MTG Salvation

So the rules are going to change, and so is our game.

My only thought on this is as follows - if you don't like it, GTFO.

And now on to a FAR more important issues:

What are cubes going to look like after M10?

What cards should be removed from cubes due to their power level dropping dramatically?

So far I can think of:

Mogg Fanatic
Momentary Blink (sad, sad, sad)
Stonecloaker


While My initial feeling is that these 'blink' cards should be removed, perhaps they are actually still good? After all, they save key creatures from, removal / sweepers, and still double up CIP effects - thoughts?

As i also mentioned in the other post maybe all blink effects will prove to be useless.
But after thinking about it it's actually rare that you use the "damage on the stack" + blink. Most often you will use it to abuse an ETB-effect (Enters the Battlefield). So i actually think they are still good after all.

With the Fanatic, Ravenous Baloth, etc. where you more often make a damage on the stack + sac trick it's a bit sad. Also with Goblin Bombardment, that's a card that sadly will drop alot in powerlevel.

Fling used to be pretty good but you can throw it away now ..
Morphling gets seriously downgraded and may be dropped out imo ..

Unhappy person ..

Nantuko Husk, Ravenous Baloth, Mogg Fanatic etc. need some serious reconsideration now.

Goblin Bombardment

I like all the changes to the rules except the combat ones. The damage assignment rules are stupid and the removal of damage on the stack is awful.

Think all these will need to come out:

Mogg Fanatic
Momentary Blink
Stonecloaker
Ravenous Baloth

and makes my cutting of Graveshell Scarab look better too. These rules really seem to dumb down the combat step. When you have Giant Growth and a 3/3 blocking their 3/3 you now have to cast it before damage opening yourself up to a 2 for 1. I think this makes combat tricks slightly worse though they clearly didn't loose as much as the above cards.

At least this opens up some slots...

Yeah, all pump-effects and prevent-effects gets nerfed. Not like they didn't suck enough already...
That said i don't think that the follwing gets so much worse that they will need to be cut:
Mogg Fanatic
Momentary Blink
Stonecloaker
Ravenous Baloth

The Fanatic is still one of the best red onecost creatures. It's not like they are removing that you can respond to stuff. The Blink and Stonecloaker is a maybe, and so is Baloth.

Wait, wait, wait, does this rule mess up Graveshell Scarab?!

So like,

Opponent attacks me with a 4/4
We go to declare blockers
I declare scarab as a blocker
Opponent declares 4 damage to scarab
We go to instants/abilities
I sac scarab

Does my opponents creature die, or is it just blocked?

I'm guessing it's blocked, but my opponents creature lives, because after instants/abilities we go to damage step, and because scarab is gone, it doesn't deal damage?

Pain Kami, Hearth Kami just got a lot worse.

Master Warcraft just became hilarious. It's been in my Cube since Ravnica... like it has always known.

What other cards have strengthed? Righteousness is now pretty good. Maybe that could be included.

And yes, Rendog, I think you are correct. The Scarab/Mogg Fanatic/Sakura-Tribe Elder blocks and then sacs before it deals damage.

Question: how does this work with Morphing creatures face up? Can you morph up in mid combat? Morphing doesn't use the stack so...

Turning a card face-up doesn't use the stack, but you can only do so when you have priority.

They're not as good as they were before, but they're in no way "bad" now. Some of the blink effects are maybe too bad for the cube now, but I'm not removing the Mogg Fanatic or Ravenous Baloth. Or Morphling! You can still respond to your opponent playing spells and stuff, you just don't have any actions after combat damage has been assigned. Morphling is still a 5/1 Flying Shroud creature, and Mogg Fanatic can still block a Wolly Thoctar and be sacrificed to shoot their Birds of Paradise (and still have the Thoctar be blocked). Same goes for Morphling. You can still untap it and pump it to block your opponent's 5/5 during their attack step... you just can't pump it to a 5/1, put damage on the stack and make it an 0/6 anymore (killing your opponent's 5/5 and having your Morphling live :o).

I hate that I can't 2-for-1 with my Mogg Fanatic in combat anymore, but it's still a solid creature.

On the upside, Su-Chi is now playable... Lifelink is even stronger, and cards like Mana Drain and Tolarian Academy got the long-awaited boost they desperately needed to make them even better!

However, pump effects like Giant Growth are going to be stronger now than before, knowing your opponent can't manipulate damage once on the stack.

Not being able to 2-for-1 makes in some cases the difference between making the cut in cube or not ..

I wouldn't say Giant Growth is stronger .. You have to play it before damage, so they can also use their tricks to save the creature.
When a 4/4 met a 4/4 in combat I said ok, damage on the stack ? ok, THEN I played my growth to save my creature because then I would be sure it would save it.
Under new rules, my opponent can still play his pump effect before damage and save his/kill mine because I have to play before damage as well. (Does it make sense ? I'm in a hurry )

Some good cards like Pain Kami, Phyrexian Plaguelord and perhaps Grave-Shell Scarab and Hearth Kami may now drop below the threshold of playbility, in my opinion. I agree that stuff like Morphling won't be affected as much as many think. It took a lot of mana to do the 5/5 combat tricks, in any case. He can still shrug off removal and burn easily.

It will take a while to take stock of the other power shifts. Giant Growth is better now in that respect, but opens up two for ones like nobody's business. I think removal got a boost with this update - you can order an opponent's blockers and then strategically Terminate one of them? I'm not sure whether this combat rules update favours control or aggro yet, or indeed neither.

I think Lifelink is actually slightly weaker, no? I am happy that cumulative lifelink can't work like it did before. Exalted Angel attacking with Battlegrace Angel's Exalted bonus, for example, or multi-Genju of the Fields activations for silly life-gaining. However, it's good that you can lifegain simultaneouly with damage so that you don't die when on low life despite blocking with a lifelinker. I like this update.

The fact that you have to pay regenerate costs pro-actively and preemptively is the strangest aspect of these changes. Basically once blockers are arranged, you then pay the regenerate costs for the creatures in your pile even though they may not be damaged. I think. Creatures that can multiple block - Two-Headed Dragon - get confusing as all hell to use. Do they take different positions in the two separate blocking 'stacks'? Ugh.

Yes, Su-Chi is very cool now...

Quote from The Scientist

Not being able to 2-for-1 makes in some cases the difference between making the cut in cube or not ..

Sure, in some cases. Is Morphling one of those cases? Is it "coming out" now because of the rules change? No.

Quote from The Scientist

I wouldn't say Giant Growth is stronger .. You have to play it before damage, so they can also use their tricks to save the creature.
When a 4/4 met a 4/4 in combat I said ok, damage on the stack ? ok, THEN I played my growth to save my creature because then I would be sure it would save it.
Under new rules, my opponent can still play his pump effect before damage and save his/kill mine because I have to play before damage as well. (Does it make sense ? I'm in a hurry )

Agree. I think that pump-effects are getting worse as well.
As an example here's a situation that often happens:

I attack with a 3/3.
He blocks with a 3/3.
I put damage on the stack.
I cast Giant Growth or Healing Salve or whatever.
He cast Lightning Bolt.
Both creatures die.

New version:
I attack with a 3/3.
He blocks with a 3/3.
I cast Giant Growth or Healing Salve or whatever.
He cast Lightning Bolt.
I cry.

Quote from Goodking

I think Lifelink is actually slightly weaker, no?

No, it's better. And you listed the reason why. You now gain the life AS the creature is dealing damage. You don't die to combat damage while the Lifelink trigger is on the stack like you used to.

I hear you, but for me the loss of the ability to gain multiple lifelinks offsets the fact that if you are on really low life and control a life-link creature and are taking other damage, you survive. Both of these are rather niche situations, but the former occurs more in my experience (via Lox Hammer, Armadillo Cloak, the Lifelink Angels, Genju etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy about that change. Having multilifelink is unflavorful and a little ridiculous, for me.

Lifelink itself is a better ability now. Multiple lifelinks got made redundant. Fine with me. That's how I thought it should've worked to begin with.

The new lands are solid (does anybody know if they're making all 10 or just the 5 allied colors that are spoiled?).

And, the 2/2 Creeping Mold on-a-stick with Deathtouch for 3GG is awesome.

Quote from wtwlf123

The new lands are solid (does anybody know if they're making all 10 or just the 5 allied colors that are spoiled?).

And, the 2/2 Creeping Mold on-a-stick with Deathtouch for 3GG is awesome.

I think that from the Card numbers (the spoiled one was 226/249) it will unfortunately be just allied (because the last 20 will be basic land.) Well, it could be that the enemy cycle comes before or that it's alphabetically done, like the painlands in 10th (Treetop Village comes before Yavimaya Coast in 10th.) But, I'm not sure if the ordering will change like in Alara Reborn.

I agree that the Creeping Mold + 2/2 deathtouch should be really good for cube. Disenchant effects on bodies are generally really good for green.

Speaking of which, I think Viridian Zealot does get hosed quite a bit, but is still playable.

I think that Stonecloaker loses a lot of its luster now that damage on the stack is gone.

Etched Oracle

So what about the pump knights (order of the ebon hand) and nantuko shade? Does this mean I have to pump them BEFORE combat in order to get any bang out of their abilities?

Quote from Darth Bunny

So what about the pump knights (order of the ebon hand) and nantuko shade? Does this mean I have to pump them BEFORE combat in order to get any bang out of their abilities?

No. Just before damage.

I declare Ebon as attacker. You declare 3/3 beast token as blocker. Before damage, I pay BBB for +1/+0 and first strike. Ebon lives, and token dies... just as before.

Quote from klug

Etched Oracle

Missed this one.. Still probably good enough but who knows.

Quote from wtwlf123

Lifelink itself is a better ability now. Multiple lifelinks got made redundant. Fine with me. That's how I thought it should've worked to begin with.

It works how you think it should have and that makes it better? I've double lifelinked many, many more times than dying to lethal damage with lifelink on the stack.

Wydwen, the Biting Gale is hosed hard

Quote from iceage4life

It works how you think it should have and that makes it better?

NO.

It's better because you gain the life when the damage is dealt. Lifelink now saves you from dying from lethal damage because the Lifelink ability isn't added to the stack above the level of the damage.

Read what people have been saying before you post please.

What I said before (and I'll say it again for you) is that Lifelink is better, while at the same time making multiple Lifelink's redundant. Two... completely... different... things.