Hey MTGS cube community. I've been participating in these forums for the better part of a decade and have had fruitful and meaningful conversations with many of you during this time. My cube design has been highly influenced by the example and input of users here, like many of us my initial cube build was almost a carbon copy of wtwlf123's (at the time) 450 cube, thought I kept mine unpowered. I've since upped my size to 540 and become more exploratory and experimental in my inclusions.
Cube is my single favorite way to experience MtG and, like many of you, I have spent more time over the years theorizing, tinkering with, and trying to optimize my cube then actually playing it. Some of us here have the luxury of regular playgroups or even online drafts but I don't have the time to play that often or a playgroup large enough to fill out a full pod, except on rare occasions. Usually I'm playing cube with one or three other players, and at best I get to cube once a month. Over the past couple years of drafting my cube I've become dissatisfied with some elements of my design:
1) Power Differential
I've always excluded the P9 from my cube as well as other fast mana and crazy cards like Library of Alexandria, but I've included cards like Tinker, Natural Order, and Channel. As mega-fatties have gotten better over the years decks built around these effects were far and away the most powerful strategy in my environment. As an example, in a recent cube draft my opponent had crafted a fairly ideal Selesnya midrange deck, with mana rocks and a perfect curve. It folded to my Tinker/Reanimator deck every game. So much so that it felt like I was playing solitaire.It wasn't that fun. I've come to believe that some of these cheat effects are too far above the power curve to exist in an unpowered cube without unbalancing the environement.
2) Over Saturation of "Archetype" Cards
My cube, like many here, had evolved into what I've thought of as a rich palate of diverse and interesting archetypes that are more niche than the main theatres of Aggro/Midrange/Control. Tokens matter, spells matter, aristocrats, Wildfire/Upheaval, humans tribal, ect. These decks were powerful and a lot of fun when they came together but the hit rate was not as high as I'd like. If you can pull a Purphuros and a Secure the Wastes in pack one, great, but if you see them in pack three they are more than likely dead picks. If you grabbed a bunch of mana rocks hoping to go Wildfire/Upheaval but never saw these key pieces in the draft you ended up playing a bad control or ramp deck. Many of these more narrow archetypes sounded more fun in theory then they were in practice for my and my group.
3) Diluted Green - Lack of Midrange
Green had pretty much become a support color in my cube. Be it reanimator support, ramp support, aggro support, or combo support. It was rare that a base green deck was able to perform. This is because I was trying to push green in directions that were not in line with the color's strengths. What is green good at? Smashing face with beefy and hard to kill creatures, duh. In other words, midrange. I realized when looking through my green section that the vast majority of my three and four cost creatures were utility guys or archetype support. Ramunap Excavator, Oracle of Mul Daya, and Yavimaya Elder are cool cards, but they can't hold the front against aggro or put a clock on control decks. Green midrange was pretty much non-existent in my environment and, as a result, the overall ability of midrange to win games in my cube suffered. Green is the best color for midrange. Green is to midrange what blue is to control.
4) Not Enough Removal
Often times decks from my cube weren't able to find enough removal in draft to function optimally. Control decks were trying to hack it with one or two Wraths, as opposed to 3-5, and aggro decks often didn't have enough ways to clear blockers. I've noticed a general aversion to running too much removal in the broader cube community and that redundant removal effects can lead to "boring" gameplay. I've found the opposite to be true in my cube experience. Creature stalemates or getting stonewalled by a 4/4 because you can't kill it is pretty boring IMHO. Interaction is not.
5) Sacred Cows
"Sacred Cow" is a hot button phrase that seems designed to inflame a response from people that hold opposing viewpoints, and that's not what I'm trying to do. In my cube there were a lot of holdovers from yesteryear that I believe have been outclassed long since, but I hadn't cut them yet. Cards like Master of the Wild Hunt, Oracle of Mul Daya, Primeval Titan, Cultivate/Kodama's ReachSpectral Procession, Aetherling, Ratchet Bomb, Muldrifter, Pack Rat , or Baneslayer Angel. Mostly I was just rolling with conventional cube wisdom by keeping these in and hadn't really done much critical analysis of my own or ever considered them candidates for the chopping block. Some of them were fine in archetype decks but lackluster in more general builds. Other's were just inefficient.
Before I get into the specific changes I made in my cube, I need to give credit to Usman, SirFunchalot, buildingadeck, and Zolthux who were instrumental helping me identify under-performers and replacements. In the cube community we all stand on the shoulders of other's analysis and these guys have done loads of testing and analysis. Check out SirFunchalot's Discord server https://discord.gg/m4cuEdr for some excellent cube conversation and analysis.
THE CHANGES:
I wont go over every card as I've made over 150 changes, but I'll try and sketch out the general outline and identify some particularly noteworthy cards.
-I drastically cut back on the amount and quality of my colorless ramp. No more Talismans or Signets. I want to protect green's identity as the color that ramps and green now represents a full two-thirds of the ramp effects in my cube. I did include 10-11 mana rocks as control needs some amount of ramp, but they typically come into play tapped and don't fix multiple colors. Cutting back on ramp severely reduced the viability of Wildfire/Upheaval decks, so those cards had to go.
-Increased the amount of cantrips in blue and other colors (where possible). Cantrips are essential to contro's game plan and make literally any deck that can cast them run more smoothly. Every respectable blue one drop cantrip (a la Sleight of Hand and Opt) as well as several two CMC blue cantrips like Telling Time and Shimmer of Possibility. Black got a couple cheap draw spells in Night's Whisper and Ransack the Lab, and green even got some action with Winding Way and Oath of Nissa. Even tier two cheap draw effects are good enough.
-Increased the amount of interaction across the board. White got more O-rings and cheap removal, blue got more counters, black got more Doom Blade variants, and red got more burn.
-I threw caution to the wind with regard to planeswalker caps. My white section went from 5 to 9 walkers, blue from 4 to 8, black (poor black) only has 4 good ones so no change there, red went from 4 to 6 and green went from 4 to 8. I also tossed in a bunch of multicolor walkers. Previously I had only considered walkers in competition with other walkers (i.e. not including Gideon Blackblade because I already had a 3 cmc Gideon) but I started looking at walkers more broadly. Walkers add a great deal of strategic depth to gameplay and I'd be happy to see every deck come to the table with 3+ walkers. Of particular note here is the inclusion of multiple Ajani's. Most Ajani walkers serve as repeatable anthems that can help aggro in the late game or speed up the clock of a midrange deck which is particularly helpful against control. We have a great deal more PW removal then we used to and creatures have also gotten more efficient which both serve to keep walkers in check.
-Reduced the overall curve of my cube. Cutting all the mana rocks reduced the viability of casting 8+ mana spells so top end finishers that can't be cheated into play easily like Ugin, the Spirit Dragon had to go. Cutting Ugin for Trusty Machete felt super weird
So to sum it all up, I cut a bunch of narrow cards and underperformers, added a bunch of removal and cheap card advantage, nearly doubled my planeswalker count, and slashed my curve. Cube is a lot of things to a lot of people. Some people like their cubes to be a collection of the most powerful cards ever printed and prioritize that over balance. Some people like to to have intricate archetypes with powerful synergy cards. My goal is pretty simple, I just want to have the tightest and most balanced draft and gameplay experience I can. Powerful cards are great and synergy is a built in part of the game but in my cube I want gameplay to reign king. My choices reflect my own particular environment and small playgroup and certainly wont be right for everyone. I hope at the very least this post raises some questions and helps you think critically about your own cube and how to make it the best it can possibly be for you and your playgroup.
I really like want you have done here. I've also tried cutting the most powerful stuff and felt like I ended with a better limited experience. I however added more archetype support, but I can definitely see your point about having more cards that goes in more lists. My list is not completely up to date: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/71500
I definitely agree with the sentiment expressed here.
I agree about having a lot of removal. The games end up pretty interactive.
Even Pauper cubes are better without bombs. I feel like a lot of cards get put into cubes because they're powerful and are fun to play without any consideration for how fun they are to play against. It's the Bogles player mentality at work.
So what happens is that instead of having a fun limited environment you have a bunch of solitaire decks with only an illusion of a game going on.
I'm a big proponent of listening to no one and building the cube you want to build. I'm of the opinion that anything that Magic players hate is good for the game, therefore Kjeldoran Skycaptain and Dash Hopes are good cube cards.
With the London Mulligan it's probably a legitimate strategy to mull to 1 to find Tinker => Blightsteel and hope to draw into lands. Hell, run 38 lands so you can't fail. If they didn't draft countermagic you're good. This type of degeneracy isn't good for the game.
Reanimator, Tinker, and to a lesser extent Natural Order can be particularly oppressive depending on what targets you allow for them. There are a couple fatties in particular I have chosen not to include due to how oppressive they are with these archetypes. One is Inkwell Leviathan and the other is Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. There are still plenty of disgusting targets Creature quality and the diversity of large threats is immensely better then it was when these spells were first printed. Still, I think your lack of removal problem goes hand in hand with this issue. Many of the top reanimator targets still just die to good removal. My advice here is to try to minimize the large threats that can't be responded to with removal and these archetypes will still win quite a bit, but not so much so that a great aggro/midrange deck doesn't have a chance.
Maybe this is just a personal experience but I only sometimes see the Upheaval.dec come together (but it has been very strong when it does) and it is even more rare that the Wildfire.dec comes together (and it's much less strong when it does) and there are certain other archetypes that are strongly hyped here but were completely useless in my cube - Lands Matter is a big one. Life from the Loam, Crucible of Worlds, Ramunap Excavator, and even the new Wrenn and Six = Durdle.dec. Also think Yavimaya Elder is durdly, but Oracle of Mul Daya has been a strong ramp card/ way to get through my library (my only peeve with it is I don't like revealing my library top card, I think that is a bigger drawback than people give it credit for).
I don't agree on Purphoros. If you're in a red deck that generates creatures (as so many of the red three drops in particular do, but also many other cards). This card is still wonderful. You don't need a mass token generating spell to run Purphoros (though it will certainly help). I am also trying to increase the amount of wraths available. In particular I'd like to see some better non-White/Black "Wrath" like effects in the vein of Hour of Devastation...might actually consider adding that one now that I think about it. I agree with all of your other niche-archetype swaps (Squee, Reveillark, Bombardment, Loam). I run none of those.
Of the Sacred Cows listed I can only really concur with Spectral Procession and Ratchet Bomb. Master of the Wild Hunt is great incremental advantage and removal in one card. Already discussed Oracle, Primeval Titan being able to get any land is important-without that caveat it probably wouldn't get there. Cultivate and Kodama's Reach aren't exciting, but they do provide the ramp/fixing at a key time since a lot of green's strength is in its 5 drop creatures. Aetherling is borderline, but not a problematic cut in my eyes. Mulldrifter, Pack Rat, and Lyra Dawnbringer (slight upgrade over BSA) all continue to do some pretty strong work in games I have played.
Think it is important to consider that Talismans don't take green's identity away when green can run the same talismans and put you at 5 mana on turn 2. Mox, Land, Talisman, Elf. Turn 2 land, 5 drop. In other words it might provide a similar function, but Green still does ramp/fixing better. I'm not sure I like any of the green inclusions all that much. Tireless Tracker and Jadelight Ranger are among my favorite beefy green 3cc threats. They give a nice combination of size and value. I also love Night's Whisper. I don't think I'm too keen on any of the other options though.
PW's make midrange better and I think my previous caps were too limiting, but I'm pretty happy with 3-4 PW tops per color/colorless and 1-2 per guild. More than that and I find myself drafting packs with 5+ PW's and while I appreciate increased choices and more diverse gameplay that PW's present, I still think they shouldn't appear more than 1-2 per pack on average. Personal preference.
Thanks for the responses everyone. BlackWaltz3, thanks for the detailed thoughts and feedback.
On the topic of reanimation and cheat strategies, there are only a couple ways to adjust the powerlevel. Water down your fatties or water down your cheat effects. I'm trying to water down the cheat effects but keep the fatties top tier. There are an abundance of tier 2 cheat effects available in cube that are only a turn or two slower than top tier stuff. If this doesn't work for me I may add back in Tinker and friends and cut the most oppressive cheat targets.
The main reason I had to cut Upheaval/Wildfire is because I dramatically scaled back on my mana rocks. The decks can't really function without like 4+ rocks and because I only run 11 in my 540, leaving these effects in my cube would have created draft traps. They are super strong and awesome cards, but I've been playing with them for like a decade so I'm fine with giving them some time on the bench.
I get the PW preference. I feel like I've been too conservative with them and in moving away from my caps it's entirely possible I've swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction. Time will tell, but I am excited for this environment. I'm LOVING these new walker designs they've been putting out the last couple sets.
I'll peep your cube. Do you have a list thread?
Totally agree with your evaluation of Elder and Oracle. I think I'm still running Elder but he's definitely not uncuttable. Oracle can stay out of my cube for all time.
Master of the Wild Hunt is glacially slow and dies to just about every removal spell in the cube. At 4 mana I think I can do better. I'd rather just have a good at 4 mana that is guaranteed to generate at least some value (Oh, hello Vivien Arkbow Ranger!). I think Prime Time is overrated personally. Green definitely doesn't have a lot going for it in the 6 drop department, but as a non-resilient threat it's just not good enough for the cost. Getty any land is sweet for sure, but I think it sounds better in theory than it works in practice. I've pushed my green section hard in the direction of midrange aggression though, so I think I'd have less use than most for the extra land drops. I do sincerely believe that Honored Hydra will play better than Prime Time most of the time in my cube. The most important part of Prime Time is the body, and Hydra draws you another, cheaper version of itself when it dies. Not to mention being playable on turn 3-4 out of the yard.
Purphorous is a powerful effect when it works but it does literal zero on his own. He great with Rabblemasters and stuff, but thats just the point. I don't think a 4 mana enchantment that requires a specific set of other cards to work is what my cube is looking for currently. I'm not saying its a bad card. But he does exemplify the types of cards I'm trying to move away from currently.
You make good arguments for Kreach and Cultivate. I cut them for 2 mana rampant growth effects to bring down my green curve, but I'm open to slotting them back in if I miss them.
I cut back on my mana rocks to keep midrange competetive against control. Ramping into a turn 3 wrath is just a stronger play than ramping into a turn 3 beater. I also don't run power, so the example you gave with a crazy turn 1 Mox hand doesn't apply to my environment.
I wish there was more sweet spot reanimator spells. Something less disgusting than Reanimate or Animate Dead, but not as slow as Breath of Life or the like. I think 3cc is a really great spot for quality reanimation spells that are powerful but balanced in a cube envirionment.
Something like: Blood Necromancy2B
Sorcery (R)
Return target creature from your graveyard to the battlefield. You lose life equal to half of its converted mana cost rounded up.
I posted my cube list at the end of my last post. I'm still making some changes (mainly to the cards highlighted in red).
Needing creatures isn't a high bar to clear. I think Purphoros is an easy build around that can range from decent to insane. 2 damage per creature is disgusting and occasionally the pump ability is relevant too. I have won too many games off of this card to concede the point on this one.
The Mox I was referring too is Mox Diamond. I also don't run power.
I manage a 720 cube for a long time, and I have play tested some of what you theorycraft here. I think you will find my input valuable.
I agree that too many archetype cards bloats the cube and lower the overall enjoyment. I also agree that planeswalkers generate fun game play and there is no reason to fear them. I think some of the best games are the one where there is a back and forth between creatures and planeswalkers at each side of the table. Planeswalkers directly increase the significance of creatures.
I also generally agree that removals create interactive games. However, I'd advise specifically against too many black 2 mana spot removals. There are plenty that are good enough, so I've tried to play 5 of them at some point at 720. That was too many. As a drafter playing black, you nearly always want the first, sometimes want the second and in my experience never want the third. A mix of cheap conditional removals, expensive versatile removal and card advanatge removals higher up the curve is a much better mix for deckbuilding and dynamic play in my experience.
This advice does not hold for Oblivion Ring effects in my experience. They are much less often dead cards, so they are more tolerable in higher numbers. They are also more likely to be splashed or brought in from the sideboard. There is still a limit on how many does a deck want, and they all share the same weaknesses, but the threshold is higher.
Expensive board wipes are not really worth the effort in my experience. They read okay, but you nearly always just prefer them to be cheaper without the extra fluff. Again, there is a limit real estate I will dedicate in my deck for mass removals. 2-3 is a good number. I'd never play more than three mass removals main deck, that's just asking to have dead cards.
One mana blue cantrips are excellent and represent a core effect of the color, like mana elves do for green. The two mana versions are significantly weaker and less desirable, just like the two mana mana dorks. May I suggest Portent? It is a weaker Ponder on yourself but can fateseal late game.
I like how Pack Rat creates its own sort of minigame and adds a new mode of operation for deck for a minimal cost of just including a single card.
Hey Metamind, thanks for the response and the feedback.
I also generally agree that removals create interactive games. However, I'd advise specifically against too many black 2 mana spot removals. There are plenty that are good enough, so I've tried to play 5 of them at some point at 720. That was too many. As a drafter playing black, you nearly always want the first, sometimes want the second and in my experience never want the third. A mix of cheap conditional removals, expensive versatile removal and card advanatge removals higher up the curve is a much better mix for deckbuilding and dynamic play in my experience.
I don't think a glut of removal spells at 2 mana is really an issue honestly. For my black Doom Blades I'm simply looking for the most effecient and effective kill spells available in the color. You don't curve out with removal. Every single black deck (aggro/midrange/control/combo) will want a couple of these so having enough in the draft is important. What kind of removal are you thinking of when you talk about more expensive/versatile spells?
Can't really argue with you on Pack Rat. It does what it does and it does it well. It may eventually come back into my list.
Expensive board wipes are not really worth the effort in my experience. They read okay, but you nearly always just prefer them to be cheaper without the extra fluff. Again, there is a limit real estate I will dedicate in my deck for mass removals. 2-3 is a good number. I'd never play more than three mass removals main deck, that's just asking to have dead cards.
If there were enough </= 4 mana sweepers I wouldn't play any that cost 5, but alas, we don't have enough yet for my cube size. I go so far as to play [/card]Solar Blaze[/card] in my boros section. Lol.
One mana blue cantrips are excellent and represent a core effect of the color, like mana elves do for green. The two mana versions are significantly weaker and less desirable, just like the two mana mana dorks. May I suggest Portent? It is a weaker Ponder on yourself but can fateseal late game.
While 1 CMC cantrips and mana dorks are way more desirable then 2cmc versions of similar effects, the two CMC versions are far from unplayable. It's a question of effect density in the draft environment IMO. Anticipate/Telling Time/Shimmer of Possibility see play in all the same decks that want to run Impulse. They aren't quite as good as Impulse but they are perfectly acceptable IMO. Portent seems ok, but I think I'd run Omen first honestly.
I don't think a glut of removal spells at 2 mana is really an issue honestly. For my black Doom Blades I'm simply looking for the most effecient and effective kill spells available in the color. You don't curve out with removal. Every single black deck (aggro/midrange/control/combo) will want a couple of these so having enough in the draft is important. What kind of removal are you thinking of when you talk about more expensive/versatile spells?
Mana cost is relevant with spells too. By having a variety of costs, I can better utilize my mana to the fullest every turn. I can also cover more weaknesses, by having some expensive but versatile removals, and some cheaper removals for greater tempo opportunities. Never // Return, Vraska's Contempt and Profane Command are examples of versatile answers in black that are more expensive.
If there were enough </= 4 mana sweepers I wouldn't play any that cost 5, but alas, we don't have enough yet for my cube size. I go so far as to play [/card]Solar Blaze[/card] in my boros section. Lol.
I'll go with an analogy. Let's say you want to get drinking drinking water. You know wells are a good solution, so you want to dig a hole in the ground. All you have is a hammer. You don't use a hammer to dig a hole in the ground just because you have no shovel. At some point you've got to think, maybe there is a way to solve my problem without digging a hole in the ground. Collect rainwater maybe, or move close to a river.
Five mana mass removals are fundamentally different. They are not just slightly worse, they are a league or two behind, the hammer to the shovel. Having a quota for mass removals, doesn't mean you have to fill it at all costs. Mass removals are not a goal unto themselves, they are there to solve metagame problems. Don't be fixated on digging a well when you only have a hammer. Don't be a slave to your system.
While 1 CMC cantrips and mana dorks are way more desirable then 2cmc versions of similar effects, the two CMC versions are far from unplayable. It's a question of effect density in the draft environment IMO. Anticipate/Telling Time/Shimmer of Possibility see play in all the same decks that want to run Impulse. They aren't quite as good as Impulse but they are perfectly acceptable IMO. Portent seems ok, but I think I'd run Omen first honestly.
Few decks want to run Impulse over a one mana cantrip though. 90%+ of those that do, care about the instant speed. Even less of those decks will want to run a second two mana version over an additional one mana version. A plethora of one mana cantrips is a basis for the prowess/spells matters archetype (as can also be seen in constructed). The two mana versions do not chain nearly as well for your juicy triggers or greater dig power, you are far less likely to be able to afford to cast them in multiples in a tight game and they cannot be played on turn one (which is often a barren spot in blue based decks).
Re: Removal spells - You make a good point, and I do run a few more expensive removal spells on up the curve, but I still contend that I'm primarily looking for the most efficient way to kill the most things in my black removal. Vraska's Contempt is a great kill spell but it's a few ticks down the list for me.
