Well, Dregscape Zombie does not actually work since it will not be able to cycled. I mean, yeah, it might work, but it's not a double use card. I personally would prefer using Viscera Dragger over Dregscape Zombie. Yes, they're both black, they're both unearthable, but VD hits harder (hehe) and has a way to get in the graveyard on its own.
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[I was permabanned and all I got to show for it was .... well, nothing.]
Also, I don't understand what the age of the other thread and the devices used in it has to do with this thread. Self mill in that thread was a means to make consume spirit or banefire more powerful.In this thread, it is a device to fill the graveyard with unearth cards. I suppose G/W tokens and B/W tokens last season should have been fused because G/W tokens also used spectral procession+windbrisk heights as a key component? Who cares that one deck would be flipping overrun and the other zealous persecution. Right?
Wrong. It is foolish of you to tell me how self mill was used when I've been posting and playing with the crypt deck twice as long as you. Go read the thread .... (first post: 10-05-2009. First Self-Mill post: 10-21-2009.) Actually, since if you intended to do this on your own you could have done so by now, let me just do the work for you: Post # 213. Discussion of that deck went on into the 300s and has been mentioned throughout.
Bottom line here is that the question one asks when looking at the crypt is: what can I do with all that mana? And the thread that was already in place was seeking to answer that question. Crabs were mentioned, traumatize was mentioned, but those people in the thread just thought that control was way better in the current meta. Maybe it is. Maybe its not. Lets find out together.
@ Noctali7: Rite of replication is awesome. Imagine kicking it targeting a malakir bloodwitch. (someone in the control thread was doing that) Thats 2+3+4+5+6=20 damage. Convenient, huh? The problem is that its a dead card if it ends up in your graveyard... which it most likely will, considering this deck's plan.
Kathari Remnant is also great at first glance, especially post SB cause you cascade into more meaningful things. (ie spreading seas, duress) and it even gets the specter if you run it (which you should) I guess the main issue with him is that the deck is tight, and it needs unearths almost as much as black creatures. So if you are going to add the remnant, you have to either cut non-black creatures/spells or replace existing ones. I think the current ones are better when you consider their consistency in the deck. (ie B/1B: put a black creature from your hand into your GY and draw a card) Plus, he can only stop one blocker and only soak up 4 damage (w/o trample of course). I think I'd rather drop an immortal coil on turn 4. Considering that you've probably milled 15-20 cards by then I'm sure you could afford to block the fatty w/ crabs and remove 5-10 lands/useless spells vs blocking with remnant/ crabs and still taking damage on top of that from trample/other attackers.
Standard : BR Zombies Modern :
- Playing : Burn | Living End | Bant Eldrazi
- In Queue : ???
- Building : Death's Shadow |
- Sidelined : RUG Scapeshift | Lantern Control | GR Tron | Ad Nauseam | UWR Control | Dredge | Eldrazi Tron | UB Whir Tezzerator
@ Noctali7: Rite of replication is awesome. Imagine kicking it targeting a malakir bloodwitch. (someone in the control thread was doing that) Thats 2+3+4+5+6=20 damage.
Assuming you control the Bloodwitch, it's 30 damage. They all enter play simultaneously, and only then do the effect go on stack. Then they resolve, and they all see the 6 vampires. 5x6 = 30. It even kills if you don't control the bloodwitch.
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Wrong. It is foolish of you to tell me how self mill was used when I've been posting and playing with the crypt deck twice as long as you. Go read the thread .... (first post: 10-05-2009. First Self-Mill post: 10-21-2009.) Actually, since if you intended to do this on your own you could have done so by now, let me just do the work for you: Post # 213. Discussion of that deck went on into the 300s and has been mentioned throughout.
Bottom line here is that the question one asks when looking at the crypt is: what can I do with all that mana? And the thread that was already in place was seeking to answer that question. Crabs were mentioned, traumatize was mentioned, but those people in the thread just thought that control was way better in the current meta. Maybe it is. Maybe its not. Lets find out together.
@ Noctali7: Rite of replication is awesome. Imagine kicking it targeting a malakir bloodwitch. (someone in the control thread was doing that) Thats 2+3+4+5+6=20 damage. Convenient, huh? The problem is that its a dead card if it ends up in your graveyard... which it most likely will, considering this deck's plan.
Kathari Remnant is also great at first glance, especially post SB cause you cascade into more meaningful things. (ie spreading seas, duress) and it even gets the specter if you run it (which you should) I guess the main issue with him is that the deck is tight, and it needs unearths almost as much as black creatures. So if you are going to add the remnant, you have to either cut non-black creatures/spells or replace existing ones. I think the current ones are better when you consider their consistency in the deck. (ie B/1B: put a black creature from your hand into your GY and draw a card) Plus, he can only stop one blocker and only soak up 4 damage (w/o trample of course). I think I'd rather drop an immortal coil on turn 4. Considering that you've probably milled 15-20 cards by then I'm sure you could afford to block the fatty w/ crabs and remove 5-10 lands/useless spells vs blocking with remnant/ crabs and still taking damage on top of that from trample/other attackers.
