It was mostly a joke. But at the same time, Wizards will often create cards that they feel will benefit particular limiting formats, by printing cards like Evolving Wilds instead of reprinting Terramorphic Expanse. They're aware that the second copy will benefit formats like EDH, Singleton constructed, Pauper/Peasant and subsequently the cube. The design intent isn't to give Cube a second copy, but it is printed because they feel like a second copy would be needed and beneficial for those kinds of formats. That reasoning is good enough for me, even though it may look arbitrary out of context.
I don't get the slippery slope arguments either. Why does running 2 of X mean you have to consider running multiples of any Y or Z? It's only a problem if you let it be one.
Because I like to be consistent within the rules. In a way this is the same reason I don't 'do' casual decks. I always want to go for the best option possible. If I got rid of the singleton rule, it would depend on what my goal was what I would do. But it doesn't seem consistent to only do it here and there without a good reason.
Maybe I am too anal or too spikey or something, but without a rule (singleton) I would push the envelope to the max. There has to be clear limitations or a very precise goal to how you build your custom set. Only adding an extra Duress would seem very arbitrary to me. There would be so many decks or archetypes that could be made stronger or more interesting gamewise by breaking the singleton rule, that it would feel unlogical or unfair to me to stop at that Duress. Why does black deserve that, but not red aggro? Or why just Duress and not some other cards as well?
Because I like to be consistent within the rules. In a way this is the same reason I don't 'do' casual decks. I always want to go for the best option possible. If I got rid of the singleton rule, it would depend on what my goal was what I would do. But it doesn't seem consistent to only do it here and there without a good reason.
Maybe I am too anal or too spikey or something, but without a rule (singleton) I would push the envelope to the max. There has to be clear limitations or a very precise goal to how you build your custom set. Only adding an extra Duress would seem very arbitrary to me. There would be so many decks or archetypes that could be made stronger or more interesting gamewise by breaking the singleton rule, that it would feel unlogical or unfair to me to stop at that Duress. Why does black deserve that, but not red aggro? Or why just Duress and not some other cards as well?
Every last bit of this.
The design is in place to provide a framework to build around. It would be like playing standard, but allowing ABU dual lands. The restrictions as to what cards can go in is what defines every Magic format. The cube has its restrictions and they breed creativity just like deckbuilding in other formats does. There's no guideline for running 2 duress to improve black, but not doing it for other colors. Why is Duress special? There's nothing to say where to start or stop at that point. If you're doing it to "improve" the cube, than the ultimate goal will be to replace everything with multiple copies of the very best cards and have it play like Legacy. If the goal is to provide challenging decisions, interesting drafts, variety in archetypes and cards that are seen and creating a fun, diverse environment ...that's what the singleton guideline helps provide for the cube.
Only adding an extra Duress would seem very arbitrary to me.
I feel the exact opposite. When I build a cube, I want it to create some sort of gameplay experience. If that gameplay experience is best created with 0, 1, 2, 4, 8 or 360 copies of duress, that is the number I am going to put in. Even if duress is the only card that has more then one copy, this fact is not arbitrary at all. Its a calculated design decision intended to fulfill a specific goal. It is the exact opposite of arbitrary.
I feel the exact opposite. When I build a cube, I want it to create some sort of gameplay experience. If that gameplay experience is best created with 0, 1, 2, 4, 8 or 360 copies of duress, that is the number I am going to put in. Even if duress is the only card that has more then one copy, this fact is not arbitrary at all. Its a calculated design decision intended to fulfill a specific goal. It is the exact opposite of arbitrary.
I understand where you're coming from, and I've thought about doing it as well. But the main reason I don't is because new sets excite me. If I choose to break the singleton rule, then I can have the most efficient cube I want. Which makes new sets more boring. When they printed Diregraf Ghoul in Innistrad, I was super happy that I was going to be able to shore up some of blacks weaknesses (needed more 1 drops). Every time a new set comes out I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of goodies I get to help my cube out with. If I had broken the singleton rule before Innistrad, I would have already had the perfect amount of 1 drops I needed already, so while the ghoul would have been great in the sense that I get to upgrade the creature quality, the creature role is still the same. I know that creature upgrades already happen, but I'm not as excited when they print a better card of what I have then when the print another card of what I want in addition.
This is just one other reason to the many others have posted about it. But I think that this is a relevant point to bring up, even if it is a reason that has nothing to do with gameplay.
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I feel the exact opposite. When I build a cube, I want it to create some sort of gameplay experience. If that gameplay experience is best created with 0, 1, 2, 4, 8 or 360 copies of duress, that is the number I am going to put in. Even if duress is the only card that has more then one copy, this fact is not arbitrary at all. Its a calculated design decision intended to fulfill a specific goal. It is the exact opposite of arbitrary.
I am ok with this if I would consider it fully calculated if I were doing something similar. If you do this with Duress, you don't have the do the same with other cards., but I would only feel it to be ok if I looked at every card in my cube and checked if it deserved another copy. Just adding one duplicate without thinking this concept through for the entire cube, feels a bit too 'casual', unlogical to me.
I am sure you could approach this differently. A more ad hoc approach, less globally consistant, more single goal orientated. But that wouldn't tick psychologically for me.
I personally like the singleton rule because it's just easier. If I decided I wanted two copies of Duress, then I could do that, but now where do I draw the line? Do I play Squadron Hawks now? What about just playing more copies of Goblin Guide or Jackal Pup to get up the red 1 drops? How about more Gravecrawlers? Once you break the rule, it can be hard to find that line, so following the rule strictly makes it easier to decide what to do.
I don't care if other people want to run multiples, but for me, one copy of each card seems like a good thing.
I run 2 copies of some cards because it some cases I don't have certain cards. I don't have cards like Cultivate, Chainer's Edict, Ponder or Preordain. In my cube I have 2 Diabolic Edicts, 2 Kodama's Reach, 2 Brainstorms and 2 Grand Colesium. I decided rather than buying the extra cards I will have 2 copies of certain cards in my cube. These are the only cards I have duplicates of in my cube.
I feel the exact opposite. When I build a cube, I want it to create some sort of gameplay experience. If that gameplay experience is best created with 0, 1, 2, 4, 8 or 360 copies of duress, that is the number I am going to put in. Even if duress is the only card that has more then one copy, this fact is not arbitrary at all. Its a calculated design decision intended to fulfill a specific goal. It is the exact opposite of arbitrary.
And since the gameplay experience I aim to create involves making the most fun, exciting & powerful environment I can with the most variety possible, the singleton rule works perfectly for me. My cube maxim requires the singleton rule in order to avoid 8x Goblin Guide as my only red 1-drops, because that's what I'd want if that's what was available.
I create the exact gameplay experience I want without adding duplicates. Adding in more copies of one card and not another would just detract from our experience. YMMV of course, but we enjoy playing a singleton environment; otherwise we wouldn't do it.
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This is just one other reason to the many others have posted about it. But I think that this is a relevant point to bring up, even if it is a reason that has nothing to do with gameplay.
I think it absolutely does have something to do with gameplay. Variety and diversity between all of your choices is part of what draws you to the cube. You'd rather play a Carnophage, a Diregraf Ghoul and a Gravecrawler than x3 Gravecrawlers in your deck (despite the latter being more powerful) because the first is more interesting. I think it's important to make your drafts interesting. And if variety and diversity is important to you (which is sounds like it is, and it certainly is to me) ...that's part of the reason why we enforce a singleton rule for the cube.
And since the gameplay experience I aim to create involves making the most fun, exciting & powerful environment I can with the most variety possible, the singleton rule works perfectly for me. My cube maxim requires the singleton rule in order to avoid 8x Goblin Guide as my only red 1-drops, because that's what I'd want if that's what was available.
But, clearly you don't want eight Goblin Guides. If your cube maxim requires you to create an environment that you don't want, then it seems the maxim is poorly designed. Why would you a choose a maxim that cannot give you the experience you want? Why would you chose an arbitrary limitation that only partially provides what you want (Armageddon and Ravages of War, etc)?
I'm glad the singleton rule works for you, but I don't see the appeal. But that's fine, there are a lot of Magic related things I don't see the appeal of. And thanks to cube, I don't have to!
I feel the exact opposite. When I build a cube, I want it to create some sort of gameplay experience. If that gameplay experience is best created with 0, 1, 2, 4, 8 or 360 copies of duress, that is the number I am going to put in. Even if duress is the only card that has more then one copy, this fact is not arbitrary at all. Its a calculated design decision intended to fulfill a specific goal. It is the exact opposite of arbitrary.
I think you're misunderstanding my post. I'm not saying that because I run 2 copies of Duress that I have to run 2 copies of Goblin Guide, I'm saying this.
If I decide to no longer enforce the singleton rule because I want to encourage better gameplay in a way that multiple copies of a card allows, then I logically can't stop without considering running multiples of other cards.
I find it to be statistically improbable that my cube will provide better gameplay with 2 copies of Duress, but with 1 copy of everything else. Once I've decided to play 2 copies of duress, even if I don't end up adding more copies of other cards, it would be irresponsible of me to not consider it. I have to now consider whether 2 Goblin Guides would make red aggro better, or whether 2 damnations would help black control, or whether 2 sinkholes would help black LD.
I'm not saying I'd necessarily make all of those changes, but once you take away the restriction, you can't just say "OK, I'm going to run 2 copies of Duress and that's it", you have to establish where the line is again. In this thread we've seen somebody who runs doubles of cards that are functionally very similar to other cards that exist that he doesn't own (2 Cultivates instead of 1 Cultivate and 1 Kodama's Reach, 2 Diabolic Edicts instead of 1 Diabolic Edict and 1 Chainer's Edict). I know Kenny Mayer also runs doubles of the shocks and fetches, which provides a good line in the sand.
While those are not decisions I'm prepared to make for my cube, I understand the decision and it's easy to see where to go from there as you continue to edit the cube. If I add a second Duress, I don't know where the line would become drawn, and that's a big part of why I don't want to do it.
I think you're misunderstanding my post. I'm not saying that because I run 2 copies of Duress that I have to run 2 copies of Goblin Guide, I'm saying this.
If I decide to no longer enforce the singleton rule because I want to encourage better gameplay in a way that multiple copies of a card allows, then I logically can't stop without considering running multiples of other cards.
I find it to be statistically improbable that my cube will provide better gameplay with 2 copies of Duress, but with 1 copy of everything else. Once I've decided to play 2 copies of duress, even if I don't end up adding more copies of other cards, it would be irresponsible of me to not consider it. I have to now consider whether 2 Goblin Guides would make red aggro better, or whether 2 damnations would help black control, or whether 2 sinkholes would help black LD.
I'm not saying I'd necessarily make all of those changes, but once you take away the restriction, you can't just say "OK, I'm going to run 2 copies of Duress and that's it", you have to establish where the line is again. In this thread we've seen somebody who runs doubles of cards that are functionally very similar to other cards that exist that he doesn't own (2 Cultivates instead of 1 Cultivate and 1 Kodama's Reach, 2 Diabolic Edicts instead of 1 Diabolic Edict and 1 Chainer's Edict). I know Kenny Mayer also runs doubles of the shocks and fetches, which provides a good line in the sand.
While those are not decisions I'm prepared to make for my cube, I understand the decision and it's easy to see where to go from there as you continue to edit the cube. If I add a second Duress, I don't know where the line would become drawn, and that's a big part of why I don't want to do it.
But I assume you run multiple copies of basic lands, so clearly you have decided where to draw the line on multiples, no? Obviously different lines are closer together or father apart, but we all still have them drawn.
In the end, I think the debate is very similar to color balance or power level restrictions. We all draw the line somewhere, so let's not pretend like we don't.
Multiple basic lands are allowed in every format. Is that really your argument here? That because you can have multiple Swamps in your deck, that including 10 Gravecrawlers in your cube is the same thing? Come on.
But, clearly you don't want eight Goblin Guides. If your cube maxim requires you to create an environment that you don't want, then it seems the maxim is poorly designed. Why would you a choose a maxim that cannot give you the experience you want? Why would you chose an arbitrary limitation that only partially provides what you want (Armageddon and Ravages of War, etc)?
I'm glad the singleton rule works for you, but I don't see the appeal. But that's fine, there are a lot of Magic related things I don't see the appeal of. And thanks to cube, I don't have to!
What? My maxim creates exactly the environment I want. I want diversity, variety, balance and power. With creative problem solving to meet those requirements. The singleton rule bolsters that maxim.
You don't have to run 1-ofs if you don't want to. But the singleton rule helps sculpt the exact format that I've come to love so much. Drafting multiples doesn't have nearly the appeal to me as running a singleton environment does. If it did, I'd run multiples. Pretty simple.
Multiple basic lands are allowed in every format. Is that really your argument here? That because you can have multiple Swamps in your deck, that including 10 Gravecrawlers in your cube is the same thing? Come on.
I know! It's about as dumb as saying because you add one specific effect in doubles, you will run (or have no reason not to run) 10 Gravecrawlers. Why are you allowed to apply common sense, but I am not?
The point is, there's no reason to run multiple effects in one area and not in another. The cube functions with another cycle of lands instead of 10 more fetches. Just as it functions with 5 other black 2-power 1-drops that aren't gravecrawlers. Improving the cube in one area by breaking the singleton rule is just as needed and just as arbitrary as it would be to do it in another area.
But I assume you run multiple copies of basic lands, so clearly you have decided where to draw the line on multiples, no? Obviously different lines are closer together or father apart, but we all still have them drawn.
In the end, I think the debate is very similar to color balance or power level restrictions. We all draw the line somewhere, so let's not pretend like we don't.
Where are you drawing the line when you include multiple copies of duress? Yes, I've drawn it at basic lands, that's the only thing I allow multiples of. Kenny Mayer draws his line at Shocks and Fetches. When you allow a second copy of Duress, where are you drawing the line?
Look, if you want to run multiples, that's fine. But I haven't heard anyone propose a second line drawn that doesn't allow you to run multiples of everything but does allow you to run multiples of Duress. If that's the case, then why aren't you running 2 Goblin Guides?
More articulately: Where are you drawing the line that allows for multiple copies of Duress but not multiple copies of every other effect the cube would like more of but wizards hasn't printed?
My main objection is people suggesting that you run multiples of Duress but don't want to run multiple copies of something else, and have no real reason.
I would also like to know that. Where is the line drawn, how is it justified, and why isn't it as arbitrary as any other theoretical break in the singleton rule?
What? My maxim creates exactly the environment I want. I want diversity, variety, balance and power. With creative problem solving to meet those requirements. The singleton rule bolsters that maxim.
If this is true, this statement doesn't make sense: "My cube maxim requires the singleton rule in order to avoid 8x Goblin Guide as my only red 1-drops, because that's what I'd want if that's what was available."
Your maxim says "You must run 8 Goblin Guides as your only red 1-drops."
Your design sensibilities say "I don't want to run 8 Goblin Guides."
So, you add an arbitrary limiter that says "I cannot run more then 1 Goblin Guide."
Your maxim and your design sensibilities are clearly at odds. I'm glad the singleton rules works for you as a resolution to this dissonance. I simply do not see the appeal of this approach.
If this is true, this statement doesn't make sense: "My cube maxim requires the singleton rule in order to avoid 8x Goblin Guide as my only red 1-drops, because that's what I'd want if that's what was available."
Your maxim says "You must run 8 Goblin Guides as your only red 1-drops."
Your design sensibilities say "I don't want to run 8 Goblin Guides."
So, you add an arbitrary limiter that says "I cannot run more then 1 Goblin Guide."
Your maxim and your design sensibilities are clearly at odds. I'm glad the singleton rules works for you as a resolution to this dissonance. I simply do not see the appeal of this approach.
Simple Direct Questions.
If you are suggesting that some hypothetical cube run 2 Duresses to increase the density of good black discard and 2 Goblin Guides to increase the density of good red 1 drops, where are you drawing the line on running multiples?
- Are you only running 2 copies of things or can you run 3-8 of them?
- Are you only running multiple copies of things that cost 1 mana?
- Are you considering multiples of every card in the cube?
- If so, are you running more copies of Sinkhole/Dark Ritual/Rofellos/Mind Stone?
My point is, it gets out of hand fast. For me, I have chosen not to expand to run multiples because I don't have a good idea for where to draw the line. I'm happy to consider some other place to draw the line, but I haven't heard one yet. Are you proposing that we draw no line and just run multiples of anything we want?
Your maxim and your design sensibilities are clearly at odds.
No they're not.
My maxim values diversity and variance. Breaking the singleton rule is in conflict with my maxim.
Running multiples simply to improve the quality of the worst cards to make them closer to the best cards in one area and not another is the only problem I see here. It wouldn't make sense to add multiples in one section and not in another.
More articulately: Where are you drawing the line that allows for multiple copies of Duress but not multiple copies of every other effect the cube would like more of but wizards hasn't printed?
You pick the cards that make your cube play exactly how you want it to. If running exactly one of every card makes you cube run exactly how I want it to, then I will run exactly one copy of each card. If running 538 different cards and 2 duress makes the cube run exactly how I want it to, then I will run 538 unique cards and 2 duress. If running 457 unique cards, 38 cards with 2 copies each and one card with 7 copies makes the cube run exactly how I want it, then I will run 457 unique cards, 38 cards with 2 copies each and one card with 7 copies.
The line is what gets you the play experience you want. If a singleton rule gets you there, then use it. I won't understand it, but the goal of YOUR cube is not to make ME happy.
My maxim values diversity and variance. Breaking the singleton rule is in conflict with my maxim.
Then you don't actually have a singleton rule.
If, by your maxim, you wouldn't include a duplicate copy of a card, then the singleton rule is extraneous. The "highlander nature" of your cube is due to adherence to your maxim, not the result of some arbitrary limitation.
Are you proposing that we draw no line and just run multiples of anything we want?
Yes.
However, I find that most cube players enjoy diversity and that even without a singleton rule, most cubes will tend towards having few or no multiples. I just don't see a point in arbitrarily disallowing multiples when clearly sometimes they can be beneficial.
I would also like to know that. Where is the line drawn, how is it justified, and why isn't it as arbitrary as any other theoretical break in the singleton rule?
It is. Everyone's justification is just as arbitrary as the next. We are all beholden to only the rule of making the environment we want to. How is running two duress because you think it will make for a better environment any different than allowing functional reprints, or multiple basics, or not allowing a card due to it warping the environment? I'm sure you have reasons that you find valid, but that doesn't mean it is a different line.
I thought cube owners would understand this better than anyone. We all make up our own rules, and break them when there is good reason to do so. If you haven't had good reason yet, then good for you.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
Where are you drawing the line when you include multiple copies of duress? Yes, I've drawn it at basic lands, that's the only thing I allow multiples of. Kenny Mayer draws his line at Shocks and Fetches. When you allow a second copy of Duress, where are you drawing the line?
Look, if you want to run multiples, that's fine. But I haven't heard anyone propose a second line drawn that doesn't allow you to run multiples of everything but does allow you to run multiples of Duress. If that's the case, then why aren't you running 2 Goblin Guides?
More articulately: Where are you drawing the line that allows for multiple copies of Duress but not multiple copies of every other effect the cube would like more of but wizards hasn't printed?
My main objection is people suggesting that you run multiples of Duress but don't want to run multiple copies of something else, and have no real reason.
Well it was an example someone else gave, but the reason you do anything in cube is to create a better environment, either draft, play, or both. Generally, I would probably only break the singleton rule if I had a perceived need that could not be solved in what I deem as a proper manner within the singleton rule. Thus, I will not add Duress.
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Because I like to be consistent within the rules. In a way this is the same reason I don't 'do' casual decks. I always want to go for the best option possible. If I got rid of the singleton rule, it would depend on what my goal was what I would do. But it doesn't seem consistent to only do it here and there without a good reason.
Maybe I am too anal or too spikey or something, but without a rule (singleton) I would push the envelope to the max. There has to be clear limitations or a very precise goal to how you build your custom set. Only adding an extra Duress would seem very arbitrary to me. There would be so many decks or archetypes that could be made stronger or more interesting gamewise by breaking the singleton rule, that it would feel unlogical or unfair to me to stop at that Duress. Why does black deserve that, but not red aggro? Or why just Duress and not some other cards as well?
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
Every last bit of this.
The design is in place to provide a framework to build around. It would be like playing standard, but allowing ABU dual lands. The restrictions as to what cards can go in is what defines every Magic format. The cube has its restrictions and they breed creativity just like deckbuilding in other formats does. There's no guideline for running 2 duress to improve black, but not doing it for other colors. Why is Duress special? There's nothing to say where to start or stop at that point. If you're doing it to "improve" the cube, than the ultimate goal will be to replace everything with multiple copies of the very best cards and have it play like Legacy. If the goal is to provide challenging decisions, interesting drafts, variety in archetypes and cards that are seen and creating a fun, diverse environment ...that's what the singleton guideline helps provide for the cube.
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I understand where you're coming from, and I've thought about doing it as well. But the main reason I don't is because new sets excite me. If I choose to break the singleton rule, then I can have the most efficient cube I want. Which makes new sets more boring. When they printed Diregraf Ghoul in Innistrad, I was super happy that I was going to be able to shore up some of blacks weaknesses (needed more 1 drops). Every time a new set comes out I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of goodies I get to help my cube out with. If I had broken the singleton rule before Innistrad, I would have already had the perfect amount of 1 drops I needed already, so while the ghoul would have been great in the sense that I get to upgrade the creature quality, the creature role is still the same. I know that creature upgrades already happen, but I'm not as excited when they print a better card of what I have then when the print another card of what I want in addition.
This is just one other reason to the many others have posted about it. But I think that this is a relevant point to bring up, even if it is a reason that has nothing to do with gameplay.
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I am ok with this if I would consider it fully calculated if I were doing something similar. If you do this with Duress, you don't have the do the same with other cards., but I would only feel it to be ok if I looked at every card in my cube and checked if it deserved another copy. Just adding one duplicate without thinking this concept through for the entire cube, feels a bit too 'casual', unlogical to me.
I am sure you could approach this differently. A more ad hoc approach, less globally consistant, more single goal orientated. But that wouldn't tick psychologically for me.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
And since the gameplay experience I aim to create involves making the most fun, exciting & powerful environment I can with the most variety possible, the singleton rule works perfectly for me. My cube maxim requires the singleton rule in order to avoid 8x Goblin Guide as my only red 1-drops, because that's what I'd want if that's what was available.
I create the exact gameplay experience I want without adding duplicates. Adding in more copies of one card and not another would just detract from our experience. YMMV of course, but we enjoy playing a singleton environment; otherwise we wouldn't do it.
I think it absolutely does have something to do with gameplay. Variety and diversity between all of your choices is part of what draws you to the cube. You'd rather play a Carnophage, a Diregraf Ghoul and a Gravecrawler than x3 Gravecrawlers in your deck (despite the latter being more powerful) because the first is more interesting. I think it's important to make your drafts interesting. And if variety and diversity is important to you (which is sounds like it is, and it certainly is to me) ...that's part of the reason why we enforce a singleton rule for the cube.
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I'm glad the singleton rule works for you, but I don't see the appeal. But that's fine, there are a lot of Magic related things I don't see the appeal of. And thanks to cube, I don't have to!
I think you're misunderstanding my post. I'm not saying that because I run 2 copies of Duress that I have to run 2 copies of Goblin Guide, I'm saying this.
If I decide to no longer enforce the singleton rule because I want to encourage better gameplay in a way that multiple copies of a card allows, then I logically can't stop without considering running multiples of other cards.
I find it to be statistically improbable that my cube will provide better gameplay with 2 copies of Duress, but with 1 copy of everything else. Once I've decided to play 2 copies of duress, even if I don't end up adding more copies of other cards, it would be irresponsible of me to not consider it. I have to now consider whether 2 Goblin Guides would make red aggro better, or whether 2 damnations would help black control, or whether 2 sinkholes would help black LD.
I'm not saying I'd necessarily make all of those changes, but once you take away the restriction, you can't just say "OK, I'm going to run 2 copies of Duress and that's it", you have to establish where the line is again. In this thread we've seen somebody who runs doubles of cards that are functionally very similar to other cards that exist that he doesn't own (2 Cultivates instead of 1 Cultivate and 1 Kodama's Reach, 2 Diabolic Edicts instead of 1 Diabolic Edict and 1 Chainer's Edict). I know Kenny Mayer also runs doubles of the shocks and fetches, which provides a good line in the sand.
While those are not decisions I'm prepared to make for my cube, I understand the decision and it's easy to see where to go from there as you continue to edit the cube. If I add a second Duress, I don't know where the line would become drawn, and that's a big part of why I don't want to do it.
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But I assume you run multiple copies of basic lands, so clearly you have decided where to draw the line on multiples, no? Obviously different lines are closer together or father apart, but we all still have them drawn.
In the end, I think the debate is very similar to color balance or power level restrictions. We all draw the line somewhere, so let's not pretend like we don't.
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What? My maxim creates exactly the environment I want. I want diversity, variety, balance and power. With creative problem solving to meet those requirements. The singleton rule bolsters that maxim.
You don't have to run 1-ofs if you don't want to. But the singleton rule helps sculpt the exact format that I've come to love so much. Drafting multiples doesn't have nearly the appeal to me as running a singleton environment does. If it did, I'd run multiples. Pretty simple.
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I know! It's about as dumb as saying because you add one specific effect in doubles, you will run (or have no reason not to run) 10 Gravecrawlers. Why are you allowed to apply common sense, but I am not?
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Where are you drawing the line when you include multiple copies of duress? Yes, I've drawn it at basic lands, that's the only thing I allow multiples of. Kenny Mayer draws his line at Shocks and Fetches. When you allow a second copy of Duress, where are you drawing the line?
Look, if you want to run multiples, that's fine. But I haven't heard anyone propose a second line drawn that doesn't allow you to run multiples of everything but does allow you to run multiples of Duress. If that's the case, then why aren't you running 2 Goblin Guides?
More articulately: Where are you drawing the line that allows for multiple copies of Duress but not multiple copies of every other effect the cube would like more of but wizards hasn't printed?
My main objection is people suggesting that you run multiples of Duress but don't want to run multiple copies of something else, and have no real reason.
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If this is true, this statement doesn't make sense: "My cube maxim requires the singleton rule in order to avoid 8x Goblin Guide as my only red 1-drops, because that's what I'd want if that's what was available."
Your maxim says "You must run 8 Goblin Guides as your only red 1-drops."
Your design sensibilities say "I don't want to run 8 Goblin Guides."
So, you add an arbitrary limiter that says "I cannot run more then 1 Goblin Guide."
Your maxim and your design sensibilities are clearly at odds. I'm glad the singleton rules works for you as a resolution to this dissonance. I simply do not see the appeal of this approach.
Simple Direct Questions.
If you are suggesting that some hypothetical cube run 2 Duresses to increase the density of good black discard and 2 Goblin Guides to increase the density of good red 1 drops, where are you drawing the line on running multiples?
- Are you only running 2 copies of things or can you run 3-8 of them?
- Are you only running multiple copies of things that cost 1 mana?
- Are you considering multiples of every card in the cube?
- If so, are you running more copies of Sinkhole/Dark Ritual/Rofellos/Mind Stone?
My point is, it gets out of hand fast. For me, I have chosen not to expand to run multiples because I don't have a good idea for where to draw the line. I'm happy to consider some other place to draw the line, but I haven't heard one yet. Are you proposing that we draw no line and just run multiples of anything we want?
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No they're not.
My maxim values diversity and variance. Breaking the singleton rule is in conflict with my maxim.
Running multiples simply to improve the quality of the worst cards to make them closer to the best cards in one area and not another is the only problem I see here. It wouldn't make sense to add multiples in one section and not in another.
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The line is what gets you the play experience you want. If a singleton rule gets you there, then use it. I won't understand it, but the goal of YOUR cube is not to make ME happy.
Everybody already does this.
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Then you don't actually have a singleton rule.
If, by your maxim, you wouldn't include a duplicate copy of a card, then the singleton rule is extraneous. The "highlander nature" of your cube is due to adherence to your maxim, not the result of some arbitrary limitation.
It depends on what cards I need multiple copies of to reach my goal.
Of course.
I am if I need them to reach my goal
Yes.
However, I find that most cube players enjoy diversity and that even without a singleton rule, most cubes will tend towards having few or no multiples. I just don't see a point in arbitrarily disallowing multiples when clearly sometimes they can be beneficial.
It is. Everyone's justification is just as arbitrary as the next. We are all beholden to only the rule of making the environment we want to. How is running two duress because you think it will make for a better environment any different than allowing functional reprints, or multiple basics, or not allowing a card due to it warping the environment? I'm sure you have reasons that you find valid, but that doesn't mean it is a different line.
I thought cube owners would understand this better than anyone. We all make up our own rules, and break them when there is good reason to do so. If you haven't had good reason yet, then good for you.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
Well it was an example someone else gave, but the reason you do anything in cube is to create a better environment, either draft, play, or both. Generally, I would probably only break the singleton rule if I had a perceived need that could not be solved in what I deem as a proper manner within the singleton rule. Thus, I will not add Duress.