knights, purging and endless horizons. Also exorcisms (Hexhunter) and rising from the dead (persist). And Wrath of God. huh... I guess when you play someone with this you are obligated to do a Samuel Jackson impression from Pulp Fiction... "And you will KNOW, my name is THE LORD when I lay my vengeance on thee..."
Also like Johm said, Worldpurge bounces Horizons, thus shutting off its triggered ability.:-/
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Standard
:symw::symu::symr: American Control
:symw::symu::symb: Esper Control
:symw::symb::symg: Aristocrats
Modern
:symw::symu::symr: Splinter Twin
:symb::symr::symg: Living End
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Yeah, but you only need some of the lands already on the table, and you'll draw into all your threats for the rest of the game. If you Worldpurge, you won't need anymore land... Just keep 4-5 land and 2-3 threats, and you won't need or get any more land... (This is simplified, it might be better to leave a few land in the deck at times, but that is off-topic)
Remember, this is something you will play against a deck that you haven't already beaten by turn 5, which is likely a Control deck trying to stabilize against you or a Combo Deck trying to go off, and can actually turn the game back in your favor.
Good question though, you are probably not the only one who wondered that...
hmm.. you misunderstand. Endless Horizon is the acceleration to get from 5 to 8 mana... Generally a deck won't drop 8 consecutive land, and Endless Horizons is a tool to aid in that goal, with an extra benefit of Mana Severance. It's a little different than what you might be used to. Worldpurge returns land to your hand, and you won't miss a land drop.
Thanks for the thought. That deck (Barren Glory) makes Oblivion Ring even more worthless than it already is in the current format, and even that deck could use Endless Horizons to accelerate into Worldpurge... Crusades! is definitely an Aggro Deck with benefits, unlike that one...
Once you play the worldpurge, all that happens is that the game resets, and you won't draw lands the rest of the game (assuming you remove them all). You cant draw the lands from endless horizon once it's bounced to your hand.
2 Southern California Regionals top 8's : 2008, 2009
Standard
:symw::symu::symr: American Control
:symw::symu::symb: Esper Control
:symw::symb::symg: Aristocrats
Modern
:symw::symu::symr: Splinter Twin
:symb::symr::symg: Living End
You still don't get it. I'll explain it for you...
Ok so for a deck with 24 land, how do the land drops occur? On average, you are going to have drops consistently on turns 1-3, with a semi-consistent turn 4 drop. Anybody feel free to provide statistics if they think it will help. Without any form of acceleration, land drops 5-8 are going to be spotty, and the 8th drop won't occur by turn 8 or 9. In fact, it will probably won't occur until at least turn 12. Turn 12 is generally much to late for an Aggro Deck to succeed.
However, if you play Endless Horizons when you have 4-5 land, you should have 8 mana by turn 9, which allows you to play Worldpurge while it still matters. This is definitely an increase in speed, just not in the way you are used to seeing because it is on the high end of the curve. You could play ramp effects for acceleration like you suggest, but this deck is trying to do something different by playing early threats and then accelerating to Worldpurge in case the board stabilizes.
The Mana Severance is good, not bad. Because the deck is designed to create threats on the lower end of the curve, Endless Horizons/Worldpurge gives you the best circumstance when the board is reset. Guaranteed land drops (in your hand) plus dense threat drawing. The advantage here is clear if you think it through.
So yes, it is acceleration and yes it does give you the land you need. It is really pretty sweet. I hope that cleared it up for you.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
I think it is splitting hairs really, but terminology is important so I'll give my perspective.
If it helps to play a card by turns earlier than would normally be possible, by any correct definition it is acceleration. The fact that you say most people define acceleration as some traditional Wall of Roots is only a part of what acceleration can be. It can also be cards that reduce the cost of spells. Or it can be an artificial way to get consistent land drops much longer than normal.
In this case, the only way it would not be acceleration is if the deck ran at least 30 land and hit 8 straight land drops without any help. But even then, it isn't the same, because with Endless Horizons the deck is thinned out and this gives you a higher probability of drawing into Worldpurge as well. It will regularly help you play the Worldpurge faster than would otherwise be possible, so you can see why I have no hesitation in calling it acceleration.
If it makes you feel better, call it "deck acceleration" or "pseudo-acceleration." It doesn't matter because in practical application it does the same thing that something you would call acceleration does. Whatever you call it, it is still a very cool concept, and a much improved mechanic over Abundance.