I believe you mean that you have been playing "a" crypt deck. And post 213 is not a very good example to bring up, as:
A. if you had bothered to read the thread, you would find that I have clearly read that post, as phoenix's list is on the front page and has been there for some time now.
B. That post is a proto-type of unearth combo, and in fact did not belong in the Crypt control thread. Which is why I chose to recognize his list and contribution by putting it in the first post.
also, if you could refrain from calling me or anyone foolish...
Edit: Nonprophet: You are correct! we are on the internet. However, I never "wrote off" dregscape zombie. I asked what in the deck naarou could replace it with that would be worth it. I understand it can be used as a blocker and unearths cheaply.
What about Brakwater Elemental as a potential blocker against aggro? He isn't exactly a Plumeveil but 2U for a 4/4 with no evasion isn't half bad. We already play Viscera Dragger but the elemental is much better on defense I thinks...
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In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
It would be, if it was black. Too bad it isn't. The black creature count is low enough as-is.
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and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
It would be, if it was black. Too bad it isn't. The black creature count is low enough as-is.
It was never meant for the maindeck. Just as a possible roadblock against some of the faster decks out there that can still attack with the rest of your crew when the time is right.
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In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
I believe this is the tightest version of the deck I have yet seen. (could easily be wrong, i guess)
I tried the Jacob list, but found that all too often, I had an excess of mana but nothing to really do with it. The 2 Corpse Connoissuer, while slow, make that more productive, as you can use the excess mana that would otherwise go unused in the "turn before the kill" that Jacob's described to do a myriad of things, including getting an extra rats/specter out to fully dump their hand, or get a missing demon, to allow for self mill at the end of that turn, or in the case of that turn actually having all the pieces but not enough mana, getting a(nother) fatestitcher so you can actually turn that turn into the one you kill them.
The Connoisseur allows the deck to have more possibilities, more options, more outs, more ways to kill, an effective back-up plan and allows the deck to run fluidly when it otherwise would not.
As for the SB, I found Flashfreese to be simply better than Deathmark. It can serve the same purpose, and also allows for a backup plan against Jund hate in case the Spreading Seas plan doesnt Work, and they get too much red mana to disrupt. (they run much more red mana than you do Seas, after all, and all they need is R for Jund Charm) and 1 Leviathan is all that is needed in side, as you can tutor it with the MD Connoiseurs. A 4th Beetle in its place for the worst MU has been working better.
I also remember I heard of a pre zendikar version that also ran Drastic Revelation.
I can see that Drastic Revelation will cause hand distruption against your opponent but I think Traumatize is a lot better 5CC spell.
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I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity and boycotting overpriced singles. Sig this to join the cause for a more affordable Magic the Gathering.
hey guys, i have a question... this question has been raised a few times, but no real efforts have been made to make it answered: How do you sideboard this deck? I'm really bad with boarding, so I usually board really conservatively (if at all), but I for one would like to have a better grasp on what to take out for individual MUs. So how do you sideboard?
Tap for lots of mana, draw out your key finishing pieces, and at worst, EoT discard and next turn swing ftw.
the general consensus (as highlighted in the worlds video) is that x-spells take away from your reliability as a combo deck. there's a more control-oriented build for that (labeled "crypt combo," there's a link on the front page). generally, the above roll is played by extractor demons and connoiseurs fetching extractors.
hey guys, i have a question... this question has been raised a few times, but no real efforts have been made to make it answered: How do you sideboard this deck? I'm really bad with boarding, so I usually board really conservatively (if at all), but I for one would like to have a better grasp on what to take out for individual MUs. So how do you sideboard?
Im playing almost an exact replica of the Jacob's list. So far I've been doing roughly:
It really sucks siding out black creatures, but everything that's not a black creature is pretty important. I'm considering going to 1 fatestitcher, and 1 corpse Con to help with the count, it can also find demons and Ked (or the stitcher).
You could side out a Grim discovery instead of a ponder (Siding out 1 - 2 discoveries in certain matchups might be a good idea to conserve black creatures).
The only problem I see with siding out discoveries, is I have sometimes been in a situation where I need to get a crypt out of my grave to win, and I have to stall until I topdeck one.
On another note, I'm running 18 lands and four of the island/swamp cyclers (Jhessian Zombies I believe is their name). I find them helpful as they up the count of black creatures while helping get those islands for unearthing fatestitchers. I'm wanting to up the count to three myself (I did not realize I only had two however) as they make it much easier to go off.
I played three games and won one; it was just a bunch of quick single-eliminations (although the third one we were all just tired and most everyone else dropped). Everytime I dropped a crypt, I won the game; but I've found there is a point where you just need to stop milling yourself. I ended up dumping all my swamps/crypts into my grave and having only one crypt left in my library of ~25ish. That was the most depressing Grim Discovery I've ever held. As to the reason I want to up the count to three fatestitchers, is I played against a Jund deck who I locked down his red for around five to six turns (Opening hand spreading seas; played on one triple land. Later I drew another and dropped it on another one of his triple lands), I had the crypt, I had all my islands...but I needed a single fatestitcher in my grave so I could play the crypt and untap it the same turn. Turns out I was being smart, because he held a ruinblaster in his opening hand. Oh well.
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Tap for lots of mana, draw out your key finishing pieces, and at worst, EoT discard and next turn swing ftw.
That sounds really awesome. I've been struggling with card draw this deck, and your heart sinks when you go turn 1 crab, turn two fetch, crack, tome scour, look at your eleven cards and see grim discovery - grim discovery - crypt - crypt - etc
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BB Mono-Black Control BB RW Boros Bushwhacker RW
:):) New Player, so chill out if I've said anything stupid and you feel like flaming :):)
Bought the deck on MTGO for about 30tix (only has 2 fetches, sadly). After about 20 solitaire runthroughs, I came to the conclusion that Tome Scour is much better than Traumatize (I can consistently cast Scour, and never cast Traumatize profitably). More Fatestitchers were better, as I played 3 and had one game where I hit 64 mana on turn 7. I played 2 Corpse Connoisseur, it worked well, netting either Fatestitcher, Extractor Demon, or Rotting Rats (an MVP card in its own right). Kederekt Leviathan didn't seem to be huge, but I can see where it could come in handy.
I played one match, against (surprise!) Jund, winning 2-0. Game one, we played a mostly noninteractive game, and I unearthed 32 power worth of creatures , which even a last-ditch Bituminous Blast into Terminate couldn't stop the beatdown. Game 2 saw me draw 3 Hedron Crabs and 2 Grim Discoveries, rendering his 3 Lightning Bolts useless. I used some Rats to force him into topdeck mode, and found myself racing a 4/4 Thrinax. I hardcast a Demon, then cast an Architects of Will to keep my opponent from drawing anything other than land.
Anyways, I like the deck, it runs nicely, far more smoothly than it looks like it would on paper. It's a combo that can go off again after 'fizzling'. I assume it has trouble with Boros and Turbofog, though, yes?
turbofog helps you put your own lib into grave and you can just mill them before they mill u with extractor demon
i've also found myself without any black mana when using the fetches, thinking of cutting some for more swamps b/c im dredging all my swamps
i'm using the same deck and mana base as Jacobs except with 1 ked, 1 fate and 1 corpse MD
also, how did u still have a arch in hand, i never end up having one in the end lol, cycling
Sometimes casting the architects is better than the cycle, check out and 'shaft' your opponents next coupla turns and make a blocker is (admittedly rarely) sometimes much better than just drawing a card.
Question to all: Was turbofog helping me put cards in my 'yard particular to that build I had a spat with or is it universal in any build? I mean, he traumatised me pretty badly, which actually only helped me.
Also, my clanboss says:
The problem is that it isn't /that/ consistent.
And is killed by one card. Relic of Progenitus. (Which is run)
Also, I don't understand what the age of the other thread and the devices used in it has to do with this thread. Self mill in that thread was a means to make consume spirit or banefire more powerful. In this thread, it is a device to fill the graveyard with unearth cards. I suppose G/W tokens and B/W tokens last season should have been fused because G/W tokens also used spectral procession+windbrisk heights as a key component? Who cares that one deck would be flippingoverrun and the other zealous persecution. Right?
I believe you mean that you have been playing "a" crypt deck. And post 213 is not a very good example to bring up, as:
A. if you had bothered to read the thread, you would find that I have clearly read that post, as phoenix's list is on the front page and has been there for some time now.
B. That post is a proto-type of unearth combo, and in fact did not belong in the Crypt control thread. Which is why I chose to recognize his list and contribution by putting it in the first post.
also, if you could refrain from calling me or anyone foolish...
I think we're starting to get into a little war here... Let me try and clear things up:
You have attempted to tell me the mechanics of a deck that I have been playing twice as long as you have. Self Mill was never used as a means to make a consume spirit of banefire more powerful.Consume spirit was in that build as an alternative win condition should unearthing everything prove to be a bust. It used all the same unearth creatures this thread's deck is using. The point of milling yourself was so you could unearth a ton of guys and swing FTW or mill out your opponent in one shot. I sleeved up the physical version of the deck and played it for a week of tournaments and decided that self-mill using traumatize was not a consistent/effective/powerfull enough way to use the crypt's mana. Crabs+tome scour+grim discovery is much faster and more reliable.
You have made subtle attacks on the validity of my statments, further you have insulted me. I do not appreciate that. You need to get off your high horse and stop being the big shot who started the thread and just contribute to the deck like everyone else.
Being obsessive over the difference between Dredge and Control is pointless. They are clearly two different strategies. No one is disagreeing there. The point that myself and others have been trying to make is that the other crypt thread has been around longer and already spent time discussing the dredge/unearth idea. They may be different archetypes, but there is benefit from discussing the deck all in one thread. Honestly, I think the idea of using the crypt as a means of control has died out. BRwas the only really competitive option, since mono Ba BUsimply lacked the tools necessary to survive in this aggro meta long enough to kick a huge consume spirit. At this point, that thread is talking about jacobs build. It just uses the crypt more effectively. From here on out, I doubt we'll see any mention of crypt control. If it is still talked about, it will only be on the level of FNM and casual play.
Remember: you are not the all powerful thread creator. We are all contributing and you're not the only one using crypt to unearth a ton of guys. Just because you put the thread up doesn't make you the authority on the deck. Really, none of us are. All I'm asking is that you show a little respect and deference to people who have been discussing the topic longer than you.
Having said all that... I want to say a few words about the SB
Immortal Coil is amazing. To bad its not 1BB Compare it to Deathmark. Seems subpar to the coil since the coil can be used over and over. Deathmark on the other hand is a one shot deal. Both are sorcery speed, both stop you from getting hit by their fatties. The question I'm asking myself is what is it that I'm going to be hitting w/ deathmark before T4? (3 if you're super lucky to drop a crypt turn 2 and make 4 mana on turn 3 after dropping a land to mill/cycle at least 4 creatures) I really can't think of much that would be such a threat as to need a deathmark. Odds of triggered ability artifact hate game 2 is slim to none, so the only time I see deathmark being good is game 3 after they've seen the coil... if they SB hate for it and you switch it up. I feel like I'd almost rather just have 3-4 coils in the SB and use the other 2-3 slots for pithing needle to stop ajani/random relics.
What do you all think about Soul manipulation? Soul Manipulation is like... a poor man's crypic (we talked about this in the old crypt thread) Might as well read: 1UBB:Counter target creature spell and draw a card. Except its better, you get to pay one of the B at a more convenient time. (maybe the next turn.... or the turn after that) You could also fetch crabs/rats to disrupt their hand. I guess it completely depends on the meta...
Flashfreeze is just awesome. Should it be SB? I guess if deathmark is coming out, I wonder if I should be using soul manipulation or flashfreeze. Or maybe something else? Other thoughts on SB please.
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Standard : BR Zombies Modern :
- Playing : Burn | Living End | Bant Eldrazi
- In Queue : ???
- Building : Death's Shadow |
- Sidelined : RUG Scapeshift | Lantern Control | GR Tron | Ad Nauseam | UWR Control | Dredge | Eldrazi Tron | UB Whir Tezzerator
Do *not* side out Rotting Rats vs jund. The fact that they generate card advantage and slow down them is really important, and casting them early on to chump is a good way to slow them down even more. And you need them to dump your hand down.
Against jund, I'd rather side out Fatestitchers. Jund isn't very fast deck (The new decks with rampant growth being even worse.) and I often find myself rather unearthing creatures as they get to the yard to keep up the beats. Waiting for a big turn to go off is just about begging to get Jund Charmed.
Ultimately, though, I've yet to have serious problems vs Jund anyway. I'd go as far as to say it is one of the easiest matchups. I am not even sure if having Spreading Seas in the sideboard is the right move. I'd rather devote more slots for Bushwhacker, Bant, Lightsaber etc.
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Rotting Rats oddly is the best card in the deck and I too can't imagine getting rid of it against Jund. It helps slow them down, feeds your graveyard and basically what you said.
I'm also not a huge fan of Spreading Seas since it does too little against the decks you want to neutralize with it. If you could reliably get 2-3 out that would be one thing, but one is usually it. My board now looks like:
Y'all can accuse me of blindly following the Pro, but I had never thought of Coil or Beetle they really are smart cards against the 1 deck I have publicly said was not winable. I've been playing it online, but we'll see how it goes this week in paper.
I think we're starting to get into a little war here... Let me try and clear things up:
You have attempted to tell me the mechanics of a deck that I have been playing twice as long as you have. Self Mill was never used as a means to make a consume spirit of banefire more powerful.Consume spirit was in that build as an alternative win condition should unearthing everything prove to be a bust. It used all the same unearth creatures this thread's deck is using. The point of milling yourself was so you could unearth a ton of guys and swing FTW or mill out your opponent in one shot. I sleeved up the physical version of the deck and played it for a week of tournaments and decided that self-mill using traumatize was not a consistent/effective/powerfull enough way to use the crypt's mana. Crabs+tome scour+grim discovery is much faster and more reliable.
You have made subtle attacks on the validity of my statments, further you have insulted me. I do not appreciate that. You need to get off your high horse and stop being the big shot who started the thread and just contribute to the deck like everyone else.
Being obsessive over the difference between Dredge and Control is pointless. They are clearly two different strategies. No one is disagreeing there. The point that myself and others have been trying to make is that the other crypt thread has been around longer and already spent time discussing the dredge/unearth idea. They may be different archetypes, but there is benefit from discussing the deck all in one thread. Honestly, I think the idea of using the crypt as a means of control has died out. BRwas the only really competitive option, since mono Ba BUsimply lacked the tools necessary to survive in this aggro meta long enough to kick a huge consume spirit. At this point, that thread is talking about jacobs build. It just uses the crypt more effectively. From here on out, I doubt we'll see any mention of crypt control. If it is still talked about, it will only be on the level of FNM and casual play.
Remember: you are not the all powerful thread creator. We are all contributing and you're not the only one using crypt to unearth a ton of guys. Just because you put the thread up doesn't make you the authority on the deck. Really, none of us are. All I'm asking is that you show a little respect and deference to people who have been discussing the topic longer than you.
Having said all that... I want to say a few words about the SB
Immortal Coil is amazing. To bad its not 1BB Compare it to Deathmark. Seems subpar to the coil since the coil can be used over and over. Deathmark on the other hand is a one shot deal. Both are sorcery speed, both stop you from getting hit by their fatties. The question I'm asking myself is what is it that I'm going to be hitting w/ deathmark before T4? (3 if you're super lucky to drop a crypt turn 2 and make 4 mana on turn 3 after dropping a land to mill/cycle at least 4 creatures) I really can't think of much that would be such a threat as to need a deathmark. Odds of triggered ability artifact hate game 2 is slim to none, so the only time I see deathmark being good is game 3 after they've seen the coil... if they SB hate for it and you switch it up. I feel like I'd almost rather just have 3-4 coils in the SB and use the other 2-3 slots for pithing needle to stop ajani/random relics.
What do you all think about Soul manipulation? Soul Manipulation is like... a poor man's crypic (we talked about this in the old crypt thread) Might as well read: 1UBB:Counter target creature spell and draw a card. Except its better, you get to pay one of the B at a more convenient time. (maybe the next turn.... or the turn after that) You could also fetch crabs/rats to disrupt their hand. I guess it completely depends on the meta...
Flashfreeze is just awesome. Should it be SB? I guess if deathmark is coming out, I wonder if I should be using soul manipulation or flashfreeze. Or maybe something else? Other thoughts on SB please.
This the last time I'm responding to a non-PM'd complaint. Such things have no place in the thread.
First, adressing the matter of percieved insults: I have not insulted you or implied an insult. The first sentence of the last post was just establishing how I was going to interpret that line of your post. I am not making a personal attack, just attempting to disbar an opinion which I think would be harmful. Which, unless I am mistaken, is part of how a discussion works.
Also, I have never claimed authority over the deck and it's contents. I have been trying to exercise some over the thread and it's contents, though. I have exactly 3 simple and loose rules that I ask participants read. Two are aimed at stopping backslide ideas like winning via X spells or by taking a control route (which helps differentiate the Crypt control deck from this one). The last one exists to keep the thread uncluttered of things which are not discussion of the deck and to help me improve the OP. You may noticed that recently I have not actually posted any "content". This is because at this point in the thread's maturity there is enough contribution that it is more helpful for me to try and keep the thread focused and it's informational section up to date.
At the moment, I am working on the sideboarding section, mostly using suggestions from the thread and from the tutorial video.
Finally, respect is a mutual relationship. When you entered the thread, the first thing you did was state that you believed that the threads should be merged. This was frustrating. I had just posted a page or so back about why this was a poor choice. I didn't even want to have to post that; merger discussion doesn't belong in this thread. It is a PM matter. The tone of my first response would have been a great deal more subdued if you hadn't entered the thread by breaking rule 3 directly after someone else did and I had to say the same thing to them.
I really don't enjoy doing this at all, but I am compelled due to how much I enjoy the deck and believe it has potential. Topics such as thread mergers only make cancerous posts and damage the integrity of the thread. I thank all the posters for not getting involved in the issue. It really should be in PM's...
So, back to sideboarding... last we were talking, Spreading Seas may not be as good as i seems? Why? It seems that, at least in theory, targeting their red mana just full out prevents them from doing much, especially when it comes to targeting your gy and crypts. And Fatestitchers: what's the right number?
also, how did u still have a arch in hand, i never end up having one in the end lol, cycling
Like I said, the combo never presented itself (I drew/milled no Crypts), so the game turned into a race. I cycled a Carabid to hit land 6 for Demon, but once He was in topdeck mode, it seemed like a bad idea NOT to cast the Architects, it locked him out.
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Wrong. It is foolish of you to tell me how self mill was used when I've been posting and playing with the crypt deck twice as long as you. Go read the thread .... (first post: 10-05-2009. First Self-Mill post: 10-21-2009.) Actually, since if you intended to do this on your own you could have done so by now, let me just do the work for you: Post # 213. Discussion of that deck went on into the 300s and has been mentioned throughout.
Bottom line here is that the question one asks when looking at the crypt is: what can I do with all that mana? And the thread that was already in place was seeking to answer that question. Crabs were mentioned, traumatize was mentioned, but those people in the thread just thought that control was way better in the current meta. Maybe it is. Maybe its not. Lets find out together.
@ Noctali7:
Rite of replication is awesome. Imagine kicking it targeting a malakir bloodwitch. (someone in the control thread was doing that) Thats 2+3+4+5+6=20 damage. Convenient, huh? The problem is that its a dead card if it ends up in your graveyard... which it most likely will, considering this deck's plan.
Kathari Remnant is also great at first glance, especially post SB cause you cascade into more meaningful things. (ie spreading seas, duress) and it even gets the specter if you run it (which you should) I guess the main issue with him is that the deck is tight, and it needs unearths almost as much as black creatures. So if you are going to add the remnant, you have to either cut non-black creatures/spells or replace existing ones. I think the current ones are better when you consider their consistency in the deck. (ie B/1B: put a black creature from your hand into your GY and draw a card) Plus, he can only stop one blocker and only soak up 4 damage (w/o trample of course). I think I'd rather drop an immortal coil on turn 4. Considering that you've probably milled 15-20 cards by then I'm sure you could afford to block the fatty w/ crabs and remove 5-10 lands/useless spells vs blocking with remnant/ crabs and still taking damage on top of that from trample/other attackers.
Modern :
- Playing : Burn | Living End | Bant Eldrazi
- In Queue : ???
- Building : Death's Shadow |
- Sidelined : RUG Scapeshift | Lantern Control | GR Tron | Ad Nauseam | UWR Control | Dredge | Eldrazi Tron | UB Whir Tezzerator
EDH : Active Decks
BUGrimgrin Tribal ZombiesBU | WGRUril, the MiststalkerWGR | XKozilek, Butcher of TruthX
My Trade List
Assuming you control the Bloodwitch, it's 30 damage. They all enter play simultaneously, and only then do the effect go on stack. Then they resolve, and they all see the 6 vampires. 5x6 = 30. It even kills if you don't control the bloodwitch.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I believe you mean that you have been playing "a" crypt deck. And post 213 is not a very good example to bring up, as:
A. if you had bothered to read the thread, you would find that I have clearly read that post, as phoenix's list is on the front page and has been there for some time now.
B. That post is a proto-type of unearth combo, and in fact did not belong in the Crypt control thread. Which is why I chose to recognize his list and contribution by putting it in the first post.
also, if you could refrain from calling me or anyone foolish...
Edit: Nonprophet: You are correct! we are on the internet. However, I never "wrote off" dregscape zombie. I asked what in the deck naarou could replace it with that would be worth it. I understand it can be used as a blocker and unearths cheaply.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
It was never meant for the maindeck. Just as a possible roadblock against some of the faster decks out there that can still attack with the rest of your crew when the time is right.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
4 Crypt of Agadeem
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Swamp
4 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
2 Marsh Flats
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Architects of Will
4 Viscera Dragger
4 Extractor Demon
4 Rotting Rats
4 Sedraxis Specter
2 Corpse Connoisseur
4 Hedron Crab
2 Fatestitcher
4 Tome Scour
3 Grim Discovery
4 Spreading Seas
3 Flashfreeze
1 Keterekt Leviathan
3 Immortal Coil
4 Blister Beetle
I believe this is the tightest version of the deck I have yet seen. (could easily be wrong, i guess)
I tried the Jacob list, but found that all too often, I had an excess of mana but nothing to really do with it. The 2 Corpse Connoissuer, while slow, make that more productive, as you can use the excess mana that would otherwise go unused in the "turn before the kill" that Jacob's described to do a myriad of things, including getting an extra rats/specter out to fully dump their hand, or get a missing demon, to allow for self mill at the end of that turn, or in the case of that turn actually having all the pieces but not enough mana, getting a(nother) fatestitcher so you can actually turn that turn into the one you kill them.
The Connoisseur allows the deck to have more possibilities, more options, more outs, more ways to kill, an effective back-up plan and allows the deck to run fluidly when it otherwise would not.
As for the SB, I found Flashfreese to be simply better than Deathmark. It can serve the same purpose, and also allows for a backup plan against Jund hate in case the Spreading Seas plan doesnt Work, and they get too much red mana to disrupt. (they run much more red mana than you do Seas, after all, and all they need is R for Jund Charm) and 1 Leviathan is all that is needed in side, as you can tutor it with the MD Connoiseurs. A 4th Beetle in its place for the worst MU has been working better.
Please comment.
I can see that Drastic Revelation will cause hand distruption against your opponent but I think Traumatize is a lot better 5CC spell.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
Tap for lots of mana, draw out your key finishing pieces, and at worst, EoT discard and next turn swing ftw.
the general consensus (as highlighted in the worlds video) is that x-spells take away from your reliability as a combo deck. there's a more control-oriented build for that (labeled "crypt combo," there's a link on the front page). generally, the above roll is played by extractor demons and connoiseurs fetching extractors.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
Im playing almost an exact replica of the Jacob's list. So far I've been doing roughly:
Jund: -4 Rot Rats, +4 Spreading Seas
Boros: -4 Sedraxis Spec -1 Ponder, +3 Blister Beetle, +2 Immortal Coil
G/W Emeria: -4 Rot Rats -1 Ponder, +3 Deathmark +2 Ked Leviathan
RDW: -3 Sedraxis, +3 Immortal Coil
Cascade Control: -1 Ponder, -2 Fatestitcher, -1 Tome Scour, +4 Spreading Seas
Nissa Monument: -2 Sedraxis Spec -2 Viscera Dragger, +2 Deathmark +2 Ked Leviathan
It really sucks siding out black creatures, but everything that's not a black creature is pretty important. I'm considering going to 1 fatestitcher, and 1 corpse Con to help with the count, it can also find demons and Ked (or the stitcher).
You could side out a Grim discovery instead of a ponder (Siding out 1 - 2 discoveries in certain matchups might be a good idea to conserve black creatures).
On another note, I'm running 18 lands and four of the island/swamp cyclers (Jhessian Zombies I believe is their name). I find them helpful as they up the count of black creatures while helping get those islands for unearthing fatestitchers. I'm wanting to up the count to three myself (I did not realize I only had two however) as they make it much easier to go off.
I played three games and won one; it was just a bunch of quick single-eliminations (although the third one we were all just tired and most everyone else dropped). Everytime I dropped a crypt, I won the game; but I've found there is a point where you just need to stop milling yourself. I ended up dumping all my swamps/crypts into my grave and having only one crypt left in my library of ~25ish. That was the most depressing Grim Discovery I've ever held. As to the reason I want to up the count to three fatestitchers, is I played against a Jund deck who I locked down his red for around five to six turns (Opening hand spreading seas; played on one triple land. Later I drew another and dropped it on another one of his triple lands), I had the crypt, I had all my islands...but I needed a single fatestitcher in my grave so I could play the crypt and untap it the same turn. Turns out I was being smart, because he held a ruinblaster in his opening hand. Oh well.
RIP Krensae Fluidtail: Sleep well with the fish
That sounds really awesome. I've been struggling with card draw this deck, and your heart sinks when you go turn 1 crab, turn two fetch, crack, tome scour, look at your eleven cards and see grim discovery - grim discovery - crypt - crypt - etc
RW Boros Bushwhacker RW
:):) New Player, so chill out if I've said anything stupid and you feel like flaming :):)
I played one match, against (surprise!) Jund, winning 2-0. Game one, we played a mostly noninteractive game, and I unearthed 32 power worth of creatures , which even a last-ditch Bituminous Blast into Terminate couldn't stop the beatdown. Game 2 saw me draw 3 Hedron Crabs and 2 Grim Discoveries, rendering his 3 Lightning Bolts useless. I used some Rats to force him into topdeck mode, and found myself racing a 4/4 Thrinax. I hardcast a Demon, then cast an Architects of Will to keep my opponent from drawing anything other than land.
Anyways, I like the deck, it runs nicely, far more smoothly than it looks like it would on paper. It's a combo that can go off again after 'fizzling'. I assume it has trouble with Boros and Turbofog, though, yes?
i've also found myself without any black mana when using the fetches, thinking of cutting some for more swamps b/c im dredging all my swamps
i'm using the same deck and mana base as Jacobs except with 1 ked, 1 fate and 1 corpse MD
also, how did u still have a arch in hand, i never end up having one in the end lol, cycling
Sometimes casting the architects is better than the cycle, check out and 'shaft' your opponents next coupla turns and make a blocker is (admittedly rarely) sometimes much better than just drawing a card.
Also, my clanboss says:
What can we do against it?
I think we're starting to get into a little war here... Let me try and clear things up:
Immortal Coil is amazing. To bad its not 1BB Compare it to Deathmark. Seems subpar to the coil since the coil can be used over and over. Deathmark on the other hand is a one shot deal. Both are sorcery speed, both stop you from getting hit by their fatties. The question I'm asking myself is what is it that I'm going to be hitting w/ deathmark before T4? (3 if you're super lucky to drop a crypt turn 2 and make 4 mana on turn 3 after dropping a land to mill/cycle at least 4 creatures) I really can't think of much that would be such a threat as to need a deathmark. Odds of triggered ability artifact hate game 2 is slim to none, so the only time I see deathmark being good is game 3 after they've seen the coil... if they SB hate for it and you switch it up. I feel like I'd almost rather just have 3-4 coils in the SB and use the other 2-3 slots for pithing needle to stop ajani/random relics.
What do you all think about Soul manipulation? Soul Manipulation is like... a poor man's crypic (we talked about this in the old crypt thread) Might as well read: 1UBB:Counter target creature spell and draw a card. Except its better, you get to pay one of the B at a more convenient time. (maybe the next turn.... or the turn after that) You could also fetch crabs/rats to disrupt their hand. I guess it completely depends on the meta...
Flashfreeze is just awesome. Should it be SB? I guess if deathmark is coming out, I wonder if I should be using soul manipulation or flashfreeze. Or maybe something else? Other thoughts on SB please.
Modern :
- Playing : Burn | Living End | Bant Eldrazi
- In Queue : ???
- Building : Death's Shadow |
- Sidelined : RUG Scapeshift | Lantern Control | GR Tron | Ad Nauseam | UWR Control | Dredge | Eldrazi Tron | UB Whir Tezzerator
EDH : Active Decks
BUGrimgrin Tribal ZombiesBU | WGRUril, the MiststalkerWGR | XKozilek, Butcher of TruthX
My Trade List
Do *not* side out Rotting Rats vs jund. The fact that they generate card advantage and slow down them is really important, and casting them early on to chump is a good way to slow them down even more. And you need them to dump your hand down.
Against jund, I'd rather side out Fatestitchers. Jund isn't very fast deck (The new decks with rampant growth being even worse.) and I often find myself rather unearthing creatures as they get to the yard to keep up the beats. Waiting for a big turn to go off is just about begging to get Jund Charmed.
Ultimately, though, I've yet to have serious problems vs Jund anyway. I'd go as far as to say it is one of the easiest matchups. I am not even sure if having Spreading Seas in the sideboard is the right move. I'd rather devote more slots for Bushwhacker, Bant, Lightsaber etc.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I'm also not a huge fan of Spreading Seas since it does too little against the decks you want to neutralize with it. If you could reliably get 2-3 out that would be one thing, but one is usually it. My board now looks like:
3 Pithing Needle
2 Kederekt Leviathan
3 Deathmark
3 Blistering Beetle
Y'all can accuse me of blindly following the Pro, but I had never thought of Coil or Beetle they really are smart cards against the 1 deck I have publicly said was not winable. I've been playing it online, but we'll see how it goes this week in paper.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
This the last time I'm responding to a non-PM'd complaint. Such things have no place in the thread.
First, adressing the matter of percieved insults: I have not insulted you or implied an insult. The first sentence of the last post was just establishing how I was going to interpret that line of your post. I am not making a personal attack, just attempting to disbar an opinion which I think would be harmful. Which, unless I am mistaken, is part of how a discussion works.
Also, I have never claimed authority over the deck and it's contents. I have been trying to exercise some over the thread and it's contents, though. I have exactly 3 simple and loose rules that I ask participants read. Two are aimed at stopping backslide ideas like winning via X spells or by taking a control route (which helps differentiate the Crypt control deck from this one). The last one exists to keep the thread uncluttered of things which are not discussion of the deck and to help me improve the OP. You may noticed that recently I have not actually posted any "content". This is because at this point in the thread's maturity there is enough contribution that it is more helpful for me to try and keep the thread focused and it's informational section up to date.
At the moment, I am working on the sideboarding section, mostly using suggestions from the thread and from the tutorial video.
Finally, respect is a mutual relationship. When you entered the thread, the first thing you did was state that you believed that the threads should be merged. This was frustrating. I had just posted a page or so back about why this was a poor choice. I didn't even want to have to post that; merger discussion doesn't belong in this thread. It is a PM matter. The tone of my first response would have been a great deal more subdued if you hadn't entered the thread by breaking rule 3 directly after someone else did and I had to say the same thing to them.
I really don't enjoy doing this at all, but I am compelled due to how much I enjoy the deck and believe it has potential. Topics such as thread mergers only make cancerous posts and damage the integrity of the thread. I thank all the posters for not getting involved in the issue. It really should be in PM's...
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
Like I said, the combo never presented itself (I drew/milled no Crypts), so the game turned into a race. I cycled a Carabid to hit land 6 for Demon, but once He was in topdeck mode, it seemed like a bad idea NOT to cast the Architects, it locked him out.