I think I might make the rest of the playable DFCs, actually. I wanted to remove the flavor text to de-clutter these anyway. Let me know if you have any requests!
Other playables for rendering:
Garruk Relentless
Cloistered Youth
Wolfbitten Captive
Mayor of Avabruck
maybe Ludevic's Test Subject
the 2/2 for WW that becomes black when it flips...Loyal Cathar?
I printed proxies of the cards which say [See box for actual card] and have no rules text. They basically just look exactly like the card, but in the text box it says that. In the box I have them in clear penny sleeves so they're easy to flip.
That's all there is to it. It was pretty simple to implement. It's not seamless but the only Garruk Relentless I had was a foil and I was not really wanting a random dude with Cheeto fingers flipping it if I could avoid it.
Those are awesome! Thank you for making them for the community. Any chance of making a Garruk Relentless? It seems like it would be too much text unless you eliminated some or all of the art.
I posted these over in the Digital Rendering Thread here. The others I made originally are in an earlier post there too. For those of you who try to make it easier for new players, is there any confusion about what transforming entails, when the cards are sleeved?
You can find all the single-sided DFC renders in the rendering thread:
The earlier renders lack the extra text shadowing that was added to improve readability, but the original template file should have all the separate component layers for each card if there's interest in redoing them in the newer style, or fixing any mistakes.
Oh, neat! You don't have it on cubetutor anymore, though?
I ended up not being thrilled with the first try so I scrapped it. It is more of a simulator now than a cube in the strictest of senses - 3x commons, 2x uncommons, 1x rares and mythics.
I used to ban DFC's for the awkwardness of the flipping. I then really wanted some of them (Garruk Relentless, Reckless Waif and Huntmaster of the Fells and ended up proxying the backside and keeping them with the tokens. Recently I double sleeved my cube and perfect fit sleeved my tokens and DFC flip card as well.
I really liked those BetweenWalls's renders that had both in one side. If you will do those three cards, I will for sure use them and keep the actual cards in with the tokens. This way the more inexperienced players can see the backside during a draft. Cool idea!
How I handle my Double-faced Cards: I have them sleeved in transparent sleeves, so that everyone can check everything about the cards during the draft, and I sleeved the corresponding checklists with the same sleeves as the rest of the cube to use during play (as you would do in a 3xINN draft).
How I handle my Double-faced Cards: I have them sleeved in transparent sleeves, so that everyone can check everything about the cards during the draft, and I sleeved the corresponding checklists with the same sleeves as the rest of the cube to use during play (as you would do in a 3xINN draft).
That's what I was going to do, but I really think the checklist cards are both ugly and completely uninformative to newer players. I have a strict policy to not play any non-english or textless cards, and I prefer modern wording when I can get it. (Though, I play an old foil Tinker, because I like the old border...)
I posted these over in the Digital Rendering Thread here.
Wow that Garruk came out beautiful. I may try to print one of these. Nice work!
Quote from mrbrightside »
How I handle my Double-faced Cards: I have them sleeved in transparent sleeves, so that everyone can check everything about the cards during the draft, and I sleeved the corresponding checklists with the same sleeves as the rest of the cube to use during play (as you would do in a 3xINN draft)
That's a nice alternative solution. I like that it doesn't require any additional handling by the players to take the cards in and out of the sleeves continually. Thanks for the tip.
I know this is a pretty huge necro, but has anyone seen any proxies for the Origins PW flip cards? I want to add those to my cube and use the "proxies in the cube, actuals (in clear sleeves) in the tokens."
Sorry to pull a Necromancy on this thread, but I figured it would be relevant for people (especially newer cubers) again with SOI coming out.
My process:
My group decided early on that the manualv transforming in and out of the sleeve was too much of a hassle and bad for the cards. I also had first hand Constructed experience with this method during Innistrad's Standard legality (Werewolf tribal). So we use Checklist cards in the Cube proper and have DFCS in transparent doublesleeves. They're technically with the tokens, but we make a point of doing something special to highlight them:
Before the draft, I spend a few minutes letting people know about the DFCS and what each one is. People could look at all (both sides) and have their effects fresh in their mind when drafting. Plus, once the draft is in session, they don't have to worry about revealing certain cards to the entire table--always awkward in the native retail draft environment--or asking what the checklist does.
Thus method has proven successful for us, though I'll grant that this new set might put it to the test. (Previously, the only DFCS we had were all limited to relatively famous Constructed hits.)
I've found no issues with simply taking the card out of the sleeve, flipping it, and putting it back in the sleeve. I thought it would be more of a hassle now that we've double sleeved, but it's really not. I can understand why some would choose to go about it a different way, but I've not seen the need. The only time it's annoying is when your opponent slow rolls removal of some sort and makes you go through the whole flipping process only to immediately kill the flip side. But even then, that's mostly just a personal frustration.
Single-sided DFCs are still my favorite for drafting, especially considering how infrequently I see them. FYI, I've kept my last post in this thread updated with those.
Those digital renders look really cool, and thanks for posting your updates, but how do you represent which side is active during gameplay? Put a counter on the active half? The night side isn't upside-down like the Kamigawa flip cards, so turning it upside-down seems a bit awkward. I'm tempted to try them while I test some of the new SOI cards, but I'd like to know how you actually use them during game play.
I hate the checklists, they seem really awkward during the draft and I don't think anyone wants me to have to explain the specifics of what cards do before the draft. Double-sleeving with opaque sleeves isn't a perfect solution, but the perfect fit protects the cards well enough when people have to take them out of the outer sleeve.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I have all mine double sleeved, so whenever one of the half dozen or so flip cards get drafted, I just pop it out of the larger sleeve for flipping. It's a bit annoying, but it's not that awful.
Those digital renders look really cool, and thanks for posting your updates, but how do you represent which side is active during gameplay? Put a counter on the active half? The night side isn't upside-down like the Kamigawa flip cards, so turning it upside-down seems a bit awkward. I'm tempted to try them while I test some of the new SOI cards, but I'd like to know how you actually use them during game play.
I hate the checklists, they seem really awkward during the draft and I don't think anyone wants me to have to explain the specifics of what cards do before the draft. Double-sleeving with opaque sleeves isn't a perfect solution, but the perfect fit protects the cards well enough when people have to take them out of the outer sleeve.
I made those specifically for drafting, with the idea that they get replaced by the real card (in a clear sleeve) once you cast them, as you would with checklist cards. That way, nothing is ever desleeved/resleeved.
I use the checklist in the cube plus a clear sleeve for the DFC, if I can't afford 2 copies of the card. But I really like those mockups for my cube, instead of the checklist.
I personally do not like the unsleeve/resleeve method, but to each their own. I'd much prefer owning 2 copies if all possible.
Single-sided DFCs are still my favorite for drafting, especially considering how infrequently I see them. FYI, I've kept my last post in this thread updated with those.
Thanks fpr updating. I like them really much. Could you do one for Gatstaf Arsonists? It's getting played in some pauper cubes and I would like to have one of these.
Thanks fpr updating. I like them really much. Could you do one for Gatstaf Arsonists? It's getting played in some pauper cubes and I would like to have one of these.
I avoided adding in DFC for a long time, but I honestly think they compliment my cube very well. The Origin walkers are what finally convinced me to go in, but the other Innistrad cards mentioned here are amazing.
I have either a duplicate or a proxy in normal sleeve for draft/deck, and the real card in a clear double sleeve to flip easily while in play. I also have cheat sheets printed with translations for my Japanese cards / text for my full art cards, and both sides of every DFC are listed there as well (these prevent new/older returning players from having to ask during draft, spoiling whats in the pack and tipping their colors)
Agree with this thread's concerns!
Issues:
DFC are hard to put in cube especially the playable DFC are complex ones, and hard to put into heart.
Desleeving and resleeving every pass of the draft is such a pain.
No decent proxies are feasible. (Single faced proxy idea is great, but somehow a newbie will be confused by it)
My solution (not a unique one, but this will have to do)
1. A checklist card or a 2nd copy of the DFC is placed in a draft
2. The real card is in a transparent sleeve you use only in play. Put it along with your token cards.
Advantage: absolutely no resleeving
Disadvantage: You will be drafting with an ugly checklist card, and you have to reference the main card.
My 2nd choice:
1. The DFC, while in the draft pool is sleeved in a transparent sleeve.
It simulates real DFC drafing in a sense that it can be seen by others.
2. When you put it in your deck, you change sleeves to opaque. Desleeve/resleeve when it flips.
Advantage: No need for a 2nd copy
Disadvantage: there is still resleeving
The descriptive proxy option is pretty solid, honestly. I'd wouldn't forget about it or dismiss it.
I don't do it myself mostly because I've grown to dislike printout proxies (I've had a long and tortured history with them). Still, if you have a way to make really quality (or at least color) printouts, that method is worth considering.
I think my group actually kinda digs the checklists in a sort of ingroupy "get on my level" way. Most of us have memorized the DFCs (like most of the other cards), and it's simply a matter of training the newer people before the draft.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Other playables for rendering:
Garruk Relentless
Cloistered Youth
Wolfbitten Captive
Mayor of Avabruck
maybe Ludevic's Test Subject
the 2/2 for WW that becomes black when it flips...Loyal Cathar?
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
That's all there is to it. It was pretty simple to implement. It's not seamless but the only Garruk Relentless I had was a foil and I was not really wanting a random dude with Cheeto fingers flipping it if I could avoid it.
Huntmaster of the Fells
http://i.imgur.com/kqtQQxo.jpg
Mayor of Avabruck
http://i.imgur.com/1Y5YSwS.jpg
Oh, neat! You don't have it on cubetutor anymore, though?
Sure!
