In some combinations, like Boros, the Scars lands will be better than CITP fetches because they are very aggro-focused and the downside is heavily mitigated. A lot of the lands have these interesting conditions, like Izzet Boilerworks being pretty awesome in that particular guild combination compared to the other combinations, but I'm curious as to how you guys rank the land cycles.
If you guys would like to take it even a step further, how would you rank the lands according to each guild combination? If we used 7 fixers in a 720 card cube (6 would likely be enough, but I'm interested in going a little deeper here), beyond the duals, fetches, and shocks, which combination would you run of the other duals for each guild?
If you guys would like to take it even a step further, how would you rank the lands according to each guild combination? If we used 7 fixers in a 720 card cube (6 would likely be enough, but I'm interested in going a little deeper here), beyond the duals, fetches, and shocks, which combination would you run of the other duals for each guild?
If you guys would like to take it even a step further, how would you rank the lands according to each guild combination? If we used 7 fixers in a 720 card cube (6 would likely be enough, but I'm interested in going a little deeper here), beyond the duals, fetches, and shocks, which combination would you run of the other duals for each guild?
I can tell you 6 fixers are not enough at 720, 7 is probably right (although I'm still not convinced the "correct" number is not 8). That said, people have previously discussed the ranking in each color pair here. (Maybe someone should asked a Mod to merge both threads?)
Very helpful! Okay, so 7 is the correct number and possibly 8, even better.
Building on a budget is something very few cubers here have experience with because most of us just want to create the best environment possible.
The 10 fetches are 100% necessary for the best mana fixing available to a cube. If you're only going to play with some or none, I think the budget cubes would be the first place I'd look to see what to play instead of them.
My cube is about as budget as a powered 360 cube can be. The ten fetches are not necessary. They aren't. There is fixing for miles and miles and I still just run the four. Some time soon I expect more people to wake up from the dilusion that they have to run all ten fetches and realize that for certain color combinations other lands are much better. Until then I expect to get plenty of "run all ten fetches, hur durr!"
We suggest running all 10 fetches because they are among the best fixing lands available, and no other reason. There are a lot of things that "aren't necessary" ...but that doesn't mean they're not the best option. It's not necessary to run all 5 Moxes either. Maybe you only own 4 and don't want to use proxies. But that doesn't mean that Mox Ruby isn't better than that Fire Diamond you're using as a placeholder until it arrives.
ABU Duals ≥ Fetchlands >>>>> Shocklands ≥ Colonnade/Tar Pit/Canopy >>>>>> Other Manlands >>>>>>> Everything Else
Pretty often, actually. I think on average the ABU Duals are better, but it's closer than people think. I do however, feel that the gap between Duals and Fetches and all the rest of the lands is pretty big.
- Getting a shuffle
- An additional landfall trigger
- A card in your graveyard (for Deathrite, threshold, Tarmogoyf, YawgWill, etc.)
- A non-zero thinning effect
- Being able to select what sort of land to get (basic instead of nonbasic facing Wasteland, e.g.)
I'm not quite understanding of your 'hurr durr' way of looking at these lands in regards to running all 10. I don't think it's really possible for mana fixing in lands to be too good in Cube for the 2-3c decks without running a disproportionate number of them. Will decks function without access to all 10? Sure. But will they function better with them? I have to say 100% yes.
Also, I guess I'm not sure why you feel the blue ones are the ones to run out of the group and not the others. If anything, the non-blue decks (read: aggro) need the availability of multiple colors on turns 1-2.
If I only could run 20 fixing lands, they would be the ABU duals and fetchlands and it isn't really close.
The best lands are the fetch lands hands down. I'd rank them like this:
1. Fetch Lands
2. ABUR Duals
3. Ravnica Shocks
4. Painlands
5. Filterlands (Not a big fan of these tbh)
6. M10/Innistrad Checklands
Not including the manlands because theyre pretty imbalanced for the colors (Colonnade and Tar Pit are far superior to the rest) and not all 10 are out, same with the Scarlands, all 10 aren't out yet.
I also like the painlands more. I can't speak for him, but producing either color of mana on every turn is really important. There are a ton of amazing 1cc spells in the cube, and I want to have access to them on the first turn.
Exactly what wtwlf123 said. I like being able to plan my land and have the option to produce either color right away and then every turn after as well.
Obviously it changes a bit based on color combination, but my overall ranking looks something like this:
1. ABUR Duals (Underground Sea)
2. Fetches (Polluted Delta)
3. Shocks (Watery Grave)
------- And now to the real discussion part:
4. Manlands (Creeping Tar Pit)
5. CITP Fetches (Bad River)
6. Painlands (Underground River)
7. Scry Lands (Temple of Deceit)
8. Scars Lands (Darkslick Shores)
9. Filters (Sunken Ruins)
10. Bouncelands/multi-Karoos (Dimir Aqueduct)
11. 2010/Innistrad Taplands (Drowned Catacomb)
In some combinations, like Boros, the Scars lands will be better than CITP fetches because they are very aggro-focused and the downside is heavily mitigated. A lot of the lands have these interesting conditions, like Izzet Boilerworks being pretty awesome in that particular guild combination compared to the other combinations, but I'm curious as to how you guys rank the land cycles.
If you guys would like to take it even a step further, how would you rank the lands according to each guild combination? If we used 7 fixers in a 720 card cube (6 would likely be enough, but I'm interested in going a little deeper here), beyond the duals, fetches, and shocks, which combination would you run of the other duals for each guild?
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
I can tell you 6 fixers are not enough at 720, 7 is probably right (although I'm still not convinced the "correct" number is not 8). That said, people have previously discussed the ranking in each color pair here: www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/card-and-archetype-discussion/489112-color-pair-lands. (Maybe someone should ask a Mod to merge both threads?)
edit: apparently I can't link correctly, just copy/paste the URL and it works just fine.
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Very helpful! Okay, so 7 is the correct number and possibly 8, even better.
The link you posted doesn't work.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
For aggro/tempo combinations, Painlands (Battlefield Forge) and Fastlands (Blackcleave Cliffs).
For midrange combinations, Checklands (Woodland Cemetery) and Filter Lands (Fetid Heath).
For control combinations, Mirage Fetches (Flood Plain) and Bouncelands (Dimir Aqueduct).
The Temples (Temple of Mystery) are solid lands for combo/archetype combinations often trying to assemble a particular series of plays.
Obviously smattering in the better land options like Manlands (Celestial Colonnade) and Horizon Canopy first where available.
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Direct link: www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/card-and-archetype-discussion/489112-color-pair-lands
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Flood Plain
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Azorius Chancery
Dimir
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Bad River
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Dimir Aqueduct
Rakdos
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Dragonskull Summit
Gruul
1 Raging Ravine
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Brushland
Orzhov
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Fetid Heath
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Temple of Silence
Golgari
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Twilight Mire
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Temple of Malady
Simic
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Flooded Grove
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Shivan Reef
1 Izzet Boilerworks
Boros
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Temple of Triumph
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My cube is about as budget as a powered 360 cube can be. The ten fetches are not necessary. They aren't. There is fixing for miles and miles and I still just run the four. Some time soon I expect more people to wake up from the dilusion that they have to run all ten fetches and realize that for certain color combinations other lands are much better. Until then I expect to get plenty of "run all ten fetches, hur durr!"
ABU Duals ≥ Fetchlands >>>>> Shocklands ≥ Colonnade/Tar Pit/Canopy >>>>>> Other Manlands >>>>>>> Everything Else
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
- Getting a shuffle
- An additional landfall trigger
- A card in your graveyard (for Deathrite, threshold, Tarmogoyf, YawgWill, etc.)
- A non-zero thinning effect
- Being able to select what sort of land to get (basic instead of nonbasic facing Wasteland, e.g.)
I'm not quite understanding of your 'hurr durr' way of looking at these lands in regards to running all 10. I don't think it's really possible for mana fixing in lands to be too good in Cube for the 2-3c decks without running a disproportionate number of them. Will decks function without access to all 10? Sure. But will they function better with them? I have to say 100% yes.
Also, I guess I'm not sure why you feel the blue ones are the ones to run out of the group and not the others. If anything, the non-blue decks (read: aggro) need the availability of multiple colors on turns 1-2.
If I only could run 20 fixing lands, they would be the ABU duals and fetchlands and it isn't really close.
-AA
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1. Fetch Lands
2. ABUR Duals
3. Ravnica Shocks
4. Painlands
5. Filterlands (Not a big fan of these tbh)
6. M10/Innistrad Checklands
Not including the manlands because theyre pretty imbalanced for the colors (Colonnade and Tar Pit are far superior to the rest) and not all 10 are out, same with the Scarlands, all 10 aren't out yet.
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Why do you consider the painlands better than the checklands (especially in the control combinations)?
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
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My 360 Core Set Cube
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