Mana Drain late-ish into Upheaval is also a giant beating (as are most plays with Upheaval).
-AA
I can't believe this has never happened in our cube. Maybe because Upheaval and Mana Drain in the same deck would be very rare, our playgroup understands the power of Upheaval and it has only gone later than third once or twice in our history of cubing.
Mana Drain was much more interesting with mana burn.
I think it is fair to say that even in an unpowered cube, there will be really powerful cards. Mana Drain can be one of them, no problem. I cut it because I cut fast mana, where Mana Drain probably belongs to the Mana Vault/Grim Monolith type of offenders (lets you play something way ahead of the curve, but only about once).
Mana Drain was much more interesting with mana burn.
I think it is fair to say that even in an unpowered cube, there will be really powerful cards. Mana Drain can be one of them, no problem. I cut it because I cut fast mana, where Mana Drain probably belongs to the Mana Vault/Grim Monolith type of offenders (lets you play something way ahead of the curve, but only about once).
This seems to be a reasonable approach. I don't understand why someone would object to the fast mana you listed, but feel that mana drain was appropriate.
Mana Drain was much more interesting with mana burn.
I think it is fair to say that even in an unpowered cube, there will be really powerful cards. Mana Drain can be one of them, no problem. I cut it because I cut fast mana, where Mana Drain probably belongs to the Mana Vault/Grim Monolith type of offenders (lets you play something way ahead of the curve, but only about once).
A lot of cards were more interesting with mana burn, but that ship has well sailed.
Yes, getting rid of mana burn is one the rules changes that has little upside apart from making the game easier for dummies. I can live with not having interupts, having a stack, not having a stack in combat, play becoming a battlefield, tapped creatures still dealing damage when they block,... But the mana burn is a sad change. As is the fact that tapping artifacts has no impact anymore.
6 and a half years later since this discussion and we've got a mana drain reprint and a card which was once out of my price range is now within consideration.
I also have an unpowered cube that has limited fast mana through rocks (no sol ring, mana vault, grim monolith, etc.) and my lack of experience playing with/against mana drain is giving me a hard time trying to figure out if it has a place in my cube without feeling overpowered/unfair.
What gets brought up a lot and seems to be the tipping point for people is that you can play a 6 drop on turn 3. This is the same measuring stick as grim monolith which keeps it out of a lot of peoples unpowered cubes.
My issue is that I still play cards like natural order, which with a dork can drop a turn three dragonlord atarka or primeval titan yet natural order never has the same complaints as an unpowered offender as mana drain or grim monolith.
Why is that? (i have some basic thoughts on this but am hoping to have some discussion to see what factors i may have not considered.)
It's not just that you have a 6 or 5 drop turn 3, but you got that while also countering their spell. So while stopping their game plan, you also massively accelerate yours, and the bigger the spell you counter the bigger the back break is. Imagine if Natural Order also blew up a land or cultivated up two lands when you cast it, Mana Drain kinda does the same thing except without the consistency in results.
And as a floor it's counterspell, meaning that it always has a shot of being a great draw no matter the turn. If I top deck sol ring with 8 mana out, it's probably not improving my board a ton, whereas counterspell is counterspell and it could be argued it's better when you are more likely to have bigger spells to stop with it.
I can't believe this has never happened in our cube. Maybe because Upheaval and Mana Drain in the same deck would be very rare, our playgroup understands the power of Upheaval and it has only gone later than third once or twice in our history of cubing.
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
I think it is fair to say that even in an unpowered cube, there will be really powerful cards. Mana Drain can be one of them, no problem. I cut it because I cut fast mana, where Mana Drain probably belongs to the Mana Vault/Grim Monolith type of offenders (lets you play something way ahead of the curve, but only about once).
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
This seems to be a reasonable approach. I don't understand why someone would object to the fast mana you listed, but feel that mana drain was appropriate.
A lot of cards were more interesting with mana burn, but that ship has well sailed.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
6 and a half years later since this discussion and we've got a mana drain reprint and a card which was once out of my price range is now within consideration.
I also have an unpowered cube that has limited fast mana through rocks (no sol ring, mana vault, grim monolith, etc.) and my lack of experience playing with/against mana drain is giving me a hard time trying to figure out if it has a place in my cube without feeling overpowered/unfair.
What gets brought up a lot and seems to be the tipping point for people is that you can play a 6 drop on turn 3. This is the same measuring stick as grim monolith which keeps it out of a lot of peoples unpowered cubes.
My issue is that I still play cards like natural order, which with a dork can drop a turn three dragonlord atarka or primeval titan yet natural order never has the same complaints as an unpowered offender as mana drain or grim monolith.
Why is that? (i have some basic thoughts on this but am hoping to have some discussion to see what factors i may have not considered.)
And as a floor it's counterspell, meaning that it always has a shot of being a great draw no matter the turn. If I top deck sol ring with 8 mana out, it's probably not improving my board a ton, whereas counterspell is counterspell and it could be argued it's better when you are more likely to have bigger spells to stop with it.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic