To all users posting in this thread: As of yet, Mono-Black Control is not an "established" archetype in the Type II metagame. However, that being said, it is still likely for there at least to be a presence of Mono-Black Control on the Competitive scene. Therefore, it will be provided it's own Official Thread AS LONG AS THERE IS REGULAR ACTIVITY WITHIN THE THREAD. If there appears to be little activity or development inside the thread, the thread will be closed.
As I've already said, chances are you are likely to see at least one Mono-Black Control deck at your local FNM or at Regionals. Therefore it is considered to be Competitive, and will remain in the forum unless there is no activity within the thread. Please do not post anything along the lines of "This deck is crap." or "This shouldn't be in Competitive". Posts along those lines will be infracted.
I don't like the icy manipulator in there. Chameleon colossus don't seem as common right now. Elves run it though. It could be a good choice. Bottle gnomes look better main board.
I don't like the icy manipulator in there. Chameleon colossus don't seem as common right now. Elves run it though. It could be a good choice. Bottle gnomes look better main board.
In any case, it can't be anything more than a sideboard card then, and definitely not maindecked.
I like mono-black control running mindstone for a possible turn-3 damnation if needed. Profane command is absolutely required, probaly a 3-of. I also like shriekmaw instead of terror because it can be another attacker, because currently there is only (sometimes) Korlash, Heir to Blackblade, Demigod of Revenge, and usually a very weak Dusk Urchins. Mono-black usually doesn't need the instant speed, and if it absolutely does, you can always throw in Nameless Inversion.
In any case, it can't be anything more than a sideboard card then, and definitely not maindecked.
I like mono-black control running mindstone for a possible turn-3 damnation if needed. Profane command is absolutely required, probaly a 3-of. I also like shriekmaw instead of terror because it can be another attacker, because currently there is only (sometimes) Korlash, Heir to Blackblade, Demigod of Revenge, and usually a very weak Dusk Urchins. Mono-black usually doesn't need the instant speed, and if it absolutely does, you can always throw in Nameless Inversion.
I would much rather use coldsteel heart because of the intensive black stuff like sudden death, BTQ, and Demigod of revenge.
I don't like the icy manipulator in there. Chameleon colossus don't seem as common right now. Elves run it though. It could be a good choice. Bottle gnomes look better main board.
Most competitive decks that has green runs it, at least 4 competitive decks posted in this forum runs it. I think that its one of the only ways to deal with colossus rather than damnation. There should be at least 2 in the MD because its not hard to fetch it with beseech.
The best card draw at the moment I think for black is the put a -1 -1 counter on target creature you control and draw 2 cards one. It goes quite well on a Dusk Urchins, it's also nice to just ping a blossom token and draw 2 cards.
The deck, as many people have previously noted, varies between full-on control (something akin to this version) or midrange (splashing for red, refer to the Archives about R/B Korlash-Void). That being said, card choices:
Lands: I've opted out of using the snow base because it's too limited to fetch up things via the Scrying Sheets. You usually end up getting a Mouth or another Swamp, if you're lucky. Given that the deck has seen a heavy overhaul since Shadowmoor rolled, I've opted to return to plain Swamps.
Urza's Factory - lategame matchups that like to screw with you? Return the favor, and these guys love chumping Colossus or grabbing the 'hammer and assailing. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - all-around fixing for your black mana problems. Mutavault - in a pinch, it can break stalemates or become Colossus fodder. Dreadship Reef - a gigantic Profane or filtering into black isn't terrible. Leechridden Swamp - puts them on a clock. Usually you land a 'blossom, and you'll never be short of taking their life. Plus, you can fetch these at EoT with a grandeured Korlash
Creatures: Epochrasite - doubles on chumping or being a slow beater. It slows up the Colossus/Oversoul hurt. Dusk Urchins - beats and cards are great, especially together... Korlash, Heir to Blackblade - fetching lands, beefing by the Tomb, grabbing your 'hammer, he does it all. Demigod of Revenge - while being restrictive since you need five black mana to cast in my version, can turn the game back to your favor. I mean...it's evasion, haste (so avoid those O-Rings), and eats a quarter of your opponent's life...
Spells: Damnation - Duh? Tendrils of Corruption - Life is good. Killing something at the same time is better. Profane Command - Probably my favorite card of all time as of late, this thing is versatile enough to win a game. Reanimation, murder, lifedrain, or fear-swing, you can't really go wrong. Mind Stone - Ramping mana or cards in the late game. It usually works. Bitterblossom - Also called Bitterawesome, this thing is a powerhouse on its own. Stall, beat, and power through. If you're playing black, chances are you're playing Bitterawesome. Loxodon Warhammer - Protection ruining your day? Got a regenerating chumper that just says no? Ignore them and crush face, while fixing your life total! Beseech the Queen - In a pinch, it fixes your black sources. In the late, it brings out a finisher. Also, on turn 3, you can go get Profane, and that alone wins me over.