I posted these over in the Digital Rendering Thread here. The others I made originally are in an earlier post there too. For those of you who try to make it easier for new players, is there any confusion about what transforming entails, when the cards are sleeved?
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/creativity/artwork/340782-official-digital-rendering-thread?page=178#c5283
EDIT: Also linking them here.
Big album of earlier SSDFCs (71)
SSDFCs - Eldritch Moon (15), and also the Meld renders (6)
SSDFCs - Ixalan (10)
SSDFCs - Rivals of Ixalan (7)
Nicol Bolas SSDFC - M19
The earlier renders lack the extra text shadowing that was added to improve readability, but the original template file should have all the separate component layers for each card if there's interest in redoing them in the newer style, or fixing any mistakes.
I ended up not being thrilled with the first try so I scrapped it. It is more of a simulator now than a cube in the strictest of senses - 3x commons, 2x uncommons, 1x rares and mythics.
I really liked those BetweenWalls's renders that had both in one side. If you will do those three cards, I will for sure use them and keep the actual cards in with the tokens. This way the more inexperienced players can see the backside during a draft. Cool idea!
Former DCI L2 Judge
My old Cube podcast on ManaDeprived, with Goodking and artbcnco: http://manadeprived.com/podcasts/mtgin3d/
You can find me on Twitter as well.
That's what I was going to do, but I really think the checklist cards are both ugly and completely uninformative to newer players. I have a strict policy to not play any non-english or textless cards, and I prefer modern wording when I can get it. (Though, I play an old foil Tinker, because I like the old border...)
Wow that Garruk came out beautiful. I may try to print one of these. Nice work!
That's a nice alternative solution. I like that it doesn't require any additional handling by the players to take the cards in and out of the sleeves continually. Thanks for the tip.
Cheers
Here's the link!
My process:
My group decided early on that the manualv transforming in and out of the sleeve was too much of a hassle and bad for the cards. I also had first hand Constructed experience with this method during Innistrad's Standard legality (Werewolf tribal). So we use Checklist cards in the Cube proper and have DFCS in transparent doublesleeves. They're technically with the tokens, but we make a point of doing something special to highlight them:
Before the draft, I spend a few minutes letting people know about the DFCS and what each one is. People could look at all (both sides) and have their effects fresh in their mind when drafting. Plus, once the draft is in session, they don't have to worry about revealing certain cards to the entire table--always awkward in the native retail draft environment--or asking what the checklist does.
Thus method has proven successful for us, though I'll grant that this new set might put it to the test. (Previously, the only DFCS we had were all limited to relatively famous Constructed hits.)
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
I hate the checklists, they seem really awkward during the draft and I don't think anyone wants me to have to explain the specifics of what cards do before the draft. Double-sleeving with opaque sleeves isn't a perfect solution, but the perfect fit protects the cards well enough when people have to take them out of the outer sleeve.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I made those specifically for drafting, with the idea that they get replaced by the real card (in a clear sleeve) once you cast them, as you would with checklist cards. That way, nothing is ever desleeved/resleeved.
I personally do not like the unsleeve/resleeve method, but to each their own. I'd much prefer owning 2 copies if all possible.
Thanks fpr updating. I like them really much. Could you do one for Gatstaf Arsonists? It's getting played in some pauper cubes and I would like to have one of these.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
I have either a duplicate or a proxy in normal sleeve for draft/deck, and the real card in a clear double sleeve to flip easily while in play. I also have cheat sheets printed with translations for my Japanese cards / text for my full art cards, and both sides of every DFC are listed there as well (these prevent new/older returning players from having to ask during draft, spoiling whats in the pack and tipping their colors)
Issues:
DFC are hard to put in cube especially the playable DFC are complex ones, and hard to put into heart.
Desleeving and resleeving every pass of the draft is such a pain.
No decent proxies are feasible. (Single faced proxy idea is great, but somehow a newbie will be confused by it)
My solution (not a unique one, but this will have to do)
1. A checklist card or a 2nd copy of the DFC is placed in a draft
2. The real card is in a transparent sleeve you use only in play. Put it along with your token cards.
Advantage: absolutely no resleeving
Disadvantage: You will be drafting with an ugly checklist card, and you have to reference the main card.
My 2nd choice:
1. The DFC, while in the draft pool is sleeved in a transparent sleeve.
It simulates real DFC drafing in a sense that it can be seen by others.
2. When you put it in your deck, you change sleeves to opaque. Desleeve/resleeve when it flips.
Advantage: No need for a 2nd copy
Disadvantage: there is still resleeving
I don't do it myself mostly because I've grown to dislike printout proxies (I've had a long and tortured history with them). Still, if you have a way to make really quality (or at least color) printouts, that method is worth considering.
I think my group actually kinda digs the checklists in a sort of ingroupy "get on my level" way. Most of us have memorized the DFCs (like most of the other cards), and it's simply a matter of training the newer people before the draft.
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube