Am I the only one that uses Chaos Orb as Vindicate?
It's somewhat common to see cubes outside of MTGS play Chaos Orb as Vindicate, and even an untargeted version of Vindicate which would destroy Simic Sky Swallower.
I don't like this because Chaos Orb is nothing close to Vindicate, never intended to be.
Do outdated rules count as custom errata/house rules?
My mana burn and thawing glaciers might take offense
I'm sorry to say but they probably do count as errata/house rules...
Were I to play it I'd play it as written, but honestly, just spacing out all your permanents by a card's diagonal length is too much of a faff. It would get old.
I actually think you're wrong wtwtf. Not a lot of people on this forum use chaos orb, but from what I've heard, a ton of cubes outside of this forum use it.
Seeings as how the question was asked to the members of this forum, I don't think that was terribly inaccurate to say no.
There are cubes outside this forum that use it that way, but they're in the minority even in the non-mtgs cubes I've seen.
The only reason I'm not playing Chaos Orb completely as written is because of the impracticality issue of playing against it 'correctly', which is for the opposing player to spread his cards out enough that Orb can't hit more than one. I do think the flipping part is an important part of the card. Same with keeping Shahrazad out - I think it's an acceptable card and I'd play it, but it's impractical to ask everyone to sit around for an hour to wait for a match that could be as long as six games to finish.
I do have a 'Cube errata' on Orcish Artillery and Orcish Oriflamme due to the theme of the old-school cube - I have Alpha copies of both and they get played for their Alpha casting costs (1R on both), but people seem to enjoy that quirk and it also improves the red 2-drops, which pretty much suck otherwise. Everything else is played with current rules and current Oracle texts - it's way too much to ask people to remember how the rules *used* to work, IMO.
I recently implemented a banned list with the usual suspects. One card that my playgroup strongly pushed me to ban was Fastbond (I was in favor of this ban as well). This is a card that not many people think is even good enough to run in cube but we found it to be utterly broken in many decks, mainly U/G and Bant. It's a narrow card that requires building around but in 8 man drafts you can easily P1P1 this card and build a deck that is good without it, broken when it's in play and pretty much unstoppable if it's played turn 1. Some notable interactions that caused problems were Upheaval, Future Sight (this got cut awhile back however), Land Tax, Crucible of Worlds (fetchlands, LD lands, pretty much any land that sacs itself is trouble), Life from the Loam, Meloku, the Clouded Mirror and draw 7s and to a lesser extent karoo lands, landfall creatures and regular draw spells. There was also an infinite combo when I ran Zuran Orb of Fastbond + Zuran Orb + Crucible of Worlds for infinite life/mana which you can actually play on turn 1 with a god hand (I think turn 3 was the earliest I saw). You can also Strip Mine lock someone with Strip Mine + Crucible of Worlds + Fastbond. If anyone's looking for a build around me card for a high power 6+ man draft environment I recommend giving it a shot.
The only reason I'm not playing Chaos Orb completely as written is because of the impracticality issue of playing against it 'correctly', which is for the opposing player to spread his cards out enough that Orb can't hit more than one.
That is why we use it as Vindicate, it never hits more than one card. Realistically, it only hits one card about half the time, making it unplayable.
Realistically, it only hits one card about half the time, making it unplayable.
Which is why it doesn't make the cut in the cube.
If you had to flip a coin and only colorless-vindicate something if you win the flip, it would be closer to a functional errata of what the card actually does.
That is why we use it as Vindicate, it never hits more than one card. Realistically, it only hits one card about half the time, making it unplayable.
Wusses! Hitting multiple cards is the beauty of Chaos Orb. When I get one, I will run it as written House rules will be that all cards must be contained on a standard playmat, and that no re-arranging can occur while Chaos Orb is on the stack or on the battlefield.
If you had to flip a coin and only colorless-vindicate something if you win the flip, it would be closer to a functional errata of what the card actually does.
Once you get the flipping down it should hit almost every time. It's really obnoxious to play against if played as printed.
Once you get the flipping down it should hit almost every time. It's really obnoxious to play against if played as printed.
I very much disagree with this. There's lots of cards that are obnoxious to play against, but Chaos Orb is not one of them, assuming you're playing with your cards spread out (which I would certainly be doing if i was playing against the guy with the Orb and it was being played as printed). At that point the upside is Vindicate, which I admit is a great upside, but there's also the downside of missing (or even accidentally hitting your own cards), and it's exciting no matter what.
Realistically what's going to happen is that as soon as Chaos Orb gets played, the opponent is going to spread his cards out (unless you have a rule that prohibits this, in which case he'll just be occupying the entire table for the entire match). My errata is to prevent this from actually happening, because it's annoying to everyone else. We're almost always going to be playing on an 8-foot dining room table that comfortably holds 3 matches but no more. It's not the perfect solution, becuase if you screw up the flip the Chaos Orb is likely to get something anyway, but it's close enough for me.
I'm adding Chaos Orb to my cube, to be played as printed, having just picked one up as part of a CE set.
I gave it a try. If you spin it on a diagonal axis by holding the corners it is pretty accurate. Looking forward to taking down shroud creatures with it and pretending I'm Gambit.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I very much disagree with this. There's lots of cards that are obnoxious to play against, but Chaos Orb is not one of them, assuming you're playing with your cards spread out (which I would certainly be doing if i was playing against the guy with the Orb and it was being played as printed). At that point the upside is Vindicate, which I admit is a great upside, but there's also the downside of missing (or even accidentally hitting your own cards), and it's exciting no matter what.
Realistically what's going to happen is that as soon as Chaos Orb gets played, the opponent is going to spread his cards out (unless you have a rule that prohibits this, in which case he'll just be occupying the entire table for the entire match). My errata is to prevent this from actually happening, because it's annoying to everyone else. We're almost always going to be playing on an 8-foot dining room table that comfortably holds 3 matches but no more. It's not the perfect solution, becuase if you screw up the flip the Chaos Orb is likely to get something anyway, but it's close enough for me.
I don't think it's your errata, though. Because the gatherer say this.
10/4/2004: You can arrange your cards any time before the Orb is put onto the battlefield, but not after. In general, you should not stack cards or put them in places where your opponent can't read the names of all of them or count them. This is recommended good gaming practice.
So... your opponent can't rearrange them. If he does, flash him the gatherer.
10/4/2004: You can arrange your cards any time before the Orb is put onto the battlefield, but not after. In general, you should not stack cards or put them in places where your opponent can't read the names of all of them or count them. This is recommended good gaming practice.
So... your opponent can't rearrange them. If he does, flash him the gatherer.
Yes they can. You can rearrange them while the Orb is on the stack...
Yes they can. You can rearrange them while the Orb is on the stack...
Ouch, umm. That sounds pretty annoying then. But I just don't like flipping cards, I guess. I think if you practice and get good at it, you can probably get it to be colorless vindicate, which should make every cube. But I don't think it's something that people would enjoy doing so much.
It's somewhat common to see cubes outside of MTGS play Chaos Orb as Vindicate, and even an untargeted version of Vindicate which would destroy Simic Sky Swallower.
I don't like this because Chaos Orb is nothing close to Vindicate, never intended to be.
I'm sorry to say but they probably do count as errata/house rules...
Were I to play it I'd play it as written, but honestly, just spacing out all your permanents by a card's diagonal length is too much of a faff. It would get old.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Seeings as how the question was asked to the members of this forum, I don't think that was terribly inaccurate to say no.
There are cubes outside this forum that use it that way, but they're in the minority even in the non-mtgs cubes I've seen.
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I do have a 'Cube errata' on Orcish Artillery and Orcish Oriflamme due to the theme of the old-school cube - I have Alpha copies of both and they get played for their Alpha casting costs (1R on both), but people seem to enjoy that quirk and it also improves the red 2-drops, which pretty much suck otherwise. Everything else is played with current rules and current Oracle texts - it's way too much to ask people to remember how the rules *used* to work, IMO.
That is why we use it as Vindicate, it never hits more than one card. Realistically, it only hits one card about half the time, making it unplayable.
Which is why it doesn't make the cut in the cube.
If you had to flip a coin and only colorless-vindicate something if you win the flip, it would be closer to a functional errata of what the card actually does.
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Wusses! Hitting multiple cards is the beauty of Chaos Orb. When I get one, I will run it as written House rules will be that all cards must be contained on a standard playmat, and that no re-arranging can occur while Chaos Orb is on the stack or on the battlefield.
Once you get the flipping down it should hit almost every time. It's really obnoxious to play against if played as printed.
It's even worse to play against when using pretend rules.
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I very much disagree with this. There's lots of cards that are obnoxious to play against, but Chaos Orb is not one of them, assuming you're playing with your cards spread out (which I would certainly be doing if i was playing against the guy with the Orb and it was being played as printed). At that point the upside is Vindicate, which I admit is a great upside, but there's also the downside of missing (or even accidentally hitting your own cards), and it's exciting no matter what.
Realistically what's going to happen is that as soon as Chaos Orb gets played, the opponent is going to spread his cards out (unless you have a rule that prohibits this, in which case he'll just be occupying the entire table for the entire match). My errata is to prevent this from actually happening, because it's annoying to everyone else. We're almost always going to be playing on an 8-foot dining room table that comfortably holds 3 matches but no more. It's not the perfect solution, becuase if you screw up the flip the Chaos Orb is likely to get something anyway, but it's close enough for me.
I gave it a try. If you spin it on a diagonal axis by holding the corners it is pretty accurate. Looking forward to taking down shroud creatures with it and pretending I'm Gambit.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I don't think it's your errata, though. Because the gatherer say this.
10/4/2004: You can arrange your cards any time before the Orb is put onto the battlefield, but not after. In general, you should not stack cards or put them in places where your opponent can't read the names of all of them or count them. This is recommended good gaming practice.
So... your opponent can't rearrange them. If he does, flash him the gatherer.
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Yes they can. You can rearrange them while the Orb is on the stack...
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Ouch, umm. That sounds pretty annoying then. But I just don't like flipping cards, I guess. I think if you practice and get good at it, you can probably get it to be colorless vindicate, which should make every cube. But I don't think it's something that people would enjoy doing so much.
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