All of these are downgrades from my perspective. All the ones you already have on the left are played pretty regularly in my area, while all the ones on the right side other than Pristine and Death Grasp have been cut over time from my cube. Pristine and Grasp are pretty good, but I don't think they're better than Catastrophe or Stillmoon if those are the only options available.
Are these In -> Out or Out -> In changes? I'll assume the former based on previous discussions and the only changes I dislike are the removal of Vedalken Shackles & Palinchron. The Orangutan & Vigilante are pretty close but I think all the rest of the changes are very solid upgrades.
All of those are probably upgrades, although I like the Vigilante a lot.
I don't have much experience with Goblin Trenches but a lot of cubists really like it. The Hedge-Mage is really good, but I think most of the folks in this forum would prefer the Trenches.
I still have Windborn Muse and Pristine Angel in my cube, but it will eventually be on my chopping block since there are better and better 5-6cc white creatures lately.
I'm one of those Trench-lovers...
The good thing about it is that it like Stormbind are a thread that's very difficult to hangle for most decks. And if it hits the board versus control it's almost guarenteed victory.
I suppose that Viridian Shaman would be better than Orangutan if I put one of them in for Vigilante due to the the elf interaction with Imperious Perfect. In any case, I will probably update the cube this weekend.
I like those changes. Goblin Trenches didn't work out overall for us, but it's a fine cube card. A lot of others will definitely promote it, but we cut it for not performing how we expected it to.
I like Crucible of Worlds, but I'm skeptical of it's usefulness in the cube. I know that there is synergy with specific cards, but in the vast majority of my games, my lands tend to stay in play. Crucible + Strip Mine/Wasteland is pretty awesome. Crucible + Fetch land is pretty awesome. Crucible + any sac land is pretty awesome. The fact that it's so reliant on other cards to be useful makes me not want to use up an artifact slot with it.
I like Crucible of Worlds, but I'm skeptical of it's usefulness in the cube. I know that there is synergy with specific cards, but in the vast majority of my games, my lands tend to stay in play. Crucible + Strip Mine/Wasteland is pretty awesome. Crucible + Fetch land is pretty awesome. Crucible + any sac land is pretty awesome. The fact that it's so reliant on other cards to be useful makes me not want to use up an artifact slot with it.
It is similar to Squee in that it doesn't work by itself but there are so many support cards that you want to run anyways that make it good.
There are a lot of staples missing from your artifacts and only a few cards I would cut so I'd try and expand that section by at least 5 cards to fit in all the good stuff. Notable omissions:
Grim Monolith - Fast mana is good. Mana Crypt - More fast mana. Chrome Mox - Very good. Bonesplitter - I think this is better than Grafted Wargear though Wargear is quite good. Scroll Rack - Divining Top #2, sort of. Nice with Land Tax. Mindslaver - Very powerful. No need to recur it with Academy Ruins, you will usually win if you slaver your opponent once. Erratic Portal - Crystal Shard #2. Sundering Titan - One of the best tinker/reanimation targets and not unusual for him to be hardcast. Crucible of Worlds - Very abusable, you run most of the cards that make it good already.
Chrome Mox probably needs a place - and could end up taking Sol Ring's spot (we don't run moxen or other fast artifact mana and are trying out sol ring currently - but the consensus is that so far it takes away from the 'feel' of the style of magic we like. As on of my players put: "A control deck that can wrath turn 2 makes aggro cry." If we decided to add in the artifact mana package (which I sorta want to, but several of my players are deathly afraid of), we would add in: Lotus, Moxen, Crypt, Vault, Monolith, (Keep in Sol Ring), D. Ritual. For now we are shying away from it, not because we think they aren't great cards, but to preserve the 'traditional feel' magic tempo where you get 1 mana turn 1, 2 on turn 2, etc.
I don't want to add cards, so anything I add to the artifact section would have to replace something from other sections. The most likely thing would be to cut 1 card of each allied color pair, the other option would be to cut a card from each color, and move the 'color-aligned' lands into their respective sections - or perhaps both.
Thanks for the input. I'll organize the artifacts by CMC later on today.
Chrome Mox probably needs a place - and could end up taking Sol Ring's spot (we don't run moxen or other fast artifact mana and are trying out sol ring currently - but the consensus is that so far it takes away from the 'feel' of the style of magic we like. As on of my players put: "A control deck that can wrath turn 2 makes aggro cry." If we decided to add in the artifact mana package (which I sorta want to, but several of my players are deathly afraid of), we would add in: Lotus, Moxen, Crypt, Vault, Monolith, (Keep in Sol Ring), D. Ritual. For now we are shying away from it, not because we think they aren't great cards, but to preserve the 'traditional feel' magic tempo where you get 1 mana turn 1, 2 on turn 2, etc.
I can respect that, you have to keep people happy. Sol Ring is by far the most unfair of the fast mana cards so you might want to switch it with Grim Monolith if your players don't like it. It's kind of like having a group of players who hate discard but you decide to trial it anyways by adding in Mind Twist.
I don't want to add cards, so anything I add to the artifact section would have to replace something from other sections. The most likely thing would be to cut 1 card of each allied color pair, the other option would be to cut a card from each color, and move the 'color-aligned' lands into their respective sections - or perhaps both.
Fast mana aside, the other artifacts I listed are all staples. Either of the options would increase the overall powerlevel of your cube.
I can respect that, you have to keep people happy. Sol Ring is by far the most unfair of the fast mana cards so you might want to switch it with Grim Monolith if your players don't like it. It's kind of like having a group of players who hate discard but you decide to trial it anyways by adding in Mind Twist.
I have a feeling that Sol Ring will end up coming out after we draft today and tomorrow, because our typical rule to evaluate a card is for it to get played 10 times before we talk about why it should come out (or go unplayed in 5 out of the 10 drafts) - and its been 8 so far, with mostly negative comments.
While I agree with pretty much all of DM's suggestions, I cannot vouch for Chrome Mox. It's the only mox that I don't feel is cube worthy. It's a lot different in constructed than it is in the cube. Normally it's used to power out a turn one 2-drop or turn two 3-drop. In the cube, it's just not that and most of the time I'd rather just wait a turn to play my spell than pitch another spell to the mox. I also found that there are plenty of times where I just simply can't pitch a spell that will give me the color(s) I need. Chrome Mox is the worst of the moxen in this format... by far.
While I agree with pretty much all of DM's suggestions, I cannot vouch for Chrome Mox. It's the only mox that I don't feel is cube worthy. It's a lot different in constructed than it is in the cube. Normally it's used to power out a turn one 2-drop or turn two 3-drop. In the cube, it's just not that and most of the time I'd rather just wait a turn to play my spell than pitch another spell to the mox. I also found that there are plenty of times where I just simply can't pitch a spell that will give me the color(s) I need. Chrome Mox is the worst of the moxen in this format... by far.
I had so much positive experience with it in constructed that I figured it must be good. Was it useless more-often-than-not?
My artifact section is at 62 cards right now so the Mox makes it in pretty easily. Your section is much smaller so I would add in the other cards I listed first and see if you have room for the Mox to test it for yourself since all the others are better. If I had to choose I think I'd also put in Pithing Needle over it but I am very fond of the Needle so maybe it is clouding my judgment.
How has not having a fixed creature/spell ratio been working for you? Intuitively I feel like I would unconsciously heavily skew the creature/spell ratio in one direction depending on the color. Has just picking the best X colored cards actually given you a natural balance or have you had to go back and artificially remove some creatures (for example) to make room for more spells?
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**Sorry, these were backwards.Pestermite - > Vedalken Shackles
Sun Ce, Young Conqueror -> Palinchron
Should be:
Vedalken Shackles -> Pestermite
Palinchron -> Sun Ce, Young Conqueror
Sphinx of Jwar Isle -> Quicksilver Dragon?
Phantom Centaur -> Cliffrunner Behemoth
Uktabi Orangutan -> Nantuko Vigilante
Celestial Crusader -> Windborn Muse
Catastrophe -> Pristine Angel?
Prophetic Bolt -> Gelectrode
Bituminous Blast -> Fulminator Mage
Stilmoon Cavalier -> Death Grasp
Goblin Trenches -> Duergar Hedge Mage
Thoughts?
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
All of these are downgrades from my perspective. All the ones you already have on the left are played pretty regularly in my area, while all the ones on the right side other than Pristine and Death Grasp have been cut over time from my cube. Pristine and Grasp are pretty good, but I don't think they're better than Catastrophe or Stillmoon if those are the only options available.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
Are these In -> Out or Out -> In changes? I'll assume the former based on previous discussions and the only changes I dislike are the removal of Vedalken Shackles & Palinchron. The Orangutan & Vigilante are pretty close but I think all the rest of the changes are very solid upgrades.
Whoops, Accidentally flipped the first two. Sorry for the confusion.
Possible updates:
(In -> Out)
Vedalken Shackles -> Pestermite
Palinchron -> Sun Ce, Young Conquerer - I just noticed that Conquerer is spelled wrong. Conquer-O-r. Interesting.
Sphinx of Jwar Isle -> Quicksilver Dragon?
Phantom Centaur -> Cliffrunner Behemoth
Uktabi OrangutanViridian Shaman -> Nantuko VigilanteCelestial Crusader -> Windborn Muse
Catastrophe -> Pristine Angel?
Prophetic Bolt -> Gelectrode
Bituminous Blast -> Fulminator Mage
Stilmoon Cavalier -> Death Grasp
Goblin Trenches -> Duergar Hedge Mage
Thoughts?
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
I don't have much experience with Goblin Trenches but a lot of cubists really like it. The Hedge-Mage is really good, but I think most of the folks in this forum would prefer the Trenches.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
I still have Windborn Muse and Pristine Angel in my cube, but it will eventually be on my chopping block since there are better and better 5-6cc white creatures lately.
The good thing about it is that it like Stormbind are a thread that's very difficult to hangle for most decks. And if it hits the board versus control it's almost guarenteed victory.
My Tribal cube
My 93/94 old school cube
My Artifact cube
My Hearthstone Quiz App for iOS
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It comes up extremely rarely but yes, Shaman is strictly better.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Pauper Cube
I cube, I play EDH, and I can't afford Legacy. The other formats can suck it.
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It is similar to Squee in that it doesn't work by itself but there are so many support cards that you want to run anyways that make it good.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Give it some testing time, I also was very skeptical when I first included it but it sees a lot of play now.
Grim Monolith - Fast mana is good.
Mana Crypt - More fast mana.
Chrome Mox - Very good.
Bonesplitter - I think this is better than Grafted Wargear though Wargear is quite good.
Scroll Rack - Divining Top #2, sort of. Nice with Land Tax.
Mindslaver - Very powerful. No need to recur it with Academy Ruins, you will usually win if you slaver your opponent once.
Erratic Portal - Crystal Shard #2.
Sundering Titan - One of the best tinker/reanimation targets and not unusual for him to be hardcast.
Crucible of Worlds - Very abusable, you run most of the cards that make it good already.
I also like Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Processor, Triskelion & Memory Jar but you can probably get by without them. Would definitely cut Platinum Angel, Coldsteel Heart and maybe Bottle Gnomes.
EDIT: It would also be helpful to have that section organized by casting cost.
Chrome Mox probably needs a place - and could end up taking Sol Ring's spot (we don't run moxen or other fast artifact mana and are trying out sol ring currently - but the consensus is that so far it takes away from the 'feel' of the style of magic we like. As on of my players put: "A control deck that can wrath turn 2 makes aggro cry." If we decided to add in the artifact mana package (which I sorta want to, but several of my players are deathly afraid of), we would add in: Lotus, Moxen, Crypt, Vault, Monolith, (Keep in Sol Ring), D. Ritual. For now we are shying away from it, not because we think they aren't great cards, but to preserve the 'traditional feel' magic tempo where you get 1 mana turn 1, 2 on turn 2, etc.
I don't want to add cards, so anything I add to the artifact section would have to replace something from other sections. The most likely thing would be to cut 1 card of each allied color pair, the other option would be to cut a card from each color, and move the 'color-aligned' lands into their respective sections - or perhaps both.
Thanks for the input. I'll organize the artifacts by CMC later on today.
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
I can respect that, you have to keep people happy. Sol Ring is by far the most unfair of the fast mana cards so you might want to switch it with Grim Monolith if your players don't like it. It's kind of like having a group of players who hate discard but you decide to trial it anyways by adding in Mind Twist.
Fast mana aside, the other artifacts I listed are all staples. Either of the options would increase the overall powerlevel of your cube.
I have a feeling that Sol Ring will end up coming out after we draft today and tomorrow, because our typical rule to evaluate a card is for it to get played 10 times before we talk about why it should come out (or go unplayed in 5 out of the 10 drafts) - and its been 8 so far, with mostly negative comments.
Fair enough. After I update things it (probably friday) it will be time to look at the best way to make space.
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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I had so much positive experience with it in constructed that I figured it must be good. Was it useless more-often-than-not?
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]