Re: Sweepers - no slavery here man. I'm not picking 5 mana sweepers for the sake of having 5 mana sweepers. I run 2 (3 if you count Living Death) 5 mana sweepers because I've plumbed the depth of available 4 mana sweepers in that color and control needs the support. I think we might be talking past each other on this point. Sweepers are a necessary tool to provide for controlling decks. At my cube size I believe in order to meet that goal I need X sweepers in white and because of the lack of options, I have to run a couple tier 2 options. A 5 mana sweeper is still better than no sweeper if you are the control deck.
Re: Cantrips - Prowess/Spells Matter are not archetypes or decks I actively support. I agree, in most blue decks I'd rather run Ponder than Impulse, but if I can't get Ponder I'd rather run Impulse than a random other card and if I can't get Impulse I'd happily run Telling Time. Sure Ponder > Impulse > Telling Time, but they are all completely cubable. Blue cantrips are like mana dorks for green decks. Most green decks want 4-6 ramp sources and if they can't get them all at one mana they will happily play two mana versions. I happily and successfully run multiple two mana cantrips in all flavors of blue decks.
So I’ve been continuing along this path of balancing and tightening my cube and have decided to cut combo-cheat entirely from my list. Without super ramp in green and a bunch of mana rocks my fatty targets were literally uncastable and only viable in reanimate and sneak/show decks. This left about 20% of my cube that was only viable in one archetype between all the fatties, discard outlets, and reanimate/cheat spells. My cube is now entirely aggro/midrange/control with no synergy archetypes or combo decks.
For what it's worth, I've always wanted to do something similar to what you are doing in your cube, but received too much negative feedback from my playgroup when I proposed the idea. I enjoy the modern cube on MTGO more than the vintage cube for example.
Quite a few people in my group enjoy trying to draft combos and "do the most powerful thing I can" and are less concerned bout great game play.
They play cube as an escape from competitive magic, not as an extension.
I think traditional powered cubes have too many archetypes that are focused on going way over-the-top and comboing. Gameplay with cheat decks and ramp deck mirror matches can be a bit stale for me.
I enjoy fair deck interaction more than any form of magic and a bit too much of traditional vintage cube gameplay can feel like two ships passing in the night.
If you cut a lot of archetypes and narrower interaction, don't you end up with more good stuff midrange decks?
More creature stand offs and a lot more generic decks?
Cube is my single favorite way to experience MtG and, like many of you, I have spent more time over the years theorizing, tinkering with, and trying to optimize my cube then actually playing it. Some of us here have the luxury of regular playgroups or even online drafts but I don't have the time to play that often or a playgroup large enough to fill out a full pod, except on rare occasions. Usually I'm playing cube with one or three other players, and at best I get to cube once a month. Over the past couple years of drafting my cube I've become dissatisfied with some elements of my design:
1) Power Differential
I've always excluded the P9 from my cube as well as other fast mana and crazy cards like Library of Alexandria, but I've included cards like Tinker, Natural Order, and Channel. As mega-fatties have gotten better over the years decks built around these effects were far and away the most powerful strategy in my environment. As an example, in a recent cube draft my opponent had crafted a fairly ideal Selesnya midrange deck, with mana rocks and a perfect curve. It folded to my Tinker/Reanimator deck every game. So much so that it felt like I was playing solitaire.It wasn't that fun. I've come to believe that some of these cheat effects are too far above the power curve to exist in an unpowered cube without unbalancing the environement.
2) Over Saturation of "Archetype" Cards
My cube, like many here, had evolved into what I've thought of as a rich palate of diverse and interesting archetypes that are more niche than the main theatres of Aggro/Midrange/Control. Tokens matter, spells matter, aristocrats, Wildfire/Upheaval, humans tribal, ect. These decks were powerful and a lot of fun when they came together but the hit rate was not as high as I'd like. If you can pull a Purphuros and a Secure the Wastes in pack one, great, but if you see them in pack three they are more than likely dead picks. If you grabbed a bunch of mana rocks hoping to go Wildfire/Upheaval but never saw these key pieces in the draft you ended up playing a bad control or ramp deck. Many of these more narrow archetypes sounded more fun in theory then they were in practice for my and my group.
3) Diluted Green - Lack of Midrange
Green had pretty much become a support color in my cube. Be it reanimator support, ramp support, aggro support, or combo support. It was rare that a base green deck was able to perform. This is because I was trying to push green in directions that were not in line with the color's strengths. What is green good at? Smashing face with beefy and hard to kill creatures, duh. In other words, midrange. I realized when looking through my green section that the vast majority of my three and four cost creatures were utility guys or archetype support. Ramunap Excavator, Oracle of Mul Daya, and Yavimaya Elder are cool cards, but they can't hold the front against aggro or put a clock on control decks. Green midrange was pretty much non-existent in my environment and, as a result, the overall ability of midrange to win games in my cube suffered. Green is the best color for midrange. Green is to midrange what blue is to control.
4) Not Enough Removal
Often times decks from my cube weren't able to find enough removal in draft to function optimally. Control decks were trying to hack it with one or two Wraths, as opposed to 3-5, and aggro decks often didn't have enough ways to clear blockers. I've noticed a general aversion to running too much removal in the broader cube community and that redundant removal effects can lead to "boring" gameplay. I've found the opposite to be true in my cube experience. Creature stalemates or getting stonewalled by a 4/4 because you can't kill it is pretty boring IMHO. Interaction is not.
5) Sacred Cows
"Sacred Cow" is a hot button phrase that seems designed to inflame a response from people that hold opposing viewpoints, and that's not what I'm trying to do. In my cube there were a lot of holdovers from yesteryear that I believe have been outclassed long since, but I hadn't cut them yet. Cards like Master of the Wild Hunt, Oracle of Mul Daya, Primeval Titan, Cultivate/Kodama's Reach Spectral Procession, Aetherling, Ratchet Bomb, Muldrifter, Pack Rat , or Baneslayer Angel. Mostly I was just rolling with conventional cube wisdom by keeping these in and hadn't really done much critical analysis of my own or ever considered them candidates for the chopping block. Some of them were fine in archetype decks but lackluster in more general builds. Other's were just inefficient.
Before I get into the specific changes I made in my cube, I need to give credit to Usman, SirFunchalot, buildingadeck, and Zolthux who were instrumental helping me identify under-performers and replacements. In the cube community we all stand on the shoulders of other's analysis and these guys have done loads of testing and analysis. Check out SirFunchalot's Discord server https://discord.gg/m4cuEdr for some excellent cube conversation and analysis.
THE CHANGES:
I wont go over every card as I've made over 150 changes, but I'll try and sketch out the general outline and identify some particularly noteworthy cards.
-Cards that only work or are at their ceiling only in specific niche archetypes got cut. Gone are specific token/aristocrats support cards. Gone is the artifact.dec. Purphuros, God of the Forge, Goblin Bombardment, Life from the Loam, Squee, Goblin Nabob, Reveillark ect.
-The top end of my cheat effects were too strong for the rest of my unpowered environment and got cut. This includes Tinker, Natural Order, Channel, Animate Dead, and Reanimate. I wanted to keep combo as a viable archetype so I added some tier 2 support across all five colors like Volrath's Shapeshifter in blue, Breath of Life and Karmic Guide in white, Champion of Rhonas in green, and Quicksilver Amulet/Thran Temporal Gateway in colorless. A turn 3-4 Griselbrand will still happen and still win games, but it will be a bit harder to make it happen and it won't be as oppressive or consistent.
-I drastically cut back on the amount and quality of my colorless ramp. No more Talismans or Signets. I want to protect green's identity as the color that ramps and green now represents a full two-thirds of the ramp effects in my cube. I did include 10-11 mana rocks as control needs some amount of ramp, but they typically come into play tapped and don't fix multiple colors. Cutting back on ramp severely reduced the viability of Wildfire/Upheaval decks, so those cards had to go.
-I cut all green aggro support and many of the flimsier mid-curve green utility creatures. Instead I added aggressively costed and/or hard to kill creatures like Wolfir Avenger, Troll Ascetic, Honored Hydra, Call of the Herd, and Beast Attack.
-Increased the amount of cantrips in blue and other colors (where possible). Cantrips are essential to contro's game plan and make literally any deck that can cast them run more smoothly. Every respectable blue one drop cantrip (a la Sleight of Hand and Opt) as well as several two CMC blue cantrips like Telling Time and Shimmer of Possibility. Black got a couple cheap draw spells in Night's Whisper and Ransack the Lab, and green even got some action with Winding Way and Oath of Nissa. Even tier two cheap draw effects are good enough.
-Increased the amount of interaction across the board. White got more O-rings and cheap removal, blue got more counters, black got more Doom Blade variants, and red got more burn.
-Added a few more wrath effects like Hollowed Burial and Anger of the God's to bolster control.
-I threw caution to the wind with regard to planeswalker caps. My white section went from 5 to 9 walkers, blue from 4 to 8, black (poor black) only has 4 good ones so no change there, red went from 4 to 6 and green went from 4 to 8. I also tossed in a bunch of multicolor walkers. Previously I had only considered walkers in competition with other walkers (i.e. not including Gideon Blackblade because I already had a 3 cmc Gideon) but I started looking at walkers more broadly. Walkers add a great deal of strategic depth to gameplay and I'd be happy to see every deck come to the table with 3+ walkers. Of particular note here is the inclusion of multiple Ajani's. Most Ajani walkers serve as repeatable anthems that can help aggro in the late game or speed up the clock of a midrange deck which is particularly helpful against control. We have a great deal more PW removal then we used to and creatures have also gotten more efficient which both serve to keep walkers in check.
-Reduced the overall curve of my cube. Cutting all the mana rocks reduced the viability of casting 8+ mana spells so top end finishers that can't be cheated into play easily like Ugin, the Spirit Dragon had to go. Cutting Ugin for Trusty Machete felt super weird
So to sum it all up, I cut a bunch of narrow cards and underperformers, added a bunch of removal and cheap card advantage, nearly doubled my planeswalker count, and slashed my curve. Cube is a lot of things to a lot of people. Some people like their cubes to be a collection of the most powerful cards ever printed and prioritize that over balance. Some people like to to have intricate archetypes with powerful synergy cards. My goal is pretty simple, I just want to have the tightest and most balanced draft and gameplay experience I can. Powerful cards are great and synergy is a built in part of the game but in my cube I want gameplay to reign king. My choices reflect my own particular environment and small playgroup and certainly wont be right for everyone. I hope at the very least this post raises some questions and helps you think critically about your own cube and how to make it the best it can possibly be for you and your playgroup.
Here is a link to my updated list. http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/3765
Check it out and let me know what you think! Any cards seem wildly out of place? Anything I'm not including that I absolutely should be?
I agree about having a lot of removal. The games end up pretty interactive.
Even Pauper cubes are better without bombs. I feel like a lot of cards get put into cubes because they're powerful and are fun to play without any consideration for how fun they are to play against. It's the Bogles player mentality at work.
So what happens is that instead of having a fun limited environment you have a bunch of solitaire decks with only an illusion of a game going on.
I'm a big proponent of listening to no one and building the cube you want to build. I'm of the opinion that anything that Magic players hate is good for the game, therefore Kjeldoran Skycaptain and Dash Hopes are good cube cards.
