All this organizing and sorting and manipulating only wastes time that could be spent playing/drafting/etc.
That's not entirely true. As I've said before, I normally shuffle our cube while I'm home by myself with nothing else to do. This gets it ready for the next time we draft prior to the event. Also, it doesn't take long at all to separate your deck after you're done playing with it. So, at most, at may take an extra five minutes to pile shuffle the thing, but that is normally time that wouldn't have been spent drafting anyway.
I sort and unsort my cards every time we cube and while I'm doing that we're all catching up since we last saw each other or planning the next time we are going to play again so its not any trouble at all. I actually like to keep it sorted out for how easy it makes it to find certain cards when making changes or whatever.
I use the following method to make booster packs for my cube. The cube is divided in eight categories (five colors, multicolor, artifacts, lands) of equal size. I keep my cube sorted by category, so that I have eight stacks of cards.
1. Shuffle all eight stacks of cards.
2. Each player takes 6 cards from each stack (without looking). Now, everyone has 48 cards.
3. Each player thoroughly suffles his 48 cards together.
4. Then, each player removes 3 cards without looking and puts them away. Now, everyone has 45 cards.
5. Each player divides his 45 cards in three booster packs of 15 cards each.
This way, a single pack may contain no cards of a single category, but the draft itself will contain more or less the same number of cards from each category. This way, the packs are sufficiently randomized, but no color / category is significantly overrepresented.
(I just skimmed over the thread, so maybe I missed that someone already posted this method.)
I used to just random shuffle everything before, but lately I've found this method to be much better.
I separate my cube into 8 sections, 5 colors, artifact, land and multicolor. I put 2 of each color + 1 artifact, land and multicolor on each pack = 13 cards. I then add 1 extra black on one pack, extra red on another and so forth until all the packs got 3 of one color and 2 of the rest. The rest of the cards I fill with random artifact, land or multicolor. The colors are evenly divided, but not the same on each packs. this almost guarantees that no color will be represented more than the other. The result is very varied decks and a good time cubeing:P
If I have the time I'll make sorted packs. Dividing the cube into colors, nonbasics, artifacts, multicolor, and mixing in a portion of each other pile so I end up with seven piles each 50% one color and 50% every other color, then picking a card from each and making packs.
I'd say that overall making random packs out of a totally random pool is 100x easier and just as fun. If you enjoy the increased signaling though and have the time to spare, it may be worth it to make sorted packs.
I don't know how much there is to be gained by nitpicking the very best way to create a partially random pack though.
The one time we tried to riffle shuffle our entire cube to make it random, we failed miserably. Not only did we shuffle for 20 minutes, but the cube still didn't feel randomized. My pile shuffle method has worked out the best for us. We end up with semi random packs and that's good enough for me.
It takes the same amount of time to shuffle. You're either shuffling the entire cube in different piles, or shuffling the entire cube in one pile. You still have to shuffle the entire cube.
But with all random, you don't need to separate the cards into their individual sections at the end of each draft.
It takes the same amount of time to shuffle. You're either shuffling the entire cube in different piles, or shuffling the entire cube in one pile. You still have to shuffle the entire cube.
But with all random, you don't need to separate the cards into their individual sections at the end of each draft.
We shuffled and shuffled and still felt like we had clumpy packs. That method really just didn't work for us at all. Maybe we did it wrong or something. I guess I'd just have to see how you guys do it. Help me to understand it a bit better. After a draft, you shuffle the pool back up and then shuffle it back into the cube before making packs for the next draft? Not only does that seem like it would take a lot more time between drafts than seperating the cards, but I would also not like to see the same cards in two different drafts.
It takes the same amount of time to shuffle. You're either shuffling the entire cube in different piles, or shuffling the entire cube in one pile. You still have to shuffle the entire cube.
Can a mathematician verify this? My gut says that randomizing e.g. 8 piles of 50 unique cards, vs randomizing 400 unique cards at once, does not require an equal amount of time/shuffling. It may even be an order of magnitude difference.
Factor in the time used at the end of each draft to sort every card by color. If the cube is in completely random order before you start shuffling, you don't need to shuffle it as much to ensure a relatively random distribution in the packs.
