Yep, Phantom Centaur is an awesome card, but like Star Slayer, the pro:color creatures simply led to too many hard feelings. I'd still be playing it otherwise.
I came here to talk up Helm of Possession, but it's already been done. My cube is a tick slower than most, and it's a total bomb there, as well as a fan favorite. Giving every color the opportunity to steal creatures is simply great.
Here's one that's almost never played that has been fantastic for my cube: Blistering Firecat. Now that morph is back, people should give the card another look. Being able to bluff 7 damage makes a lot of morph look more threatening, and it offers red aggro a topdeck that typically hits as hard as Hellrider or Hero of Oxid Ridge, if played as a 4-drop.
And this is not underplayed at all for how strong it is (i.e., it's not played and not strong), but my playgroup has taken a shine to a card I threw in on a whim, and refuses to let me take it out: Praetor's Grasp. It typically grabs a Sword or a broken artifact, sometimes a land if you're mana screwed, sometimes the key combo piece from that Wildfire/Sneak Attack/Kiki-Jiki deck, or whatever. There is almost always a target that makes it worthwhile, though.
We've had Helm in now for two drafts, but it's not seen play in any deck yet. Granted we're playing two man drafts, so that has a lot to do with it. I'm definitely excited to give it a run, though.
I don't know that it would take more than one hand to count the number of times that Polukranos was more than a 5/5. Also, four is a competitive slot and he was often just outclassed and less preferred than other options during deck building.
Yep, Phantom Centaur is an awesome card, but like Star Slayer, the pro:color creatures simply led to too many hard feelings. I'd still be playing it otherwise.
We do run Mind Twist so yeah, when it comes to hard feelings all bets are off :P.
Attrition. It should be a black staple, imho. Replace it Pox or Smallpox or Sinkhole or some other card which has marginal use that has been on people's lists for years that "has always been on the list, and it is on everyone elses', so why remove it?". Give it one serious testing in a deck with tokens, graveyard toolbox guys or any deck that is heavy in black and tell me it shouldn't be a staple. Seriously.
Sadistic Hypnotist. People say black has one good 5-drop creature. I beg to differ.
Avenger of Zendikar. He is one of the biggest green bombs in my cube. Oracle of Mul Daya and Courser of Kruphix are in almost everyones' lists so why not complete the ramp package with the creature whom benefits from landfall the most? He's a beating.
Kessig Wolf Run. Dude, forget Tattermunge Maniac in your Gruul (R/G) section. There are enough 1-drops if you support the red and green aggro package. Step outside of the "9 one drops in each color" dogma and take a venture into the absolute beating that is Kessig Wolf Run. Experience what it is like to Primeval Titan for Wolf Run and then the following turn Alpha-Strike on your mana dork, or whomever for infinity damage.
Glare of Subdual. Okay so you're running the standard "multicolor belongs in multicolor and that's that" philosophy. That leaves you with, what, Dryad Militant and Kitchen Finks as the absolute must include cards? Mirari's Wake is neat with super ramp but not a "must include". Voice of Resurgence is a neat little bear who survives wraths, but now we have Hallowed Spiritkeeper who does the job better, and at the end of the day all that Voice is, is a vanilla creature who makes another vanilla creature. Boring. You know what's better than one Opposition? Two of them.
Keranos, God of Storms. This one you need to actually play and experience. On paper he doesn't seem great but when you're piloting the UR Wildfire deck, or Artifact deck or really any deck that can splash blue or red for him .. holy *****. A free Lightning Bolt every turn is so, so good. And don't even get me started with how this card pairs with Sylvan Library. Forget Izzet Charm or Fire // Ice and put this bro on your list.
Trading Post. How does the jack-of-all-trades card that enables reanimator, control, the artifact deck or just the simple utility added to this one card get overlooked? Don't spew me that "it's fragile!" argument. Everything blows up everything in cube. If someone uses their Manic Vandal to blow up my Trading Post over a Sword, or Mana Rock or Wurmcoil Engine or something - mission accomplished.
Sadistic Hypnotist. People say black has one good 5-drop creature. I beg to differ.
When evaluating creatures, P/T to casting cost is a huge factor.
Avenger of Zendikar. He is one of the biggest green bombs in my cube. Oracle of Mul Daya and Courser of Kruphix are in almost everyones' lists so why not complete the ramp package with the creature whom benefits from landfall the most? He's a beating.
Yep I like this guy too, pretty much a must answer now or die. I just prefer the fatties I already run due to Vindicate/Terminate test.
Glare of Subdual. Okay so you're running the standard "multicolor belongs in multicolor and that's that" philosophy. That leaves you with, what, Dryad Militant and Kitchen Finks as the absolute must include cards? Mirari's Wake is neat with super ramp but not a "must include". Voice of Resurgence is a neat little bear who survives wraths, but now we have Hallowed Spiritkeeper who does the job better, and at the end of the day all that Voice is, is a vanilla creature who makes another vanilla creature. Boring. You know what's better than one Opposition? Two of them.
We play both Shrine of Burning Rage and Avenger of Zendikar from those you mentioned. We call Shrine the red Bitterblossom, since it will kill you by itself if you don't deal with it, we've also had some fun racing the two (Shrine usually wins). Avenger is a definite game ender, and when he can be blinked in any way it's just funny to watch.
Got a Keranos on the way as well, really excited for it. The card just looks like a blast to play with. I had been debating for a long time which of Fire // Ice and Izzet Charm is better, then I randomly saw Keranos get mentioned and he just looks like he blows them both out of the water on the fun scale.
While we're on the subject of red cards, Blast from the Past is one of my favorite ways to support red-based control. It's fine in an aggressive deck, but it's hard to get a grasp on just how good madness + cycling is until you get to 8 mana and can do it with buyback. Unless you have the strictest of objections to silver-bordered cards, you absolutely must run this (it's the only one I make an exception for). It straight-up embarresses Electrolyze and Firebolt.
Sadistic Hypnotist. People say black has one good 5-drop creature. I beg to differ.
When evaluating creatures, P/T to casting cost is a huge factor.
Avenger of Zendikar. He is one of the biggest green bombs in my cube. Oracle of Mul Daya and Courser of Kruphix are in almost everyones' lists so why not complete the ramp package with the creature whom benefits from landfall the most? He's a beating.
Yep I like this guy too, pretty much a must answer now or die. I just prefer the fatties I already run due to Vindicate/Terminate test.
Glare of Subdual. Okay so you're running the standard "multicolor belongs in multicolor and that's that" philosophy. That leaves you with, what, Dryad Militant and Kitchen Finks as the absolute must include cards? Mirari's Wake is neat with super ramp but not a "must include". Voice of Resurgence is a neat little bear who survives wraths, but now we have Hallowed Spiritkeeper who does the job better, and at the end of the day all that Voice is, is a vanilla creature who makes another vanilla creature. Boring. You know what's better than one Opposition? Two of them.
It's a 2/2 for 5, sure. But if I cast the Hypnotist and it baits out a removal spell I feel as though I've already won in value because they just wasted spot removal on a dorky guy that, by himself, is largely unimpressive. But if he is allowed to get online for one moment he has the potential to clear out an opponent's hand - which is huge. I think his power is absolutely absurd with the abundance of tokens and recursion that black supports. He has been an all-star in my cube.
Is Selesnya deep? It's pretty vanilla with mostly creatures that put a token into play. New Ajani and Glare are so much more interesting. Selesnya wants to turn their creatures sideways for damage and Subdual allows them to go unblocked - I'm absolutely down with that. Tapping lands is great, but I'd rather knowingly force the removal spell by tapping down my opponents creatures with a lethal attack than be baited out by one on their terms.
Oh, right - I forgot about Qasali Pridemage. I run it for sure. I have more flexibility because I have Dryad Militant in my White section. But either way, I'm still not sold on Voice of Resurgence being the cat's pajamas.
Voice of resurgence is an amazing card. I don't think glare is even remotely close. WG tends to be midrangy, and tends to be soft to control, and voice shores up that matchup single-handedly. Qasali Pridemage is also miles above glare.
I also think wake is better than glare, but it's closer. I might even rank fleecemane lion above glare. Not being able to tap lands and being multi colored makes for a very unimpressive opposition.
Selesnya is quite deep, IMO. Beyond the usual Militant, Finks, Wake, Pridemage, and Voice there's also a plethora of other options that all decent. Ajani, Fleecemane, Gavony Township, Knight of the Reliquary, Loam Lion, Loxodon Smiter, Sunblade Elf, and of course Glare of Subdual.
Glare is cool, but it's no Opposition. Not tapping lands removes the best reason why the card is bananas. It's also two colors, and in an ultra-competitive guild.
I've have cubed almost every card on FiveFingers list above (some rather extensively and multiple times) and have ultimately cut all of them. Glare included. Haven't played the Hypnotist outside of a couple C/U lists, but even with a deep Pox/Stax/Recursion theme, I have absolutely zero interest in it.
