Yes, you can play it for three on turn three with a signet. I just think that if you can play it no earlier than turn two for two, it is not more problematic than Hymn, and after turn three the opponent should at least have made some land drops. Because if you cannot randomly deprive them of their lands, they can cast spells and have a chance to make up for the card disadvantage. If they don't because in addition to playing Mind Twist you first dropped some aggressive creatures, then it is not that different from Armageddon. Either way, I don't see why Mind Twist should be especially problematic in a cube without fast artifact mana.
Yes, you can play it for three on turn three with a signet. I just think that if you can play it no earlier than turn two for two, it is not more problematic than Hymn, and after turn three the opponent should at least have made some land drops. Because if you cannot randomly deprive them of their lands, they can cast spells and have a chance to make up for the card disadvantage. If they don't because in addition to playing Mind Twist you first dropped some aggressive creatures, then it is not that different from Armageddon. Either way, I don't see why Mind Twist should be especially problematic in a cube without fast artifact mana.
It's not about playing it ASAP and just depriving them of lands. Yes, Hymn is awesome when you land screw your opponent. Mind Twist does the opposite. You let them hit some lands, but then empty their hand before they can play their real bruising spells.
Mind Twist for three doesn't sound that ridiculous, but it's double the card advantage from a Mind Twist for two. It's like trying to equate Thoughtcast to Ancestral Recall. In very few instances are your opponents going to be able to come back from a 3-point Twist. If you accelerate into a four-point Twist, then your opponent is completely justified to flip the table and rage-quit.
It's extremely rare to lose a game after resolving a Spiral ...I can't recall a time off the top of my head where someone has.
This is a poor metric to use, as I'm sure the following two examples have happened to you:
1) Blue player dies before resolving Time Spiral while it sits in his hand.
2) Blue player doesn't play Time Spiral because he fears giving his opponent seven new cards will make him lose due to burn.
Straw manning a bit here, I could say, "Emrakul is good. Every time it's resolved, that player has won the game." Now Time Spiral is much better than Emrakul, but applying the same metric to other cards doesn't really do anything which is why I would be hesitant to make this argument on behalf of Time Spiral in the first place.
Besides, ignoring everything I've said so far, we've had players resolve Time Spiral and lose the turn after, so while you might not be able to recall times where it's been more detrimental than beneficial, we certainly can. Time Spiral is more detrimental than beneficial actually the majority of the time for us.
I don't include Mana Vault or Grim Monolith either, but those are much more borderline. I would absolutely not call Timetwister broken in a cube environment, and I do run it in my cube. It's not a particularly high pick usually.
Gilded Lotus fixes your colored mana requirements for the rest of the game, and also accelerates you into 'playing finisher, mana still up to protect it' on your turn 6 or so. Also, the turn you play it you can still protect your board position with the 3 mana. Some well respected Magic players like it too It's like spinach for your color-intensive manabase (we always sing the Popeye music when we play it). Seriously, reusable three reusable any color of mana is nice. Try it before saying 'I'd never want that in decks' because it is super-awesome in control decks and the artifact deck.
Coalition Relic is of course awesome; not sure why they can't coexist.
It might be because we pack a ton of aggressive cards, so blue opponents are already low and Time Spiraling will give their opponent burn and removal while they're already in an unfavorable position.
Even in the matchup against aggro, it's still a beast. I don't know why it's different for you. It's one of those differences between groups that'll just make me go: :shrug:.
I know I have more than my fair share that make you do the same.
As a rule, Draw 7s are much more beneficial for aggro for the reasons Blimpy stated because you draw more cards off them despite opponents getting first crack at the new hand. You can also disrupt lategame plans by removing whatever was being planned for randomness.
However Time Spiral never had this problem here because it's basically free for the deck playing it, giving you the first opportunity to play things. Even for control, you'll play differently leading up to it to empty your hand as much as possible and get value on the board. If you draw a counterspell in the new 7 cards, you can keep two mana up for that to ensure you opponent's best card in the seven doesn't see the light of day. Really, it's amongst my favourite cards in blue. I would love a foil copy.
Balance
Time Spiral (Vapor Snag)
Library
Mana Drain (Foil)
Time Walk (Delver of Secrets)
Recall (Thirst for Knowledge)
Mana Vault
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
Lotus
Moxen (These 9 artifact manas for signets)
Mind Twist (Mind Shatter)
Considering Removing:
Grim Monolith
Tinker
Jitte
I'm not sure what to replace some of these with. Any ideas?
Not sure if you run it, but if you are considering removing something like Tinker, and are already removing most of the really fast mana, you would probably want to remove Channel as well. If Lotus Petal is still in there you can still Turn 1 Blightsteel Colossus
And if you are looking to remove the really really broken stuff, I think Recurring Nightmare is arguably more powerful than the Jitte
Nope, no channel. No lotus petal either. Or colossus. I think I have only two or three cards over a 6 drop, none over 8.
Need to find a land to replace library though.
ALSO
I'm considering NOT cutting mind twist. I am probably wrong, but I don't see it being quite so powerful now that all the huge mana ramp is gone. Still, I might test mind shatter in its place for now.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
It's not about playing it ASAP and just depriving them of lands. Yes, Hymn is awesome when you land screw your opponent. Mind Twist does the opposite. You let them hit some lands, but then empty their hand before they can play their real bruising spells.
Mind Twist for three doesn't sound that ridiculous, but it's double the card advantage from a Mind Twist for two. It's like trying to equate Thoughtcast to Ancestral Recall. In very few instances are your opponents going to be able to come back from a 3-point Twist. If you accelerate into a four-point Twist, then your opponent is completely justified to flip the table and rage-quit.
Unpowered 540 Cube
About Me
This is a poor metric to use, as I'm sure the following two examples have happened to you:
1) Blue player dies before resolving Time Spiral while it sits in his hand.
2) Blue player doesn't play Time Spiral because he fears giving his opponent seven new cards will make him lose due to burn.
Straw manning a bit here, I could say, "Emrakul is good. Every time it's resolved, that player has won the game." Now Time Spiral is much better than Emrakul, but applying the same metric to other cards doesn't really do anything which is why I would be hesitant to make this argument on behalf of Time Spiral in the first place.
Besides, ignoring everything I've said so far, we've had players resolve Time Spiral and lose the turn after, so while you might not be able to recall times where it's been more detrimental than beneficial, we certainly can. Time Spiral is more detrimental than beneficial actually the majority of the time for us.
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
I don't include Mana Vault or Grim Monolith either, but those are much more borderline. I would absolutely not call Timetwister broken in a cube environment, and I do run it in my cube. It's not a particularly high pick usually.
Coalition Relic is of course awesome; not sure why they can't coexist.
-AA
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My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
I ...don't ...what. Nevermind. I don't know what to say.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
I know I have more than my fair share that make you do the same.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
However Time Spiral never had this problem here because it's basically free for the deck playing it, giving you the first opportunity to play things. Even for control, you'll play differently leading up to it to empty your hand as much as possible and get value on the board. If you draw a counterspell in the new 7 cards, you can keep two mana up for that to ensure you opponent's best card in the seven doesn't see the light of day. Really, it's amongst my favourite cards in blue. I would love a foil copy.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Balance
Time Spiral (Vapor Snag)
Library
Mana Drain (Foil)
Time Walk (Delver of Secrets)
Recall (Thirst for Knowledge)
Mana Vault
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
Lotus
Moxen (These 9 artifact manas for signets)
Mind Twist (Mind Shatter)
Considering Removing:
Grim Monolith
Tinker
Jitte
I'm not sure what to replace some of these with. Any ideas?
And if you are looking to remove the really really broken stuff, I think Recurring Nightmare is arguably more powerful than the Jitte
Need to find a land to replace library though.
ALSO
I'm considering NOT cutting mind twist. I am probably wrong, but I don't see it being quite so powerful now that all the huge mana ramp is gone. Still, I might test mind shatter in its place for now.