Initially I would sort the colors/lands/artifact/multi and evenly distribute them in packs -- but I found that this made signaling WAY too easy and as a result people always ended up playing 'their' deck.
That isn't a terrible thing, but I found myself always falling into 5 color control and dominating -- and everyone else would have a little niche that they always tried.
I just shuffle the entire damned thing now and pick 15 at random. Could you get a pack with 15 lands? Sure, but it's pretty unlikely.
IMO it's the way to go. Makes signaling a bit more interesting (sometimes much easier to signal, sometimes harder) -- and you get a nice diverse lineup of decks.
Initially I would sort the colors/lands/artifact/multi and evenly distribute them in packs -- but I found that this made signaling WAY too easy and as a result people always ended up playing 'their' deck.
What was the exact seeding method that lead to this? I just read every post in every shuffling thread on this forum, and i definitely noticed many people who seed were using too-simple methods. It's very important to ensure that you can't 100% decipher your neighbor's pick color, which is why i use a streamlined version of metamind's seed method.
That's not entirely true. As I've said before, I normally shuffle our cube while I'm home by myself with nothing else to do. This gets it ready for the next time we draft prior to the event. Also, it doesn't take long at all to separate your deck after you're done playing with it. So, at most, at may take an extra five minutes to pile shuffle the thing, but that is normally time that wouldn't have been spent drafting anyway.
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1. Shuffle all eight stacks of cards.
2. Each player takes 6 cards from each stack (without looking). Now, everyone has 48 cards.
3. Each player thoroughly suffles his 48 cards together.
4. Then, each player removes 3 cards without looking and puts them away. Now, everyone has 45 cards.
5. Each player divides his 45 cards in three booster packs of 15 cards each.
This way, a single pack may contain no cards of a single category, but the draft itself will contain more or less the same number of cards from each category. This way, the packs are sufficiently randomized, but no color / category is significantly overrepresented.
(I just skimmed over the thread, so maybe I missed that someone already posted this method.)
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
I separate my cube into 8 sections, 5 colors, artifact, land and multicolor. I put 2 of each color + 1 artifact, land and multicolor on each pack = 13 cards. I then add 1 extra black on one pack, extra red on another and so forth until all the packs got 3 of one color and 2 of the rest. The rest of the cards I fill with random artifact, land or multicolor. The colors are evenly divided, but not the same on each packs. this almost guarantees that no color will be represented more than the other. The result is very varied decks and a good time cubeing:P
not saying its the best, but it works for us.
D3@D
I'd say that overall making random packs out of a totally random pool is 100x easier and just as fun. If you enjoy the increased signaling though and have the time to spare, it may be worth it to make sorted packs.
I don't know how much there is to be gained by nitpicking the very best way to create a partially random pack though.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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But with all random, you don't need to separate the cards into their individual sections at the end of each draft.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
We shuffled and shuffled and still felt like we had clumpy packs. That method really just didn't work for us at all. Maybe we did it wrong or something. I guess I'd just have to see how you guys do it. Help me to understand it a bit better. After a draft, you shuffle the pool back up and then shuffle it back into the cube before making packs for the next draft? Not only does that seem like it would take a lot more time between drafts than seperating the cards, but I would also not like to see the same cards in two different drafts.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Can a mathematician verify this? My gut says that randomizing e.g. 8 piles of 50 unique cards, vs randomizing 400 unique cards at once, does not require an equal amount of time/shuffling. It may even be an order of magnitude difference.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
That isn't a terrible thing, but I found myself always falling into 5 color control and dominating -- and everyone else would have a little niche that they always tried.
I just shuffle the entire damned thing now and pick 15 at random. Could you get a pack with 15 lands? Sure, but it's pretty unlikely.
IMO it's the way to go. Makes signaling a bit more interesting (sometimes much easier to signal, sometimes harder) -- and you get a nice diverse lineup of decks.
What was the exact seeding method that lead to this? I just read every post in every shuffling thread on this forum, and i definitely noticed many people who seed were using too-simple methods. It's very important to ensure that you can't 100% decipher your neighbor's pick color, which is why i use a streamlined version of metamind's seed method.