I am wanting to build a cube that is entirely composed of cards from one set (or one block). Basically, what I would like to see is a cube that mimics the actual limited format of that set/block as closely as possible (i.e. the cube's boosters will try to be as similar as possible to opening an actual booster of the set).
For each rarity, what would be the best distribution of cards to include?
I assume including 1x of each rare is probably the way to go.... but what about commons and uncommons?
I've seen some lists that included 2x of every common/uncommon, but that doesn't seem like it would provide a sufficient number of cards to have the typical 3x uncommon and 10x common pack...
What are your opinions about:
-2x each common and uncommon
-3x of each common and 2x of each uncommon
-4x of each common and 2x of each uncommon
-5x of each common and 3x of each uncommon
etc, etc.
What would generally be necessary to have a sufficient number of cards for an 8 player draft?
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
After watching the GP this weekend I'm looking into building a KTK cube that can be used with my friends, so this article has been on my brain since Saturday. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt his math from RTR to whatever set/block you're looking at replicating.
I own a bunch of draft sims, mostly using the 4c/2u/1r rarity distribution scheme. I've sleeved them all with the same kind of ultra pros, so all I need to do is transfer the mana station between them and draft; this saves about 160-200 sleeves per sim. I've been very please with my collection, except that pretty much the only set folks in my group want to play is rise of the eldrazi. I'm waiting for the day that memories of innistrad are distant enough that my group wants to relive that one...
I wasn't planning to build one for khans at first, but the unique wedge theme, fun limited, and fantastic art pushed me over the edge after prerelease. I'm currently collecting in anticipation of making a sim with a 2c/2u/1r distribution ~ more to have khans-flavored, 2 player sealed simulator, than something I would use with the whole cube group.
I wasn't planning to build one for khans at first, but the unique wedge theme, fun limited, and fantastic art pushed me over the edge after prerelease. I'm currently collecting in anticipation of making a sim with a 2c/2u/1r distribution ~ more to have khans-flavored, 2 player sealed simulator, than something I would use with the whole cube group.
Are you going with the 2c/2u/1r split because it is for 2 players, or because this set has 80 uncommons instead of the usual 60 for a set this size?
I'm planning to make a 2/2/1 just to reduce requirements for cards, sleeves, and storage. Even though I'm cutting down considerably the redundancy of common cards, I'm confident that it will still feel a lot like drafting/sealed khans. Also, since only a couple of my cube friends are as enthusiastic about draft sims as I am, I'm not planning to go as all out with this one, so that I'm not spending too much effort for something that will be played infrequently.
Interestingly, khans is actually a very consistent set as far as overall power and utility of its rares. Although it'll be a few more weeks before folks can compare the quality of the environment to titans like RoE and 3xINN, I've been hearing a lot of esteem for the quality of the game play. Once prices have cooled on a lot of the cards, I bet this wouldn't be too expensive of a set to give the draft sim treatment to.
The Block/Set cube question seems to come up on a regular basis here. I know a guy who did one for Alara Block, and another who did one with Rise of Eldrazi. I just don't think those cubes can maintain the drafter interest that normal cubes have. I wanted to make one for Mirage Block, but then I felt that no one would want to draft it on a regular (or even semi-regular) basis.
I have made a Khans of Tarkir cube with a 3c/2uc/1r/1m ratio, but tweaking the common dual lands to 4 each, cutting useless (in Limited) cards like Shatter, Ugin's Nexus, Lens of Clarity, etc.
Played sealed with my nephew over the holidays a few times and it was a blast. For a long time I've been trying to find a format where I can play with children without feeling bored (note: Duel Decks are horrible to play with children), and this seems to be it.
Off topic: As for the KTK limited environment itself, WoTC really did a fantastic job here. I'm in the MTGO beta for Leagues and i've built 30+ KTK sealed decks and i've not been bored. I found myself staying awake at 2 a.m, going, "just one more match to crack my next booster for my league deck". Dare I say it? It's my favorite MTG format now, KTK league, bar none (and I play almost everything, Vintage/Legacy/Modern/EDH/Standard/Pauper).
EDIT: Just drafted this for the first time at an LGS with 4 others and it was a blast! I think increasing the number of the duals was a right move, even with that increase it was still difficult to get all the fixing you need so the tension between picking a spell or a land is still there.
I host a regular draft group of 8-10 players, we call it Cubesday.
I own about 7 different cubes, most of which have are block cubes.
You can see my cubes in sight below, but I like to stick with a curated 3x common, 2x uncommon, 1x rare mythic ratio. Kamigawa is probably the most popular.
I host a regular draft group of 8-10 players, we call it Cubesday.
I own about 7 different cubes, most of which have are block cubes.
Really neat! How do you guys usually draft the cubes? Do you form packs using the 10/3/1 retail split or just shuffle the entire cube and deal out random packs?
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Modern:
Bant | U Tron | GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Scapeshift | UW Tron | UW Midrange
We arent set by any standard, but it is usually either separated into colors and then distributed "relatively" evenly in each pack, or I'll separate commons and uncommons from the rares first and then do the distribution evenly by color.
It's not so much recreating an exact draft of the old format, it's more keeping the essence of the old format intact and really delivering hard on the major mechanics and synergies of those blocks. It feels like the most powerful draft you've ever had with just that block. Lots of build-arounds, chaff-cutting, and balancing at work.
We arent set by any standard, but it is usually either separated into colors and then distributed "relatively" evenly in each pack, or I'll separate commons and uncommons from the rares first and then do the distribution evenly by color.
That sounds good. It came up in the draft yesterday, the imbalance of colors in packs. Surprisingly, we never really ran into this problem in regular cube drafts, but in set cubes somehow this becomes a bigger issue. I've had too many packs where I had literally zero picks because they simply weren't in my colors.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
Bant | U Tron | GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Scapeshift | UW Tron | UW Midrange
I wanted to come back to this thread once I finally got my Modern Masters cube up on cubetutor. (You can find it in the sig.) We always have a blast playing it because the set was focused on draft with only itself and synergies therein. We just shuffle and mash all cards into 15-card packs just like a regular cube and everything works out. The archetype-defining cards get well-distributed and even then most cards fit into multiple archetypes. Rares are rare enough to create excitement upon opening them and there's a good amount of duplicate cards to create some consistency when they show up. Overall, it just feels great to slot into an open archetype or just make up something new with value cards.
Barring a few removals/additions I've made, it plays extremely closely to opening real MM packs, without the rare-drafting and busted Swords of X&Y. I've tried drafting other set cubes and been somewhat disappointed because the power level is not as exciting and there is generally only a handful of dominant decks to draft. There's something magical about MMA that keeps myself and my friends drafting it.
(Any other suggestions for cards that feel like they should have been in MMA would be awesome!)
The GameCube, a 500 cube with a medium power level and a focus on fun and fringe playables rather than immediately shutting your opponent down with the best cards ever printed.
Modem Masters, a 500 cube that tries to capture the essence of a Modern Masters set draft. 3 of each common, 2 of each uncommon, 1 of each rare, few mythics. Includes minor changes for balance reasons to give certain archetypes the tools they need to succeed.
How does the rare/ mythic rare slot work out? One of the worst experiences of limited play is getting blown out by an unbalanced rare and these block cubes seem to be going for more of a limited style feel. Frankly, I am kind of surprised it is not yet common practice to ban all the rares during limited play.
How does the rare/ mythic rare slot work out? One of the worst experiences of limited play is getting blown out by an unbalanced rare and these block cubes seem to be going for more of a limited style feel.
There are a couple interrelated solutions for this:
1. only build a draft sim for a set with an unimpeachable reputation for quality limited, like Rise, Innistrad, Modern Masters. You don't hear about many Zendikar, Gatecrash, Shadowmoor, etc cubes, because these sets were generally considered bad for limited play. Few people want to relive the experience.
2. Manipulating the card pool to smooth the draft experience. In my sims, I always exclude planeswalkers, and I usually keep a weather eye out for cards with bad reputations for wrecking drafts, like drana, kalastria bloodchief or pack rat. I also usually try to identify and cut the lowest rated commons and uncommons. Frequently these are SB-only cards and role players for constructed, like ancient grudge in innistrad ~ not super relevant to limited.
For each rarity, what would be the best distribution of cards to include?
I assume including 1x of each rare is probably the way to go.... but what about commons and uncommons?
I've seen some lists that included 2x of every common/uncommon, but that doesn't seem like it would provide a sufficient number of cards to have the typical 3x uncommon and 10x common pack...
What are your opinions about:
-2x each common and uncommon
-3x of each common and 2x of each uncommon
-4x of each common and 2x of each uncommon
-5x of each common and 3x of each uncommon
etc, etc.
What would generally be necessary to have a sufficient number of cards for an 8 player draft?
Thanks
4x Commons, 3x Uncommons, 2x Rares, 1x Mythics.
Although I personally prefer 2x Mythics.
Cube Design - Set Cubes
After watching the GP this weekend I'm looking into building a KTK cube that can be used with my friends, so this article has been on my brain since Saturday. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt his math from RTR to whatever set/block you're looking at replicating.
I wasn't planning to build one for khans at first, but the unique wedge theme, fun limited, and fantastic art pushed me over the edge after prerelease. I'm currently collecting in anticipation of making a sim with a 2c/2u/1r distribution ~ more to have khans-flavored, 2 player sealed simulator, than something I would use with the whole cube group.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Are you going with the 2c/2u/1r split because it is for 2 players, or because this set has 80 uncommons instead of the usual 60 for a set this size?
Interestingly, khans is actually a very consistent set as far as overall power and utility of its rares. Although it'll be a few more weeks before folks can compare the quality of the environment to titans like RoE and 3xINN, I've been hearing a lot of esteem for the quality of the game play. Once prices have cooled on a lot of the cards, I bet this wouldn't be too expensive of a set to give the draft sim treatment to.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
Played sealed with my nephew over the holidays a few times and it was a blast. For a long time I've been trying to find a format where I can play with children without feeling bored (note: Duel Decks are horrible to play with children), and this seems to be it.
Off topic: As for the KTK limited environment itself, WoTC really did a fantastic job here. I'm in the MTGO beta for Leagues and i've built 30+ KTK sealed decks and i've not been bored. I found myself staying awake at 2 a.m, going, "just one more match to crack my next booster for my league deck". Dare I say it? It's my favorite MTG format now, KTK league, bar none (and I play almost everything, Vintage/Legacy/Modern/EDH/Standard/Pauper).
EDIT: Just drafted this for the first time at an LGS with 4 others and it was a blast! I think increasing the number of the duals was a right move, even with that increase it was still difficult to get all the fixing you need so the tension between picking a spell or a land is still there.
Bant | U Tron | GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Scapeshift | UW Tron | UW Midrange
I own about 7 different cubes, most of which have are block cubes.
You can see my cubes in sight below, but I like to stick with a curated 3x common, 2x uncommon, 1x rare mythic ratio. Kamigawa is probably the most popular.
Check them out!
450 Invasion Cube
540 All Ravnica Cube
450 Odyssey Cube
450 Kamigawa Cube
360 Mercadian Masques Cube
540 6ED+ Core Set Cube new!
Would love to see your decks/feedback!
Really neat! How do you guys usually draft the cubes? Do you form packs using the 10/3/1 retail split or just shuffle the entire cube and deal out random packs?
Bant | U Tron | GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Scapeshift | UW Tron | UW Midrange
It's not so much recreating an exact draft of the old format, it's more keeping the essence of the old format intact and really delivering hard on the major mechanics and synergies of those blocks. It feels like the most powerful draft you've ever had with just that block. Lots of build-arounds, chaff-cutting, and balancing at work.
450 Invasion Cube
540 All Ravnica Cube
450 Odyssey Cube
450 Kamigawa Cube
360 Mercadian Masques Cube
540 6ED+ Core Set Cube new!
Would love to see your decks/feedback!
That sounds good. It came up in the draft yesterday, the imbalance of colors in packs. Surprisingly, we never really ran into this problem in regular cube drafts, but in set cubes somehow this becomes a bigger issue. I've had too many packs where I had literally zero picks because they simply weren't in my colors.
Bant | U Tron | GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Scapeshift | UW Tron | UW Midrange
Barring a few removals/additions I've made, it plays extremely closely to opening real MM packs, without the rare-drafting and busted Swords of X&Y. I've tried drafting other set cubes and been somewhat disappointed because the power level is not as exciting and there is generally only a handful of dominant decks to draft. There's something magical about MMA that keeps myself and my friends drafting it.
(Any other suggestions for cards that feel like they should have been in MMA would be awesome!)
Modem Masters, a 500 cube that tries to capture the essence of a Modern Masters set draft. 3 of each common, 2 of each uncommon, 1 of each rare, few mythics. Includes minor changes for balance reasons to give certain archetypes the tools they need to succeed.
There are a couple interrelated solutions for this:
1. only build a draft sim for a set with an unimpeachable reputation for quality limited, like Rise, Innistrad, Modern Masters. You don't hear about many Zendikar, Gatecrash, Shadowmoor, etc cubes, because these sets were generally considered bad for limited play. Few people want to relive the experience.
2. Manipulating the card pool to smooth the draft experience. In my sims, I always exclude planeswalkers, and I usually keep a weather eye out for cards with bad reputations for wrecking drafts, like drana, kalastria bloodchief or pack rat. I also usually try to identify and cut the lowest rated commons and uncommons. Frequently these are SB-only cards and role players for constructed, like ancient grudge in innistrad ~ not super relevant to limited.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
For a triple Inn, I might go 4c 2 uc 1 rare/mythic