Just not exciting. For 9 mana, we're getting a worse Karn and Nicol Bolas in every ability. The +3 is fine, but I was expecting more from a 9-mana walker. The -2 can hit any permanent, but I hate the fact that it gives them a 2/2. For a 9-mana walker, I was hoping that the ability would be more like a Vindicate and less like a Beast Within. And the ultimate is extremely disappointing; you'd have to have walkers in the sb you're not using, and it doesn't win you the game immediately. I think I'm giving Ugin a pass. Thoughts?
They just need to get rid of colons on planeswalkers.
Anyway, I agree, I won't be cubing this at any size. If it were somehow an artifact planeswalker I would give it a test with the welder/daretti/tinker stuff, but planeswalker + other type isn't going to be a thing for some time.
I did compare not only they but other planeswalkers. The difference comes from the M15 new frame. The M15, KTK and C14 planeswalkers all have the colon slightly to the right compared to all the older ones.
The ones with the same frame have colons on the exact same place. Ugin's colons are all too low. No other walker has that. It is just a relatively well-done mockup, not a real card.
So this card can turn tokens face down (what would that even mean) and has no reminder text on what face down cards are (making it play super confusingly outside of a block with Morph)? Yeah that, amongst other reasons strongly suggest fake to me. We should wait till cards are confirmed before creating threads for discussion
I mean come on, that got to be a fake. Not only is it BAD, but that kind of awaited card would be one of the last spoiled I'd guess, not like a month early like that.
Just my take on the thing.
Actually, I think the most powerful/exciting cards are usually spoiled first to generate initial hype for the set.
I mean come on, that got to be a fake. Not only is it BAD, but that kind of awaited card would be one of the last spoiled I'd guess, not like a month early like that.
Just my take on the thing.
Actually, I think the most powerful/exciting cards are usually spoiled first to generate initial hype for the set.
It is still early for that. Spoilers for the set start in a month. At this point the "sneak preview for hype" are Magister of Worths or Rootborn Defenses, not the single planeswalker and signature mythic of the whole set.
This is supposed to be a leak, but those are normally fakes anyway - we always get tons of those before every set, this is just the most convincing fake!Ugin so far.
This is obviously fake. Beyond being terrible, not having any remainder text about what turning creatures face down does despite tons of room on the card, and not having a non-token limit on the turning face down (see ixidron for campiron, I don't believe you can even turn a token face down because it's not a card), the colons are messed up. While they do move slightly on other planeswalkers, Ugin's are justified with the bottom of the + abilities box, which makes them lower than any other planeswalker. Even the m15 ones. All of the colons on those cards are centered on the curved part.
100% fake. Let's wait till we have even a slightly reputable source (not just a random imgur post) before posting.
I am not saying the card is fake or not, but everyone needs to remember that every preview season a real card gets spoiled but the only image is a template version. Just because a card looks like someone made it on a site doesn't mean it isn't real. Take everything with a grain of salt no matter if you believe it is real or fake.
So this card can turn tokens face down (what would that even mean) and has no reminder text on what face down cards are (making it play super confusingly outside of a block with Morph)? Yeah that, amongst other reasons strongly suggest fake to me. We should wait till cards are confirmed before creating threads for discussion
Tokens cannot be turned face down, they are not cards.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
This looks incredibly fake. Look at all the walkers on willdice's post, the colons may not all be exact but they always fall pretty much within the points on the ability cost to the left. On this Ugin, the colons are far outside of those points. Pretty sloppy IMO
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
I like the -2 ability as well. Super versatile! He can protect himself with redundant lands, turn bombs into bears, and really just mess with the board. Non-token works, but taking lands out would nerf so many possibilities.
There's no way they'd print the ability without nontoken obv, but I'd like to see him at like 6 mana with the ability, in which case it would probably need a nonland rider to be fair.
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
It is absolutely a fake, but just to clarify for some people the rules DO support facedown tokens. The comprehensive rules refer to facedown permanents, not facedown cards (even if that is what most people call them in person). Wizards avoids that issue because it is confusing, not because it doesn't work. That ability isn't necessarily proof that it is a fake. There is enough other evidence though that it really doesn't matter.
It is absolutely a fake, but just to clarify for some people the rules DO support facedown tokens. The comprehensive rules refer to facedown permanents, not facedown cards (even if that is what most people call them in person). Wizards avoids that issue because it is confusing, not because it doesn't work. That ability isn't necessarily proof that it is a fake. There is enough other evidence though that it really doesn't matter.
You are correct, I was thinking of another interaction with tokens. They can be face down, and would presumably be a 2/2 until they die or the game ends.
It is absolutely a fake, but just to clarify for some people the rules DO support facedown tokens. The comprehensive rules refer to facedown permanents, not facedown cards (even if that is what most people call them in person). Wizards avoids that issue because it is confusing, not because it doesn't work. That ability isn't necessarily proof that it is a fake. There is enough other evidence though that it really doesn't matter.
Just because the rules support them doesn't mean wizards would Print a card that turned tokens face down. And it's not clear the rules do support it - while you are right that rule 110.6 states the following - " A permanent’s status is its physical state. There are four status categories, each of which has two possible values: tapped/untapped, flipped/unflipped, face up/face down, and phased in/phased out. Each permanent always has one of these values for each of these categories." - that may just be because they are putting everything in this one paragraph and to clarify spells vs permanents - while obviously tokens can be tapped/untapped, they cannot, for example, be phased out - 702.23j Phased-out tokens cease to exist as a state-based action. See rule 704.5d. - so just because something is in this paragraph doesn't mean tokens actually work for all of them. Further, there is no mention of tokens vs cards, only spells vs permanents, in the comp rules about face-down objects [rule 707]. I think the interaction of transform and tokens/cards with normal magic backs ins instructive here - tokens and clones will never transform, even if the game instructs them to, because they don't have the right card back. Additionally, cards with transform cannot be turned face down because they don't have the right card back - if something tells them to be turned face down, instead nothing happens. See http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157b - thus, it's likely tokens can't be turned face down either, because they don't have the right card back.
All that being said, they wouldn't print a card that turned tokens face down in all likelihood because of the confusion it would create even if the rules DO allow it.
You quoted me like you were trying to disprove something, but you just reiterated my statements. Yes, it is unlikely they would print it because it the ability is confusing. All I was trying to show was the rules didn't preclude this from being printed. It DOES work in the rules. Now whether it is likely they would print a card that would do this, that is another subject entirely (and a much more subjective one since cards at higher rarities are allowed to be confusing occasionally).
Just not exciting. For 9 mana, we're getting a worse Karn and Nicol Bolas in every ability. The +3 is fine, but I was expecting more from a 9-mana walker. The -2 can hit any permanent, but I hate the fact that it gives them a 2/2. For a 9-mana walker, I was hoping that the ability would be more like a Vindicate and less like a Beast Within. And the ultimate is extremely disappointing; you'd have to have walkers in the sb you're not using, and it doesn't win you the game immediately. I think I'm giving Ugin a pass. Thoughts?
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Even if real, looks like a bad Karn to me.
Check out the Cube Discord channel here
Anyway, I agree, I won't be cubing this at any size. If it were somehow an artifact planeswalker I would give it a test with the welder/daretti/tinker stuff, but planeswalker + other type isn't going to be a thing for some time.
Definitely underwhelming.
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I did compare not only they but other planeswalkers. The difference comes from the M15 new frame. The M15, KTK and C14 planeswalkers all have the colon slightly to the right compared to all the older ones.
Actually, I think the most powerful/exciting cards are usually spoiled first to generate initial hype for the set.
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It is still early for that. Spoilers for the set start in a month. At this point the "sneak preview for hype" are Magister of Worths or Rootborn Defenses, not the single planeswalker and signature mythic of the whole set.
This is supposed to be a leak, but those are normally fakes anyway - we always get tons of those before every set, this is just the most convincing fake!Ugin so far.
Check out the Cube Discord channel here
100% fake. Let's wait till we have even a slightly reputable source (not just a random imgur post) before posting.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
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Tokens cannot be turned face down, they are not cards.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
What's the source?
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As fake as this is, I would love for that -2 to be the actual ability. Except, nontoken permanent. Maybe also nonland.
You are correct, I was thinking of another interaction with tokens. They can be face down, and would presumably be a 2/2 until they die or the game ends.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Just because the rules support them doesn't mean wizards would Print a card that turned tokens face down. And it's not clear the rules do support it - while you are right that rule 110.6 states the following - " A permanent’s status is its physical state. There are four status categories, each of which has two possible values: tapped/untapped, flipped/unflipped, face up/face down, and phased in/phased out. Each permanent always has one of these values for each of these categories." - that may just be because they are putting everything in this one paragraph and to clarify spells vs permanents - while obviously tokens can be tapped/untapped, they cannot, for example, be phased out - 702.23j Phased-out tokens cease to exist as a state-based action. See rule 704.5d. - so just because something is in this paragraph doesn't mean tokens actually work for all of them. Further, there is no mention of tokens vs cards, only spells vs permanents, in the comp rules about face-down objects [rule 707]. I think the interaction of transform and tokens/cards with normal magic backs ins instructive here - tokens and clones will never transform, even if the game instructs them to, because they don't have the right card back. Additionally, cards with transform cannot be turned face down because they don't have the right card back - if something tells them to be turned face down, instead nothing happens. See http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157b - thus, it's likely tokens can't be turned face down either, because they don't have the right card back.
All that being said, they wouldn't print a card that turned tokens face down in all likelihood because of the confusion it would create even if the rules DO allow it.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Matt Tabak, the rules manager, just confirmed on his tumblr that tokens can be put facedown. Which puts the topic of whether this works in the rules to bed. (http://tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/103244326824/face-down-rules-use-permanent-in-the-text-so-can-a)
You quoted me like you were trying to disprove something, but you just reiterated my statements. Yes, it is unlikely they would print it because it the ability is confusing. All I was trying to show was the rules didn't preclude this from being printed. It DOES work in the rules. Now whether it is likely they would print a card that would do this, that is another subject entirely (and a much more subjective one since cards at higher rarities are allowed to be confusing occasionally).