Actually that list a bit screwed up. +2 Terramorphic Expanse -2 Swamp. It's almost a card draw on it's own...it is so much less likely you will see lands once you start to pull all of them out of your deck. (via Crucible of Worlds) I'm just not sure where are a card draw engine could fit in. I sorely miss Horizon Canopy. I ran mono black before it rotated, and with Crucible of Worlds I could get extra draws when I needed them. I really hate Dusk Urchins, I think it stinks. But I can't think of any other way to draw. On the note of Loxodon Warhammer, you could take out 1 Profane Command, and 1 Murderous Redcap.
Havent been on the forums for a while, since i cant play my MBC, since well.... it loses to everything that runs well. I see some weird card choices ppl are posting, like quicksand... and tar friend? really? It just upsets me that everytime i play vs RDW , fae, or lark im praying they get screwed or flooded so i can win 2 out of 3, or i have a GOD draw. I could do it b4 rotation, not anymore.. and ive tried! I think that the new B/w deck is also a huge threat, and what this deck wants to be. Sad... waiting for conflux for MBC to be good again. Till then ill be attending the limited formats on FNM... or playing something else.
Don't diss Quicksand. If you think it's bad, then you are wrong.
^flawed logic. it's only good to a certain point. I'd much rather use it when dealing with FoD or random little annoyances*cough* most kith*cough*. and I can see a few niche uses. but honestly,doesn't black have plenty of ways to kill creatures already? and in a much more all encompassing way?
I played this deck for quite some time, and enjoyed mono black a ton. in a meta that's aggro heavy and lacking fae, it can become a wrecking ball. but lack of real mass removal has severly hurt this deck. you can throw in all the cherry picking hand disuption you want, but it's still not going to completely answer the needs of the format.
I say move over to undead panda. with Path To exile coming in alara, white's getting the boost that black direly needs.
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Ive been throwing some mono-black ideas of my own around. Take a look at some of my thoughts.
4 Raven's Crime (Thoughsieze for you rich people)
4 Distress
4 Dusk Urchins (Awesome Card)
2 Ashling, the Extinguisher
2 Oona, Queen of the Fae
2 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Unmake
4 Eyeblight's Ending
2 Icy Manipulator (Deals with pro black creatures)
Its missing the early game efficiant creatures. Im not sure what to put, but as for finishers Ashling and Oona are awesome especially with a hammer equiped. Help me figure out some more beaters.
Ive been throwing some mono-black ideas of my own around. Take a look at some of my thoughts.
4 Raven's Crime (Thoughsieze for you rich people)
4 Distress
4 Dusk Urchins (Awesome Card)
2 Ashling, the Extinguisher
2 Oona, Queen of the Fae
2 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Unmake
4 Eyeblight's Ending
2 Icy Manipulator (Deals with pro black creatures)
Its missing the early game efficiant creatures. Im not sure what to put, but as for finishers Ashling and Oona are awesome especially with a hammer equiped. Help me figure out some more beaters.
In my mono black build i played viscera dragger for a turn 2 card draw(cycle) then a surprise attack when least expected. Some people seem to forget the unearth ability and its fun to unearth a 3/3 guy and strap the warhammer on him.
That is a good play. As a common, that guy is underrated IMO. But him alone cant carry the load in the begining, Im thinking of adding Oona's Prowler which fits nicely with the discard theme.
What you really seem to be missing is land recursion. I really like being able to retrace a swamp, then play it with Crucible of Worlds. It gives you a nearly infinite amount of discard. Also, on what was said about the Terramorphic Expanse, pulling land cards out of your deck rather than your hand every turn is nice, allowing the lands in you hand to become Raven's Crimes, and everything else you draw should be spells. I would play Nameless Inversion as well, either sb or md, to take care of black or artifact dudes. It's not going to do you much against Oona, though. Maybe Bone Splinters saccing either a Dusk Urchins or a Redcap so you loose little?
@kevin521 ide say atleast one more mind shatter main, and if you have them +4 bitterblossems. Dusk urchens is a really bad card in my opinion because the only thing you can do is hope it doesnt fall prey to the condems,o-rings, or unmakes. ide say graveborn muse is the best option (especially if u run them along with mutavault, activate itself durning your upkeep before the muse triggers)
The crucible of worlds + terrimorphic expance is a must in this deck with ravens crime, and i would definately look into the quicksand with that too as mentioned earlier in this thread.
though i think that is a discard theme and not really mono-black control (similar but really not the same at all).
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......and another little llama
fuzzy llama
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May 16 2009 - I go 4-2 drop at standard regionals - G/W tokens is fun as hell to play lol.
I did a little testing against my friend with his control decks and It basically got down to, if i land a Cunning lethamancer or scepter, his chances of winning went wayyy down. The only cards i'm really not sure about are oona's prowler and Tripnoose. Oona's prowler was a letdown because it was basically a discard outlet if they were low, and it wasn't certain. As opposed to Mancer who discards every turn. And Tripnoose was for Collosus, But i dunno what else to put. Maybe pithing needle?
No offense, Toazt, but what you posted is a lot closer to an Esper Control deck. Since, you know, Mono-Black Control should be Mono-Black.
@Darkspawn: I am really not seeing the Extractor Demon seeing play in anything outside of a crazy combo deck that can abuse the ability. Although he does have the Unearth ability, right now Demigod is just better. It's more annoying to players who rely on counterspells, and it comes out a turn earlier.
You left out the two best black cards in Standard :P! Definitely add four Bitterblossom and four Thoughtseize...unless you are playing on a budget, then I understand why they are not in there.
Murderous Redcap is great sometimes, especially against Kithkin, usually getting at least a 2 for 1, with a potential 4 for 1, but unfortunately, it's not that amazing in some other match-up's. I'd probably cut the numbers down a little. Maybe run 2 main and 2 side?
Midnight Banshee is a rather unimpressive finisher. I suggest taking a page out of RDW's book and using 4x Demigod of Revenge. Of course, that turns it into a more midrange control build, but I find that in today's environment, MBC stands the best chance when it plays as a midrange. You don't have a super-powerful finisher (Cruel Ultimatum), nor can you counter a late-game bomb, so you want to gain control early, and keep it just long enough to win. Demigod helps with that quite a bit.
I like Necroskitter, and he definitely plays well on defense in Kithkin and other aggro match-ups, but he is all but useless against control and fae. Have you considered Dusk Urchins as a 3 drop? I am currently testing him...I really don't like him all that much, especially with all of the Condemns, Unmakes, Bant Charms, Oblivion Rings, and the soon to be Path to Exiles running around. The way I see it, though, is that if they are going to use those cards on my Dusk Urchins, then my Demigods are a little safer.
Is 23 lands proving to be enough? I run 24, and I'm actually wanting to find room for a 24th. I'll post my list for reference, if you would like to see it and compare:
hahaha yeah i would add four Bitterblossom and four Thoughtseize but im on a budget :(... great cards tho and will try to get a hold of some.
Redcap is good in my area because i face a lot of aggro in T2 thats why i run four.
Midnight Banshee, yet again im on a budget but i like the idea of running it along side of Necroskitter... ill test it and see how it plays.
One thing i forgot to post and that is that i havnt got this build yet im just looking for ideas but i do want to play it now... looks very tuff
Thanks for the advise and i might look for one more swamp, probably take out a Shriekmaw.
I was wondering, how does everyone work around story circle, runed halo and esper charm (to destroy everlasting torment)?
Thats not that simple, but i mean u just use things they cant name... like BB tokens... or Profane command that goes around Story circle... or discard it w/ seize.
The question you asked is the OLD age question, how does black get rid of enchantments.... you basicly splash white or you discard them. Pithing needle helps as well.
But then again, no competative deck really plays those cards right now.
I was looking over the spoiler and the 7/7 for 3 looks great, i hope they print some massive discard aka stupor or sumthing. Imma try running that guy in Legacy Mono black w/ Tombstalker... oh yes!
Thats not that simple, but i mean u just use things they cant name... like BB tokens... or Profane command that goes around Story circle... or discard it w/ seize.
The question you asked is the OLD age question, how does black get rid of enchantments.... you basicly splash white or you discard them. Pithing needle helps as well.
But then again, no competative deck really plays those cards right now.
I was looking over the spoiler and the 7/7 for 3 looks great, i hope they print some massive discard aka stupor or sumthing. Imma try running that guy in Legacy Mono black w/ Tombstalker... oh yes!
Thoughtseize, a fast clock, and multiple threats. If they name Stillmoon, you Corrupt/Profane/BB them. Repeat, etc. Story Circle is harder, but Profane does the trick, and BB will add up eventually. Either way, Stillmoon plays havoc against white.
I don't like the 7/7 guys, unless they print some much better discard spells. And even then, I'm not so sure...
Also, why are you running this guy in legacy MBC? And if you are running Pox/MBA, I think there are more consistent options than this guy.
Seems interesting enough that I might give MBC a chance, but lately my favorite archtype has been disapointingly uncompetitive. I really hope that it can come back. But... I haven't had much time for MtG since I got married and moved. So testing and results won't be coming from me for awhile.
Seems interesting enough that I might give MBC a chance, but lately my favorite archtype has been disapointingly uncompetitive. I really hope that it can come back. But... I haven't had much time for MtG since I got married and moved. So testing and results won't be coming from me for awhile.
I was thinking the same thing... I saw Nyxathid and thought, "Here's the card I've been looking for!".
Very easy to make a deck around. Cunning Lethemancer, Liliana Vess, Raven's Crime and/or Distress, Megrim, maybe even a couple Howling Mines so they have cards for you to discard... otherwise you've got a hand full of spells you can't cast. Then, of course, the MBC staple cards to fill in the rest...
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Thanks to spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios for the awesome banner and avatar!
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^flawed logic. it's only good to a certain point. I'd much rather use it when dealing with FoD or random little annoyances*cough* most kith*cough*. and I can see a few niche uses. but honestly,doesn't black have plenty of ways to kill creatures already? and in a much more all encompassing way?
I played this deck for quite some time, and enjoyed mono black a ton. in a meta that's aggro heavy and lacking fae, it can become a wrecking ball. but lack of real mass removal has severly hurt this deck. you can throw in all the cherry picking hand disuption you want, but it's still not going to completely answer the needs of the format.
I say move over to undead panda. with Path To exile coming in alara, white's getting the boost that black direly needs.
Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!
Actual Truth:
4 Raven's Crime (Thoughsieze for you rich people)
4 Distress
4 Dusk Urchins (Awesome Card)
2 Ashling, the Extinguisher
2 Oona, Queen of the Fae
2 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Unmake
4 Eyeblight's Ending
2 Icy Manipulator (Deals with pro black creatures)
Its missing the early game efficiant creatures. Im not sure what to put, but as for finishers Ashling and Oona are awesome especially with a hammer equiped. Help me figure out some more beaters.
Stillmoon Cavalier
Bitterblossom
Fleshbag Marauder
Fulminator Mage
Hidden Horror
Inkfathom Infiltrator
Hypnotic Specter
Nip Gwyillion
Oona's Prowler
Phyrexian Rager
Relentless Rats
I wouldn't play Ashenmoor Gouger, since blocking is usually a big part of this deck in the early game.
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
In my mono black build i played viscera dragger for a turn 2 card draw(cycle) then a surprise attack when least expected. Some people seem to forget the unearth ability and its fun to unearth a 3/3 guy and strap the warhammer on him.
Edit: This will be my FNM deck btw.
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Dusk Urchins
4 Murderous Redcaps
4 Shriekmaw
Spells:
4 Raven's Crime
4 Distress
3 Terror
2 Beseech the Queen
1 Mind Shatter
2 Profane Command
3 Corrupt
1 Loxodon Warhammer
24 Swamp
4 Deathmark
4 Cruel Edict
4 Unmake
3 Infest
What you really seem to be missing is land recursion. I really like being able to retrace a swamp, then play it with Crucible of Worlds. It gives you a nearly infinite amount of discard. Also, on what was said about the Terramorphic Expanse, pulling land cards out of your deck rather than your hand every turn is nice, allowing the lands in you hand to become Raven's Crimes, and everything else you draw should be spells. I would play Nameless Inversion as well, either sb or md, to take care of black or artifact dudes. It's not going to do you much against Oona, though. Maybe Bone Splinters saccing either a Dusk Urchins or a Redcap so you loose little?
Legacy: WUB Doomsday
Standard: WUB Reanimator
The crucible of worlds + terrimorphic expance is a must in this deck with ravens crime, and i would definately look into the quicksand with that too as mentioned earlier in this thread.
though i think that is a discard theme and not really mono-black control (similar but really not the same at all).
...there's a llama
......and another little llama
fuzzy llama
...funny llama
......llama llama
duck
May 16 2009 - I go 4-2 drop at standard regionals - G/W tokens is fun as hell to play lol.
Any thoughts on the 5/5 Flying demon?
4 Fetid Heath
3 Swamp
2 Caves of kolios
3 Mutavault
4 Reflecting pool
2 underground river
3 sunken ruins
3 arcane sanctum
Creatures
3 Cunning lethemancer
4 Oona's prowler
4 Nyxathid
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Profane Command
3 Scepter of Fugue
4 Bitterblossom
4 Thoughtseize
1 Mind Shatter
1 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Esper Charm
2 Trip Noose
3 Wrath of God
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
3 Moonglove extract
3 Oblivion Ring
I did a little testing against my friend with his control decks and It basically got down to, if i land a Cunning lethamancer or scepter, his chances of winning went wayyy down. The only cards i'm really not sure about are oona's prowler and Tripnoose. Oona's prowler was a letdown because it was basically a discard outlet if they were low, and it wasn't certain. As opposed to Mancer who discards every turn. And Tripnoose was for Collosus, But i dunno what else to put. Maybe pithing needle?
Thanks to .toRRent for the sig!
@Darkspawn: I am really not seeing the Extractor Demon seeing play in anything outside of a crazy combo deck that can abuse the ability. Although he does have the Unearth ability, right now Demigod is just better. It's more annoying to players who rely on counterspells, and it comes out a turn earlier.
I didn't consider it to be like that because of it's basically monoblack Save 8 cards.
I remember earlier(wayy earlier i think) in this thread someone was saying that It's still monoblack in essence even though it splashes a color.
I figured it was like that. My bad.
Thanks to .toRRent for the sig!
3x Leechridden Swamp
3x Necroskitter
4x Murderous Redcap
4x Shriekmaw
3x Midnight Banshee
4x Unmake
3x Beseech the Queen
3x Corrupt
3x Beacon of Unrest
3x Profane Command
2x Liliana Vess
Murderous Redcap is great sometimes, especially against Kithkin, usually getting at least a 2 for 1, with a potential 4 for 1, but unfortunately, it's not that amazing in some other match-up's. I'd probably cut the numbers down a little. Maybe run 2 main and 2 side?
Midnight Banshee is a rather unimpressive finisher. I suggest taking a page out of RDW's book and using 4x Demigod of Revenge. Of course, that turns it into a more midrange control build, but I find that in today's environment, MBC stands the best chance when it plays as a midrange. You don't have a super-powerful finisher (Cruel Ultimatum), nor can you counter a late-game bomb, so you want to gain control early, and keep it just long enough to win. Demigod helps with that quite a bit.
I like Necroskitter, and he definitely plays well on defense in Kithkin and other aggro match-ups, but he is all but useless against control and fae. Have you considered Dusk Urchins as a 3 drop? I am currently testing him...I really don't like him all that much, especially with all of the Condemns, Unmakes, Bant Charms, Oblivion Rings, and the soon to be Path to Exiles running around. The way I see it, though, is that if they are going to use those cards on my Dusk Urchins, then my Demigods are a little safer.
Is 23 lands proving to be enough? I run 24, and I'm actually wanting to find room for a 24th. I'll post my list for reference, if you would like to see it and compare:
22 Swamp
2 Leechridden Swamp
Creatures
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Dusk Urchins
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
2 Murderous Redcap
2 Razormane Masticore
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bitterblossom
3 Unmake
3 Beseech the Queen
2 Corrupt
2 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Infest
1 Pithing Needle
3 Memory Plunder
3 Infest
3 Terror
2 Mind Shatter
2 Trip Noose
1 Pithing Needle
1 Unmake
Redcap is good in my area because i face a lot of aggro in T2 thats why i run four.
Midnight Banshee, yet again im on a budget but i like the idea of running it along side of Necroskitter... ill test it and see how it plays.
One thing i forgot to post and that is that i havnt got this build yet im just looking for ideas but i do want to play it now... looks very tuff
Thanks for the advise and i might look for one more swamp, probably take out a Shriekmaw.
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Thats not that simple, but i mean u just use things they cant name... like BB tokens... or Profane command that goes around Story circle... or discard it w/ seize.
The question you asked is the OLD age question, how does black get rid of enchantments.... you basicly splash white or you discard them. Pithing needle helps as well.
But then again, no competative deck really plays those cards right now.
I was looking over the spoiler and the 7/7 for 3 looks great, i hope they print some massive discard aka stupor or sumthing. Imma try running that guy in Legacy Mono black w/ Tombstalker... oh yes!
Thoughtseize, a fast clock, and multiple threats. If they name Stillmoon, you Corrupt/Profane/BB them. Repeat, etc. Story Circle is harder, but Profane does the trick, and BB will add up eventually. Either way, Stillmoon plays havoc against white.
I don't like the 7/7 guys, unless they print some much better discard spells. And even then, I'm not so sure...
Also, why are you running this guy in legacy MBC? And if you are running Pox/MBA, I think there are more consistent options than this guy.
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Seems interesting enough that I might give MBC a chance, but lately my favorite archtype has been disapointingly uncompetitive. I really hope that it can come back. But... I haven't had much time for MtG since I got married and moved. So testing and results won't be coming from me for awhile.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
I was thinking the same thing... I saw Nyxathid and thought, "Here's the card I've been looking for!".
Very easy to make a deck around.
Cunning Lethemancer, Liliana Vess, Raven's Crime and/or Distress, Megrim, maybe even a couple Howling Mines so they have cards for you to discard... otherwise you've got a hand full of spells you can't cast. Then, of course, the MBC staple cards to fill in the rest...