It's a 2/2 for 5, sure. But if I cast the Hypnotist and it baits out a removal spell I feel as though I've already won in value because they just wasted spot removal on a dorky guy that, by himself, is largely unimpressive. But if he is allowed to get online for one moment he has the potential to clear out an opponent's hand - which is huge. I think his power is absolutely absurd with the abundance of tokens and recursion that black supports. He has been an all-star in my cube.
It's hard for me to see the 'value' with losing something I spent 5 mana to cast to pretty much any removal/burn. Have you guys tried out Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief? If I were to run another 5-drop she and Ob Nixilis PW would be at the top of my list.
Oh, right - I forgot about Qasali Pridemage. I run it for sure. I have more flexibility because I have Dryad Militant in my White section. But either way, I'm still not sold on Voice of Resurgence being the cat's pajamas.
Though Pridemage is definitely a fantastic card I ended up cutting him. Both green and white have lots of ways to get rid of artifacts/enchantments already so Voice was my 2-drop of choice (though I recently cut him for Horizon Canopy). I do like Glare so I'm glad it's doing it for you guys.
All the same, the cards I've listed have been incredible in my cube and I couldn't ever see them leaving for a while. The reason I posted them was to get some of you guys to try a new thing, but if you're satisfied with your choices right now then great. But if you're ever looking to just mess around and put something new in I really, really highly suggest the cards above. Cube isn't about netdecking the best 360/450/whatever list. It's about finding old and new cards to toolbox around with and say, 'whoa, this was great!' or 'yikes, that was terrible!'.
Agreed, and your post had some cool cards and cool information. Thanks for posting! It has moved Attrition further up in my on-deck binder; with the addition of Bloodsoaked Champion, it has gained some recent value for sure.
Cube isn't about netdecking the best 360/450/whatever list. It's about finding old and new cards to toolbox around with and say, 'whoa, this was great!' or 'yikes, that was terrible!'.
100% this. I've already tossed in a couple of cards thanks to this awesome thread. I did undervalue Shrine of Burning Rage but will be getting one for my on deck box thanks to your post. I also lurked a few posters' cubes and noticed quite a few Monastery Swiftspears, which I also think I've undervalued.
I've been banging the Kessig Wolf Run drum for a while now, but Tattermunge Maniac wouldn't be my cut for it. For your section, it seems to be glutted with 4-drops so I'd likely remove a Planeswalker if it were mine. KWR turns every idiot into a threat, and eliminates chump-blocking pretty well for your ramp decks. And it's a land that's a spell, so that's pretty awesome too.
Oh, right - I forgot about Qasali Pridemage. I run it for sure. I have more flexibility because I have Dryad Militant in my White section. But either way, I'm still not sold on Voice of Resurgence being the cat's pajamas.
In a vacuum, I think it's a very good, not great, card. But given how much it hoses blue based control decks, and given how much trouble WG midrange (at least in my experience) has with blue-based control decks really jumps up the cards value for me. There's very few cards out of WG I like seeing less across the table from me when I am the blue deck (thrun is one that's worse, but also costs twice as much.) Obviously YMMV, but I've never been unhappy when I have him in a deck. In fact I won our last 8-man with a WG deck in which voice was great every time it hit the table.
Praetor's Grasp. This card doesn't look too exciting or powerful on paper but plays much better irl. All cube decks have some kind of artifacts that are worth stealing. Last night my deck had Black Lotus, Time Walk, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, and Sword of Fire and Ice. My opponent used this card to steal Lotus on turn 2 off a Mox Jet. This is just a cool card that I always hate seeing an opponent play because they get perfect information on your deck and can steal a bomb or just take out a win condition. It is also a secret what they stole because you cannot look at the face down card.
Lust for War and Lashknife Barrier are two cards that have really surprised me in my peasant list at just how powerful they are. Barrier is especially good at being subtle on paper, but really powerful in practice. Plus it draws a card, which feels completely random and tacked on, but I'll take it!
Isn't Lashknife Barrier just marginally better than +0/+1 to all your creatures? There are a lot of things I think I'd rather being doing with three mana, and I think that's why it hasn't seen a lot of play. The cantrip on it is super important, especially because it's another way to combo for +CA with Venser the Sojourner and whatnot.
Isn't Lashknife Barrier just marginally better than +0/+1 to all your creatures? There are a lot of things I think I'd rather being doing with three mana, and I think that's why it hasn't seen a lot of play. The cantrip on it is super important, especially because it's another way to combo for +CA with Venser the Sojourner and whatnot.
It does stop any 1 power deathtouchers as well, which is more than a slight advantage (but is still a small one.) I still don't think it's good enough though. However, I would probably test a 1W enchantment that cantripped and gave all your guys +0/+1, so I don't think it's that far off. But yeah, at 3 mana not testable.
Isn't Lashknife Barrier just marginally better than +0/+1 to all your creatures? There are a lot of things I think I'd rather being doing with three mana, and I think that's why it hasn't seen a lot of play. The cantrip on it is super important, especially because it's another way to combo for +CA with Venser the Sojourner and whatnot.
It does stop any 1 power deathtouchers as well, which is more than a slight advantage (but is still a small one.) I still don't think it's good enough though. However, I would probably test a 1W enchantment that cantripped and gave all your guys +0/+1, so I don't think it's that far off. But yeah, at 3 mana not testable.
Is that more relevant than extra toughness would be against -X/-X effects and -1/-1 counters?
In C/Ubes, the Barrier's wording is particularly effective against Pestilence and Pyrohemia though, which are pretty darn good in those formats.
Polukranos, World Eater has actually been better than expected and really pulled its weight so far.
Jeskai Elder is nice and I would give it a try if I increased/included the UR spells matter theme in my cube.
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I came here to talk up Helm of Possession, but it's already been done. My cube is a tick slower than most, and it's a total bomb there, as well as a fan favorite. Giving every color the opportunity to steal creatures is simply great.
Here's one that's almost never played that has been fantastic for my cube: Blistering Firecat. Now that morph is back, people should give the card another look. Being able to bluff 7 damage makes a lot of morph look more threatening, and it offers red aggro a topdeck that typically hits as hard as Hellrider or Hero of Oxid Ridge, if played as a 4-drop.
And this is not underplayed at all for how strong it is (i.e., it's not played and not strong), but my playgroup has taken a shine to a card I threw in on a whim, and refuses to let me take it out: Praetor's Grasp. It typically grabs a Sword or a broken artifact, sometimes a land if you're mana screwed, sometimes the key combo piece from that Wildfire/Sneak Attack/Kiki-Jiki deck, or whatever. There is almost always a target that makes it worthwhile, though.
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I don't know that it would take more than one hand to count the number of times that Polukranos was more than a 5/5. Also, four is a competitive slot and he was often just outclassed and less preferred than other options during deck building.
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We do run Mind Twist so yeah, when it comes to hard feelings all bets are off :P.
Sadistic Hypnotist. People say black has one good 5-drop creature. I beg to differ.
Shrine of Burning Rage. It is absurd to me that people play cards like Purphoros, God of the Forge or Tempt With Vengeance to support the combo-token strategy but don't include a card that dominated limited and is an absolute house in cube.
Avenger of Zendikar. He is one of the biggest green bombs in my cube. Oracle of Mul Daya and Courser of Kruphix are in almost everyones' lists so why not complete the ramp package with the creature whom benefits from landfall the most? He's a beating.
Kessig Wolf Run. Dude, forget Tattermunge Maniac in your Gruul (R/G) section. There are enough 1-drops if you support the red and green aggro package. Step outside of the "9 one drops in each color" dogma and take a venture into the absolute beating that is Kessig Wolf Run. Experience what it is like to Primeval Titan for Wolf Run and then the following turn Alpha-Strike on your mana dork, or whomever for infinity damage.
Glare of Subdual. Okay so you're running the standard "multicolor belongs in multicolor and that's that" philosophy. That leaves you with, what, Dryad Militant and Kitchen Finks as the absolute must include cards? Mirari's Wake is neat with super ramp but not a "must include". Voice of Resurgence is a neat little bear who survives wraths, but now we have Hallowed Spiritkeeper who does the job better, and at the end of the day all that Voice is, is a vanilla creature who makes another vanilla creature. Boring. You know what's better than one Opposition? Two of them.
Keranos, God of Storms. This one you need to actually play and experience. On paper he doesn't seem great but when you're piloting the UR Wildfire deck, or Artifact deck or really any deck that can splash blue or red for him .. holy *****. A free Lightning Bolt every turn is so, so good. And don't even get me started with how this card pairs with Sylvan Library. Forget Izzet Charm or Fire // Ice and put this bro on your list.
Trading Post. How does the jack-of-all-trades card that enables reanimator, control, the artifact deck or just the simple utility added to this one card get overlooked? Don't spew me that "it's fragile!" argument. Everything blows up everything in cube. If someone uses their Manic Vandal to blow up my Trading Post over a Sword, or Mana Rock or Wurmcoil Engine or something - mission accomplished.
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When evaluating creatures, P/T to casting cost is a huge factor.
Yep I like this guy too, pretty much a must answer now or die. I just prefer the fatties I already run due to Vindicate/Terminate test.
I value Glare quite highly too, but unlike Opposition, it can't tap lands (kind of a big deal). It does have the benefit of being in a guild which naturally pumps guys out, though unfortunately it's also a guild that is quite deep. There was a tad discussion on it here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/card-and-archetype-discussion/193325-the-selesnya-conclave-gw?page=2
Got a Keranos on the way as well, really excited for it. The card just looks like a blast to play with. I had been debating for a long time which of Fire // Ice and Izzet Charm is better, then I randomly saw Keranos get mentioned and he just looks like he blows them both out of the water on the fun scale.
While we're on the subject of red cards, Blast from the Past is one of my favorite ways to support red-based control. It's fine in an aggressive deck, but it's hard to get a grasp on just how good madness + cycling is until you get to 8 mana and can do it with buyback. Unless you have the strictest of objections to silver-bordered cards, you absolutely must run this (it's the only one I make an exception for). It straight-up embarresses Electrolyze and Firebolt.
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On Sadistic Hypnotist:
It's a 2/2 for 5, sure. But if I cast the Hypnotist and it baits out a removal spell I feel as though I've already won in value because they just wasted spot removal on a dorky guy that, by himself, is largely unimpressive. But if he is allowed to get online for one moment he has the potential to clear out an opponent's hand - which is huge. I think his power is absolutely absurd with the abundance of tokens and recursion that black supports. He has been an all-star in my cube.
On Glare of Subdual:
Is Selesnya deep? It's pretty vanilla with mostly creatures that put a token into play. New Ajani and Glare are so much more interesting. Selesnya wants to turn their creatures sideways for damage and Subdual allows them to go unblocked - I'm absolutely down with that. Tapping lands is great, but I'd rather knowingly force the removal spell by tapping down my opponents creatures with a lethal attack than be baited out by one on their terms.
Oh, right - I forgot about Qasali Pridemage. I run it for sure. I have more flexibility because I have Dryad Militant in my White section. But either way, I'm still not sold on Voice of Resurgence being the cat's pajamas.
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I also think wake is better than glare, but it's closer. I might even rank fleecemane lion above glare. Not being able to tap lands and being multi colored makes for a very unimpressive opposition.
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I've have cubed almost every card on FiveFingers list above (some rather extensively and multiple times) and have ultimately cut all of them. Glare included. Haven't played the Hypnotist outside of a couple C/U lists, but even with a deep Pox/Stax/Recursion theme, I have absolutely zero interest in it.
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It's hard for me to see the 'value' with losing something I spent 5 mana to cast to pretty much any removal/burn. Have you guys tried out Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief? If I were to run another 5-drop she and Ob Nixilis PW would be at the top of my list.
Though Pridemage is definitely a fantastic card I ended up cutting him. Both green and white have lots of ways to get rid of artifacts/enchantments already so Voice was my 2-drop of choice (though I recently cut him for Horizon Canopy). I do like Glare so I'm glad it's doing it for you guys.
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100% this. I've already tossed in a couple of cards thanks to this awesome thread. I did undervalue Shrine of Burning Rage but will be getting one for my on deck box thanks to your post. I also lurked a few posters' cubes and noticed quite a few Monastery Swiftspears, which I also think I've undervalued.
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In a vacuum, I think it's a very good, not great, card. But given how much it hoses blue based control decks, and given how much trouble WG midrange (at least in my experience) has with blue-based control decks really jumps up the cards value for me. There's very few cards out of WG I like seeing less across the table from me when I am the blue deck (thrun is one that's worse, but also costs twice as much.) Obviously YMMV, but I've never been unhappy when I have him in a deck. In fact I won our last 8-man with a WG deck in which voice was great every time it hit the table.
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It does stop any 1 power deathtouchers as well, which is more than a slight advantage (but is still a small one.) I still don't think it's good enough though. However, I would probably test a 1W enchantment that cantripped and gave all your guys +0/+1, so I don't think it's that far off. But yeah, at 3 mana not testable.
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Is that more relevant than extra toughness would be against -X/-X effects and -1/-1 counters?
In C/Ubes, the Barrier's wording is particularly effective against Pestilence and Pyrohemia though, which are pretty darn good in those formats.
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