Sideboard: Sudden Spoiling - Fog variant, Project R stopper, you name it. It really does a lot more than you think, and allows you to get rid of pesky protection folk at the same time. Sudden Death - It's uncounterable, effectively. It kills most things on sight...check. Thoughtseize - Control matchups...take out that annoying key piece and play a bit easier thereafter. Extirpate - Cashseize's best bud, this guy rips out the graveyard, fast. It also peeks at your opponent's hand, so you can pretty much be ready for what's next.
- Extras, just in case.
---
Obviously, the build varies between players, but it's diverse, powerful, and responds to numerous decks.
Most competitive decks that has green runs it, at least 4 competitive decks posted in this forum runs it. I think that its one of the only ways to deal with colossus rather than damnation. There should be at least 2 in the MD because its not hard to fetch it with beseech.
The best card draw at the moment I think for black is the put a -1 -1 counter on target creature you control and draw 2 cards one. It goes quite well on a Dusk Urchins, it's also nice to just ping a blossom token and draw 2 cards.
A lot of decks have cut CC in the last month. But with PT Hollywood, all of them are running CC again. Does that warrant the inclusion of icy manipulator?
A lot of decks have cut CC in the last month. But with PT Hollywood, all of them are running CC again. Does that warrant the inclusion of icy manipulator?
Considering a lot of local FNM does netdeck to a certain extent, I think it should be put into consideration.
Needs more card draw. Let me think... maybe Graveborn Muse? Seems to be pretty hard to do without Phyrexian arena.
Maybe. We have Dusk Urchins, Scrying Sheets, and Bitterblossom is card advantage without actually card drawing. I'm always one for drawing a lot of cards, but I don't know if the muse is necessary. If you are playing Muse, I would play Mutavault as a cute way to draw 2 cards instead of 1.
I don't like the icy manipulator in there. Chameleon colossus don't seem as common right now. ELves don't usually run it. But the manipulator can be good on it's own.
I was just messing around with a MBC the other day, and I really didn't expect Icy to be that good, but when I tried it out, I was impressed with it. As a whole, I wasn't overly excited about the deck, but I loved Icy as a productive thing to do on turn 4 when I didn't want to Damnation. When I did Damnation, I still had IM, and it usually put me ahead. I haven't played the deck enough to advise others to play it, but I was impressed with it.
One thing the list I posted defiantly needs is Coldsteel Heart though.
@ Memnarch:
What matchups do you feel are strongest/weakest for this deck? I can actually see Murderous Redcap having a home in here... As you not only will be able to pick off some lesser dudes, but with Profane Command he just gets plain silly. I don't know what you'd cut for him... Or if he'd only be a SB card, but I think that Redcap could really do well in this deck.
Most of the time when I need to draw extra cards (playing mono black), I usually have a creature in play. The worst case scenario I had was activating mutavault and putting a counter onto it. I think the other way to deal with Colossus is Sudden Spoiling, I think it's a very underrated card, and does wonders in many many situations, at worst its a fog.
Most of the time when I need to draw extra cards (playing mono black), I usually have a creature in play. The worst case scenario I had was activating mutavault and putting a counter onto it. I think the other way to deal with Colossus is Sudden Spoiling, I think it's a very underrated card, and does wonders in many many situations, at worst its a fog.
Sudden spoiling should be used, even at maindeck maybe. I find my self more reactive against aggro decks. I use deserts instead of mutavaults. Making it even harder to have a creature out.
Spoiling MD seems a LITTLE questionable... But if you run enough dudes (Mutavaults, Redcaps, Urchins might even be enough) I can see it being pretty devastating. You'd have to make the deck more creature based however, which is not something MBC would NECESSARILY want to do.
Mediocre - Faeries: here I find that it's a matter of who lands a Bitterblossom first, and how long you manage to keep going, especially after post-SB.
Favorable - Most aggro matchups; you end up slaughtering their beats and out-tempoing them.
To be honest, I haven't done enough testing yet, so some of these matchups may need some fixing. Hopefully some of the former MBC thread members will correct/affirm/deny/etc. any of my assessments.
