This was actually what I was planning on responding to Max with too. My group and I were hot for this risk legacy idea as well, but my recollection was that the guy who presented the idea didn't/wouldn't upload any of his workbooks, meaning anyone that wanted to try it would pretty much have to start from scratch. I guess we just stopped talking about it once we realized how much of a pain in the ass the whole front end prep process was going to be.
My group and I actually gave this "Cube: Legacy" idea a go over a couple of week period (I guess technically it's still ongoing, although interest from the group is waning so we haven't revisited the format for a couple of months.)
Like others, I tried contacting Gregory Marques (the CFB article's author), as well as a handful of other MTGS members who have talked about running a Cube: Legacy game - sadly, I got no response from anyone. So, as you mentioned, I had to start from scratch.
I can confirm - it is a hell of a lot of work. We decided to focus mainly on the card-modifying stickers, as these are the most visible and hands-on aspect of the format. We also incorporated randomly distributed "draft modifier" effects (which can change a variety of things: the draft rules, the deckbuilding rules, individual cards in the draft (via stickers), the starting rules of the first game you play post-drafting, etc etc.) We also included a small number of sealed "achievement" envelopes with opening conditions such as "open when a player has accumulated 8 game wins", "open the third time a player is killed by a card with two stickers attached to it", etc.
Even with my good laser printer + sheets of printable sticky labels, it took ages to develop, balance, print, and assemble everything needed to get started. Like, weeks.
Because we focused mainly on the card-modifying stickers, we made some changes to Gregory Marques' original rules regarding sticker placement, timing, and quantity (that is, we wanted to be adding lots of stickers to cards relatively quickly.) Instead of letting players add one sticker per match (at "morph" speed), we took the stickering rule to the ridiculous extreme and had players adding one sticker per game (but removed any timing issues by only allowing stickers to be placed before the start of games) and match winners being rewarded with yet another sticker (from a different, more powerful sticker pool.) Under this system, up to a quarter of a player's deck could potentially be modified with stickers by the end of a 4 round session....and of course, those stickers carry over from week to week.
* * * * *
I'm starting to ramble now. If anyone's interested in hearing more about our group's Cube: Legacy experience, let me know and I'll post more info.
If anyone's interested in hearing more about our group's Cube: Legacy experience, let me know and I'll post more info.
Thanks for the detailed description of your experience. I'd personally love to hear about the roster of stickers/abilities your group eventually settled on. I also felt that the "scars" seemed like the most salient feature to add to normal cubing. I'm interested in hearing about how and why your group got burnt out on it.
For my own stickers, I was just planning on printing up pages on unperforated sticky paper, and then just cutting the scars out using an exacto knife as needed. If you know off hand the appropriate font size, and general width, character-wise, you used to make your stickys, I know I would appreciate just something as minor as that!
I've been musing this past week about a Fallen Empires Plus cube; 2-4 copies of most fe cards, plus explicit Sarpadian additions from the time spiral block, plus extra, roughly on-theme cards from the rest of magic to round off the decks and archetypes. I'm not sure how fallen empires would draft (seeing as draft wasn't even a design feature of magic yet), but I think this would make for an interesting nostalgia cube, and most of the core cards could probably be acquired inexpensively.
a cube that has the cards sorted in commons, uncommons and rares/mythics
you choose rarity a card has.
a pack is made out of 11 commons, 3 uncommons and 1 rare/mythic.
you could also make one that has multiple copies of caertain cards
Sorry to drag things a bit off-topic, but regarding Cube: Legacy...
My group and I actually gave this "Cube: Legacy" idea a go over a couple of week period (I guess technically it's still ongoing, although interest from the group is waning so we haven't revisited the format for a couple of months.)
Like others, I tried contacting Gregory Marques (the CFB article's author), as well as a handful of other MTGS members who have talked about running a Cube: Legacy game - sadly, I got no response from anyone. So, as you mentioned, I had to start from scratch.
I can confirm - it is a hell of a lot of work. We decided to focus mainly on the card-modifying stickers, as these are the most visible and hands-on aspect of the format. We also incorporated randomly distributed "draft modifier" effects (which can change a variety of things: the draft rules, the deckbuilding rules, individual cards in the draft (via stickers), the starting rules of the first game you play post-drafting, etc etc.) We also included a small number of sealed "achievement" envelopes with opening conditions such as "open when a player has accumulated 8 game wins", "open the third time a player is killed by a card with two stickers attached to it", etc.
Even with my good laser printer + sheets of printable sticky labels, it took ages to develop, balance, print, and assemble everything needed to get started. Like, weeks.
Because we focused mainly on the card-modifying stickers, we made some changes to Gregory Marques' original rules regarding sticker placement, timing, and quantity (that is, we wanted to be adding lots of stickers to cards relatively quickly.) Instead of letting players add one sticker per match (at "morph" speed), we took the stickering rule to the ridiculous extreme and had players adding one sticker per game (but removed any timing issues by only allowing stickers to be placed before the start of games) and match winners being rewarded with yet another sticker (from a different, more powerful sticker pool.) Under this system, up to a quarter of a player's deck could potentially be modified with stickers by the end of a 4 round session....and of course, those stickers carry over from week to week.
* * * * *
I'm starting to ramble now. If anyone's interested in hearing more about our group's Cube: Legacy experience, let me know and I'll post more info.
Can we get some deck photos? I want to see how powerful the decks look.
This came up while drafting last night: "The Griefer Cube." A cube that makes you want to cry and never play magic again. The colors are loaded with mass LD, hymn to tourach-effects, stax, griselbrand reanimator, stunted growth and plow under shenanigans.
Got this idea a while back to have a doubling cube. You'd play every game as if Doubling Season was already in play. No idea if this would work especially when trying to be sure that power stays even across the color pie. I'd imagine the format would be really fast, but possibly not if you include enough control support. Dunno.
Doubling Season was just a pet card of mine right before I quit playing during Coldsnap. I was really surprised to see how valuable they'd become with EDH and all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks
Standard: Mono Red #GetSwol
Elsewhere: Random Brews All Day, Erreday
~
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
FF8 might not be a bad exercise, considering there were multiple factions in the game that could have had plenty of cross-character pollination: SeeD(?) heroes vs Ultimacia faction vs disgruntled/disaffected SeeD students vs Galbadians(?) vs random monsters/Aeons. Whether the game warrants the level of time, patience, and commitment to whip up an entire set is another matter entirely...
EDIT: I'm ashamed that I'm spending mental energy on a FF8 custom set, but I've been thinking about the gimmick mechanics that a set like this could use:
White (+Blue) ~ principally SEED heroes: probably a level up mechanic, templated as "limit break" or something. Lots of unique/unconventional color protections maybe...
Red ~ Disgruntled students (Seifer, etc): probably something like "loner" from AVR, or "clique" if you want to template battalion, and make it like they're a group of bullies picking on Squall. Red would probably also be good for the random imperial goons that every FF is chocked full of.
Blue: some kind of ability stealing mechanic - can't remember the name of the in-game siphoning ability you use to steal spells.
Black ~ Ultimacia and co: probably something like haunt from rav or a new "possession" mechanic; Ultimacia is an antagonist from the future who can project her mind into the past. Probably a lot of black fatties in this color too, to simulate the castle of horrors at the end.
Green ~ monsters + animals: I haven't played the game in so long, I don't really remember what the general texture of the monsters were in the game. Maybe some kind of +1/+1 mechanic, since enemies were the primary source of spells/junction fodder.
Gold ~ Aeons: random potpourri of big, splashy abilities.
FF8 might not be a bad exercise, considering there were multiple factions in the game that could have had plenty of cross-character pollination: SeeD(?) heroes vs Ultimacia faction vs disgruntled/disaffected SeeD students vs Galbadians(?) vs random monsters/Aeons. Whether the game warrants the level of time, patience, and commitment to whip up an entire set is another matter entirely...
EDIT: I'm ashamed that I'm spending mental energy on a FF8 custom set, but I've been thinking about the gimmick mechanics that a set like this could use:
White (+Blue) ~ principally SEED heroes: probably a level up mechanic, templated as "limit break" or something. Lots of unique/unconventional color protections maybe...
Red ~ Disgruntled students (Seifer, etc): probably something like "loner" from AVR, or "clique" if you want to template battalion, and make it like they're a group of bullies picking on Squall. Red would probably also be good for the random imperial goons that every FF is chocked full of.
Blue: some kind of ability stealing mechanic - can't remember the name of the in-game siphoning ability you use to steal spells.
Black ~ Ultimacia and co: probably something like haunt from rav or a new "possession" mechanic; Ultimacia is an antagonist from the future who can project her mind into the past. Probably a lot of black fatties in this color too, to simulate the castle of horrors at the end.
Green ~ monsters + animals: I haven't played the game in so long, I don't really remember what the general texture of the monsters were in the game. Maybe some kind of +1/+1 mechanic, since enemies were the primary source of spells/junction fodder.
Gold ~ Aeons: random potpourri of big, splashy abilities.
Just talking about this and reading your post put a big smile on my face
Honestly, FF8 had so much going on, it's hard to figure out mechanics because they don't smoothly transfer to cardboard. FF8 combat is centered around the junction mechanic. The closest thing in magic would be a mesh between [pay mana]: do effect + equipment. FF7 is clearly an equipment theme set IMO.
FF8 I could see:
When [condition is met], ~ has "(2): deal 1 damage to target creature or player"
When [condition is met], ~ has "when ~ deals combat damage to an opponent, detain up to 1 permanent he/she controls"
I have always thought you needed a special game-state condition. For example, battalion happens when you have a certain condition on the table. It could also be when you control X creature types or X amount of 1 creature type.
DFC happens when you satisfy a certain condition. I could see all the main characters being DFC (FF7 or FF8). I don't know why they'd flip, but when they do, they become ridiculous.
-----------
As far as FF8 is concerned, you're correct that there are a lot of things you could design. The different schools, SeeD, even regional enemies like soldiers, monsters, big beasts. GF's/Summons would probably be spells. Both games had them as such. It wasn't until FF10 that summons hung around like a character.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I love the idea of DFCs! If you included two or more versions of Squall in the cube, you could even make one version flip back and forth into Laguna ~ like one of the werewolves from innistrad. Triggers for other character DFCs could be like helm of kaldra or crown of empires-type effects, where you assemble a certain quantity of key items, relevant for that character, and they get rediculous. Drafting (esp open information variants like grid or quilt) would be all about maximizing in-kind items to flip the most characters and beat the opponent's face in.
As you mentioned before, the =/= between the FF games and magic mechanics would be pretty hard to surmount. I think an FF7 or FF8 cube might be a better project to use with the World of Warcraft ccg, where each player actually represents their chosen hero. The un-defined scale and explicitly non-narrative focus of the magic game might not serve the FF theme very well, especially when Cloud is getting doom bladed!
Strangest cube idea I could think of is a cube with the lowest casting cost of a card being 4CC. so all 1,2,and 3 CC not allowed. Start at four and work up.
I'm nearing one of those collection critical masses again, where I need to either build a new cube or liquidate a bunch of cards. What weird ideas have folks been thinking/talking about this past month+?
-D
EDIT: Me, I finished a rav pauper commander cube, am still working on an all-blue cube in mtgse, and have started inventorying an old Rage ccg collection, in the hopes I can make a cube out of that. Finally, I'm part of a local Netrunner FB group, and were hoping to demo a drafting scheme similar to the one outlined here.
I've been toying with the idea of having an artifact cube where everyone has artifact lands rather than normal basics. I'm struggling to work out how to avoid making it horribly broken.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I've been toying with the idea of having an artifact cube where everyone has artifact lands rather than normal basics. I'm struggling to work out how to avoid making it horribly broken.
I read a great article on Gathering Magic that talked about an artifact themed cube, how he kept the power level in check, ect.
He settled on the solution of letting everyone add any 3 artifact lands after drafting.
I was talking to a friend about a unique 2 headed giant cube: Players on each team are separated into an aggro and control role. Once these have been established, the two in-kind players draft their cards from a special aggro or control winston stack. Afterward, they rejoin their partner and the match begins. The aggro deck contains most of the creatures, equips, combat buffs, etc, while the control deck has most of the utility, removal, and potpourri effects.
*Disclaimer: Not sure if the aforementioned paragraph already is the prevailing design philosophy behind 2HG cubes. I've never played a dedicated one yet.
One idea I've been considering is a multiplayer "Super Smash Cube," where you try to beef up your creatures with lots of supporting spells and win through ridiculous combats. There would be few unconditional removal spells for creatures, instead focusing on toughness based removal, burn, and temporary effects (think Ice Cage, even if that's more a thematic card than a powerful example).
And, of course, there should be lots of cards that allow creatures to Pit Fight outside of the main Arena.
I'd be tempted to run this cube like an EDH cube, so that each drafter is encouraged to focus on their Commander (possibly not legendary creatures). Then there could be victory points awarded for various achievements beyond "being the last player standing."
