Sorry
doing that now, have been to lazy to read the beginning of the thread
Seems that it's really difficult to get bad Cube sealed pool with 6 boosters no ?
I think that it's too much considering the raw power of the cards, no cards are unplayable, at the opposite of a standart limited sealed, any thoughts about that ?
We're not really worried about how good or bad the pool is, we're trying to build the best deck (and then argue about who built the best deck). All the things you said are true for every cube draft, and knowing how to build the best deck from a pool full of great cards is just as tough as knowing how to build it from a pool full of crappy ones.
If it were too easy, we would all always come up with the same build. Scrool through the pages here. That is far from the truth.
You didn't get my question. It wasn't very clear, sorry.
I plan of testing Cube sealed this week with my play group on my cube, and wanted to have your thoughts about the good number of packs/cards to give each player to have a good pool and not too much powerfull bombs. Just wanted your opinion about the 90 cards, as i feel it's too much, compared to a standart limited sealed pool, simply because in a limited pool, you have something like 10-15 unplayables cards, in a cube pool, all your card are powerfull enough to be played.
You didn't get my question. It wasn't very clear, sorry.
I plan of testing Cube sealed this week with my play group on my cube, and wanted to have your thoughts about the good number of packs/cards to give each player to have a good pool and not too much powerfull bombs. Just wanted your opinion about the 90 cards, as i feel it's too much, compared to a standart limited sealed pool, simply because in a limited pool, you have something like 10-15 unplayables cards, in a cube pool, all your card are powerfull enough to be played.
From what you're saying it seems like you want to cut down one pack to 75 cards. That would represent the 10-15 unplayables fairly well, and reduce the amount of bombs opened. I would think twice before going any further however, because it will be near impossible to play two color aggro with so few cards (and creatures) in each color. Your sealed games will turn into 3-4 color midrange versus 4-5 color control.
Even though I'm not making any decks with the sealed pools, I'll say this:
The official amount of boosters used in Sealed Deck is 6 these days. 6 boosters from cube is very much ok. Like Phantizle said, cutting down to 75 cards will give you less playables in each color and you'll make 3-color decks a certainty. Creatures are already in shortage in most cubes, cutting down a booster will just make it a lot worse. Stick with 90.
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If lowering the card count to 75 force all players in the sealed to play 3 color, i don't really consider it a problem considering the really high amount of fixing we got in allmost all the pools.
My playgroup decided to go for the 75 cards sealed. I'll give you more feedback on friday on that.
My cube is focused on 1 or 2 color decks. Sure it happens often someone splashes a 3rd color in draft, but I wouldn't want to force everyone to play 3 colors in sealed.
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"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
I disagree with the plan to cut back to 75 cards. As in we are having quite a bit of problems getting enough creatures in 2 colors to make an agro deck (most decks have wound up being midrange decks) I know this is more common for sealed, but I don't like forcing it more.
also I've gotten 6 decks thus far. Send me lists soon, I'm posting on thursday around 4 o'clock.
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I disagree with the plan to cut back to 75 cards. As in we are having quite a bit of problems getting enough creatures in 2 colors to make an agro deck (most decks have wound up being midrange decks) I know this is more common for sealed, but I don't like forcing it more.
Well, I think that you have to consider a BG shell to begin with, and then look to splashes later. Red looks like the most natual inclusion even if only for Earthquake.
The following didn't make the cut:
Sensei's Divining Top (lacks good shuffle effects here)
Thoughtseize
Grim Poppet
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Earthquake (decided there were enough playables in BG)
Bloodbraid Elf
Tooth and Nail
Obelisk of Alara
Leaving this (counting Ink-Eyes as 'equipment' and Animate Dead as a creature):
The weak point of this deck is it's creatures. With so many awesome equipment to wield (counting Ink-Eyes as equipment you have 5), you run the danger of having your creatures all killed and nothing to equip.
I'm actually not too happy with this deck. The pool gave me amazing equipments, but not much in the creature department. I knew I wanted to go with BW when I saw both 'geddon and Mind Twist in there. I also thought a bit about red given the amount of good burn and the on color Mox. In the end I couldn't cut black or white and didn't have the fixing to go with a three color midrange build. I feel like I have a pile of good black and white cards with no real synergy. I would hope that my mass removal would buy me the time I'd need to win on the back of my equipments combined with a well timed 'geddon or Mind Twist.