---
On a separate note, regarding Murderous Redcap...it seems okay, but the fact of the matter is that the four-slot is already clogged as is. Damns, 'lash, Tendrils, etc. The effect is mediocre, I feel. A CitP Shock, followed by a CitP ping is really mediocre, if anything. You've got better options in either Profane choosing life loss and fear to push through for the win or a straight-faced Corrupt (for the decks that use it, I've thought of it to be too slow in retrospect.) Heck, even Demigod of Revenge fits in the last bits of pain.
What happened to the old thread?
Hollywood dictates a new thread?
I said on the last
mbc
thread we should try out Trip Noose and was politely told NO!!
It cost less to get in play than Icy does, though it cost more to activate but.... You can put it out on turn 2 so your not sitting around with it in your hand for 4 turns. This means running 3-4 is not so bad as compared with Manipulator, which means your gonna see often.
I don`t think its the greatest card by any stretch but it almost seems necessary and I can`t see it being useless every really.
Pay 2 put it on the board and now
Icy's activation is cheaper, which is marginally better since I find myself rather stringent about mana-spending: do it right or fail. Otherwise, it can also knock off annoying artifacts or manlands.
EDIT: Pretty much a new Standard metagame was defined, so cleanup was inevitable. I like it better this way...wish we could've kept the old thread, but this still works.
okay, I tested a little and it seems now that people are net decking pro's lists there are alot more tuned decks floating around...... We are gonna have to find a way to gain control sooner and keep it or this is doomed... As far as LD goes we pretty much loose to it, Magus doesn't hurt us as much as it does other decks, but if we miss a land drop we hurt alot.
Slaughter pact seems to work good against alot of the popular decks and would also let us pull a few surprises.
Extirpate helps a lot against things that are hard to dispose of in the first place.
I think that 4x Thoughtseize and 4x Extirpate are a must. It's the only way to manage some cards.
4x Bitterblossom is a must IMO too. It helps us stall longer than we should be able too.
While Tendrils of Corruption is okay in this deck some times its too slow for its effect....
As for warhammer its a great card but it requires something that you don't always have...
With that into consideration, I have come up with this...
Sideboard 4 Fate Transfer (I find this great against wither) 4 Scuttlemutt (Pro-black creatures be dammned, terror universals, certain auros lose their target) 4 Fairy Macabre (I don't have the extirpates) 3 ...
I know this deck needs work, and I'd appreciate the help. I need to get my hands on Sudden Spoiling, more Sudden Deaths, and Bitterblossom if possible.
Any ideas?
I also never know what cards to side out for what?
if you dont have extirpate then i would recommend playing tormod's crypt instead of fae macabre, esp. if you are just looking for graveyard removal, i think the faerie is extremely inefficient and you can fill that slot with something much better. having to have 2 in hand for a card to be effective is really bad.....
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As I've already said, chances are you are likely to see at least one Mono-Black Control deck at your local FNM or at Regionals. Therefore it is considered to be Competitive, and will remain in the forum unless there is no activity within the thread. Please do not post anything along the lines of "This deck is crap." or "This shouldn't be in Competitive". Posts along those lines will be infracted.
3x Mouth of Ronom
4x Scrying Sheets (Mutavault also works)
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
15x Swamp
Creatures
4x Demigod of Revenge
4x Dusk Urchins
2x Oona, Queen of the Fae
4x Damnation
4x Bitterblossom
3x Terror
4x Icy Manipulator (Really good at dealing with Chameleon Collossus and "Man-lands".)
3x Beseech the Queen
3x Tendrils of Corruption
2x Corrupt
1x Profane Command
Needs more card draw. Let me think... maybe Graveborn Muse? Seems to be pretty hard to do without Phyrexian arena.
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
In any case, it can't be anything more than a sideboard card then, and definitely not maindecked.
I like mono-black control running mindstone for a possible turn-3 damnation if needed. Profane command is absolutely required, probaly a 3-of. I also like shriekmaw instead of terror because it can be another attacker, because currently there is only (sometimes) Korlash, Heir to Blackblade, Demigod of Revenge, and usually a very weak Dusk Urchins. Mono-black usually doesn't need the instant speed, and if it absolutely does, you can always throw in Nameless Inversion.
I would much rather use coldsteel heart because of the intensive black stuff like sudden death, BTQ, and Demigod of revenge.
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
Most competitive decks that has green runs it, at least 4 competitive decks posted in this forum runs it. I think that its one of the only ways to deal with colossus rather than damnation. There should be at least 2 in the MD because its not hard to fetch it with beseech.
The best card draw at the moment I think for black is the put a -1 -1 counter on target creature you control and draw 2 cards one. It goes quite well on a Dusk Urchins, it's also nice to just ping a blossom token and draw 2 cards.
Good point. Forgot Coldsteel Heart even existed, and it works a million times better.
What about Leechridden swamp? Too slow/useless without Bitterblossom?
16 Swamp
2 Mutavault
1 Dreadship Reef
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Leechridden Swamp
1 Urza's Factory
Creatures (14):
4 Dusk Urchins
3 Epochrasite
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
3 Demigod of Revenge
3 Damnation
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Profane Command
3 Bitterblossom
4 Mind Stone
2 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Beseech the Queen
3 Sudden Spoiling
4 Sudden Death
3 Thoughtseize
3 Extirpate
1 Damnation
1 Bitterblossom
Lands:
I've opted out of using the snow base because it's too limited to fetch up things via the Scrying Sheets. You usually end up getting a Mouth or another Swamp, if you're lucky. Given that the deck has seen a heavy overhaul since Shadowmoor rolled, I've opted to return to plain Swamps.
Urza's Factory - lategame matchups that like to screw with you? Return the favor, and these guys love chumping Colossus or grabbing the 'hammer and assailing.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - all-around fixing for your black mana problems.
Mutavault - in a pinch, it can break stalemates or become Colossus fodder.
Dreadship Reef - a gigantic Profane or filtering into black isn't terrible.
Leechridden Swamp - puts them on a clock. Usually you land a 'blossom, and you'll never be short of taking their life. Plus, you can fetch these at EoT with a grandeured Korlash
Creatures:
Epochrasite - doubles on chumping or being a slow beater. It slows up the Colossus/Oversoul hurt.
Dusk Urchins - beats and cards are great, especially together...
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade - fetching lands, beefing by the Tomb, grabbing your 'hammer, he does it all.
Demigod of Revenge - while being restrictive since you need five black mana to cast in my version, can turn the game back to your favor. I mean...it's evasion, haste (so avoid those O-Rings), and eats a quarter of your opponent's life...
Spells:
Damnation - Duh?
Tendrils of Corruption - Life is good. Killing something at the same time is better.
Profane Command - Probably my favorite card of all time as of late, this thing is versatile enough to win a game. Reanimation, murder, lifedrain, or fear-swing, you can't really go wrong.
Mind Stone - Ramping mana or cards in the late game. It usually works.
Bitterblossom - Also called Bitterawesome, this thing is a powerhouse on its own. Stall, beat, and power through. If you're playing black, chances are you're playing Bitterawesome.
Loxodon Warhammer - Protection ruining your day? Got a regenerating chumper that just says no? Ignore them and crush face, while fixing your life total!
Beseech the Queen - In a pinch, it fixes your black sources. In the late, it brings out a finisher. Also, on turn 3, you can go get Profane, and that alone wins me over.
Sideboard:
Sudden Spoiling - Fog variant, Project R stopper, you name it. It really does a lot more than you think, and allows you to get rid of pesky protection folk at the same time.
Sudden Death - It's uncounterable, effectively. It kills most things on sight...check.
Thoughtseize - Control matchups...take out that annoying key piece and play a bit easier thereafter.
Extirpate - Cashseize's best bud, this guy rips out the graveyard, fast. It also peeks at your opponent's hand, so you can pretty much be ready for what's next.
- Extras, just in case.
---
Obviously, the build varies between players, but it's diverse, powerful, and responds to numerous decks.
My 0.02. Comments/criticism welcome.
EDIT: Regarding comments above this one:
Coldsteel Heart is optimal when you're running the snow mana base, I think.
I'm not sure totally about the Icy Manipulator.
Previous testing suggests that Scarscale Ritual is too unreliable...
Graveborn Muse versus Dusk Urchins? (Personally, I like DU over GM now...)
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
A lot of decks have cut CC in the last month. But with PT Hollywood, all of them are running CC again. Does that warrant the inclusion of icy manipulator?
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
Considering a lot of local FNM does netdeck to a certain extent, I think it should be put into consideration.
Maybe. We have Dusk Urchins, Scrying Sheets, and Bitterblossom is card advantage without actually card drawing. I'm always one for drawing a lot of cards, but I don't know if the muse is necessary. If you are playing Muse, I would play Mutavault as a cute way to draw 2 cards instead of 1.
I was just messing around with a MBC the other day, and I really didn't expect Icy to be that good, but when I tried it out, I was impressed with it. As a whole, I wasn't overly excited about the deck, but I loved Icy as a productive thing to do on turn 4 when I didn't want to Damnation. When I did Damnation, I still had IM, and it usually put me ahead. I haven't played the deck enough to advise others to play it, but I was impressed with it.
