I want to talk about the broken cards in the cube, I'm talking even more broken than the power 9, cards that can easily win you the game pretty much by themselves.
There is probably more that slipped my mind. I didn't include the swords and Jitte since they atleast require creatures to function and as artifacts they can be delt with a little easier.
Mind Twist is banned in some cubes, I'm thinking of banning it myself. Its under costed, and basically reads "taget players discards thier hand". Its never a fun card. I'm thinking of banning it from my own cube. The only thing restricting its power is that it's a lousy late draw. Is Mind Shatter cubable? I don't think its a good replacement anyway, since its just as un-fun as the twist.
I don't have a Library, but it doesn't take an expert to understand why it has honorary P9 status. Persistent card draw on a 0-drop, non-creature permanant is bonkers.
Unlike the other cards, Jace 2.0 doesn't become useless when drawn late. His +2 ability quickly puts him out of reach and ruins any chance your opponent has of finding an answer. Then Jace wins the game with either an inevitible ultimate or persistent card draw.
I currently ban P9, Library and fast mana (partly because I don't like proxies). I feel that Jace has enough flavour and decision making to excuse him for being a little OP. Mind Twist is always an upfront X-for-1 except when drawn really late, I just can't see much reason to keen him in the cube.
Personally, I love playing with broken cards, and I have no intention of cutting a card for being "too good." Cube is the ONLY place I can play Recurring Nightmare anymore, and I have too much fun with that card to shelve it. Same goes for dozens of other cards, just like the ones you mentioned.
Fun goes both ways. I love swatting someone's entire hand with Mind Twist. And of course I hate it when that happens to me. But I don't think that's a good reason to cut a card. I love an environment full of awesome, powerful, busted-ass cards. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Coming from a cuber who runs Un-Cards and Ante cards, and would run Promotional cards if I could snag them, by removing powerful cards, all you do is make your players go down a notch to the next most broken thing and so on and so on, and you in turn dull the skill.
Having the cards is one thing, if you have a player who can consistently draft these cards and break them, then it should be up to your drafters to see this trend and either:
1. Hate those cards out.
2. Draft answers instead of just drafting what they want.
While of course you want players to have fun, but part of the fun (at least to me) is the draft aspect, knowing you can spot the signs of certain decks being built around you.
Personally, I love playing with broken cards, and I have no intention of cutting a card for being "too good." Cube is the ONLY place I can play Recurring Nightmare anymore, and I have too much fun with that card to shelve it. Same goes for dozens of other cards, just like the ones you mentioned.
Fun goes both ways. I love swatting someone's entire hand with Mind Twist. And of course I hate it when that happens to me. But I don't think that's a good reason to cut a card. I love an environment full of awesome, powerful, busted-ass cards. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Couldn't have said it better myself. This is exactly how we all feel about cube drafting around here. Cutting all the broken cards would make me not want to play it anymore.
I'm a huge fan of broken cards as well but Mind Twist is by far the most complained about card by the locals. Sol Ring and Library both fall in this category. Cutting these will make for a slightly more balanced drafting experience if that's what you're going for.
Personally, i refuse to cut cards due to being broken. I feel that is what cube is about, besides, stories where you beat the broken cards are always good! I dont have power or i would run it and i do run Contract from Below:p
Don't cut broken cards. Run enough answers.
As long as your players don't take Naturalize, Force Spike and Pithing Needle as high as they should, they deserve to be owned by Moat, Armageddon, Jitte, Sol Ring and Library.
Mind Twist and other targeted spells being too good? Run Misdirection and Divert to create an environment of threats and answers - or short: player interactions.
but don't run a lowpowered cube just because you can't balance it. Cube is unbalanced and swingy by definition. And i wouldn't want it any other way.
Do you seriously believe you can throw in a Misdirection and Mind Twist will not be ridiculously overpowered? Let's be realistic here, top tier broken cards are really broken.
You already run Hymn to Tourach, its a good analogue for Mind Twist. Stupor is the card I would recommend as a suggestion, its worked really well for me, it gets splashed often, and the less intensive colour commitment over Hymn to Tourach, is sometimes preferable in multi coloured builds.
It is pretty close to a Mind Twist for two, as one of the cards is randomly discarded, and is definitely better than Mind Shatter early in the game/ without fast mana.
Library of Alexandria, if your not running proxy, and your not running Library, I dont see your problem? I think the Cubes that run it, have strong Mana Denial and LD strategy to counter Library, ive seen some lists running Tectonic Edge, along side of Wasteland and Stripmine, and some Cubes run the repeatable Dust Bowl, and the Vindicate, Aftershock and Avalanche Riders. etc. in red.
JtMS, I dont see the problem with the card personally, the only reason I dont Cube JtMS, is because I sold my copy. If there needs to be some "hate" to keep it in check, I would recommend Pyroblast, or Red Elemental Blast, both are good colour hoses. Pyroblast is a good card in my Lo-Power Cube, but Red Elemental Blast got replaced with Active Volcano which is great as a permanent removal, but the REB is definitely the "better" card as its mode of counterspell is a lot better than the AV bouncing an Island.
I don't feel cube is unbalanced and swingy by definition. A cube is just a collection of cards to draft with. It's the players who manipulate it. Just like wizards manipulates their very own card sets so Limited in general is NOT swingy and is balanced to the best they can achieve.
The problem is, power level, brokeness, and "unfairness" are all subjective. Every cut you make makes all the next tier of card overpowered.
Balancing a cube is like getting a haircut. You can try to make every hair the same length, and in the process cut off too much hair trying to be perfect, or you can get it close and realize it's not going to make a huge difference.
That being said, almost all cube choice come down to what your playgroup wants.
I have lost games where I had a turn one Library, a turn one Sol ring where my hand was Mind Twisted away or where I had a Jace on the Table, where I played a turn one tinker on Inkwell... And no I didn't play like an idiot;) You can top deck after a Mind Twist, Jace can be killed or just swarmed, Library does slow you down and aggro can be too fast if you draw really bad, turn one Tinker is great but is a bit of an all in gamble. I remember an epic game where my opponent managed to race my turn one Inkwell! He responded with his own broken moves (Mox, Time Walk,..) and just raced me by playing creatures.
Sure these cards are strong but they don't say 'You win the game'. After playing your 'broken' card you still need to win. Mana floods still happen, god top decks still happen, your opponent's deck might just be too good,... Also the overpowered card is not free, it still is one of cards drawn. So if you get mind twisted for three, your opponent still 'loses' one card.
There are answers to all cards. If super dooper equipment is getting too strong in your cube, add more artifact destruction. If decks cannot deal with strong lands, maybe players should have more respect for Land Destruction?
I think the main issue here is psychological. People dislike random discard, people dislike having their lands destroyed and having the feeling of having a turn less. Sure sometimes the strong cards are game breakers and if you dislike this possibility ban them. But where does one draw the line? Why do people ban Timetwister but are perfectly fine with Jitte?
We drew the line at modern creature power creep. I mean, it does help that our cube is designed to function under 6ed rules and that it is built to be very reminiscent of those days, but we just found things like the modern 6-drops (wurmcoil, titans, etc) to be too likely to win the game on their own. We have been happy to crazy plays like T1 future sight (trust me, this on turn 1 is more broken than library of I win), but the creature creep has been less popular (for example, Baneslayer Angel in our playgroup has the nickname "Baneslaying ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺"). I can't give any real reason as to why one type of brokenness is okay to us and the other isn't, but I am more than happy with the result.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
We drew the line at modern creature power creep. I mean, it does help that our cube is designed to function under 6ed rules and that it is built to be very reminiscent of those days, but we just found things like the modern 6-drops (wurmcoil, titans, etc) to be too likely to win the game on their own. We have been happy to crazy plays like T1 future sight (trust me, this on turn 1 is more broken than library of I win), but the creature creep has been less popular (for example, Baneslayer Angel in our playgroup has the nickname "Baneslaying ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺"). I can't give any real reason as to why one type of brokenness is okay to us and the other isn't, but I am more than happy with the result.
So how is the constant control mirror working out?
Saying you should run more answers to counteract stupidly powerful cards is just wrong. Run all the Misdriections you want, Mind Twist is still going to beat that rock deck. Run all the Stone Rains you want, t1 Library is still going to draw 2-3 cards. Run all the Naturalizes you want, Moat is still going to beat the RB deck. Run all the Chalices of the Void you want, sometimes the person with Black Lotus will be on the play.
In Magic questions are better then answers. Even if you have the answer for the stupidly powerful card your opponent has you won't have it every time they have their card. If you have Pithing Needle for your opponent's Library of Alexandria and they draw it and play it when your Needle is already in play, great. If you draw it and they don't draw Library, bad. If they draw Library and you don't draw Needle, very bad.
