Yeah, so I'm full of crap, I also play simulacrum.
Allow me to rephrase. We cut all Masticores, Lodestone Golem, and Juggernaut. We still play Solemn Simulacrum, Smokestack, and Nevinyrral's Disk. Essentially we got rid of the dudes that are there to attack and block, and kept the utility 4 drops.
We ended up cutting all of the Masticores and Lodestone Golem/Juggernaut at least a year ago when the increasing quality of colored four drops led to them being outclassed at deckbuilding time constantly.
Of those I only have Lodestone Golem left. I will keep an eye on it, it is possible that it is only maindecked in sealed play. Because I design my Cube for 6+ person booster draft, that would not be good enough to keep it around.
MTM seems more universally useful to me than Lodestone Golem, as the latter loses a bit of appeal in the mirror match. I think both cards are pretty great though and would undoubtably include both at 450.
Lodestone has been awesome in my cube. Play tons of stone rain effects as you curve into it and then watch the other dude cry!
Yes, that is what I remember as well and why I kept it over Masticores. I know the last time I saw it played was sealed though, so I want to keep an eye on it in draft. Given the choice, people will probably just play Hellrider, Koth of the Hammer and Hero of Oxid Ridge over it, right?
Yes, that is what I remember as well and why I kept it over Masticores. I know the last time I saw it played was sealed though, so I want to keep an eye on it in draft. Given the choice, people will probably just play Hellrider, Koth of the Hammer and Hero of Oxid Ridge over it, right?
Depends on the deck? I support LD in green too so it works in a R/G deck that those cards might not shine in.
The other deck I really like it in is blue based artifact decks that run Tezzeret and tons of mana stones. I remember a great deck a while back that ended with a kicked Rites of Replication on Lodestone to end the game.
Also, I don't mind it as a curve topper in an aggro deck that wants to push back the Wrath another turn.
Honestly, I just think it is a solid 4 drop that can fit into a few different places. For most decks it wouldn't be the first choice for a spell at the 4 slot but there are still enough slots that it usually makes it in to decks when drafted.
Of those I only have Lodestone Golem left. I will keep an eye on it, it is possible that it is only maindecked in sealed play. Because I design my Cube for 6+ person booster draft, that would not be good enough to keep it around.
Golem is a card that is still nowhere near the chopping block in my 540. I love it more than most but it sees play in a good amount of decks. Dropping it with fast mana can just be backbreaking as well as a sweet curve-topper in aggro decks or just a strong play in mana-heavy/midrange green decks. Or it goes well in a pox deck as an additional Nether Void-style effect.
I am years away from a world where I can imagine Lodestone.
Back to the Masticores, I'm getting closer & closer to cutting them. Maybe I should just start with Razormane before I move on to the original/Molten-Tail?
How do you guys feel about the Masticores in 2015? Do you guys still play them? This thread makes it sound like they were on their way out 2 years ago.
The original Masticore is still very good. While it doesn't look better than Molten-tail on the surface, is is certainly better in the type of decks that want a masticore (i.e. more controlly decks). The ability to hose down multiple creatures, and not require dudes in the yard is a big bonus for those types of decks.
I still like them for their ability to crowd control, so I wouldn't agree that they only fill attack/block roles. The problem as people have already pointed out is that the quality of four/five drops has gone up hugely in the last few years, on a trend that started with Ajani Goldmane and currently has us with stuff like Shaman of the Great Hunt and Brutal Hordechief on the outside looking in.
My personal opinion is that Masticores have become merely fair as the power level shifted upwards around them. In a world filled with easy 2-for-1s, the Masticores barely offer card parity (essentially discard a card to kill a creature) and the mana investment required is very costly on top of the card investment. Their colorless nature has become a weakness - where they were previously strong contenders for the 4-drop slot in a deck, their value has gone down as 4-drops more narrow in their castability but exceedingly more powerful in their effect entered the game.
I'm still a fan of the original Masticore, because it's just a solid control creature that's colorless and can go in every control deck. It's the only one I currently play, because MTM ended up being pushed out by the train of quality aggro 4-drops that has been printed in the last few years.
I think the best of them in today's cube is the Molten-Tail. He is the one who fits into the more kind of cube, powered or unpowered. In a action perspective, he fits in any aggro deck that are looking for some reach to end the game, by easily bypassing the board with his ability to deal 4 damage to any target. He also perfectly counterbalances his upkeep downside by discarding creatures you don't want and that couldn't help you in the late game.
The original Masticore is not bad either, but I think he fits more in a heavily powered environment that is looking to add some additional tools to protect control player from early aggro waves speed by mox and stuff. Larger cubes maybe want to add him as well, looking for some variety. However, on this one, the upkeep downside could seems awkward sometimes because, in a control shell where he truly shine, you don't want to be discarding card every single turn. Excellent sideboard card though.
The 5 drop one, for me, is not cube material anymore, even in 720. Maybe at 1K or more.
Razormane Masticore doesn't really look that good on paper, but every time I see it in play around here, it is always ridiculous. A five power first striking monster that eats a <4 toughness creature every turn just makes combat completely unwinnable for the opponent. Plus, no extra mana investment required once it's in play.
With the rise of strong token producing creatures pinging effects are as strong if not stronger than ever.
He can act as a discard outlet, and agaianst certain decks can take over the game by himself.
I dont run him at 450 but I probably should....
Never been a fan of molten tail or razormane. Molten is too contigent on graveyard + mana + hand. Doesn't rectify a bad board state very well... Razormane is dead in too many matchups to justify 5 mana.
I've always used Molten-Tail to finish off people as an aggressive finisher. I always have creatures in the yard (or they're dead anyway if they didn't kill any of them!), and usually have a card or two in hand, and it does a LOT of damage between attacking and its ability. Every time I think about removing it, it kills someone that another creature would not have.
OG Masticore is likely never leaving for me, because I still do value history quite a bit and it's still pretty decent.
Razormane, however, is no longer present but would have a good shot at coming back if I expanded to 630/720+
I still play all 3 at 450 and love them all. The first to go will definitely be Razormane, and I've actually been considering cutting it in favor of Scuttling Doom Engine. But I've been holding out because I love masticores above all other creatures.
I only run OG Masticore in my 450. It never fails to impress, especially against token-oriented strategies. I haven't really looked into including the others due to not being sure about cuts, but I can see the merits of each of them. I'd circle around to them if I end up increasing the size of my cube in the future.
I run all three in my 720 and I like they won't be leaving anytime soon. I recently ran the original Masticore and Razormane in a R/B reanimator deck and Razormane did great. Really helped stall the ground game while applying pressure and filling my yard with some fat. Great discard outlets all of them.
OG Masticore is great at killing utility dorks (F- You Mother of Runes) and can be annoying to kill because of its regeneration.
Razormane Masticore kills quite a lot of threats and can be very hard to block/kill in combat
The discard for both ranges from being a pain to a key synergy. It's a definite downside but if I'm running the a Masticore I usually have some way to make use of the discard.
Protip- Set something on your library to remember the discard; no discard, no Masticore. I have lost more than a few games by drawing too quickly.
The discard for both ranges from being a pain to a key synergy. It's a definite downside but if I'm running the a Masticore I usually have some way to make use of the discard.
That’s why I said this is a Sultai card, ya? Reanimator, Delve, the need for a pinger, and the presence of card advantage to feed ol’ Nasty Masti are features of the Wedge.
My playgroup enjoys the card because it’s so weird but can be surprisingly effective too, which adds to the shock value.
The real question is: “what is that obscene thing coming out of its mouth!?” (OG version)
The discard for both ranges from being a pain to a key synergy. It's a definite downside but if I'm running the a Masticore I usually have some way to make use of the discard.
That’s why I said this is a Sultai card, ya? Reanimator, Delve, the need for a pinger, and the presence of card advantage to feed ol’ Nasty Masti are features of the Wedge.
My playgroup enjoys the card because it’s so weird but can be surprisingly effective too, which adds to the shock value.
The real question is: “what is that obscene thing coming out of its mouth!?” (OG version)
I always assumed it was something like the Xenomorph's Inner Jaw, probably has it to make all that masticating it must do a bit easier.
Allow me to rephrase. We cut all Masticores, Lodestone Golem, and Juggernaut. We still play Solemn Simulacrum, Smokestack, and Nevinyrral's Disk. Essentially we got rid of the dudes that are there to attack and block, and kept the utility 4 drops.
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Depends on the deck? I support LD in green too so it works in a R/G deck that those cards might not shine in.
The other deck I really like it in is blue based artifact decks that run Tezzeret and tons of mana stones. I remember a great deck a while back that ended with a kicked Rites of Replication on Lodestone to end the game.
Also, I don't mind it as a curve topper in an aggro deck that wants to push back the Wrath another turn.
Honestly, I just think it is a solid 4 drop that can fit into a few different places. For most decks it wouldn't be the first choice for a spell at the 4 slot but there are still enough slots that it usually makes it in to decks when drafted.
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Golem is a card that is still nowhere near the chopping block in my 540. I love it more than most but it sees play in a good amount of decks. Dropping it with fast mana can just be backbreaking as well as a sweet curve-topper in aggro decks or just a strong play in mana-heavy/midrange green decks. Or it goes well in a pox deck as an additional Nether Void-style effect.
I am years away from a world where I can imagine Lodestone.
Back to the Masticores, I'm getting closer & closer to cutting them. Maybe I should just start with Razormane before I move on to the original/Molten-Tail?
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My personal opinion is that Masticores have become merely fair as the power level shifted upwards around them. In a world filled with easy 2-for-1s, the Masticores barely offer card parity (essentially discard a card to kill a creature) and the mana investment required is very costly on top of the card investment. Their colorless nature has become a weakness - where they were previously strong contenders for the 4-drop slot in a deck, their value has gone down as 4-drops more narrow in their castability but exceedingly more powerful in their effect entered the game.
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The original Masticore is not bad either, but I think he fits more in a heavily powered environment that is looking to add some additional tools to protect control player from early aggro waves speed by mox and stuff. Larger cubes maybe want to add him as well, looking for some variety. However, on this one, the upkeep downside could seems awkward sometimes because, in a control shell where he truly shine, you don't want to be discarding card every single turn. Excellent sideboard card though.
The 5 drop one, for me, is not cube material anymore, even in 720. Maybe at 1K or more.
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With the rise of strong token producing creatures pinging effects are as strong if not stronger than ever.
He can act as a discard outlet, and agaianst certain decks can take over the game by himself.
I dont run him at 450 but I probably should....
Never been a fan of molten tail or razormane. Molten is too contigent on graveyard + mana + hand. Doesn't rectify a bad board state very well... Razormane is dead in too many matchups to justify 5 mana.
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OG Masticore is likely never leaving for me, because I still do value history quite a bit and it's still pretty decent.
Razormane, however, is no longer present but would have a good shot at coming back if I expanded to 630/720+
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Is this card secretly a Sultai tri-brid with all colorless costs?
OG Masticore is great at killing utility dorks (F- You Mother of Runes) and can be annoying to kill because of its regeneration.
Razormane Masticore kills quite a lot of threats and can be very hard to block/kill in combat
The discard for both ranges from being a pain to a key synergy. It's a definite downside but if I'm running the a Masticore I usually have some way to make use of the discard.
Protip- Set something on your library to remember the discard; no discard, no Masticore. I have lost more than a few games by drawing too quickly.
That’s why I said this is a Sultai card, ya? Reanimator, Delve, the need for a pinger, and the presence of card advantage to feed ol’ Nasty Masti are features of the Wedge.
My playgroup enjoys the card because it’s so weird but can be surprisingly effective too, which adds to the shock value.
The real question is: “what is that obscene thing coming out of its mouth!?” (OG version)
I always assumed it was something like the Xenomorph's Inner Jaw, probably has it to make all that masticating it must do a bit easier.