One thing the list I posted defiantly needs is Coldsteel Heart though.
I suppose so. I just don't like the looks of icy manipulator as a card itself really. Compared to everything else we have.
On your last comment, I don't like scarscale ritual. I often don't have a creature in play to pay the additional cost.
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
What matchups do you feel are strongest/weakest for this deck? I can actually see Murderous Redcap having a home in here... As you not only will be able to pick off some lesser dudes, but with Profane Command he just gets plain silly. I don't know what you'd cut for him... Or if he'd only be a SB card, but I think that Redcap could really do well in this deck.
Sudden spoiling should be used, even at maindeck maybe. I find my self more reactive against aggro decks. I use deserts instead of mutavaults. Making it even harder to have a creature out.
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
Unfavorable
- G/W Mana-Ramp: Akroma, pro-black critters, Primal...it just hurts.
- R/G Mana-Ramp (the one that runs Avalanche Riders, Acid-Moss, etc.)
Mediocre
- Faeries: here I find that it's a matter of who lands a Bitterblossom first, and how long you manage to keep going, especially after post-SB.
Favorable
- Most aggro matchups; you end up slaughtering their beats and out-tempoing them.
To be honest, I haven't done enough testing yet, so some of these matchups may need some fixing. Hopefully some of the former MBC thread members will correct/affirm/deny/etc. any of my assessments.
---
On a separate note, regarding Murderous Redcap...it seems okay, but the fact of the matter is that the four-slot is already clogged as is. Damns, 'lash, Tendrils, etc. The effect is mediocre, I feel. A CitP Shock, followed by a CitP ping is really mediocre, if anything. You've got better options in either Profane choosing life loss and fear to push through for the win or a straight-faced Corrupt (for the decks that use it, I've thought of it to be too slow in retrospect.) Heck, even Demigod of Revenge fits in the last bits of pain.
Obviously, opinions welcome.
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
Hollywood dictates a new thread?
I said on the last
It cost less to get in play than Icy does, though it cost more to activate but.... You can put it out on turn 2 so your not sitting around with it in your hand for 4 turns. This means running 3-4 is not so bad as compared with Manipulator, which means your gonna see often.
I don`t think its the greatest card by any stretch but it almost seems necessary and I can`t see it being useless every really.
Pay 2 put it on the board and now
EDIT: Pretty much a new Standard metagame was defined, so cleanup was inevitable. I like it better this way...wish we could've kept the old thread, but this still works.
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
Slaughter pact seems to work good against alot of the popular decks and would also let us pull a few surprises.
Extirpate helps a lot against things that are hard to dispose of in the first place.
I think that 4x Thoughtseize and 4x Extirpate are a must. It's the only way to manage some cards.
4x Bitterblossom is a must IMO too. It helps us stall longer than we should be able too.
While Tendrils of Corruption is okay in this deck some times its too slow for its effect....
As for warhammer its a great card but it requires something that you don't always have...
With that into consideration, I have come up with this...
18 Swamp (1)
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Leechridden Swamp
4 Desert
// Creatures
4 Dusk Urchins
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
4 Thoughtseize
3 Slaughter Pact
2 Damnation
3 Extirpate
2 Profane Command
3 Bitterblossom
2 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Beseech the Queen
2 Damnation
2 Profane Command
1 Extirpate
4 Bottle Gnomes
3 Mind Shatter
3 Tormod's Crypt
Comments? Questions? Additional thoughts?
Any Ideas on how to make this deck get a faster grip?
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
I realize that my deck needs work and that is a WIP as always. But I do find that my deck works well. Here's what I have so far.
20 Swamp
2 L. Swamp
2 Quicksand
Creatures
4 Korlash
4 Demigod of Revenge
2 Tombstalker
Spells/Artifacts
4 Terror
4 Nameless Inversersion
3 Eyeblight's Ending
4 Damnation
3 Tendrills of Corruption
2 Corrupt
2 Loxodon Warhammer
3 BtQ
1 Sudden Death
4 Fate Transfer (I find this great against wither)
4 Scuttlemutt (Pro-black creatures be dammned, terror universals, certain auros lose their target)
4 Fairy Macabre (I don't have the extirpates)
3 ...
Any ideas?
I also never know what cards to side out for what?
Standard
BGDamn AggroBG
RGWild DragonsRG
Time Spiral Block
BRPing and DieBR
Desert>Quicksand
Tombstalker is sub-par most of the time.
Slaughter Pact > Eyeblight's Ending
IMO 4 MD Thoughtseize 4 Extirpate are a must.
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
NYC DARK KNIGHTS
cred to perv 90210 for the incredible sig.