My group and I actually gave this "Cube: Legacy" idea a go over a couple of week period (I guess technically it's still ongoing, although interest from the group is waning so we haven't revisited the format for a couple of months.)
Like others, I tried contacting Gregory Marques (the CFB article's author), as well as a handful of other MTGS members who have talked about running a Cube: Legacy game - sadly, I got no response from anyone. So, as you mentioned, I had to start from scratch.
I can confirm - it is a hell of a lot of work. We decided to focus mainly on the card-modifying stickers, as these are the most visible and hands-on aspect of the format. We also incorporated randomly distributed "draft modifier" effects (which can change a variety of things: the draft rules, the deckbuilding rules, individual cards in the draft (via stickers), the starting rules of the first game you play post-drafting, etc etc.) We also included a small number of sealed "achievement" envelopes with opening conditions such as "open when a player has accumulated 8 game wins", "open the third time a player is killed by a card with two stickers attached to it", etc.
Even with my good laser printer + sheets of printable sticky labels, it took ages to develop, balance, print, and assemble everything needed to get started. Like, weeks.
Because we focused mainly on the card-modifying stickers, we made some changes to Gregory Marques' original rules regarding sticker placement, timing, and quantity (that is, we wanted to be adding lots of stickers to cards relatively quickly.) Instead of letting players add one sticker per match (at "morph" speed), we took the stickering rule to the ridiculous extreme and had players adding one sticker per game (but removed any timing issues by only allowing stickers to be placed before the start of games) and match winners being rewarded with yet another sticker (from a different, more powerful sticker pool.) Under this system, up to a quarter of a player's deck could potentially be modified with stickers by the end of a 4 round session....and of course, those stickers carry over from week to week.
* * * * *
I'm starting to ramble now. If anyone's interested in hearing more about our group's Cube: Legacy experience, let me know and I'll post more info.
Thanks for the detailed description of your experience. I'd personally love to hear about the roster of stickers/abilities your group eventually settled on. I also felt that the "scars" seemed like the most salient feature to add to normal cubing. I'm interested in hearing about how and why your group got burnt out on it.
For my own stickers, I was just planning on printing up pages on unperforated sticky paper, and then just cutting the scars out using an exacto knife as needed. If you know off hand the appropriate font size, and general width, character-wise, you used to make your stickys, I know I would appreciate just something as minor as that!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
you choose rarity a card has.
a pack is made out of 11 commons, 3 uncommons and 1 rare/mythic.
you could also make one that has multiple copies of caertain cards
Every game is going to be a race of who has the biggest wolf.
Can we get some deck photos? I want to see how powerful the decks look.
Photos - sure, but none of complete decks I'm afraid - they were all disassembled after our last session.
I was going to reply here, but I ended up putting together an article/report thingy instead: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=497729
Has anyone explored the creature cube or noncreature cube ideas? I ask because I'm wondering which colors become the most powerful.
I imagine white becomes a pretty bad color if it doesn't have access to its token spells and there are no creatures to Wrath away.
And I imagine blue gets pretty lackluster when it has no spells to generate tempo and card advantage.
My cube list on CubeTutor.
Both are very much under construction. Please stop by and talk about it!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Doubling Season was just a pet card of mine right before I quit playing during Coldsnap. I was really surprised to see how valuable they'd become with EDH and all.
Standard: Mono Red #GetSwol
Elsewhere: Random Brews All Day, Erreday
~
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
FF8 might not be a bad exercise, considering there were multiple factions in the game that could have had plenty of cross-character pollination: SeeD(?) heroes vs Ultimacia faction vs disgruntled/disaffected SeeD students vs Galbadians(?) vs random monsters/Aeons. Whether the game warrants the level of time, patience, and commitment to whip up an entire set is another matter entirely...
EDIT: I'm ashamed that I'm spending mental energy on a FF8 custom set, but I've been thinking about the gimmick mechanics that a set like this could use:
White (+Blue) ~ principally SEED heroes: probably a level up mechanic, templated as "limit break" or something. Lots of unique/unconventional color protections maybe...
Red ~ Disgruntled students (Seifer, etc): probably something like "loner" from AVR, or "clique" if you want to template battalion, and make it like they're a group of bullies picking on Squall. Red would probably also be good for the random imperial goons that every FF is chocked full of.
Blue: some kind of ability stealing mechanic - can't remember the name of the in-game siphoning ability you use to steal spells.
Black ~ Ultimacia and co: probably something like haunt from rav or a new "possession" mechanic; Ultimacia is an antagonist from the future who can project her mind into the past. Probably a lot of black fatties in this color too, to simulate the castle of horrors at the end.
Green ~ monsters + animals: I haven't played the game in so long, I don't really remember what the general texture of the monsters were in the game. Maybe some kind of +1/+1 mechanic, since enemies were the primary source of spells/junction fodder.
Gold ~ Aeons: random potpourri of big, splashy abilities.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Just talking about this and reading your post put a big smile on my face
Honestly, FF8 had so much going on, it's hard to figure out mechanics because they don't smoothly transfer to cardboard. FF8 combat is centered around the junction mechanic. The closest thing in magic would be a mesh between [pay mana]: do effect + equipment. FF7 is clearly an equipment theme set IMO.
FF8 I could see:
When [condition is met], ~ has "(2): deal 1 damage to target creature or player"
When [condition is met], ~ has "when ~ deals combat damage to an opponent, detain up to 1 permanent he/she controls"
I have always thought you needed a special game-state condition. For example, battalion happens when you have a certain condition on the table. It could also be when you control X creature types or X amount of 1 creature type.
DFC happens when you satisfy a certain condition. I could see all the main characters being DFC (FF7 or FF8). I don't know why they'd flip, but when they do, they become ridiculous.
-----------
As far as FF8 is concerned, you're correct that there are a lot of things you could design. The different schools, SeeD, even regional enemies like soldiers, monsters, big beasts. GF's/Summons would probably be spells. Both games had them as such. It wasn't until FF10 that summons hung around like a character.
http://pspmedia.ign.com/psp/image/article/859/859581/crisis-core-final-fantasy-vii-20080313075345019-000.jpg
http://condel.cc/~reaper/pelid/FF8-GF.png
Could be as simple as doing shock to the world. Could be a wrath of god effect. Could create a token army on the spot.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
As you mentioned before, the =/= between the FF games and magic mechanics would be pretty hard to surmount. I think an FF7 or FF8 cube might be a better project to use with the World of Warcraft ccg, where each player actually represents their chosen hero. The un-defined scale and explicitly non-narrative focus of the magic game might not serve the FF theme very well, especially when Cloud is getting doom bladed!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
-D
EDIT: Me, I finished a rav pauper commander cube, am still working on an all-blue cube in mtgse, and have started inventorying an old Rage ccg collection, in the hopes I can make a cube out of that. Finally, I'm part of a local Netrunner FB group, and were hoping to demo a drafting scheme similar to the one outlined here.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Something like
W - Cats
B - Rats
U - Birds
R - Dogs (hounds)
G - Bears
W/B - Spirits
W/U - Faeries
W/R - Solider
W/G - Kithkin
B/U - Merfolk
B/R - Goblin
B/G - Elves
U/R - Wizard
U/G - Snakes
R/G - Kavu
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I read a great article on Gathering Magic that talked about an artifact themed cube, how he kept the power level in check, ect.
He settled on the solution of letting everyone add any 3 artifact lands after drafting.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I was talking to a friend about a unique 2 headed giant cube: Players on each team are separated into an aggro and control role. Once these have been established, the two in-kind players draft their cards from a special aggro or control winston stack. Afterward, they rejoin their partner and the match begins. The aggro deck contains most of the creatures, equips, combat buffs, etc, while the control deck has most of the utility, removal, and potpourri effects.
On a similar note, I'd love to build a 2HG cube with an extreme emphasis on between-teammate synergies. So as many copy, fork, token doubling, mana doubling, targetted card draw, and misdirection effects as possible.
*Disclaimer: Not sure if the aforementioned paragraph already is the prevailing design philosophy behind 2HG cubes. I've never played a dedicated one yet.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Possible themes could be equipments/auras/spells-matter. Creatures for those themes include Kiln Fiend, Nivix Cyclops, Stonehewer Giant, and Aura Gnarlid.
And, of course, there should be lots of cards that allow creatures to Pit Fight outside of the main Arena.
I'd be tempted to run this cube like an EDH cube, so that each drafter is encouraged to focus on their Commander (possibly not legendary creatures). Then there could be victory points awarded for various achievements beyond "being the last player standing."
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Are you doing only-legendary creature commanders, or uncommons?
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."