That said it really depends on you and your playgroup. My playgroup god tired of non-interactive games caused by fast mana and power. Lets fact it Krosan Grip isn't exactly an all-star at taking out Sol Ring. There are some games that are very fun with fast mana/power/Mind Twist/Moat. There are also a lot of games that are completely non-interactive. It all depends on if you're willing to make that sacrifice.
Hell, I like broken cards. My combo cube is all about turn three wins and shutting your opponent out of the game. However I also like slower games. I'm very happy at the moment to have one cube full of broken and one cube where Cloudgoat Ranger can attack.
I do cut cards for being too broken, though I'm definitely in the minority here. With that in mind, it's your cube, do whatever you and your playgroup thinks is best! Here are the cuts I've made from my cube, along with the reasons:
1. Random discard with the exception of hypnotic specter
-My playgroup and I don't enjoy playing against it.
2. Mass land destruction
-My playgroup and I don't enjoy playing against it.
3. P9 + Library etc.
-Money money money, money!
4. The super equipment (swords + jitte)
-I "cut" them when I traded them for other stuff I wanted for my cube, I haven't missed them at all. Yes they're incredibly good, but it's boring to have cards that you HAVE to pick if you see, you HAVE to maindeck, and your opponent HAS to have answers to or else you win. The quality of my games hasn't suffered since I cut them.
5. Vedalken Shackles
-I haven't played with it, but the idea of mind control on a stick worries me greatly.
I want my cube to center around creature interaction for the most part, which is why the argument of "If X is too strong, add more artifact destruction" doesn't cut it for me. I don't like that so many games revolve around artifacts, so I cut some of the best artifacts.
The other argument I've heard a lot is "aggro gets hurt if you cut this card". If armageddon, mind twist, hymn to tourach, jitte, the swords, etc. never got printed, would none of you run aggro in your cubes? If the answer is yes, then obviously you guys should be running these cards. If you answered no AND you're not appalled by the thought of cutting a good card, then you probably have sympathy for my argument.
I'm a huge fan of broken cards as well but Mind Twist is by far the most complained about card by the locals. Sol Ring and Library both fall in this category. Cutting these will make for a slightly more balanced drafting experience if that's what you're going for.
Library, Sol Ring, and Mind Twist are the only cards that really ever receive any complaints here. I have one guy that complains about them pretty regularly. The rest of the guys don't really complain, but are sure to mention it if they lost to you when you played one of these cards. Kind of an "Of course you won! You had turn one Sol Ring!" But the fact of the matter is, they just wish they'd have had that Sol Ring to play on turn one instead.
If you want to see balanced cube I would goto peasant imo. It seems to be the most well rounded cube type.
We have a C/U cube and, honestly, it hardly ever gets played just because we don't find it as fun because it doesn't have all the broken cards in it. A couple weeks back we had five guys so we decided to do a draft of that cube and a couple of the guys opened their first pack and exclaimed "Wow, these cards suck!". This was mostly because we had just finished a couple drafts with the rare cube.
Sure sometimes the strong cards are game breakers and if you dislike this possibility ban them. But where does one draw the line? Why do people ban Timetwister but are perfectly fine with Jitte?
This is my question as well. How do you draw the line? Why is Mind Twist too good, but Armageddon is ok? I think both can be equally as unfun and game breaking.
This is my question as well. How do you draw the line?
There doesn't have to be a formula for banning cards for power or unfun reasons. It comes down to what your playgroup enjoys or doesn't enjoy. Obviously your playgroup enjoys playing with everything, so you draw the line at cutting nothing. My playgroup doesn't enjoy broken equipment, random discard, and mass land destruction, so I draw the line there.
There's one other possible solution: Enlarge the size of your cube.
This have worked out for my cube. There's not as many games that get busted by Sol Ring or Mind Twist in a 1000 card cube as in a 360 card cube.
That said I love when those game happens once in a while. It's just interesting and seems more unique when it doesn't happen all the time.
But again I don't think power is that busted. Agressive strategies seems to win over Library, and the percentage of games where you win because of power or mindtwist is way lower than winning off a jitte.
An example from a recent draft was my friend that had Sol Ring, Time Walk, Recall and a Mox in his deck. And that was the only power at the table. He didn't win the draft because he didn't draw his power in the right games. The games where it did show up he was probably going to win anyway (even the game where he T2 Liliana, T3 Sorin Markov).
Just for the record, Cloudgoat Ranger regularly attacks in my powered cube.
Same here. Just because broken cards are present in the cube doesn't necessarily mean they're showing up all the time and "ruining" things. Lots of less powerful or slower cards get plenty action on the board here.
