Quote from KonfusiusI think it depends on the deck, but you are right, if the mana base is good enough to drop it reliably on turn two all is good.
Quote from jmw23If I wanted to pay a fair price for spells, I'd play standard.
Quote from JeffDerekI'm not sure what you're trying to contribute to the discussion . . . . I feel like I've tried pretty hard to get green to show what it can really do, and what it can really do is effective midrange, not aggro. Is there something special you're doing in your cube that you think would help those of us who think Green doesn't do aggro well?
Quote from JeffDerekAfter reading this thread for a bit and thinking some, I'm going to give cutting green aggro a bit of a shot. I'm going to try a bit of a midrangy toolbox style approach to green and see how it works.
My current green changes
-1 Wild Dogs
-1 Twinblade Slasher
-1 Pouncing Jaguar
-1 Jungle Lion
-1 Wild Nacatl
-1 Viridian Zealot
-1 Vines of Vastwood
+1 Arbor Elf
+1 Deranged Hermit
+1 Hornet Queen
+1 Birthing Pod
+1 Green Sun's Zenith
+1 Life from the Loam
+1 Oracle of Mul Daya
Quote from Itsar, the Laughing Onelet me state something - the things I tell you will not be wrong. It is you who will be wrong if you try arguing with me.
Quote from TappingStones »2 player drafting is known as "winston draft" I'll let you do some research on what that is.
Quote from killem2Yeah I include the exact cards YOU are cutting. Maybe your group doesn't like green aggro, so it doesn't get drafted, it doesn't mean it sucks.
I rarely get to see U/B tempo, one of the most powerful deck types in the cube, but people don't always jump for it.
Look at your thread title: Green Identity Issues?
You ask the question before we even get started.
Quote from magicmerlMost of those cuts seem fine, but I would not make ALL of the changes that you proposed there. I've used strikethrough on the cards that I think would be weaksauce to swap.
Quote from JeffDerekWe've had some success with R/G aggro decks, and W/G aggro decks, but never with G/R or G/W. Green is always a support color, which means the GG aggro dudes never see play.
Regardless, this is pointless. There was an entire thread about why I have had trouble with green aggro, and while many people liked it a lot, I wasn't the only person who didn't find it getting drafted much. I didn't bring this up in hopes that you could all talk me back into green aggro. Explaining to my group that they should draft Jungle Lion when it hasn't been good ever when they've drafted it won't result in them drafting it. I had hoped that someone else might actually find this idea kind of cool, but instead almost all of the comments have received have been about how green aggro is actually good, and how Upheaval belongs in all cubes, and and how all the cards I was talking about were already in everybody's cubes.
Since nobody seems to be interested in discussing the thing I wanted to talk about, but instead wants to correct my opinions, I think the best thing to do is let this topic die. I will try to do this on my own, and if it works, I'll post it in my own cube topic. I'm not trying to be a problem, and I never intended for this to end up in the DKA spoiler thread, so just let it go.
Quote from Konfusius
The problem with greens identity is not that green tries to do more than one thing. I think all colors should do that to have a diverse and interesting draft format. The problem is that green is not a color you want to draft for something other colors can't do better, and therefore, most of the time, you just don't want to draft green. Aggro? Red, white and black do it better, they even have removal, disruption and reach! Fatties? Green has the worst. Ramp? Artifacts cover that pretty well without a color commitment, thank you very much. What green is good at are solid midrange creatures. Most green decks were BG rock and Bant or Jund control with an occasional GW midrange deck thrown in. Green aggro cards either went undrafted or got moved to the sideboard because the few desirable early plays were not worth having a worse mana base.
My current solution to the green identity crisis is to cut fast artifact mana. That way, green has something unique that players actually want to draft. More ramp, more fatties and more control instead of the aggro one drops nobody wanted to play here. I'm happy with it so far, but it is still an experiment. I think aggro has enough support with white, black and red as primary and blue and green as secondary colors.
Quote from Salmo »It's just about reasonable expectations.
Quote from GoodkingI run green aggro support and GSZ is still worth playing. In a one-of toolbox format, with the best creatures around (the majority of whom have ETB effects), it is one of my top green cards.
Quote from Fredo
I could see expanding on this idea by adding Worldly Tutor and/or Birthing Pod for added toolbox shenanigans. Since you're recommending it now, I presume Pod has been working out for you, Konfusius? I think I'd enjoy playing with it.
Quote from HinotamaGreen is a very offensive color with little in the way of defense, so it has to chip away at your opponent's resources (via artifact/land destruction) as a preemptive measure.