With the London Mulligan it's probably a legitimate strategy to mull to 1 to find Tinker => Blightsteel and hope to draw into lands. Hell, run 38 lands so you can't fail. If they didn't draft countermagic you're good. This type of degeneracy isn't good for the game.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Maybe this is just a personal experience but I only sometimes see the Upheaval.dec come together (but it has been very strong when it does) and it is even more rare that the Wildfire.dec comes together (and it's much less strong when it does) and there are certain other archetypes that are strongly hyped here but were completely useless in my cube - Lands Matter is a big one. Life from the Loam, Crucible of Worlds, Ramunap Excavator, and even the new Wrenn and Six = Durdle.dec. Also think Yavimaya Elder is durdly, but Oracle of Mul Daya has been a strong ramp card/ way to get through my library (my only peeve with it is I don't like revealing my library top card, I think that is a bigger drawback than people give it credit for).
I don't agree on Purphoros. If you're in a red deck that generates creatures (as so many of the red three drops in particular do, but also many other cards). This card is still wonderful. You don't need a mass token generating spell to run Purphoros (though it will certainly help). I am also trying to increase the amount of wraths available. In particular I'd like to see some better non-White/Black "Wrath" like effects in the vein of Hour of Devastation...might actually consider adding that one now that I think about it. I agree with all of your other niche-archetype swaps (Squee, Reveillark, Bombardment, Loam). I run none of those.
Of the Sacred Cows listed I can only really concur with Spectral Procession and Ratchet Bomb. Master of the Wild Hunt is great incremental advantage and removal in one card. Already discussed Oracle, Primeval Titan being able to get any land is important-without that caveat it probably wouldn't get there. Cultivate and Kodama's Reach aren't exciting, but they do provide the ramp/fixing at a key time since a lot of green's strength is in its 5 drop creatures. Aetherling is borderline, but not a problematic cut in my eyes. Mulldrifter, Pack Rat, and Lyra Dawnbringer (slight upgrade over BSA) all continue to do some pretty strong work in games I have played.
Think it is important to consider that Talismans don't take green's identity away when green can run the same talismans and put you at 5 mana on turn 2. Mox, Land, Talisman, Elf. Turn 2 land, 5 drop. In other words it might provide a similar function, but Green still does ramp/fixing better. I'm not sure I like any of the green inclusions all that much. Tireless Tracker and Jadelight Ranger are among my favorite beefy green 3cc threats. They give a nice combination of size and value. I also love Night's Whisper. I don't think I'm too keen on any of the other options though.
PW's make midrange better and I think my previous caps were too limiting, but I'm pretty happy with 3-4 PW tops per color/colorless and 1-2 per guild. More than that and I find myself drafting packs with 5+ PW's and while I appreciate increased choices and more diverse gameplay that PW's present, I still think they shouldn't appear more than 1-2 per pack on average. Personal preference.
Thanks for sharing your changes! I am finishing up a sizable overhaul myself. Here is where I am right now.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/34371
On the topic of reanimation and cheat strategies, there are only a couple ways to adjust the powerlevel. Water down your fatties or water down your cheat effects. I'm trying to water down the cheat effects but keep the fatties top tier. There are an abundance of tier 2 cheat effects available in cube that are only a turn or two slower than top tier stuff. If this doesn't work for me I may add back in Tinker and friends and cut the most oppressive cheat targets.
The main reason I had to cut Upheaval/Wildfire is because I dramatically scaled back on my mana rocks. The decks can't really function without like 4+ rocks and because I only run 11 in my 540, leaving these effects in my cube would have created draft traps. They are super strong and awesome cards, but I've been playing with them for like a decade so I'm fine with giving them some time on the bench.
I get the PW preference. I feel like I've been too conservative with them and in moving away from my caps it's entirely possible I've swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction. Time will tell, but I am excited for this environment. I'm LOVING these new walker designs they've been putting out the last couple sets.
I'll peep your cube. Do you have a list thread?
Totally agree with your evaluation of Elder and Oracle. I think I'm still running Elder but he's definitely not uncuttable. Oracle can stay out of my cube for all time.
Master of the Wild Hunt is glacially slow and dies to just about every removal spell in the cube. At 4 mana I think I can do better. I'd rather just have a good at 4 mana that is guaranteed to generate at least some value (Oh, hello Vivien Arkbow Ranger!). I think Prime Time is overrated personally. Green definitely doesn't have a lot going for it in the 6 drop department, but as a non-resilient threat it's just not good enough for the cost. Getty any land is sweet for sure, but I think it sounds better in theory than it works in practice. I've pushed my green section hard in the direction of midrange aggression though, so I think I'd have less use than most for the extra land drops. I do sincerely believe that Honored Hydra will play better than Prime Time most of the time in my cube. The most important part of Prime Time is the body, and Hydra draws you another, cheaper version of itself when it dies. Not to mention being playable on turn 3-4 out of the yard.
Purphorous is a powerful effect when it works but it does literal zero on his own. He great with Rabblemasters and stuff, but thats just the point. I don't think a 4 mana enchantment that requires a specific set of other cards to work is what my cube is looking for currently. I'm not saying its a bad card. But he does exemplify the types of cards I'm trying to move away from currently.
You make good arguments for Kreach and Cultivate. I cut them for 2 mana rampant growth effects to bring down my green curve, but I'm open to slotting them back in if I miss them.
I cut back on my mana rocks to keep midrange competetive against control. Ramping into a turn 3 wrath is just a stronger play than ramping into a turn 3 beater. I also don't run power, so the example you gave with a crazy turn 1 Mox hand doesn't apply to my environment.
Something like:
Blood Necromancy 2B
Sorcery (R)
Return target creature from your graveyard to the battlefield. You lose life equal to half of its converted mana cost rounded up.
I posted my cube list at the end of my last post. I'm still making some changes (mainly to the cards highlighted in red).
Needing creatures isn't a high bar to clear. I think Purphoros is an easy build around that can range from decent to insane. 2 damage per creature is disgusting and occasionally the pump ability is relevant too. I have won too many games off of this card to concede the point on this one.
The Mox I was referring too is Mox Diamond. I also don't run power.
I agree that too many archetype cards bloats the cube and lower the overall enjoyment. I also agree that planeswalkers generate fun game play and there is no reason to fear them. I think some of the best games are the one where there is a back and forth between creatures and planeswalkers at each side of the table. Planeswalkers directly increase the significance of creatures.
I also generally agree that removals create interactive games. However, I'd advise specifically against too many black 2 mana spot removals. There are plenty that are good enough, so I've tried to play 5 of them at some point at 720. That was too many. As a drafter playing black, you nearly always want the first, sometimes want the second and in my experience never want the third. A mix of cheap conditional removals, expensive versatile removal and card advanatge removals higher up the curve is a much better mix for deckbuilding and dynamic play in my experience.
This advice does not hold for Oblivion Ring effects in my experience. They are much less often dead cards, so they are more tolerable in higher numbers. They are also more likely to be splashed or brought in from the sideboard. There is still a limit on how many does a deck want, and they all share the same weaknesses, but the threshold is higher.
Expensive board wipes are not really worth the effort in my experience. They read okay, but you nearly always just prefer them to be cheaper without the extra fluff. Again, there is a limit real estate I will dedicate in my deck for mass removals. 2-3 is a good number. I'd never play more than three mass removals main deck, that's just asking to have dead cards.
One mana blue cantrips are excellent and represent a core effect of the color, like mana elves do for green. The two mana versions are significantly weaker and less desirable, just like the two mana mana dorks. May I suggest Portent? It is a weaker Ponder on yourself but can fateseal late game.
I like how Pack Rat creates its own sort of minigame and adds a new mode of operation for deck for a minimal cost of just including a single card.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I don't think a glut of removal spells at 2 mana is really an issue honestly. For my black Doom Blades I'm simply looking for the most effecient and effective kill spells available in the color. You don't curve out with removal. Every single black deck (aggro/midrange/control/combo) will want a couple of these so having enough in the draft is important. What kind of removal are you thinking of when you talk about more expensive/versatile spells?
Can't really argue with you on Pack Rat. It does what it does and it does it well. It may eventually come back into my list.
If there were enough </= 4 mana sweepers I wouldn't play any that cost 5, but alas, we don't have enough yet for my cube size. I go so far as to play [/card]Solar Blaze[/card] in my boros section. Lol.
While 1 CMC cantrips and mana dorks are way more desirable then 2cmc versions of similar effects, the two CMC versions are far from unplayable. It's a question of effect density in the draft environment IMO. Anticipate/Telling Time/Shimmer of Possibility see play in all the same decks that want to run Impulse. They aren't quite as good as Impulse but they are perfectly acceptable IMO. Portent seems ok, but I think I'd run Omen first honestly.
Few decks want to run Impulse over a one mana cantrip though. 90%+ of those that do, care about the instant speed. Even less of those decks will want to run a second two mana version over an additional one mana version. A plethora of one mana cantrips is a basis for the prowess/spells matters archetype (as can also be seen in constructed). The two mana versions do not chain nearly as well for your juicy triggers or greater dig power, you are far less likely to be able to afford to cast them in multiples in a tight game and they cannot be played on turn one (which is often a barren spot in blue based decks).
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Re: Sweepers - no slavery here man. I'm not picking 5 mana sweepers for the sake of having 5 mana sweepers. I run 2 (3 if you count Living Death) 5 mana sweepers because I've plumbed the depth of available 4 mana sweepers in that color and control needs the support. I think we might be talking past each other on this point. Sweepers are a necessary tool to provide for controlling decks. At my cube size I believe in order to meet that goal I need X sweepers in white and because of the lack of options, I have to run a couple tier 2 options. A 5 mana sweeper is still better than no sweeper if you are the control deck.
Re: Cantrips - Prowess/Spells Matter are not archetypes or decks I actively support. I agree, in most blue decks I'd rather run Ponder than Impulse, but if I can't get Ponder I'd rather run Impulse than a random other card and if I can't get Impulse I'd happily run Telling Time. Sure Ponder > Impulse > Telling Time, but they are all completely cubable. Blue cantrips are like mana dorks for green decks. Most green decks want 4-6 ramp sources and if they can't get them all at one mana they will happily play two mana versions. I happily and successfully run multiple two mana cantrips in all flavors of blue decks.
I agree on a bunch of your other evaluations though.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
Quite a few people in my group enjoy trying to draft combos and "do the most powerful thing I can" and are less concerned bout great game play.
They play cube as an escape from competitive magic, not as an extension.
I think traditional powered cubes have too many archetypes that are focused on going way over-the-top and comboing. Gameplay with cheat decks and ramp deck mirror matches can be a bit stale for me.
I enjoy fair deck interaction more than any form of magic and a bit too much of traditional vintage cube gameplay can feel like two ships passing in the night.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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More creature stand offs and a lot more generic decks?
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear