Yes. Yes they are. Being a full turn ahead on resources for the entire game without having to invest mana or turns into ramping is insanely powerful.
But this doesn't feel like the beginning of a very fruitful discussion, so we should just agree to disagree and move on.
You're right.
Thinking about it more, I'd be concerned that it would push an artifact synergy deck over the top in addition to the point you make about being ahead all game. Even though I don't run some of the better mana rocks like Sol Ring or Basalt Monolith or Thran Engine, Land + Mox + Signet Past the turn is still kind of absurd.
I'm so used to doing the exact opposite of what any Magic player tells me that sometimes I'm ignoring common sense and you need to drill it into my thick skull, lol.
*shrugs* More spots for sweet looking Mirrodin and COK Block foils. Thanks for talking some sense into me.
Do you know of any cards that combo with One With Nothing?
The ones I've found so far:
Balance
Restore Balance
Sudden Substitution
Mirror Mirror and the Everythingamajig that has the Mirror Mirror mode on it
Anything graveyard based, albeit One With Nothing is the worst possible discard outlet there is
Yeah, Moxes are busted. I reccomend a cycle of myr (Leaden Myr and friends). Those have always been good for me, and even Copper Myr gets played despite the existence of Llanowar Elves.
I get the banding, and I get Dash Hopes. I just don't get why you wanna play One With Nothing when it's one of the least cubeable cards of all time. Putrid Imp is the way to go. The only reason to play one with nothing is to say "look at me, I'm playing one with nothing!" But the obvious card you didn't mention for it is Hive Mind (another card that should never be cubed).
Yeah, Moxes are busted. I reccomend a cycle of myr (Leaden Myr and friends). Those have always been good for me, and even Copper Myr gets played despite the existence of Llanowar Elves.
I get the banding, and I get Dash Hopes. I just don't get why you wanna play One With Nothing when it's one of the least cubeable cards of all time. Putrid Imp is the way to go. The only reason to play one with nothing is to say "look at me, I'm playing one with nothing!" But the obvious card you didn't mention for it is Hive Mind (another card that should never be cubed).
Yeah the Myrnowar cycle is a good idea, I love the art on the original ones. Nice, solid, general purpose cards that aren't broken.
On One with Nothing:
1.) Because obnoxiously narrow, Pee-Wee's playhouse lines of play excite me. So finding a genuine use for One with Nothing makes me excited. For example I had an Empty the Warrens get countered with a Hindering Touch and found it exciting. Last time I cubed I was able to use banding to ignore Maze of Ith.
I also had a Dark Confidant of mine stolen with a Control Magic. Since his life total was lower than mine for most of the game, I couldn't use the Mirror Universe I was planning on using.
Therefore the idea of combo'ing one of the worst spells in the game with Balance or Sudden Substitution excites me.
2.) Griefing Magic players. Because I think that Magic players don't actually like playing the game and everything they like is bad for the game, therefore anything they hate is good for the game.
If Magic players ruined the game by getting Shroud replaced with Hexproof, I feel as though there is nothing wrong with griefing them with fun, fair, interesting cards in turn. It's a middle finger to dumb ***** like Tinker + Blightsteel.
To use a music analogy, the type of Magic that I want to play is Le P'tit Boscot by Berthe Sylva, and I perceive the type of Magic that everyone else wants to play as something like Nickelback or Creed or whatever.
3.) I do genuinely like the art on it. COK block cards look great.
4.) Thanks for the Hive Mind suggestion, I'll consider it.
On blacking out card text:
1.) Sword of War and Peace is the only sword that interests me. I like handsize matters ("Wisdom"). Sword of D&D seems rather obnoxious and would also require more blacking out. I'd black out the D20 roll part.
2.) What is actually wrong with blacking out lines of text? If there is a broken card that you like, what exactly is wrong with fixing the card? Why not, it's a custom draft environment?
Outside of my own reasoning (that Magic players don't actually like having to play the game or interact and making unfair, unfun cards fun and fair bothers them), it hasn't been explained to me why this is so bothersome to many. I'm not even damaging the cards, I'm sharpie'ing the inner sleeve.
2.) What is actually wrong with
blacking out lines of text? If there is a broken card that you like, what exactly is wrong with fixing the card? Why not, it's a custom draft environment?
Nothing, unless it's not something your cube group is a fan of, which it sounds like is the case here. Plenty of cube groups play with cards using custom errata. Some groups play Chaos Orb as a colorless Vindicate. Some groups have house rules requiring cards be picked over other cards. My group plays with free mulligans. So if your group is on board with playing a sword and ignoring the protections on it, there's nothing at all wrong about that. But if it's something you personally want, but your cube group doesn't like or doesn't enjoy, then you may have to concede. Forcing unwanted house rules on your group seems like an easy way to a one man cube night.
2.) What is actually wrong with
blacking out lines of text? If there is a broken card that you like, what exactly is wrong with fixing the card? Why not, it's a custom draft environment?
Nothing, unless it's not something your cube group is a fan of, which it sounds like is the case here. Plenty of cube groups play with cards using custom errata. Some groups play Chaos Orb as a colorless Vindicate. Some groups have house rules requiring cards be picked over other cards. My group plays with free mulligans. So if your group is on board with playing a sword and ignoring the protections on it, there's nothing at all wrong about that. But if it's something you personally want, but your cube group doesn't like or doesn't enjoy, then you may have to concede. Forcing unwanted house rules on your group seems like an easy way to a one man cube night.
But why don't they like it? What is so objectionable about playing reasonable versions of Jitte or a Sword or Batterskull? You haven't offered an explanation.
Because they should have done it right and/or they did give at least minimal thought to this spectrum of use since about the existence of planeswalkers. Therefore, if that one's too good there's another that's meant to be used with that set of preferences. The cards do what they do. It's a target audience bugaboo quality.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Warning: Um, warning. This is going to be a game state violation. And a taking extra turns and drawing extra cards violation, pretty much, a whole bunch of violations. Look at me, I'm the DCI."
For the opposite reason why you don't. Your opinion is not somehow more valid than theirs. Your concept that the card needs to be "fixed" is not superior to the opinion that the card is better off used as printed.
Some of us like to play with Magic cards. We use oracle text ruling for everything. We like to use obtained historical knowledge about cards to inform our decisions when cubing. None of that works when you no longer get to play with real Magic cards. It stops feeling like Magic and starts feeling like your game. I'm one of the people that loses interest in formats that contain custom cards. I'd much rather play with a cube that excludes Swords than one that changes them. But that's me.
You should design a cube that your playgroup wants to play with. The guy that doesn't want to play a sharpied cube isn't doing anything wrong. Nor are you for wanting to play with your own customized stuff. It boils down to personal preference. Find the build that makes everyone happy, otherwise you'll wind up with a pile of cards nobody's using.
But why don't they like it? What is so objectionable about playing reasonable versions of Jitte or a Sword or Batterskull? You haven't offered an explanation.
I also frequent the peasant forum here, so I saw how you spent the last few days repeating your same unpopular opinions over and over in the main peasant cube thread until most of the regulars over there flat out blocked you. So it seems as if your ideas didn't catch on there and you've just decided to come out here to the main forum and try again. Your opinion, however far off from the norm it may be, is certainly valid, but you can't keep saying these same things and expect validation from a group of people who don't tend to share your mindset. You just end up driving people away instead of creating meaningful discussion. And, just like with the guy in your group who doesn't want to cube with your Sharpied cards, people tend to start ignoring you. It's one thing to debate playing with protection cards in cube by making valid points and arguments as to why you think they're bad for the environment, but the attitude you have here doesn't come off as the type of person who's looking for a friendly debate. You're looking for validation on some pretty radical ideas and you're probably not going to get that here.
Purposefully griefing your players is a way for nobody to have fun. You are the one who ends up losing. Your oft' repeated philosophy that "everything they like is bad for the game, therefore anything they hate is good for the game" only alienates you in the end. If they were willing to cube in the first place, you shouldn't try to chase them away.
Honestly, your cube looks like a pretty fun low-power environment. I'd play it and enjoy it. But even I would be nonplussed if I opened up a pack with One With Nothing, a sharpied Sword of War and Peace, Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, and Strip Mine in it. And I'm about as big a proponent of low-power cube as you'll find.
To use the music metaphor, people don't blame you for listening to Berthe Sylva (though they probably haven't heard of her), and you shouldn't blame them for liking Nickleback. Taste is taste. But when you're at a party, you don't play Berthe Sylva when you know most people won't like it. I don't play Magma at parties, even though I love Magma-- and I don't play whatever crap is popular now either. I play something like David Bowie that everyone will like. Cube is party music, not you hanging out by yourself music. Find something we can all listen to.
We're all here to have fun, and regardless of what you might think, Magic players DO like playing Magic. We had better after spending the money
For more constructive criticism, there are a lot of super janky cards in your cube (which is fine to a point), but there are some very efficient cards in there too that make it feel very first-pick heavy. I guess that's not unlike booster draft, but it's certainly weird to see cards like Strip Mine, Armadillo Cloak, and Solemn Simulacrum in the same pack as cards like Feast of Worms, Akki Lavarunner, and Magnivore (all of which I would cut). Generally my suggestion would be to cut a lot of the chaff.
Some jank is fine: you have a battlecruiser format, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think you could get fun stuff going with cards like Zzzyxas's Abyss and Rowen in an environment weak enough to support them. But some of the jank is just too janky, and I think you know it.
I too once played Rock Hydra. I once played Gravebane Zombie, Primalcrux, Kormus Bell, Hunted Troll, Rootwater Thief, Thallid, Pallimud, Bad Moon, Death's Shadow, Talara's Battalion, and a lot of other stanky jank. It was very important for me to learn to kill my darlings as it were. These cards weren't helping the format, even if it woulda been awesome to win with the 9/9 Death's Shadow, or get that early Talara's Battalion. It turns out that reliable cards that have a lot of potential synergy made for a much better format than cards like Erayo, Soratami Ascendant that might work someday if you believe in the heart of the cards. I know you love cards that aren't supposed to work but'll be a story when they do. That's fine when the card has a solid floor, but if not, it should probably be cut, even if it hurts.
Your cube is top-heavy, but that's not too bad for a battle-cruiser format. However, some of the fatties seem unreliable to me, and you don't need to save up mana for a card that doesn't work. Are you really casting Patron of the Orochi or Patron of the Kitsune reliably? You need to have at least four snakes/foxes in your deck to keep them from being dead, and I doubt the format can promise that. Are you getting a worthwhile discount on Broodstar? Maybe you are: you do have a lot of artifacts. Is Teeka's Dragon ever worth the mana? or Brass Herald? I really kinda doubt it. And I do think you should play both Refurbish and Argivian Restoration to make it possible to cheat out those big artifacts in a completely fair way. And hey, this is battle-cruiser-- there's not a single 7-10 drop white creature. Something like Blazing Archon or Wakening Sun's Avatar, or even Oyobi, Who Split the Heavens are about the right speed for your cube-- or Eternal Dragon if you want a good card-- you could use some fatties that are useful early.
And hey, you probably hate planeswalkers, but I think this is the perfect format for a card like Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted. The Wanderer might even get some rare usage here with all the fatties running around. Jaya, Venerated Firemage is a lot better than Akki Lavarunner. In case you can't tell, I'm a big fan of the WAR uncommon walkers in low-power environments. But feel free to ignore me here: as nifty as some of them are, you don't NEED them.
Just to note, even if Balance does sorta kinda work with One With Nothing, I'd play the former in my deck (cause it's nuts) and not the latter (cause it's unplayable), even if I had a decent graveyard theme. I think you should cut both cards, because Balance is anything but balanced, and One With Nothing is one of the least playable cards in history.
I do feel like you are playing some pretty bad cards just because they are arcane. most of them are fine, but some of the weaker ones should probably go. Some of the banding cards are a bit weak as well, but like arcane, there is a very small pool to pull from. You don't need to make brutal cuts to these strategies (or you'll kill the strategy), but I have a hard time seeing Icatian Skirmishers going anywhere.
Purposefully griefing your players is a way for nobody to have fun. You are the one who ends up losing. Your oft' repeated philosophy that "everything they like is bad for the game, therefore anything they hate is good for the game" only alienates you in the end. If they were willing to cube in the first place, you shouldn't try to chase them away.
Honestly, your cube looks like a pretty fun low-power environment. I'd play it and enjoy it. But even I would be nonplussed if I opened up a pack with One With Nothing, a sharpied Sword of War and Peace, Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, and Strip Mine in it. And I'm about as big a proponent of low-power cube as you'll find.
To use the music metaphor, people don't blame you for listening to Berthe Sylva (though they probably haven't heard of her), and you shouldn't blame them for liking Nickleback. Taste is taste. But when you're at a party, you don't play Berthe Sylva when you know most people won't like it. I don't play Magma at parties, even though I love Magma-- and I don't play whatever crap is popular now either. I play something like David Bowie that everyone will like. Cube is party music, not you hanging out by yourself music. Find something we can all listen to.
We're all here to have fun, and regardless of what you might think, Magic players DO like playing Magic. We had better after spending the money
For more constructive criticism, there are a lot of super janky cards in your cube (which is fine to a point), but there are some very efficient cards in there too that make it feel very first-pick heavy. I guess that's not unlike booster draft, but it's certainly weird to see cards like Strip Mine, Armadillo Cloak, and Solemn Simulacrum in the same pack as cards like Feast of Worms, Akki Lavarunner, and Magnivore (all of which I would cut). Generally my suggestion would be to cut a lot of the chaff.
Some jank is fine: you have a battlecruiser format, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think you could get fun stuff going with cards like Zzzyxas's Abyss and Rowen in an environment weak enough to support them. But some of the jank is just too janky, and I think you know it.
I too once played Rock Hydra. I once played Gravebane Zombie, Primalcrux, Kormus Bell, Hunted Troll, Rootwater Thief, Thallid, Pallimud, Bad Moon, Death's Shadow, Talara's Battalion, and a lot of other stanky jank. It was very important for me to learn to kill my darlings as it were. These cards weren't helping the format, even if it woulda been awesome to win with the 9/9 Death's Shadow, or get that early Talara's Battalion. It turns out that reliable cards that have a lot of potential synergy made for a much better format than cards like Erayo, Soratami Ascendant that might work someday if you believe in the heart of the cards. I know you love cards that aren't supposed to work but'll be a story when they do. That's fine when the card has a solid floor, but if not, it should probably be cut, even if it hurts.
Your cube is top-heavy, but that's not too bad for a battle-cruiser format. However, some of the fatties seem unreliable to me, and you don't need to save up mana for a card that doesn't work. Are you really casting Patron of the Orochi or Patron of the Kitsune reliably? You need to have at least four snakes/foxes in your deck to keep them from being dead, and I doubt the format can promise that. Are you getting a worthwhile discount on Broodstar? Maybe you are: you do have a lot of artifacts. Is Teeka's Dragon ever worth the mana? or Brass Herald? I really kinda doubt it. And I do think you should play both Refurbish and Argivian Restoration to make it possible to cheat out those big artifacts in a completely fair way. And hey, this is battle-cruiser-- there's not a single 7-10 drop white creature. Something like Blazing Archon or Wakening Sun's Avatar, or even Oyobi, Who Split the Heavens are about the right speed for your cube-- or Eternal Dragon if you want a good card-- you could use some fatties that are useful early.
And hey, you probably hate planeswalkers, but I think this is the perfect format for a card like Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted. The Wanderer might even get some rare usage here with all the fatties running around. Jaya, Venerated Firemage is a lot better than Akki Lavarunner. In case you can't tell, I'm a big fan of the WAR uncommon walkers in low-power environments. But feel free to ignore me here: as nifty as some of them are, you don't NEED them.
Just to note, even if Balance does sorta kinda work with One With Nothing, I'd play the former in my deck (cause it's nuts) and not the latter (cause it's unplayable), even if I had a decent graveyard theme. I think you should cut both cards, because Balance is anything but balanced, and One With Nothing is one of the least playable cards in history.
I do feel like you are playing some pretty bad cards just because they are arcane. most of them are fine, but some of the weaker ones should probably go. Some of the banding cards are a bit weak as well, but like arcane, there is a very small pool to pull from. You don't need to make brutal cuts to these strategies (or you'll kill the strategy), but I have a hard time seeing Icatian Skirmishers going anywhere.
Erayo is a bad card? I was under the impression that it's a decent one. It's a nice storm payoff. At worst it's just a 2 mana 1/1 flier.
Why is Strip Mine OP? It's just a one for one. Because I have a bunch of powerful lands, I like ways to interact with them. It adds depth to something that normally has zero depth to it.
Brass Herald is too expensive. My red section used to be Goblin Tribal, but now I have more spirits in my cube than I do Goblins lol. I cut it last night, maybe I'll put it back in for spirits, idk.
Teeka's Dragon isn't good. I'm going to be cutting it when I get a Mycosynth Golem and Blightsteel Colossus. Going to sharpie off infect and replace it with Wither, that way even the remotest possibility cheating it out with Reweave or Through the Breach and insta-winning isn't possible. I don't count Infect as playing Magic either, you start with 20 life, not 10, that's just cheating.
Icarian Skirmishers is legitimately garbage. If it granted first strike to defensive bands it's be great, but as-is nah.
Oyobi is a great idea, thanks.
I do in fact hate Mistakewalkers. The mechanics are interesting, but most of them read like, "On your first main phase, put a charge counter on this permanent. If this has 3 three charge counters on it instead of adding a charge counter you may remove them and win the game." Besides for the handful of original lorwyn ones they all have art that I hate looking at. I hate the art on the vast majority of new Magic cards. I had Urza, Academy Headmaster in my cube for one draft and it basically functioned exactly as I imagined, I put three charge counters on it, then my opponent lost the game. Some of the new uncommon Mistakewalkers would be fine but I'd rather play more pretty COK Block cards instead.
If I was hosting a party I'd play Berthe Sylva. Why not? What you're telling me is that taste is subjective, therefore I shouldn't subject others to what I like in favor of subjecting myself to the crap they like. If taste is subjective, why is the subjective taste of others more valid than mine? If it's their party, they can play the stuff that they like.
I play my friend's proxied MTGO Vintage cube despite awful garbage like Tinker + Blightsteel and Eureka. I don't sperg out about that stuff, but I cross out Pro:Red&White from a Sword and that's what makes my cube undraftable?
I don't believe that any human experience is subjective by the way, we're all just animals responding to stimulus in a deterministic universe. I kind of apply the argument made in Sam Harris' The Moral Landscape to everything. So I do genuinely think that Monet is qualitatively better than Jackson Pollack, Beethoven objectively better than Creed, and likewise fun, fair, interactive Magic as my Lord and Savior Richard Garfield intended to be objectively superior to noninteractive Magic such as Hexproof or cheat decks. Other human experiences can be quantified and getting Louis C.K.'ed by someone obnoxious Tron deck or whatever is an objectively worse experience than an interactive game where decisions matter.
I think that, "Fun is subjective" is just an excuse to shield unfun things from legitimate criticism. And it's also a way to defend the shoving the shoving of the status quo on others. "Music is subjective, therefore my subjective view that Nickelback and Foreigner and country music should be the only things played on the radio is superior to what you like and if I had to listen to a Tino Rossi song you'd be FORCING what YOU like on me, which is something only I'm allowed to do!"
What are some thoughts on the Owling Mine combo in cube?
I have a bunch of "Wisdom" cards in my cube and the, "each player draws a card" cards have synergy with those and the 2-3 mill cards I have in my cube. Since some of the kill cards are artifacts like Ebony Owl Netsuke, they'd also synergize with Mycosynth Golem and Golem Foundry and whatnot.
Plus, they're symmetrical effects, which is something that's neat.
At first glance they seem like parasitic niche cards, but there are a lot of neat synergies.
There's at least a little blame in liking Nickelback
Some of the banding cards are a bit weak as well, but like arcane, there is a very small pool to pull from. You don't need to make brutal cuts to these strategies (or you'll kill the strategy), but I have a hard time seeing Icatian Skirmishers going anywhere.
We put together some low power stuff sometimes and you are right that Icatian Skirmishers don't cut it. And that is in decks that use some of the other Icatian banders from Fallen Empires.
There's at least a little blame in liking Nickelback
Some of the banding cards are a bit weak as well, but like arcane, there is a very small pool to pull from. You don't need to make brutal cuts to these strategies (or you'll kill the strategy), but I have a hard time seeing Icatian Skirmishers going anywhere.
We put together some low power stuff sometimes and you are right that Icatian Skirmishers don't cut it. And that is in decks that use some of the other Icatian banders from Fallen Empires.
Yeah, the fact that it only conditionally grants the band first strike on attacking really makes it unplayable. Banding is better on defense because you only need one of the blockers to have banding in order to be able to redistribute the combat damage, and if it granted First Strike on defense it would be worth playing.
Some funny interactions I've noticed with Banding:
1.) It's both a counter to and has synergy with Maze of Ith. When your opponent goes to maze your banded creature, you can shunt all the damage to it and it gets prevented. Likewise you can Maze one of the attacking creatures in your own band and take no damage.
It's pretty cool that one of the most powerful cards in the game is countered by one of the weakest, most fair, most reviled keywords in the game, haha.
2.) It has synergy with other obscure combat abilities. Provoke, Bushido, Rampage (if Rampage didn't suck), Flanking, and Lone Sentry/Gorgon Recluse-esque abilities. Also has synergy with protection if you're into that sort of thing.
3.) With 2 1/1's both blocking in a band you can stop a 15/15 trample creature and not take any spillover trample damage. This is because the rules for trample are something like, "when you deal lethal damage to all creatures blocking it, deal the excess to the player" and banding allows you redistribute combat damage and not take lethal on both 1/1's if you don't want to.
___________________
I put a pair of Brothers Yamakazi into my cube as a package deal card, meaning that you get 2 copies of BY by drafting the single card. When you draft it you reveal it and skip your next 2 draft picks unless it's the last card in a pack. You're still allowed to look at the packs you skip.
Up until now, the package deal cards in my cube haven't been "real cards", mostly just junk like Ornithopter, Shield Sphere, Tormod's Crypt, the artifact lands, Urza's Bauble, or lands like Tron or 6post, etc. Stuff that isn't really all that good individually (like say, fountain of youth or bone saw) or can't really be drafted normally (like Tron or Posts) but may be worth playing if you got it packaged with other cards.
My package deal cards are:
Ornithopter
Shield Sphere
Phyrexian Walker
Bone Saw
Tormod's Crypt
Fountain of Youth
3 of each UrzaTron land + Glasses of Urza + Urza's Chalice + Urza's Hot Tub + Urza's Engine
3 Cloudposts & 3 Glimmerposts
The one with Zuran Orb hasn't come up in a draft yet, but the other cards see play. Tron takes up a bunch of deck slots and makes drafting fixing necessary unless you're playing mono colored and also is harder to assemble without what it normally has in constructed to aid it like Expedition Map, albeit Hot Tub helps.
Hypothetically the zero mana artifact packages could also be used in storm. Hasn't been tried yet but seems okay if you get enough payoffs. The zero mana creatures and cards like Zuran Orb would also allow you to sit there and prolong games until you found your storm pieces.
Post is a bit better in this regard in that it only takes up 6 slots and gains you life. It's definitely the better of the two, however on average you only see about 3 of the lands in a normal game so while it's good it's not really breaking anything.
So if I have "real cards" in a package deal I want there to be a downside associated with it. Is that enough if a downside? Not enough? I made sure that it doesn't screw you if it's the last pick.
I'm also thinking about how to add a package deal of 4 copies of S.N.O.T.. Idk, is S.N.O.T. even good lol? I have trouble evaluating it because you're opening yourself up to getting two-fered. The floor is that you just get 4 1/1's in your draft pool with only 1 pick.
What route do you guys go for green mana ramp? Mana dorks or cards that get you a bunch of extra lands into play?
Have you eschewed green ramp altogether? When my cube was still a Pauper cube I did that and included as many 4 mana 5/5's and 5/4's as I could and it was easily the best deck in my cube. I changed it back to ramp because shoving mono Gurmag Angler is a bit boring.
The only ramp dorks I have are werebear because I like the art on it (Carl Critchlow is my favorite artist) and it's interesting with Threshold and Qurion Ranger. I suppose I have Petalmane Baku too. The rest of the ramp is stuff like Kodama's Reach, Krosan Tusker, Elder Pine of Jukai, Yavimaya Elder, Sakura Tribe Elder, Sprouting Vines, etc. More land based stuff.
@Salt: I have both actually almost evenly. Technically Krosan Tusker, Elder Pine of Jukai, Yavimaya Elder and Sprouting Vines are not ramp since they don't increase your mana but more fixing both colorwise and landdrop wise. If I include these kinds in the count its more land based.
@Salt: I have both actually almost evenly. Technically Krosan Tusker, Elder Pine of Jukai, Yavimaya Elder and Sprouting Vines are not ramp since they don't increase your mana but more fixing both colorwise and landdrop wise. If I include these kinds in the count its more land based.
I get that fetching lands and not getting extra land drops per turn isn't strictly ramp per se, but ensuring that you can make land drops consistently sort of is so I count it as ramp.
If you're trying to hard cast Iname as One or some other 6-7+ CMC card, not missing lands drops will get you there faster than missing them.
I don't know what to call it really. I'll play an Orzhov Basilica in a Golgari or Mono Black deck just to "psuedo ramp" a little also.
I guess I'm arguing that ramp isn't strictly getting to 4 mana on turn 2 or what have you, it's more, "Having access to more mana than you normally would".
I have the 15 mana Flying Spaghetti Monster in my cube with the full intention of one actually having to pay 15 mana for Him. Anything that gets you there I view as ramp, lol.
So I ended up adding some cards to my cube and the moxes made it back in. Decided to try them out, and they were just as I originally imagined.
They're just okay. Four turns in you draw the one that you found in the draft and now you're at 5 mana instead of 4. It's not really moxes that are busted in cube, it's land -> Mox -> Sol Ring -> Basalt Monolith -> pass the turn that's obnoxious. Without those other pieces they're not much better than Llanowar Elves.
They help storm a little and artifact synergies.
I even had one game where I played one first main phase and it pumped my friend's Wing Shards, lol.
What's the craziest thing to happen to you guys in a cube draft recently?
Last time I drafted my opponent had Psychatog + Bottled Cloister going. For a few turns I had to chump it to prevent myself from dying, and then I drew Yuki-Onni and destroyed the cloister. He then RFG'ed his whole hand (which I didn't realize would happen, I assumed for whatever reason he would just get his cards back), chumped it with Goblin Cohort, and killed it with Crushing Pain. He could have saved it by exiling his entire graveyard and the few cards he drew in the turns after the cloister got destroyed, but he opted not to discard his whole hand. Next turn I would have been able to kill it with the 7 ki counters I had stored up on Skullmane Baku.
He got down to 6 cards in library and finally got in with Arashi, the sky asunder and Cloudhoof kirin beats. I played Enter the Dungeon on him when he got to 6 cards but my friend/store owner told me you don't autolose the main game, just the subgame. I think that's wrong but whatever, still a crazy game.
EDIT: Just looked it up. You do only lose the subgame, not the main game for having less than 7 when you enter a subgame.
The -onni cyle is pretty nice actually, especially with damage on the stack. They're a more exciting version of hate bears.
I work from home predominantly, so I was lucky enough to be able to just stop going into the office. My wife works retail and her store shut down through the end of the month. Luckily it's a good company and she's getting pandemic pay. This has definitely affected us as far as completely altering our normal routine, but I can't complain. I hope everyone here is doing well!
I'm not really sure how to move forward with my cube. It's sorta where I want it to be, but it still feels a bit off-balanced for some reason. I always end up forcing blue black control, and it almost always feels like it's the correct thing to do (this in a cube with some number of big beaters, red burn, channelfireball/disintigrate, white weenies/land tax/scroll rack, and so on).
Also, just curious, how many creatures is considered ok for a cube? more specifically, a 360 vintage powered urza's block and older with ante cube. So far, each colour has 50 cards, and has somewhere between 16-28 creatures per colour + 16 colourless creatures. One of the things that has made UB control great is the abyss, nether void, recall, contract from below. plus the potential for tinker into time vault/grim monolithvoltaic key, icy manipulator/winter orb/static orb. I wanna keep that level of power up, but somehow make the other colours 'better'.
You're right.
Thinking about it more, I'd be concerned that it would push an artifact synergy deck over the top in addition to the point you make about being ahead all game. Even though I don't run some of the better mana rocks like Sol Ring or Basalt Monolith or Thran Engine, Land + Mox + Signet Past the turn is still kind of absurd.
I'm so used to doing the exact opposite of what any Magic player tells me that sometimes I'm ignoring common sense and you need to drill it into my thick skull, lol.
*shrugs* More spots for sweet looking Mirrodin and COK Block foils. Thanks for talking some sense into me.
Do you know of any cards that combo with One With Nothing?
The ones I've found so far:
Balance
Restore Balance
Sudden Substitution
Mirror Mirror and the Everythingamajig that has the Mirror Mirror mode on it
Anything graveyard based, albeit One With Nothing is the worst possible discard outlet there is
Do you know of any others?
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I get the banding, and I get Dash Hopes. I just don't get why you wanna play One With Nothing when it's one of the least cubeable cards of all time. Putrid Imp is the way to go. The only reason to play one with nothing is to say "look at me, I'm playing one with nothing!" But the obvious card you didn't mention for it is Hive Mind (another card that should never be cubed).
Also, when you're blacking out card text, it's no surprise you get backlash. Why not play Sword of Dungeons & Dragons instead of Sword of War and Peace? The protections are no issue.
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Yeah the Myrnowar cycle is a good idea, I love the art on the original ones. Nice, solid, general purpose cards that aren't broken.
On One with Nothing:
1.) Because obnoxiously narrow, Pee-Wee's playhouse lines of play excite me. So finding a genuine use for One with Nothing makes me excited. For example I had an Empty the Warrens get countered with a Hindering Touch and found it exciting. Last time I cubed I was able to use banding to ignore Maze of Ith.
I also had a Dark Confidant of mine stolen with a Control Magic. Since his life total was lower than mine for most of the game, I couldn't use the Mirror Universe I was planning on using.
Therefore the idea of combo'ing one of the worst spells in the game with Balance or Sudden Substitution excites me.
2.) Griefing Magic players. Because I think that Magic players don't actually like playing the game and everything they like is bad for the game, therefore anything they hate is good for the game.
If Magic players ruined the game by getting Shroud replaced with Hexproof, I feel as though there is nothing wrong with griefing them with fun, fair, interesting cards in turn. It's a middle finger to dumb ***** like Tinker + Blightsteel.
To use a music analogy, the type of Magic that I want to play is Le P'tit Boscot by Berthe Sylva, and I perceive the type of Magic that everyone else wants to play as something like Nickelback or Creed or whatever.
3.) I do genuinely like the art on it. COK block cards look great.
4.) Thanks for the Hive Mind suggestion, I'll consider it.
On blacking out card text:
1.) Sword of War and Peace is the only sword that interests me. I like handsize matters ("Wisdom"). Sword of D&D seems rather obnoxious and would also require more blacking out. I'd black out the D20 roll part.
2.) What is actually wrong with blacking out lines of text? If there is a broken card that you like, what exactly is wrong with fixing the card? Why not, it's a custom draft environment?
Outside of my own reasoning (that Magic players don't actually like having to play the game or interact and making unfair, unfun cards fun and fair bothers them), it hasn't been explained to me why this is so bothersome to many. I'm not even damaging the cards, I'm sharpie'ing the inner sleeve.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Nothing, unless it's not something your cube group is a fan of, which it sounds like is the case here. Plenty of cube groups play with cards using custom errata. Some groups play Chaos Orb as a colorless Vindicate. Some groups have house rules requiring cards be picked over other cards. My group plays with free mulligans. So if your group is on board with playing a sword and ignoring the protections on it, there's nothing at all wrong about that. But if it's something you personally want, but your cube group doesn't like or doesn't enjoy, then you may have to concede. Forcing unwanted house rules on your group seems like an easy way to a one man cube night.
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But why don't they like it? What is so objectionable about playing reasonable versions of Jitte or a Sword or Batterskull? You haven't offered an explanation.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Because they should have done it right and/or they did give at least minimal thought to this spectrum of use since about the existence of planeswalkers. Therefore, if that one's too good there's another that's meant to be used with that set of preferences. The cards do what they do. It's a target audience bugaboo quality.
For the opposite reason why you don't. Your opinion is not somehow more valid than theirs. Your concept that the card needs to be "fixed" is not superior to the opinion that the card is better off used as printed.
Some of us like to play with Magic cards. We use oracle text ruling for everything. We like to use obtained historical knowledge about cards to inform our decisions when cubing. None of that works when you no longer get to play with real Magic cards. It stops feeling like Magic and starts feeling like your game. I'm one of the people that loses interest in formats that contain custom cards. I'd much rather play with a cube that excludes Swords than one that changes them. But that's me.
You should design a cube that your playgroup wants to play with. The guy that doesn't want to play a sharpied cube isn't doing anything wrong. Nor are you for wanting to play with your own customized stuff. It boils down to personal preference. Find the build that makes everyone happy, otherwise you'll wind up with a pile of cards nobody's using.
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I also frequent the peasant forum here, so I saw how you spent the last few days repeating your same unpopular opinions over and over in the main peasant cube thread until most of the regulars over there flat out blocked you. So it seems as if your ideas didn't catch on there and you've just decided to come out here to the main forum and try again. Your opinion, however far off from the norm it may be, is certainly valid, but you can't keep saying these same things and expect validation from a group of people who don't tend to share your mindset. You just end up driving people away instead of creating meaningful discussion. And, just like with the guy in your group who doesn't want to cube with your Sharpied cards, people tend to start ignoring you. It's one thing to debate playing with protection cards in cube by making valid points and arguments as to why you think they're bad for the environment, but the attitude you have here doesn't come off as the type of person who's looking for a friendly debate. You're looking for validation on some pretty radical ideas and you're probably not going to get that here.
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Honestly, your cube looks like a pretty fun low-power environment. I'd play it and enjoy it. But even I would be nonplussed if I opened up a pack with One With Nothing, a sharpied Sword of War and Peace, Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, and Strip Mine in it. And I'm about as big a proponent of low-power cube as you'll find.
To use the music metaphor, people don't blame you for listening to Berthe Sylva (though they probably haven't heard of her), and you shouldn't blame them for liking Nickleback. Taste is taste. But when you're at a party, you don't play Berthe Sylva when you know most people won't like it. I don't play Magma at parties, even though I love Magma-- and I don't play whatever crap is popular now either. I play something like David Bowie that everyone will like. Cube is party music, not you hanging out by yourself music. Find something we can all listen to.
We're all here to have fun, and regardless of what you might think, Magic players DO like playing Magic. We had better after spending the money
For more constructive criticism, there are a lot of super janky cards in your cube (which is fine to a point), but there are some very efficient cards in there too that make it feel very first-pick heavy. I guess that's not unlike booster draft, but it's certainly weird to see cards like Strip Mine, Armadillo Cloak, and Solemn Simulacrum in the same pack as cards like Feast of Worms, Akki Lavarunner, and Magnivore (all of which I would cut). Generally my suggestion would be to cut a lot of the chaff.
Some jank is fine: you have a battlecruiser format, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think you could get fun stuff going with cards like Zzzyxas's Abyss and Rowen in an environment weak enough to support them. But some of the jank is just too janky, and I think you know it.
I too once played Rock Hydra. I once played Gravebane Zombie, Primalcrux, Kormus Bell, Hunted Troll, Rootwater Thief, Thallid, Pallimud, Bad Moon, Death's Shadow, Talara's Battalion, and a lot of other stanky jank. It was very important for me to learn to kill my darlings as it were. These cards weren't helping the format, even if it woulda been awesome to win with the 9/9 Death's Shadow, or get that early Talara's Battalion. It turns out that reliable cards that have a lot of potential synergy made for a much better format than cards like Erayo, Soratami Ascendant that might work someday if you believe in the heart of the cards. I know you love cards that aren't supposed to work but'll be a story when they do. That's fine when the card has a solid floor, but if not, it should probably be cut, even if it hurts.
Your cube is top-heavy, but that's not too bad for a battle-cruiser format. However, some of the fatties seem unreliable to me, and you don't need to save up mana for a card that doesn't work. Are you really casting Patron of the Orochi or Patron of the Kitsune reliably? You need to have at least four snakes/foxes in your deck to keep them from being dead, and I doubt the format can promise that. Are you getting a worthwhile discount on Broodstar? Maybe you are: you do have a lot of artifacts. Is Teeka's Dragon ever worth the mana? or Brass Herald? I really kinda doubt it. And I do think you should play both Refurbish and Argivian Restoration to make it possible to cheat out those big artifacts in a completely fair way. And hey, this is battle-cruiser-- there's not a single 7-10 drop white creature. Something like Blazing Archon or Wakening Sun's Avatar, or even Oyobi, Who Split the Heavens are about the right speed for your cube-- or Eternal Dragon if you want a good card-- you could use some fatties that are useful early.
And hey, you probably hate planeswalkers, but I think this is the perfect format for a card like Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted. The Wanderer might even get some rare usage here with all the fatties running around. Jaya, Venerated Firemage is a lot better than Akki Lavarunner. In case you can't tell, I'm a big fan of the WAR uncommon walkers in low-power environments. But feel free to ignore me here: as nifty as some of them are, you don't NEED them.
Just to note, even if Balance does sorta kinda work with One With Nothing, I'd play the former in my deck (cause it's nuts) and not the latter (cause it's unplayable), even if I had a decent graveyard theme. I think you should cut both cards, because Balance is anything but balanced, and One With Nothing is one of the least playable cards in history.
I do feel like you are playing some pretty bad cards just because they are arcane. most of them are fine, but some of the weaker ones should probably go. Some of the banding cards are a bit weak as well, but like arcane, there is a very small pool to pull from. You don't need to make brutal cuts to these strategies (or you'll kill the strategy), but I have a hard time seeing Icatian Skirmishers going anywhere.
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Erayo is a bad card? I was under the impression that it's a decent one. It's a nice storm payoff. At worst it's just a 2 mana 1/1 flier.
Why is Strip Mine OP? It's just a one for one. Because I have a bunch of powerful lands, I like ways to interact with them. It adds depth to something that normally has zero depth to it.
Brass Herald is too expensive. My red section used to be Goblin Tribal, but now I have more spirits in my cube than I do Goblins lol. I cut it last night, maybe I'll put it back in for spirits, idk.
Teeka's Dragon isn't good. I'm going to be cutting it when I get a Mycosynth Golem and Blightsteel Colossus. Going to sharpie off infect and replace it with Wither, that way even the remotest possibility cheating it out with Reweave or Through the Breach and insta-winning isn't possible. I don't count Infect as playing Magic either, you start with 20 life, not 10, that's just cheating.
Icarian Skirmishers is legitimately garbage. If it granted first strike to defensive bands it's be great, but as-is nah.
Oyobi is a great idea, thanks.
I do in fact hate Mistakewalkers. The mechanics are interesting, but most of them read like, "On your first main phase, put a charge counter on this permanent. If this has 3 three charge counters on it instead of adding a charge counter you may remove them and win the game." Besides for the handful of original lorwyn ones they all have art that I hate looking at. I hate the art on the vast majority of new Magic cards. I had Urza, Academy Headmaster in my cube for one draft and it basically functioned exactly as I imagined, I put three charge counters on it, then my opponent lost the game. Some of the new uncommon Mistakewalkers would be fine but I'd rather play more pretty COK Block cards instead.
If I was hosting a party I'd play Berthe Sylva. Why not? What you're telling me is that taste is subjective, therefore I shouldn't subject others to what I like in favor of subjecting myself to the crap they like. If taste is subjective, why is the subjective taste of others more valid than mine? If it's their party, they can play the stuff that they like.
I play my friend's proxied MTGO Vintage cube despite awful garbage like Tinker + Blightsteel and Eureka. I don't sperg out about that stuff, but I cross out Pro:Red&White from a Sword and that's what makes my cube undraftable?
I don't believe that any human experience is subjective by the way, we're all just animals responding to stimulus in a deterministic universe. I kind of apply the argument made in Sam Harris' The Moral Landscape to everything. So I do genuinely think that Monet is qualitatively better than Jackson Pollack, Beethoven objectively better than Creed, and likewise fun, fair, interactive Magic as my Lord and Savior Richard Garfield intended to be objectively superior to noninteractive Magic such as Hexproof or cheat decks. Other human experiences can be quantified and getting Louis C.K.'ed by someone obnoxious Tron deck or whatever is an objectively worse experience than an interactive game where decisions matter.
I think that, "Fun is subjective" is just an excuse to shield unfun things from legitimate criticism. And it's also a way to defend the shoving the shoving of the status quo on others. "Music is subjective, therefore my subjective view that Nickelback and Foreigner and country music should be the only things played on the radio is superior to what you like and if I had to listen to a Tino Rossi song you'd be FORCING what YOU like on me, which is something only I'm allowed to do!"
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
We should've listened.
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I have a bunch of "Wisdom" cards in my cube and the, "each player draws a card" cards have synergy with those and the 2-3 mill cards I have in my cube. Since some of the kill cards are artifacts like Ebony Owl Netsuke, they'd also synergize with Mycosynth Golem and Golem Foundry and whatnot.
Plus, they're symmetrical effects, which is something that's neat.
At first glance they seem like parasitic niche cards, but there are a lot of neat synergies.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
We put together some low power stuff sometimes and you are right that Icatian Skirmishers don't cut it. And that is in decks that use some of the other Icatian banders from Fallen Empires.
Yeah, the fact that it only conditionally grants the band first strike on attacking really makes it unplayable. Banding is better on defense because you only need one of the blockers to have banding in order to be able to redistribute the combat damage, and if it granted First Strike on defense it would be worth playing.
Some funny interactions I've noticed with Banding:
1.) It's both a counter to and has synergy with Maze of Ith. When your opponent goes to maze your banded creature, you can shunt all the damage to it and it gets prevented. Likewise you can Maze one of the attacking creatures in your own band and take no damage.
It's pretty cool that one of the most powerful cards in the game is countered by one of the weakest, most fair, most reviled keywords in the game, haha.
2.) It has synergy with other obscure combat abilities. Provoke, Bushido, Rampage (if Rampage didn't suck), Flanking, and Lone Sentry/Gorgon Recluse-esque abilities. Also has synergy with protection if you're into that sort of thing.
3.) With 2 1/1's both blocking in a band you can stop a 15/15 trample creature and not take any spillover trample damage. This is because the rules for trample are something like, "when you deal lethal damage to all creatures blocking it, deal the excess to the player" and banding allows you redistribute combat damage and not take lethal on both 1/1's if you don't want to.