Same here. Just because broken cards are present in the cube doesn't necessarily mean they're showing up all the time and "ruining" things. Lots of less powerful or slower cards get plenty action on the board here.
I've noticed that this is the common consensus among those that don't play power or broken cards. A lot of times I hear that they don't like it because power and fast mana ruin a lot of games by making them noninteractive. I've found that this is simply not the case. In all of the cube games we've played since adding in power, I can probably count on two hands the number of games that were actually made noninteractive by fast mana and powerful cards. Library gets destroyed all the time. Fast mana gets answered. Sometimes Sol Ring comes down and can't be used immediately, the same for Moxen. Mind Twist sometimes discards a hand full of crap or gets drawn late. Not every game is decided on a powerful broken card. Most games are decided by turning creatures sideways and pitting one archetype against another.
So how is the constant control mirror working out?
Sexy as hell.
Our group is largely control players, we're pretty happy. Now it is worth pointing out, a lot of this excluded creep is actually in the realm of control finishers.
but you are right, control is the prevailing archetype.
For reference, though, our cube tends to breakdown into the following successful archetypes:
Control (of all stripes)
Niv-Mizzet Combo/control
Armaggeddon Aggro (very very successful when drafted properly)
RedDeckWins (difficult to draft because control likes burn too, but very strong)
Midranges (unusual specimens of the archetype designed to function in
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Just for the record, Cloudgoat Ranger regularly attacks in my powered cube.
Exactly. Since adding Power to my cube, I've seen very few games where there were complete blowouts due to it. Games routinely go past turn 4.
And you dont' have to pick Swords of x and y, Moxen, etc. With the exception of Library and Sol Ring, there are cards I pick over those. I see tough P1P1s all the time.
I have a special issue with the hate for mass land destruction. Mass l.d. really helps aggro shine. It's not bad to play against because it just seals the game. They go creature, creature, 'geddon, and you scoop and move onto the next game. What's the issue?
I include the most broken stuff I can in my cube (still missing Moat and Nether Void), and I'd say about 95% of games are still highly interactive. I still have Eternal Dragon flying in for the kill and Sorin Markov shenanigans. I still have Puppeteer Clique stealing Acidic Slime to blow up Loxodon Warhammer. But every once in a while I have Island, Mox, Mox, Tinker, Inkwell and Swamp, Lotus, Dark Rit, Grave Titan. And those games get remembered!
I do think some people think adding fast mana and/or power turns the format into Vintage. I recommend those people spend some time with a powered cube.
Heres a few culprits that I can think of:
There is probably more that slipped my mind. I didn't include the swords and Jitte since they atleast require creatures to function and as artifacts they can be delt with a little easier.
Mind Twist is banned in some cubes, I'm thinking of banning it myself. Its under costed, and basically reads "taget players discards thier hand". Its never a fun card. I'm thinking of banning it from my own cube. The only thing restricting its power is that it's a lousy late draw. Is Mind Shatter cubable? I don't think its a good replacement anyway, since its just as un-fun as the twist.
I don't have a Library, but it doesn't take an expert to understand why it has honorary P9 status. Persistent card draw on a 0-drop, non-creature permanant is bonkers.
Unlike the other cards, Jace 2.0 doesn't become useless when drawn late. His +2 ability quickly puts him out of reach and ruins any chance your opponent has of finding an answer. Then Jace wins the game with either an inevitible ultimate or persistent card draw.
I currently ban P9, Library and fast mana (partly because I don't like proxies). I feel that Jace has enough flavour and decision making to excuse him for being a little OP. Mind Twist is always an upfront X-for-1 except when drawn really late, I just can't see much reason to keen him in the cube.
My Cube.
Casual Decks
UG Madness GU
W Stonehewer Equipment W
WU Millfolk UW
B Necroskitter (FFA) B
WU Multi-Kicker (FFA) UW
BW Near-Death Experience (FFA) WB
Fun goes both ways. I love swatting someone's entire hand with Mind Twist. And of course I hate it when that happens to me. But I don't think that's a good reason to cut a card. I love an environment full of awesome, powerful, busted-ass cards. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Having the cards is one thing, if you have a player who can consistently draft these cards and break them, then it should be up to your drafters to see this trend and either:
1. Hate those cards out.
2. Draft answers instead of just drafting what they want.
While of course you want players to have fun, but part of the fun (at least to me) is the draft aspect, knowing you can spot the signs of certain decks being built around you.
Couldn't have said it better myself. This is exactly how we all feel about cube drafting around here. Cutting all the broken cards would make me not want to play it anymore.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Do you seriously believe you can throw in a Misdirection and Mind Twist will not be ridiculously overpowered? Let's be realistic here, top tier broken cards are really broken.
RE: Mind Twist
I can understand you sentiments exactly,
You already run Hymn to Tourach, its a good analogue for Mind Twist. Stupor is the card I would recommend as a suggestion, its worked really well for me, it gets splashed often, and the less intensive colour commitment over Hymn to Tourach, is sometimes preferable in multi coloured builds.
It is pretty close to a Mind Twist for two, as one of the cards is randomly discarded, and is definitely better than Mind Shatter early in the game/ without fast mana.
Library of Alexandria, if your not running proxy, and your not running Library, I dont see your problem? I think the Cubes that run it, have strong Mana Denial and LD strategy to counter Library, ive seen some lists running Tectonic Edge, along side of Wasteland and Stripmine, and some Cubes run the repeatable Dust Bowl, and the Vindicate, Aftershock and Avalanche Riders. etc. in red.
JtMS, I dont see the problem with the card personally, the only reason I dont Cube JtMS, is because I sold my copy. If there needs to be some "hate" to keep it in check, I would recommend Pyroblast, or Red Elemental Blast, both are good colour hoses. Pyroblast is a good card in my Lo-Power Cube, but Red Elemental Blast got replaced with Active Volcano which is great as a permanent removal, but the REB is definitely the "better" card as its mode of counterspell is a lot better than the AV bouncing an Island.
Magic Work Station Winston-180 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=315755
Balancing a cube is like getting a haircut. You can try to make every hair the same length, and in the process cut off too much hair trying to be perfect, or you can get it close and realize it's not going to make a huge difference.
That being said, almost all cube choice come down to what your playgroup wants.
Sure these cards are strong but they don't say 'You win the game'. After playing your 'broken' card you still need to win. Mana floods still happen, god top decks still happen, your opponent's deck might just be too good,... Also the overpowered card is not free, it still is one of cards drawn. So if you get mind twisted for three, your opponent still 'loses' one card.
There are answers to all cards. If super dooper equipment is getting too strong in your cube, add more artifact destruction. If decks cannot deal with strong lands, maybe players should have more respect for Land Destruction?
I think the main issue here is psychological. People dislike random discard, people dislike having their lands destroyed and having the feeling of having a turn less. Sure sometimes the strong cards are game breakers and if you dislike this possibility ban them. But where does one draw the line? Why do people ban Timetwister but are perfectly fine with Jitte?
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
So how is the constant control mirror working out?
In Magic questions are better then answers. Even if you have the answer for the stupidly powerful card your opponent has you won't have it every time they have their card. If you have Pithing Needle for your opponent's Library of Alexandria and they draw it and play it when your Needle is already in play, great. If you draw it and they don't draw Library, bad. If they draw Library and you don't draw Needle, very bad.
That said it really depends on you and your playgroup. My playgroup god tired of non-interactive games caused by fast mana and power. Lets fact it Krosan Grip isn't exactly an all-star at taking out Sol Ring. There are some games that are very fun with fast mana/power/Mind Twist/Moat. There are also a lot of games that are completely non-interactive. It all depends on if you're willing to make that sacrifice.
Hell, I like broken cards. My combo cube is all about turn three wins and shutting your opponent out of the game. However I also like slower games. I'm very happy at the moment to have one cube full of broken and one cube where Cloudgoat Ranger can attack.
My secondary "cube".
Really out of date cube thread with pictures.
1. Random discard with the exception of hypnotic specter
-My playgroup and I don't enjoy playing against it.
2. Mass land destruction
-My playgroup and I don't enjoy playing against it.
3. P9 + Library etc.
-Money money money, money!
4. The super equipment (swords + jitte)
-I "cut" them when I traded them for other stuff I wanted for my cube, I haven't missed them at all. Yes they're incredibly good, but it's boring to have cards that you HAVE to pick if you see, you HAVE to maindeck, and your opponent HAS to have answers to or else you win. The quality of my games hasn't suffered since I cut them.
5. Vedalken Shackles
-I haven't played with it, but the idea of mind control on a stick worries me greatly.
I want my cube to center around creature interaction for the most part, which is why the argument of "If X is too strong, add more artifact destruction" doesn't cut it for me. I don't like that so many games revolve around artifacts, so I cut some of the best artifacts.
The other argument I've heard a lot is "aggro gets hurt if you cut this card". If armageddon, mind twist, hymn to tourach, jitte, the swords, etc. never got printed, would none of you run aggro in your cubes? If the answer is yes, then obviously you guys should be running these cards. If you answered no AND you're not appalled by the thought of cutting a good card, then you probably have sympathy for my argument.
Me too. I love the broken plays, even when I hate them (ie when they're against me).
Library, Sol Ring, and Mind Twist are the only cards that really ever receive any complaints here. I have one guy that complains about them pretty regularly. The rest of the guys don't really complain, but are sure to mention it if they lost to you when you played one of these cards. Kind of an "Of course you won! You had turn one Sol Ring!" But the fact of the matter is, they just wish they'd have had that Sol Ring to play on turn one instead.
We have a C/U cube and, honestly, it hardly ever gets played just because we don't find it as fun because it doesn't have all the broken cards in it. A couple weeks back we had five guys so we decided to do a draft of that cube and a couple of the guys opened their first pack and exclaimed "Wow, these cards suck!". This was mostly because we had just finished a couple drafts with the rare cube.
This is my question as well. How do you draw the line? Why is Mind Twist too good, but Armageddon is ok? I think both can be equally as unfun and game breaking.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
There doesn't have to be a formula for banning cards for power or unfun reasons. It comes down to what your playgroup enjoys or doesn't enjoy. Obviously your playgroup enjoys playing with everything, so you draw the line at cutting nothing. My playgroup doesn't enjoy broken equipment, random discard, and mass land destruction, so I draw the line there.
This have worked out for my cube. There's not as many games that get busted by Sol Ring or Mind Twist in a 1000 card cube as in a 360 card cube.
That said I love when those game happens once in a while. It's just interesting and seems more unique when it doesn't happen all the time.
But again I don't think power is that busted. Agressive strategies seems to win over Library, and the percentage of games where you win because of power or mindtwist is way lower than winning off a jitte.
An example from a recent draft was my friend that had Sol Ring, Time Walk, Recall and a Mox in his deck. And that was the only power at the table. He didn't win the draft because he didn't draw his power in the right games. The games where it did show up he was probably going to win anyway (even the game where he T2 Liliana, T3 Sorin Markov).
My Tribal cube
My 93/94 old school cube
My Artifact cube
My Hearthstone Quiz App for iOS
Just for the record, Cloudgoat Ranger regularly attacks in my powered cube.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Same here. Just because broken cards are present in the cube doesn't necessarily mean they're showing up all the time and "ruining" things. Lots of less powerful or slower cards get plenty action on the board here.
I've noticed that this is the common consensus among those that don't play power or broken cards. A lot of times I hear that they don't like it because power and fast mana ruin a lot of games by making them noninteractive. I've found that this is simply not the case. In all of the cube games we've played since adding in power, I can probably count on two hands the number of games that were actually made noninteractive by fast mana and powerful cards. Library gets destroyed all the time. Fast mana gets answered. Sometimes Sol Ring comes down and can't be used immediately, the same for Moxen. Mind Twist sometimes discards a hand full of crap or gets drawn late. Not every game is decided on a powerful broken card. Most games are decided by turning creatures sideways and pitting one archetype against another.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Sexy as hell.
Our group is largely control players, we're pretty happy. Now it is worth pointing out, a lot of this excluded creep is actually in the realm of control finishers.
but you are right, control is the prevailing archetype.
For reference, though, our cube tends to breakdown into the following successful archetypes:
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Exactly. Since adding Power to my cube, I've seen very few games where there were complete blowouts due to it. Games routinely go past turn 4.
And you dont' have to pick Swords of x and y, Moxen, etc. With the exception of Library and Sol Ring, there are cards I pick over those. I see tough P1P1s all the time.
I have a special issue with the hate for mass land destruction. Mass l.d. really helps aggro shine. It's not bad to play against because it just seals the game. They go creature, creature, 'geddon, and you scoop and move onto the next game. What's the issue?
I include the most broken stuff I can in my cube (still missing Moat and Nether Void), and I'd say about 95% of games are still highly interactive. I still have Eternal Dragon flying in for the kill and Sorin Markov shenanigans. I still have Puppeteer Clique stealing Acidic Slime to blow up Loxodon Warhammer. But every once in a while I have Island, Mox, Mox, Tinker, Inkwell and Swamp, Lotus, Dark Rit, Grave Titan. And those games get remembered!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963