Quote from Usman
Whether it's worth the opportunity cost of running something else in a deck is the big question; would I rather have this in my deck than a cheap burn spell/cheap dude?
Quote from Star SlayerThis is how I see the card in cube: It has a great potential to suffer from the "25th card for the deck"-problem.
Quote from wtwlf123I think it solves the "using the 2Xth best card for the deck" problem. I'd rather include this than some other card that barely fits what I want my deck to do.
Quote from Star Slayer »Faithless Looting is neither a creature, nor removal, nor disruption, nor strict card advantage. Most often, there will be 24+ cards that do fill one of those roles and I'd be happy to include them all in my deck, leaving the Looting out.
Quote from Phantizle(I think)...I would much rather include it than the 4th+ burn spell, as this card allows you to dig for those burn spells (for a cheap cost) or dig for other effects/creatures if you need those.
Quote from NewbornMuseI'm really uncertain whether I want to play it. MonoR probably wants it, but as soon as you start to combine it with another color (happens quite often in my cube, we almost never Booster Draft), you have better ways to gain card quality.
Quote from wtwlf123It depends on the color you're combining it with. Other than blue, none of the colors have good card filtering.
Quote from xfollowthereaperxI think a lot of off color cards benefit from Faithless Looting: Tarmogoyf, Vengevine, Genesis, Bloodghast, Life from the Loam. Being able to filter is the main function but these other interactions are something to take note of.
Quote from ChimaeraI think its a no brainer include in 4xx and higher cubes. It expands red's role in the cube and helps it mesh better with the other colors. At it's worst it can help mono red ditch extra lands.
Quote from LasseriniDoubt I'll include this. There's not alot of red interactions with it (i.e. I'm not MD'ing this & Squee without other & better interactions anyway).
My red section is almost exclusively aggro, so I really have trouble believing that my players will MD this over another creature or burn spell.
Quote from wtwlf123The mods should move the multiple pages of discussion from the other thread over here. No reason to discuss it all again.
Quote from UsmanSmall sample size is small, but I tested it in a B/R aggro deck (vs a U/G midrange one) and thought that Faithless Looting was very good. It helped to dig for removal/cheap guys/LD effects rather easily and at a cheap enough cost to where casting it didn't feel like I was disrupting my curve.
Whether it's worth the opportunity cost of running something else in a deck is the big question; would I rather have this in my deck than a cheap burn spell/cheap dude? I'm not sure. I plan to get more data in, but my first impression is a good one.
Quote from xfollowthereaperxGood to know Usman, that's my problem with this card. The red burn is pretty top notch in cube.
Quote from Star SlayerIn cube, it almost never happens that I have to fill out my deck with cards that barely fit. It is almost completely opposite to normal limited games.
Faithless Looting is neither a creature, nor removal, nor disruption, nor strict card advantage. Most often, there will be 24+ cards that do fill one of those roles and I'd be happy to include them all in my deck, leaving the Looting out.
Quote from wtwlf123You're right, it's card selection/filtering. Something that red's not used to having. Without testing it, there's no way to tell how it'll play out. Not only does it combo well with several strategies and single cards in the cube, but I'd be willing to trade this spell and two cards I can't use/don't need for two cards that are valuable and useful any day of the week. It can fix flood and screw, as well as optimize your hand for curving out. And it can do it twice. I'd gladly include this card as my 23rd or 24th card over a card that's more redundant at a higher casting cost in my curve.
Quote from wtwlf123Me too. But that's why I want to test it. I don't really know for sure.
I'm also excited about the prospect of using a nontraditional red card. Red cards for reanimation/graveyard/loam/crucible strategies? Seems pretty interesting. Perhaps the more nontraditional the deck gets, the better this spell will be. I don't really know. But I'm interested to test out card filtering with flashback in red.
Quote from bondafongI think this card is good in red (unlike in blue) because red doesn't really need land 5+. So it will often be draw 2 discard two useless cards. In blue decks you often need your lands alot more and thus can't keep lands to discard as early in the game.
Quote from PyreDreamI'm including it regardless just because it looks like a lot of fun to enable graveyard strategies in red, but I agree with Star Slayer that the 23rd card problem of regular drafts seems like a non-issue for cube.
Quote from Ponder »this is superior to Frantic Search; and Deep Analysis
I like this more than most of the Brainstorm; Impulse; Preodrain; effects in blue. And you personally rate those cards highly for MD?
how is this worse than Brainstorm; Preordain; or Ponder;?
Quote from Ponder »But it is better than all the other blue options anyway...
Quote from wtwlf123Faithless Looting is card disadvantage. None of those other cards are.
It's on par with Frantic Search (also card disadvantage), but it's not as good as any of the straight card selection cards are, and it's certainly not better than the CA draw.
It's not anywhere near as good as the blue options that make the cut in smaller cubes.
Quote from Ponder »I dont think it can be considered disadvantage
Quote from wtwlf123Bazaar of Baghdad is also card disadvantage.
I agree that the card is good, but when you call it card advantage, it kills the validity of your argument.
I agree that card disadvantage doesn't mean that a card is bad. There are a lot of great cube cards that are card disadvantage. Faithless Looting might be another card to add to that list.
I agree that the effect is unique. I agree that it's probably good enough for the cube. I know it has a lot of good interactions in the cube. These points I'm not contesting with you. But when you say it's card advantage when it's not, I can't agree with that point.
It is. Plain and simple.
Simple exercise to explain card advantage (again) -
In each case, you start with 3 cards in hand:
1. Deep Analysis. You play it and go up to 4 total cards. You flash it back and go up to 6 total cards. You went from 3 cards to 6 cards in hand, only using one card from your hand. A 4-for-1 play; card advantage.
2. Ponder. You play it and stay at 3 total cards. A 1-for-1 play; card parity.
3. Frantic Search. You play it and go from 3 total cards to 2 total cards. A 2-for-3 play; card disadvantage.
No matter what happens with the quality of the cards drawn/discarded, it's still considered card disadvantage if you net a negative number of cards. Faithless Looting will fall into this category for the same reason.