The mana here in this card pool leans toward BG and it helps that alot of the good cards are in those colours. The thinking here was how greedy can I be? There was enough good lands to splash blue but there wasnt much that you really wanted to put in. Oona is nice but with plenty of 6 drops on colour already i though it unecessary. Red seemed the ideal splash as there was no actually removal apart from Damnation.
Hi there, thanks for doing this. Here is my submission, sorry it's a bit long!
Interesting pool. I'll try and document my thought processes as I go along, as that would seem to be in the spirit of this exercise.
At first glance I notice a general lack of creatures; no more than 6 in any one colour. This is a shame, as we have some great equipment. Aggro would seem to me to be right out.
We have a moderate amount of mana fixing, but not so much, I think, that we can afford to be too greedy. Of note we have both B/G duals, and a Wooded Foothills to fetch them.
Looking at White, we have about half of a great weenie deck. There is not even that much I would want to splash beyond Swords to Plowshares.
Blue is small and underwhelming. The best card there has a triple blue casting cost and so is far from splashable.
Black. Now we're getting somewhere. Brutal discard options with the Mind Twist, backed up by Liliana, Duress and Thoughtseize. Damnation is great, shame to see no spot removal, and great finishers in the shape of Tombstalker, Ink-Eyes and Kokusho. There is a mild reanimation theme with the Graverobber, Liliana, Ink-Eyes and Animate Dead. I like the idea of a deck that discards an opponent's creatures into the yard, then reanimates them on my side.
Red is the largest pool. From the creatures, Magus of the Scroll might be worth including to give some reach, and I like the idea of playing Avalanche Riders in this deck to punish an opponent for being greedy. Blood Knight and Kiki are probably not going to fit our deck. There are one or two playable burn spells, which could make up for the lack of black removal. Incendiary command and Wheel of Fortune can force creature discard from our opponents allowing us to reanimate.
Green has some good cards but seems a bit shallow. It may be worth playing as a splash, particularly as we have the B/G duals.
In multicolour, we could pay Oona as a 3BBB card, but I don't think we are short on black finishers. Bloodbraid Elf and Spiritmonger might cut it if we decide to splash Green.
I don't think we will be running enough creatures to justify all the equipment, but Jitte might make the cut because it is so good. Skullclamp and Imperious Perfect would be lovely if you could guarantee drawing them (and we do have tutors). Nevinyrral's Disk will probably make the deck, particularly if we go BR and have no other way to deal with enchantments.
My first plan is to go BR, but do we have enough cards?
That's already 25 cards, and I think I want to run 17 land in this deck. I don't feel any great need to go into a third colour, I just need to decide what to cut. The deck seems a little top heavy, so I will lose Tombstalker rather than Kokusho or Ink-Eyes. The other high end card I think will have to be Incendiary Command.
Going by my curve and mana costs, I want roughly even red and black sources. I will run the Foothills with the Bayou as a way of accessing both colours of mana, also the City of Brass. I don't think I'll play the Overgrown tomb, as I also have cards like Thoughtseize, Earthquake and Char that will be hurting me. I don't want to be slowed down by the Terramorphic Expanse, but I think it should probably go in anyway. Running two colours means I can easily afford to play the Strip Mine, and punish the greedy 3+ colour players (plus I have Duress and Thoughtseize so I know exactly what colour to cut them off from). Oh, and I have an on-colour mox. Yay.
What I like about this deck is that it has a clear plan, a solid manabase, and opportunities to hurt my opponent's mana (Avalanche Riders, Pillage, Strip Mine). It has game against aggro with all the removal, and against control with the hand destruction. It's main weakness is lack of enchantment removal, but there is a splashable, tutorable Krosan Grip that could be sided in.
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The artifacts. The artifacts are the key here. There are too many badass equipments here to NOT run something Aggro.
I can't help but go 3-color Aggro here. The mana base is available and the cards are there. I don't have any "Un" cards in my Cube, and while they're available here, I'm not running them. If I were to run them, it'd probably be Blast and W/W/W/W/W. For the record, they were my last two cuts.
I had Nantuko Shade in there, then dropped it for Ink-Eyes, then realized I took a step backwards on my curve. Because I'm 3 colors, I added Wood Elves which should help. There's only 4 spells that I can't Cascade into, and I have the Spiritmonger there as late-game help.
I really wanted to run Damnation or Phyrexian Arena but I'll tell you why I didn't. Double BB. Earthquake works better for the archetype, and is easier to cast due to the single R. Arena was pitched for Wheel of Fortune, which is a simple draw 7 for a deck that empties its hand quickly and is also easier to cast with a single R. It's possible that a mid-game Bloodbraid into Wheel can end up winning the game.
The equipment is just totally out of this world. Any equipment on any of the creatures makes things really tough to deal with.
The first thought is BG Rock, but there's not enough spot removal in Black to make it viable. That's it's main problem. Damnation/Disk is good, but there's simply not enough spot removal for it to be a great Control deck. If I had to pick between the two, I'd take that 3-color Aggro deck. It has the burn to get your guys through.
I so badly wanted to throw that Armageddon in my build!!! I just couldn't justify it. Had the fetch land been a Windswept Heath, I might have gone that rout.
I did make a mistake by not throwing in Terramorphic Expanse, but that's easily solvable. I figured that BG would be featured -- as shown by the 7 decks that used it.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Well atleast every color got played atleast once (thanks Calibreto for playing white :D)
Ha! No problem. Glad to be of service.
I couldn't pass up on playing both 'Geddon and Mind Twist. After looking through the lists, I think Humpty built the deck closest to the one that I was originally thinking of before I decided that I just couldn't cut Armageddon.
playing 10 creatures and 4 equipment is a bit too much imo. Either up the creature count or cut equipment. Given the removal in cube, you need more creatures.
I think the deck that played the most creatures was like 11 creatures. You should aim for 13 imo
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"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
playing 10 creatures and 4 equipment is a bit too much imo. Either up the creature count or cut equipment. Given the removal in cube, you need more creatures.
I think the deck that played the most creatures was like 11 creatures. You should aim for 13 imo
Back in Mirrordin block I had a rule of thumb of 1 equipment for every 5 creatures. We can bend that slightly here because the equipment are so good, but still, 4 equipment for 10 creatures....
So if you're only going to run three, which do you cut? I assume that Jitte and Sword are off limits, so it has to be either Skullclamp or Warhammer. Because of Spiritmonger and Ink-Eyes, I'd keep the Warhammer and cut Skullclamp (If I was to only run 3).
So if you're only going to run three, which do you cut? I assume that Jitte and Sword are off limits, so it has to be either Skullclamp or Warhammer. Because of Spiritmonger and Ink-Eyes, I'd keep the Warhammer and cut Skullclamp (If I was to only run 3).
Yes?
That really depends on your build. Skullclamp is just better than the hammer because of it's cost and activation cost. In my build posted below, i opted for Skullclamp, and i think you should run skullclamp over hammer in most builds.
bondafong: must have missed it, you deck is indeed perfect
I keep skullclamp over warhammer.
Warhammer is good, but mana consuming, while Skullclamp doesn't consume mana and is card advantage in its purest form
Hehe. Thank you.
I think the bloodbraid elf is strong enough to splash, and the sideboard are the last cards i chose to cut. I would really like to have some of the burnspells mainboard, but there wasn't room. Against agressive decks I would side in Flame Jav and Lightning Bolt.
I really wanted to fit Broodbraid elf in my build but i chose Wood elf over it for mana stability for 2 reasons :
- Wanted to have a stable manabase, so i had to putt izzet signet in (for R splash and U source for cryptic command) and don't want to flip it on elf
- earthquake has to be played if you splash red for me, and with signet, 2 X spells, and possibly animate dead that i don't want to flip in the early game, missing a good target, that's too much card i dont want to flip on the elf.
If i didn't want to have acces to all my lands, i would have play Imperious perfect in this slot, which is clearly a stability over power choice.
And i just noticed that i putt Top in instead of Skullclamp, which is clearly a mistake (and not what i wanted to do)
Not playing Wheel of fortune in a deck with such a high bomb density is a misstake if you play red IMHO.
About equipement : considering the really high quality of the pool, SoLS is for me unplyable, really low on raw power compared to all the card we can include. Warhammer is clearly an anti aggro sideboard card for me in this pool. Even skullclamp is debatable for me. The real interest is the Oona/Imperious perfect synergy and if you manage to have oona and skullclamp, i think that you allready winning this game.
At first blush this sealed pool seems to scream for midrange featuring black. Upon further consideration, the truth of the pool jumed out at me. Fast. Play fast. Win fast. Use creatures (due to the insane equipment).
I doubted I could make a deck to abuse all of these, but cutting the weakest (Warhammer) still leaves us with an arsenal strong enough to make any creature base insane. While the quality of black spells was off the charts, the creatures were scarce and slow. If there's one thing in a cube deck that can trump power, it is speed. And speed means burn. Look at the burn selection:
That is pure insanity, especially when combined with the equip package (and a red mox). So now i just had to pack the rest of the deck with creatures. But which color to play? My first thought was white, as it had some solid weenies, and would add another burn spell (Lightning Helix). Green however proved the better choice as it had five great 1-3 drops, and gave me the insanity that is Bloodbraid Elf.
Demonic/Mystical tutor or naturally drawing into Earthquake, damanation, incendiary command... I don't see how this approch can beat the controlish route some other players suggested.
Especially with 10 creatures for 4 equipements (Blinkmoth's nexus shouldn't be counted as a creature for me)
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We're not really worried about how good or bad the pool is, we're trying to build the best deck (and then argue about who built the best deck). All the things you said are true for every cube draft, and knowing how to build the best deck from a pool full of great cards is just as tough as knowing how to build it from a pool full of crappy ones.
If it were too easy, we would all always come up with the same build. Scrool through the pages here. That is far from the truth.
I plan of testing Cube sealed this week with my play group on my cube, and wanted to have your thoughts about the good number of packs/cards to give each player to have a good pool and not too much powerfull bombs. Just wanted your opinion about the 90 cards, as i feel it's too much, compared to a standart limited sealed pool, simply because in a limited pool, you have something like 10-15 unplayables cards, in a cube pool, all your card are powerfull enough to be played.
From what you're saying it seems like you want to cut down one pack to 75 cards. That would represent the 10-15 unplayables fairly well, and reduce the amount of bombs opened. I would think twice before going any further however, because it will be near impossible to play two color aggro with so few cards (and creatures) in each color. Your sealed games will turn into 3-4 color midrange versus 4-5 color control.
Any thought about that ?
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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The official amount of boosters used in Sealed Deck is 6 these days. 6 boosters from cube is very much ok. Like Phantizle said, cutting down to 75 cards will give you less playables in each color and you'll make 3-color decks a certainty. Creatures are already in shortage in most cubes, cutting down a booster will just make it a lot worse. Stick with 90.
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeMy playgroup decided to go for the 75 cards sealed. I'll give you more feedback on friday on that.
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeIf I get chosen next, I give you a no Ink Eyes promise! (note that I have already made up the pool, and thus am confidant in my promise)
also I've gotten 6 decks thus far. Send me lists soon, I'm posting on thursday around 4 o'clock.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
I agree with this.
Me too. If someone don't want 90 cards, they can cut 15 at random.
My Tribal cube
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My Artifact cube
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BG : !!
UBRG: !!
WB: !
BRG: !!!
BR: !
RG: !
Well atleast every color got played atleast once (thanks Calibreto for playing white :D)
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
I did make a mistake by not throwing in Terramorphic Expanse, but that's easily solvable. I figured that BG would be featured -- as shown by the 7 decks that used it.
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
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2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
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Ha! No problem. Glad to be of service.
I couldn't pass up on playing both 'Geddon and Mind Twist. After looking through the lists, I think Humpty built the deck closest to the one that I was originally thinking of before I decided that I just couldn't cut Armageddon.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Interesting looking through the builds at Duress and Thoughtsieze. Some played both, some only one, and some neither. Which is better, and why?
Also, is it just 'wrong' not to play rare equipment in cube sealed?
I think the deck that played the most creatures was like 11 creatures. You should aim for 13 imo
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeMy deck had 13 creatures and 3 equipment:
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Nantuko Shade
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Wood Elves
1 Imperios Perfect
1 Virdian Shaman
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Spiritmonger
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Ink Eyes, Servent of Oni
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Tombstalker
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Skullclamp
My Tribal cube
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So if you're only going to run three, which do you cut? I assume that Jitte and Sword are off limits, so it has to be either Skullclamp or Warhammer. Because of Spiritmonger and Ink-Eyes, I'd keep the Warhammer and cut Skullclamp (If I was to only run 3).
Yes?
That really depends on your build. Skullclamp is just better than the hammer because of it's cost and activation cost. In my build posted below, i opted for Skullclamp, and i think you should run skullclamp over hammer in most builds.
My Tribal cube
My 93/94 old school cube
My Artifact cube
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I keep skullclamp over warhammer.
Warhammer is good, but mana consuming, while Skullclamp doesn't consume mana and is card advantage in its purest form
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeHehe. Thank you.
I think the bloodbraid elf is strong enough to splash, and the sideboard are the last cards i chose to cut. I would really like to have some of the burnspells mainboard, but there wasn't room. Against agressive decks I would side in Flame Jav and Lightning Bolt.
My Tribal cube
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My Artifact cube
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- Wanted to have a stable manabase, so i had to putt izzet signet in (for R splash and U source for cryptic command) and don't want to flip it on elf
- earthquake has to be played if you splash red for me, and with signet, 2 X spells, and possibly animate dead that i don't want to flip in the early game, missing a good target, that's too much card i dont want to flip on the elf.
If i didn't want to have acces to all my lands, i would have play Imperious perfect in this slot, which is clearly a stability over power choice.
And i just noticed that i putt Top in instead of Skullclamp, which is clearly a mistake (and not what i wanted to do)
Not playing Wheel of fortune in a deck with such a high bomb density is a misstake if you play red IMHO.
About equipement : considering the really high quality of the pool, SoLS is for me unplyable, really low on raw power compared to all the card we can include. Warhammer is clearly an anti aggro sideboard card for me in this pool. Even skullclamp is debatable for me. The real interest is the Oona/Imperious perfect synergy and if you manage to have oona and skullclamp, i think that you allready winning this game.
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Skullclamp
1 Umezawa's Jitte
I doubted I could make a deck to abuse all of these, but cutting the weakest (Warhammer) still leaves us with an arsenal strong enough to make any creature base insane. While the quality of black spells was off the charts, the creatures were scarce and slow. If there's one thing in a cube deck that can trump power, it is speed. And speed means burn. Look at the burn selection:
1 Magus of the Scroll
1 Blast from the Past
1 Char
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Magma Jet
1 Flame Javelin
1 Incendiary Command
1 Fireblast
1 Earthquake
1 Wheel of Fortune (not a burn spell, but might as well be).
That is pure insanity, especially when combined with the equip package (and a red mox). So now i just had to pack the rest of the deck with creatures. But which color to play? My first thought was white, as it had some solid weenies, and would add another burn spell (Lightning Helix). Green however proved the better choice as it had five great 1-3 drops, and gave me the insanity that is Bloodbraid Elf.
My final build ended up like this:
1 Blinkmoth's Nexus
1 Magus of the Scroll
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Virdian Shaman
1 Blood Knight
1 Wood Elves
1 Imperios Perfect
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Magma Jet
1 Blast from the Past
1 Char
1 Flame Javelin
1 Incendiary Command
1 Fireblast
1 Earthquake
// Equip
1 Skullclamp
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Sensei's Divinig Top
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
// Mana
1 Mox Ruby
1 Wooded Foothills
1 City of Brass
1 Strip Mine
7 Forest
4 Mountain
The deck runs fast, tight and explosive, without needing to over extend. I think it would be a beast against other sealed decks.
Especially with 10 creatures for 4 equipements (Blinkmoth's nexus shouldn't be counted as a creature for me)