I have a 720-card cube.
-No power (no Sol Ring and Library of Alexandria)
-No un-sets
-Yes Portal 3K
I have found that blue is often being underdrafted, when it isn't necessarily underpowered in terms of depth. I simply feel like it doesn't have as many pick 1's as the other colors, and it is often relying on 'bombs' from another color to put it over the edge.
I have a Mana Drain, and I really think adding it would be great for the Cube. I am wondering if people have any experience with Mana Drain in an unpowered Cube. I would still pick Jitte over it, and cards like Armageddon and Ravages of War (among others) could still be better first picks depending on what else you are passing. Let me know what you think.
Btw - I will be adding my Cube list to the list section when I get some time to organize it. I have been cubing for a while; I just haven't had a ton of time to put it in a thread.
I don't think it is soo overpowered compared to Jitte, Armageddon or Recuring nightmare. Sure it can win you a game, but often it is just a counter with a small bonus.
I think psychologically it feels more unfair for a lot of people then other strong cards while they might have the same influence on games. It clearly is a great card, but there will always be cards that are top of their colour.
I have a 720-card cube.
-No power (no Sol Ring and Library of Alexandria)
-No un-sets
-Yes Portal 3K
I have found that blue is often being underdrafted, when it isn't necessarily underpowered in terms of depth. I simply feel like it doesn't have as many pick 1's as the other colors, and it is often relying on 'bombs' from another color to put it over the edge.
I have a Mana Drain, and I really think adding it would be great for the Cube. I am wondering if people have any experience with Mana Drain in an unpowered Cube. I would still pick Jitte over it, and cards like Armageddon and Ravages of War (among others) could still be better first picks depending on what else you are passing. Let me know what you think.
Btw - I will be adding my Cube list to the list section when I get some time to organize it. I have been cubing for a while; I just haven't had a ton of time to put it in a thread.
I would certainly not play Mana Drain, the tempo swing will win you practically every game you play it. The power level is too far above counterspell. Its like comparing Chrome Mox to Mox Emerald. Both die to artifact removal, but only one has no drawbacks.
I run it in my non-powered cube, and I've found it to be a really great addition. Yes it's very powerful, but I like that. Of course I run sol ring and library too, cause I like having high powered plays. But if you've decided not to run Sol Ring and Library of Alexandria because you don't like fun you don't think overpowered cards should be in the cube you probably also shouldn't run Mana Drain.
I added Mana Drain to my unpowered cube because it felt, as OP noticed, like blue had very few solid p1s or bombs. It's been very good so far, but it hasn't been particularly absurd and I don't think we are thinking of cutting it at the moment. We don't run Sol Ring or Library because they're consistent advantage, while Mana Drain is either a one-shot boost or a cheap hard counter that lets you do something amazing next turn.
I play a 360 card unpowered cube (no Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, or Library) and do play Mana Drain. Mana Drain is very powerful, but compared to the other fast mana, there is a heavy color restriction, and the one-shot nature of the mana boost makes the card more comparable to Dark Ritual than to the rest of the fast mana. I think Drain is about on the same power level as Armageddon or Recurring Nightmare. Though to be honest, if I hadn't owned a copy when I built my cube, I might not have included it.
I'd say play it. If you're not playing power, there's probably not an insane amount of color fixing, so 3+ color decks of dumb won't be happening, which is one of the areas in cube Mana Drain can really shine. Unless you have a lot of X spells or spells with high colorless in the CC, and if those spells are cast the turn after a mana drain, then Mana Drain is just another Counterspell with a nice little bonus. Once in a while it'll swing a game, but I don't think it'll do it often enough to be abusive. I say pop it in and try it out. No one here has your cube, so experience will be the best teacher.
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I love Mana Drain! It is my favorite card in Magic, let alone cube. Its perfect flavor-wise and it represents perfectly what blue is trying to do; deny opponents threats, and play big spells from controlling the game. Cube is its only real home, outside of the turn 1 wins of vintage. I ran it long before I ever had any power cards or even Sol Ring/Library, as I liked it enough that it was the first card I bought for $100+. It was and is the best card in blue in the non-combo cube environment, and really is only surpassed by Ancestral Recall and maybe Time Walk, neither of which I run.
Wow, I am very pleased with the fast responses! It sounds like people feel pretty strongly one way or another. I am going to test it when my crew gets together on Friday, but I don't want to base my decision off of one night.
To address the Sol Ring, Library, Mana Crypt power level:
The reason I don't play Sol Ring, for example, is that it is always amazing in essentially every deck. It takes absolutely no skill to pick a Sol Ring, and you always control how absurd it is when you play it. Mana Drain is insane, but it is UU and reactive. The fact that you are going to play a solid blue deck, not just a splash of blue, is pretty fantastic in terms of how the card plays out. It's not like Armageddon where you can be running some kind of creature-based aggro deck and suddenly splash white in pack 3 for your aggro bomb.
Keep the comments coming; the strong opinions on both sides are interesting. I want to make sure the fact that I now own an English Mana Drain is not affecting my decision.
I really do not see Mana Drain as overpowered. It is a great card. But it only really leverages its draining bonus early (for the most part). Draining for 3, untapping, dropping a land, and playing a 6 drop is nearly the best scenario. In cube draft, that isn't impossible to come back from. You can still use a removal spell to kill the threat. Late game Mana Drain might allow for its caster to play something enormous with another counter for backup, but that is quite a few "ifs" and on top of that, it is just as likely that you have Mana Drain with nothing to ramp into and it is just Counterspell.
Basically, Mana Drain is very good. Sometimes it ramps into something awesome and the threat goes unanswered and a game is won. Sometimes it is just a Counterspell. In cube draft things should be absurd sometimes. I would take a lot of cards over Mana Drain P1P1 like any of the good equipments, or planeswalkers, Treachery, Moat, Phyrexian Arena, Siege-Gang Commander, Sylvan Library, etc. etc.
Draining for 3, untapping, dropping a land, and playing a 6 drop is nearly the best scenario. In cube draft, that isn't impossible to come back from. You can still use a removal spell to kill the threat.
except in cube removal spells usually aren't that great against 6 drops.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Mana drain 'fizzles' quite often. With fizzling I mean that the free mana doesn't do a whole lot. Sometimes nothing, sometimes just a free signet or it gives you mana enough to keep counter mana open.
It sure is a super counter and one of the cube stronger cards, but lets not pretend it always gives broken plays. Yas turn three Wurmcoil Engine is crazy, but that is not the norm and neither is that impossible to come back from.
except in cube removal spells usually aren't that great against 6 drops.
True, they will still get a spell's worth of value from most 6+ drops. But it isn't always going to be some broken irreversible play. Mana Drain is a great spell, like I said before. It just isn't ancestral recall or anything. I see no reason that it couldn't be included in uncommon cubes so its inclusion in rare cubes really shouldn't be an issue.
Amusingly, I think the 6-drop-on-turn-3 aspect of Mana Drain is more broken in rare cubes than it is in uncommon cubes - there's a lot of fantastic removal at common/uncommon (Dismember, Go For the Throat, Doom Blade, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, etc.) but the high-value 6-drops that are run in cube are almost all rare. Wurmcoil, Sphinx of Jwar, Titans, Kokusho, etc.
Amusingly, I think the 6-drop-on-turn-3 aspect of Mana Drain is more broken in rare cubes than it is in uncommon cubes - there's a lot of fantastic removal at common/uncommon (Dismember, Go For the Throat, Doom Blade, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile) but the high-value 6-drops that are run in cube are almost all rare. Wurmcoil, Sphinx of Jwar, Titans, Kokusho, etc.
Though Jetting Glasskite is still a pain.
I agree that mana drain gets more powerful when you have more powerful things to ramp into. Some of those threats are still fairly lethal when cast fairly anyway.
I guess I have made my views of mana drain clear. Then again I don't see a lot of people clambering about its overpowered-ness.
I would run power if it was available to me. But it isn't. And I might run proxies if there was a way to get them cheaply that didn't involve me making them. But there isn't. So I run a powerless cube for now. But the point still stands that I do run it in a cube without power and I'm glad I've added it and enjoyed playing the cube more since I've added it.
I would certainly not play Mana Drain, the tempo swing will win you practically every game you play it. The power level is too far above counterspell. Its like comparing Chrome Mox to Mox Emerald. Both die to artifact removal, but only one has no drawbacks.
This has not been my experience at all. Mana Drain has been in my cube with and without power for years. It wins some games but usually isn't super-OMGBROKEN. Part of the problem is that it is colorless mana and decks often don't have the mana or cards line up to drop something huge the turn after they play it. I often use the mana for a utility artifact like Icy or Coalition Relic.
Before M10 I mana burned pretty often from Mana Drain.
Mana Drain is very good but I'm not cutting what is at best the 3rd most powerful blue spell in un-powered cube (Jace2, Upheaval, maybe Jace3 and maybe Veldalken Shackles).
-No power (no Sol Ring and Library of Alexandria)
-No un-sets
-Yes Portal 3K
I have found that blue is often being underdrafted, when it isn't necessarily underpowered in terms of depth. I simply feel like it doesn't have as many pick 1's as the other colors, and it is often relying on 'bombs' from another color to put it over the edge.
I have a Mana Drain, and I really think adding it would be great for the Cube. I am wondering if people have any experience with Mana Drain in an unpowered Cube. I would still pick Jitte over it, and cards like Armageddon and Ravages of War (among others) could still be better first picks depending on what else you are passing. Let me know what you think.
Btw - I will be adding my Cube list to the list section when I get some time to organize it. I have been cubing for a while; I just haven't had a ton of time to put it in a thread.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
I think psychologically it feels more unfair for a lot of people then other strong cards while they might have the same influence on games. It clearly is a great card, but there will always be cards that are top of their colour.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
I would certainly not play Mana Drain, the tempo swing will win you practically every game you play it. The power level is too far above counterspell. Its like comparing Chrome Mox to Mox Emerald. Both die to artifact removal, but only one has no drawbacks.
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you don't like funyou don't think overpowered cards should be in the cube you probably also shouldn't run Mana Drain.To address the Sol Ring, Library, Mana Crypt power level:
The reason I don't play Sol Ring, for example, is that it is always amazing in essentially every deck. It takes absolutely no skill to pick a Sol Ring, and you always control how absurd it is when you play it. Mana Drain is insane, but it is UU and reactive. The fact that you are going to play a solid blue deck, not just a splash of blue, is pretty fantastic in terms of how the card plays out. It's not like Armageddon where you can be running some kind of creature-based aggro deck and suddenly splash white in pack 3 for your aggro bomb.
Keep the comments coming; the strong opinions on both sides are interesting. I want to make sure the fact that I now own an English Mana Drain is not affecting my decision.
I know you know what he means.... He just wants more powerful plays
Basically, Mana Drain is very good. Sometimes it ramps into something awesome and the threat goes unanswered and a game is won. Sometimes it is just a Counterspell. In cube draft things should be absurd sometimes. I would take a lot of cards over Mana Drain P1P1 like any of the good equipments, or planeswalkers, Treachery, Moat, Phyrexian Arena, Siege-Gang Commander, Sylvan Library, etc. etc.
except in cube removal spells usually aren't that great against 6 drops.
It sure is a super counter and one of the cube stronger cards, but lets not pretend it always gives broken plays. Yas turn three Wurmcoil Engine is crazy, but that is not the norm and neither is that impossible to come back from.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
What's the confusion?
True, they will still get a spell's worth of value from most 6+ drops. But it isn't always going to be some broken irreversible play. Mana Drain is a great spell, like I said before. It just isn't ancestral recall or anything. I see no reason that it couldn't be included in uncommon cubes so its inclusion in rare cubes really shouldn't be an issue.
Though Jetting Glasskite is still a pain.
I agree that mana drain gets more powerful when you have more powerful things to ramp into. Some of those threats are still fairly lethal when cast fairly anyway.
I guess I have made my views of mana drain clear. Then again I don't see a lot of people clambering about its overpowered-ness.
My hatred of doing arts/crafts stuff surpasses my desire to have power in my cube.
This has not been my experience at all. Mana Drain has been in my cube with and without power for years. It wins some games but usually isn't super-OMGBROKEN. Part of the problem is that it is colorless mana and decks often don't have the mana or cards line up to drop something huge the turn after they play it. I often use the mana for a utility artifact like Icy or Coalition Relic.
Before M10 I mana burned pretty often from Mana Drain.
Mana Drain is very good but I'm not cutting what is at best the 3rd most powerful blue spell in un-powered cube (Jace2, Upheaval, maybe Jace3 and maybe Veldalken Shackles).
My secondary "cube".
Really out of date cube thread with pictures.
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