Welcome to the first MTGSalvation You Make the Cube!
This project will let the community build a Cube. What is it, you ask? Click on this link to learn more. The short of it is that it is a choice compilation of the "best" cards from all of Magic's history that are put together for Limited play. As the "best" part is very subjective, this project will try to determine if a collective body can make a fun Cube that is good for the majority...
The following are the only cards that will not be considered for the project:
- The Power Nine (just for this year; next year, if there is enough clamor, we can either remove this restriction or expand it)
Details can be found in their respective threads...
Before you go and vote, there is a poll set up, where you can choose how the next five weeks will go. The choices are...
- By category (low creatures, mid creatures, high creatures, low spells, high spells)
- By color (white, blue, black, red, green)
The choice that wins will determine the theme for each week, while the losing choice will be what the subcategories for each week are...
All nominations for this week end on Wednesday (this gives 48 hours, as opposed to the erroneously-advertised 72 hours printed earlier - many apologies)...
I think categories goes beyond low creatures and low spells, and high creatures and high spells. It is also important to differentiate between aggro creatures and control creatures, and aggro spells and control spells.
For example.. Savannah Lions and Weathered Wayfarer are both low-costed creatures. Savannah Lions is great in aggro, while Weathered Wayfarer is great in control. If we organize the card choices in the way you suggested I fear that aggro or control might outclass the other in certain colors or in general.
I propose that we use three definitions for creatures and spells when determining which cards to include. Cards that fit an aggro strategy (Savannah Lions, Grim Lavamancer, Char, etc), Cards that fit in a control strategy (Weathered Wayfarer, Sakura Tribe Elder, Sensei's Divining Top, etc), and cards that can be played in an aggro deck or a control deck (Siege-Gang Commander, Mother of Runes, Oblivion Ring, etc.)
It is also important to differentiate between aggro creatures and control creatures, and aggro spells and control spells.
There exists a distinction between them, but do we really want to select based on that?
The upside is that it stops us from being left with "orphaned" cards - that is cards which are good at something which the Cube as a whole does not support adequately.
But the downside is that we are then mostly predrafting people's decks for them and I think that's pretty bad.
In WotC's recent blocks I have seldom drafted "aggro" or "control" (maybe one draft in four at most). Usually there are far more options, which makes the draft much more interesting. It would be a shame to create a Cube which cut off that diversity of options.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Maybe this should be moved to the limited main forum, participation seems a little low here.
I kinda agree. I'll ask Lesurgo if he can move this one...
Regardless, future General Discussion threads will be in the main Limited thread...
Also, by popular demand, the Cube will be getting an additional twenty slots... for more details as to the contents of these slots, go to the Lands thread here.
The main problem with going by category is that having blue and green both have 3 creature weeks for example makes no sense. So every week would be all over the place anyways.
I think just the lands thread is an example of how impossible it is going to be to get an even remotely balanced cube out there. Honestly, if we're including a couple of the fetches, maybe a spattering of the karoos, a dash of this and a dash of that, it's going to be a wreck, not "fun." Include the color-fixing lands, please. A cube is not fun when you can't actually play the cards which you draft, and is going to be especially stupid if we have all the duals for b/w and almost none for r/g, or anything like that. There needs to be some editorial... discernment in this process.
If you look at the nominations, Dark Depths has more odds of getting in than the fetches. That's disturbing.
Anyhow, I will be happy to add my voice, but somebody needs to be the skeptic. This endeavor, as it seems to be progressing right now, looks absolutely doomed.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I think just the lands thread is an example of how impossible it is going to be to get an even remotely balanced cube out there. Honestly, if we're including a couple of the fetches, maybe a spattering of the karoos, a dash of this and a dash of that, it's going to be a wreck, not "fun." Include the color-fixing lands, please. A cube is not fun when you can't actually play the cards which you draft, and is going to be especially stupid if we have all the duals for b/w and almost none for r/g, or anything like that. There needs to be some editorial... discernment in this process.
If you look at the nominations, Dark Depths has more odds of getting in than the fetches. That's disturbing.
Anyhow, I will be happy to add my voice, but somebody needs to be the skeptic. This endeavor, as it seems to be progressing right now, looks absolutely doomed.
A Cube isn't also an excuse to draft poorly, either. As much as splashes are there to help you play those uber-bombs, there is only so much splashing that even these lands can help you play (since everything shares the same rarity in a Cube, if I remember it correctly). Thankfully the Lands went first, since that will give everyone an idea on what will be available for their mana base.
I would've been happier if you gave your piece during the issue rather than after the fact. If mentioned earlier, you could've easily organized a clear movement as to which ones should automatically be part of the Cube. As is, it sounds like a gate crash. Then again, I come from a country where, no matter what the issue is, there is always a vocal naysayer, so I am kinda used to it and willing to give it a second thought...
To be fair, the issue is still not fully resolved. I was planning to make these "auto-include" lands as part of a poll next week, where the Beta duals, Rav duals, Rav Karoos and fetch lands will be made to go heads up in a poll, and only two of the four sets will make it...
More discussion on this, preferrably before the start of Week 2, is welcome...
I say, if people like the B/W color combination better than the R/G one, then more power to them. Let them put a bunch of support for B/W mana bases and to heck with R/G as a draftable archetype. Not everything has to be draftable, or even should be. Let people do what they like.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I do really apologize for not getting my whining in while nominations were up. It's really easy to miss these threads when they're not in the main forum, but I realize that bringing this up now is somewhat after the point. Still, I wanted to get my say in before we were completely decided, as it seemed like it was still somewhat up in the air. I would strong support including all the fixing lands (10 duals, 10 shocks, 10 bounce, 5 fetch) in the cube and then adding others as nominated.
I do think there's a reason that wizards has been putting more fixing at common and colorless lately, and it's simply that having cards is no fun unless you can play them. It's a priority thing, and depending on your archetype, you can draft fixing higher or lower, but it would be good for our cube to at least support a consistent 3, 4, or 5 color plan, if you draft fixing high enough.
Plus there's the whole thing about playables. You're always going to have more than enough playables to build a deck, so fixing and consistency become real priorities, and you take land over a lot of things. I personally think having a solid land base in a cube is an absolute must, even if they're not as flashy as akromas and such.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I do really apologize for not getting my whining in while nominations were up. It's really easy to miss these threads when they're not in the main forum, but I realize that bringing this up now is somewhat after the point. Still, I wanted to get my say in before we were completely decided, as it seemed like it was still somewhat up in the air. I would strong support including all the fixing lands (10 duals, 10 shocks, 10 bounce, 5 fetch) in the cube and then adding others as nominated.
I do think there's a reason that wizards has been putting more fixing at common and colorless lately, and it's simply that having cards is no fun unless you can play them. It's a priority thing, and depending on your archetype, you can draft fixing higher or lower, but it would be good for our cube to at least support a consistent 3, 4, or 5 color plan, if you draft fixing high enough.
Plus there's the whole thing about playables. You're always going to have more than enough playables to build a deck, so fixing and consistency become real priorities, and you take land over a lot of things. I personally think having a solid land base in a cube is an absolute must, even if they're not as flashy as akromas and such.
No biggie... the timing was just a bit poor, that's all...
I'm going to put up the polls earlier because I have an early flight tomorrow. The polls will end a day later than normal to facilitate this early poll and because I won't be back that early anyway...
The poll will be in a separate thread from nominations, to increase visibility.
Just got back from Hong Kong. Man, my legs hurt...
Anyway, in less than 24 hours, we will begin the color weeks... and we will not necessarily be starting with white. I'll run random.org after I get some sleep, and by then, we will know what the color for Week 2 is.
Also, I'm in such a good mood, that I have something special for everyone...
This project will let the community build a Cube. What is it, you ask? Click on this link to learn more. The short of it is that it is a choice compilation of the "best" cards from all of Magic's history that are put together for Limited play. As the "best" part is very subjective, this project will try to determine if a collective body can make a fun Cube that is good for the majority...
The following are the only cards that will not be considered for the project:
- The Power Nine (just for this year; next year, if there is enough clamor, we can either remove this restriction or expand it)
- Unglued and Unhinged sets
- Cards with the word "ante" in the text box.
- Shahrazad
- Chaos Orb and Falling Star
- 1996 World Champion
Anything else is fair game, except for Shadowmoor which is yet to be released...
Now, this week we will be having two categories:
- Linear Strategy Cards
- Lands
Details can be found in their respective threads...
Before you go and vote, there is a poll set up, where you can choose how the next five weeks will go. The choices are...
- By category (low creatures, mid creatures, high creatures, low spells, high spells)
- By color (white, blue, black, red, green)
The choice that wins will determine the theme for each week, while the losing choice will be what the subcategories for each week are...
All nominations for this week end on Wednesday (this gives 48 hours, as opposed to the erroneously-advertised 72 hours printed earlier - many apologies)...
Till then...
- Shepherd
Link to current contents of Cube here.
SSC 8-Way Forum Draft
Current Pick: 1-6
Link to team assignments here.
SSC Forum Draft
Current Pick: 2-5
Link to pick here.
For example.. Savannah Lions and Weathered Wayfarer are both low-costed creatures. Savannah Lions is great in aggro, while Weathered Wayfarer is great in control. If we organize the card choices in the way you suggested I fear that aggro or control might outclass the other in certain colors or in general.
I propose that we use three definitions for creatures and spells when determining which cards to include. Cards that fit an aggro strategy (Savannah Lions, Grim Lavamancer, Char, etc), Cards that fit in a control strategy (Weathered Wayfarer, Sakura Tribe Elder, Sensei's Divining Top, etc), and cards that can be played in an aggro deck or a control deck (Siege-Gang Commander, Mother of Runes, Oblivion Ring, etc.)
Random AIM convo:
Xsaber57 (7:31:18 PM): Listen!
RedFalcon912 (7:31:26 PM): stfu Navi
There exists a distinction between them, but do we really want to select based on that?
The upside is that it stops us from being left with "orphaned" cards - that is cards which are good at something which the Cube as a whole does not support adequately.
But the downside is that we are then mostly predrafting people's decks for them and I think that's pretty bad.
In WotC's recent blocks I have seldom drafted "aggro" or "control" (maybe one draft in four at most). Usually there are far more options, which makes the draft much more interesting. It would be a shame to create a Cube which cut off that diversity of options.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I kinda agree. I'll ask Lesurgo if he can move this one...
Regardless, future General Discussion threads will be in the main Limited thread...
Also, by popular demand, the Cube will be getting an additional twenty slots... for more details as to the contents of these slots, go to the Lands thread here.
Link to current contents of Cube here.
SSC 8-Way Forum Draft
Current Pick: 1-6
Link to team assignments here.
SSC Forum Draft
Current Pick: 2-5
Link to pick here.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/337-pokerbob1s-casual-trading-emporium
This issue will be fully addressed in a poll in Week Two, but one thing's for certain: not all of them will make the cut.
In the meantime, nominations are now closed. A voting thread will be put up within 24 hours, either in the same thread or in a separate thread.
Stay tuned...
- Shepherd
Link to current contents of Cube here.
SSC 8-Way Forum Draft
Current Pick: 1-6
Link to team assignments here.
SSC Forum Draft
Current Pick: 2-5
Link to pick here.
If you look at the nominations, Dark Depths has more odds of getting in than the fetches. That's disturbing.
Anyhow, I will be happy to add my voice, but somebody needs to be the skeptic. This endeavor, as it seems to be progressing right now, looks absolutely doomed.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
A Cube isn't also an excuse to draft poorly, either. As much as splashes are there to help you play those uber-bombs, there is only so much splashing that even these lands can help you play (since everything shares the same rarity in a Cube, if I remember it correctly). Thankfully the Lands went first, since that will give everyone an idea on what will be available for their mana base.
I would've been happier if you gave your piece during the issue rather than after the fact. If mentioned earlier, you could've easily organized a clear movement as to which ones should automatically be part of the Cube. As is, it sounds like a gate crash. Then again, I come from a country where, no matter what the issue is, there is always a vocal naysayer, so I am kinda used to it and willing to give it a second thought...
To be fair, the issue is still not fully resolved. I was planning to make these "auto-include" lands as part of a poll next week, where the Beta duals, Rav duals, Rav Karoos and fetch lands will be made to go heads up in a poll, and only two of the four sets will make it...
More discussion on this, preferrably before the start of Week 2, is welcome...
- Shepherd
Link to current contents of Cube here.
SSC 8-Way Forum Draft
Current Pick: 1-6
Link to team assignments here.
SSC Forum Draft
Current Pick: 2-5
Link to pick here.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
I do think there's a reason that wizards has been putting more fixing at common and colorless lately, and it's simply that having cards is no fun unless you can play them. It's a priority thing, and depending on your archetype, you can draft fixing higher or lower, but it would be good for our cube to at least support a consistent 3, 4, or 5 color plan, if you draft fixing high enough.
Plus there's the whole thing about playables. You're always going to have more than enough playables to build a deck, so fixing and consistency become real priorities, and you take land over a lot of things. I personally think having a solid land base in a cube is an absolute must, even if they're not as flashy as akromas and such.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
No biggie... the timing was just a bit poor, that's all...
I'm going to put up the polls earlier because I have an early flight tomorrow. The polls will end a day later than normal to facilitate this early poll and because I won't be back that early anyway...
The poll will be in a separate thread from nominations, to increase visibility.
Link to current contents of Cube here.
SSC 8-Way Forum Draft
Current Pick: 1-6
Link to team assignments here.
SSC Forum Draft
Current Pick: 2-5
Link to pick here.
Anyway, in less than 24 hours, we will begin the color weeks... and we will not necessarily be starting with white. I'll run random.org after I get some sleep, and by then, we will know what the color for Week 2 is.
Also, I'm in such a good mood, that I have something special for everyone...
Till then...
- Shepherd
Link to current contents of Cube here.
SSC 8-Way Forum Draft
Current Pick: 1-6
Link to team assignments here.
SSC Forum Draft
Current Pick: 2-5
Link to pick here.