___________________
I put a pair of Brothers Yamakazi into my cube as a package deal card, meaning that you get 2 copies of BY by drafting the single card. When you draft it you reveal it and skip your next 2 draft picks unless it's the last card in a pack. You're still allowed to look at the packs you skip.
Up until now, the package deal cards in my cube haven't been "real cards", mostly just junk like Ornithopter, Shield Sphere, Tormod's Crypt, the artifact lands, Urza's Bauble, or lands like Tron or 6post, etc. Stuff that isn't really all that good individually (like say, fountain of youth or bone saw) or can't really be drafted normally (like Tron or Posts) but may be worth playing if you got it packaged with other cards.
My package deal cards are:
Ornithopter
Shield Sphere
Phyrexian Walker
Bone Saw
Tormod's Crypt
Fountain of Youth
Claws of Gix
Jeweled Amulet
Zuran Orb
Urza's Bauble
Mishra's Bauble
Spellbook
One of each of the 6 artifact lands
3 of each UrzaTron land + Glasses of Urza + Urza's Chalice + Urza's Hot Tub + Urza's Engine
3 Cloudposts & 3 Glimmerposts
The one with Zuran Orb hasn't come up in a draft yet, but the other cards see play. Tron takes up a bunch of deck slots and makes drafting fixing necessary unless you're playing mono colored and also is harder to assemble without what it normally has in constructed to aid it like Expedition Map, albeit Hot Tub helps.
Hypothetically the zero mana artifact packages could also be used in storm. Hasn't been tried yet but seems okay if you get enough payoffs. The zero mana creatures and cards like Zuran Orb would also allow you to sit there and prolong games until you found your storm pieces.
Post is a bit better in this regard in that it only takes up 6 slots and gains you life. It's definitely the better of the two, however on average you only see about 3 of the lands in a normal game so while it's good it's not really breaking anything.
So if I have "real cards" in a package deal I want there to be a downside associated with it. Is that enough if a downside? Not enough? I made sure that it doesn't screw you if it's the last pick.
I'm also thinking about how to add a package deal of 4 copies of S.N.O.T.. Idk, is S.N.O.T. even good lol? I have trouble evaluating it because you're opening yourself up to getting two-fered. The floor is that you just get 4 1/1's in your draft pool with only 1 pick.
Maybe skip the 3 next picks?
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
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Have you eschewed green ramp altogether? When my cube was still a Pauper cube I did that and included as many 4 mana 5/5's and 5/4's as I could and it was easily the best deck in my cube. I changed it back to ramp because shoving mono Gurmag Angler is a bit boring.
The only ramp dorks I have are werebear because I like the art on it (Carl Critchlow is my favorite artist) and it's interesting with Threshold and Qurion Ranger. I suppose I have Petalmane Baku too. The rest of the ramp is stuff like Kodama's Reach, Krosan Tusker, Elder Pine of Jukai, Yavimaya Elder, Sakura Tribe Elder, Sprouting Vines, etc. More land based stuff.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
@Salt: I have both actually almost evenly. Technically Krosan Tusker, Elder Pine of Jukai, Yavimaya Elder and Sprouting Vines are not ramp since they don't increase your mana but more fixing both colorwise and landdrop wise. If I include these kinds in the count its more land based.
I get that fetching lands and not getting extra land drops per turn isn't strictly ramp per se, but ensuring that you can make land drops consistently sort of is so I count it as ramp.
If you're trying to hard cast Iname as One or some other 6-7+ CMC card, not missing lands drops will get you there faster than missing them.
I don't know what to call it really. I'll play an Orzhov Basilica in a Golgari or Mono Black deck just to "psuedo ramp" a little also.
I guess I'm arguing that ramp isn't strictly getting to 4 mana on turn 2 or what have you, it's more, "Having access to more mana than you normally would".
I have the 15 mana Flying Spaghetti Monster in my cube with the full intention of one actually having to pay 15 mana for Him. Anything that gets you there I view as ramp, lol.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
They're just okay. Four turns in you draw the one that you found in the draft and now you're at 5 mana instead of 4. It's not really moxes that are busted in cube, it's land -> Mox -> Sol Ring -> Basalt Monolith -> pass the turn that's obnoxious. Without those other pieces they're not much better than Llanowar Elves.
They help storm a little and artifact synergies.
I even had one game where I played one first main phase and it pumped my friend's Wing Shards, lol.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Last time I drafted my opponent had Psychatog + Bottled Cloister going. For a few turns I had to chump it to prevent myself from dying, and then I drew Yuki-Onni and destroyed the cloister. He then RFG'ed his whole hand (which I didn't realize would happen, I assumed for whatever reason he would just get his cards back), chumped it with Goblin Cohort, and killed it with Crushing Pain. He could have saved it by exiling his entire graveyard and the few cards he drew in the turns after the cloister got destroyed, but he opted not to discard his whole hand. Next turn I would have been able to kill it with the 7 ki counters I had stored up on Skullmane Baku.
He got down to 6 cards in library and finally got in with Arashi, the sky asunder and Cloudhoof kirin beats. I played Enter the Dungeon on him when he got to 6 cards but my friend/store owner told me you don't autolose the main game, just the subgame. I think that's wrong but whatever, still a crazy game.
EDIT: Just looked it up. You do only lose the subgame, not the main game for having less than 7 when you enter a subgame.
The -onni cyle is pretty nice actually, especially with damage on the stack. They're a more exciting version of hate bears.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
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I'm not really sure how to move forward with my cube. It's sorta where I want it to be, but it still feels a bit off-balanced for some reason. I always end up forcing blue black control, and it almost always feels like it's the correct thing to do (this in a cube with some number of big beaters, red burn, channel fireball/disintigrate, white weenies/land tax/scroll rack, and so on).
Also, just curious, how many creatures is considered ok for a cube? more specifically, a 360 vintage powered urza's block and older with ante cube. So far, each colour has 50 cards, and has somewhere between 16-28 creatures per colour + 16 colourless creatures. One of the things that has made UB control great is the abyss, nether void, recall, contract from below. plus the potential for tinker into time vault/grim monolithvoltaic key, icy manipulator/winter orb/static orb. I wanna keep that level of power up, but somehow make the other colours 'better'.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom