No swords? In a cube? Outrageous! However, I think I've decided to do so. My primary reasoning is that when I cube, it's more often than not only 2 people drafting. We see few cards, thus making a lot of the options for dealing with a sword unseen in the draft. Too often has a game been won on the back of a sword with protection from the other persons colors (or even one of them). While, yes, this is something that can certain happen in any cube draft, the fact that there are only two of us means you're not playing someone else who doesn't have the sword, and you'll just keep losing to it. It makes for a low interaction game. For similar reasons, we have removed JtMS
Anyone else with an unpowered cube run without swords? Two-player cubing really makes a list hard to balance, that's for sure.
do you winston? i haven't had a problem with swords in my own cube so far. it sounds like you might want to increase the number of answers. balancing in winston is definitely different than balancing for regular drafting.
jace is a different story, i don't have a problem with him personally but straightforward answers to walkers are fewer than those that deal with swords. i could understand taking him out until they print more answers, but i'd miss him too much myself. i'm excluding power to try something new and because the guys i usually draft with aren't fans but my own personal preferences are toward crazy powerful stuff. so jace doesn't bother me at all.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
do you winston? i haven't had a problem with swords in my own cube so far. it sounds like you might want to increase the number of answers. balancing in winston is definitely different than balancing for regular drafting.
jace is a different story, i don't have a problem with him personally but straightforward answers to walkers are fewer than those that deal with swords. i could understand taking him out until they print more answers, but i'd miss him too much myself. i'm excluding power to try something new and because the guys i usually draft with aren't fans but my own personal preferences are toward crazy powerful stuff. so jace doesn't bother me at all.
We really prefer regular drafting. I don't we think we've tried winston, it didn't seem very appealing, though we could try it. We have, however, done rochester, which was ok. Prevented us from knowing what the other was taking in a way, but seemed even more limited in what we opened because it was 4 cards at a time.
Another big problem now is that there is little in the way of good equipment. Jitte has been out for a long time, now the swords. There are only a couple of equipment left, and I don't think anything else is worth using, save a possible loxodon warhammer. I don't really like that situation much more than the swords.
Of note, Mask of Memory is a great source of card advantage and fits nicely as a 3-drop. Not as good as Sword of Fire and Ice, but it doesn't cost 5 to connect with, either. I'd also probably play the Lifestaff over the other Bonesplitter wannabes as an interesting card in the aggro mirror.
I don't use any of the swords in my cube, and couldn't be happier. I don't like cards that just outright hose a particular color, as I don't think it leads to particularly interesting games. That said, green has access to things like Chameleon Colossus, Great Sable Stag, and Thrun, the Last Troll, but I think that's more a necessary evil than anything.
Currently I run Loxodon Warhammer, Bonesplitter, Mortarpod, Grafted Wargear, Sword of Vengeance, Lightning Greaves, Bonehoard, Trusty Machete, Basilisk Collar, and Batterskull.
EDIT: Umezawa's Jitte is out, too. That thing is way more oppressive than any sword could hope to be.
I don't use any of the swords in my cube, and couldn't be happier. I don't like cards that just outright hose a particular color, as I don't think it leads to particularly interesting games. That said, green has access to things like Chameleon Colossus, Great Sable Stag, and Thrun, the Last Troll, but I think that's more a necessary evil than anything.
Currently I run Loxodon Warhammer, Bonesplitter, Mortarpod, Grafted Wargear, Sword of Vengeance, Lightning Greaves, Bonehoard, Trusty Machete, Basilisk Collar, and Batterskull.
EDIT: Umezawa's Jitte is out, too. That thing is way more oppressive than any sword could hope to be.
Do you find stoneforge mystic to be a playable white card with these?
Stoneforge is insane even without busted equipments.
I'm very hesitant to use swords as well. If you're G/U or something and your opponent gets a sword of body and mind basically you MUST have a naturalize effect or something or you just lose. It's kind of like how Jace 3 is oppressive in limited.
Stoneforge is insane even without busted equipments.
I'm very hesitant to use swords as well. If you're G/U or something and your opponent gets a sword of body and mind basically you MUST have a naturalize effect or something or you just lose. It's kind of like how Jace 3 is oppressive in limited.
This isn't true. There are a lot of ways to deal with swords without Disenchant.
1. Race, more difficult with some swords than others.
2. Creature removal, it's better if it's instant speed because you can cast it during combat or if you have to, when your opponent is equipping the creature.
3. Planeswalkers, some of them are very good against swords. Gideon for example kills or makes creatures attack him which don't let them trigger their effects.
4. Icy Manipulator, Ring of Gix, Maze of Ith, Wall of Denial, these cards all deal with swords very nicely.
5. Pyrexian Metamorph their sword and race. This is my favorite way to beat a sword.
Nevertheless you should have at least one artifact destruction effect in each deck you play.
I was playing a RW aggro deck on friday and managed to beat an opponent who played jitte in both games. I had enough removal in R and W to be able to deal with the creature as it was being equipped in both games. The jitte did get a couple of counters once, but it wasn't enough to be able to stop my onslaught, followed by Fireblast for the win.
This isn't true. There are a lot of ways to deal with swords without Disenchant.
1. Race, more difficult with some swords than others.
2. Creature removal, it's better if it's instant speed because you can cast it during combat or if you have to, when your opponent is equipping the creature.
3. Planeswalkers, some of them are very good against swords. Gideon for example kills or makes creatures attack him which don't let them trigger their effects.
4. Icy Manipulator, Ring of Gix, Maze of Ith, Wall of Denial, these cards all deal with swords very nicely.
5. Pyrexian Metamorph their sword and race. This is my favorite way to beat a sword.
Nevertheless you should have at least one artifact destruction effect in each deck you play.
This debate comes up all the time.
Yes, removal exists.
If the sword is protection against the colours of your deck or even just one, then removal won't work on the guy holding the sword. Sometimes you can't rip a non-red creature against sword of war and peace and then die in about two turns.
The point is, swords end the game very fast. Having one or two naturalize effects doesn't necessarily mean you'll have it in your hand when your opponent casts a sword (and if it's something like Kor Sanctifiers, you don't necessarily have 4 mana), either. I've lost plenty of cube games to a sword with a deck with several naturalize effects.
Considering how fast you "just lose" against certain swords, they are pretty oppressive, like Jitte.
That said, you're free to play them if you want. I just don't find them fun or interactive because their ability to steal wins.
Personally, I think it's an ok decision if you are willing to cut cards based on power level reasons. The swords are amongst the highest power level in cube, and at 360 they can be oppressive. From a power level standpoint I wish they were designed without the double protection. I feel like they would be much more balanced. Having all 5 swords in a small cube also gums up the 3-drop slot.
If you cut them, I would replace 2 of the slots with Loxodon Warhammer and Sword of Vengeance. (I miss Loxodon Warhammer something fierce)
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I've been thinking about this as well. The swords dominate more games than any other type of card, including planeswalkers. I always feel antsy if I don't have at least two artifact removal cards & some way to tutor them up. I'm not sure whether to remove them wholesale or to leave one or two in for flavor reasons.
I've been thinking about this as well. The swords dominate more games than any other type of card, including planeswalkers. I always feel antsy if I don't have at least two artifact removal cards & some way to tutor them up. I'm not sure whether to remove them wholesale or to leave one or two in for flavor reasons.
I only run Feast and Famine, and while it's a fantastic card, its not too crazy. I like having only one Sword in...
Swords are great because they reward people for playing Green, Red, and White. Swords give creatures protection, but if they are dominating I think it is because you are either not running enough answers, or not playing them. Especially in 360, it should be really, really easy to get a lot of good artifact removal. Can you list the ones you are running?
Do you find stoneforge mystic to be a playable white card with these?
It's good, but not gamebreakingly awesome. Just finding a Bonesplitter or a Grafted Wargear can be pretty great, and if you have pingers then finding Basilisk Collar can straight up win you the game. I've never seen the Batterskull/Mystic combo assembled yet, though, and I'm very much on the fence about Batterskull's inclusion. I know tutoring up Bonesplitter doesn't sound as sexy as a sword, but I've aimed the power level of my cube a little south of your average unpowered 360. Having access to swords would throw the entire meta way out of whack.
I still don't own a Sword of War and Peace, but as soon as I can get one without having to shell out over $30, it's going in over Loxodon Warhammer. I love all the swords personally, and really, they are just another set of rude cards on top of the already heaving mass of rude cards already in the cube: Jitte, Jace 2, Treachery, Library, Recurring Nightmare, Mind Twist - The list goes on.
Every time someone plays a rude card when when we play cube, our recurring joke is that we say "Come on man! We're just trying to have a fun game here!", but we just suck it up, because for every rude card your opponent has, I'm sure you've got an equally obnoxious card in your deck.
Anyone else with an unpowered cube run without swords? Two-player cubing really makes a list hard to balance, that's for sure.
jace is a different story, i don't have a problem with him personally but straightforward answers to walkers are fewer than those that deal with swords. i could understand taking him out until they print more answers, but i'd miss him too much myself. i'm excluding power to try something new and because the guys i usually draft with aren't fans but my own personal preferences are toward crazy powerful stuff. so jace doesn't bother me at all.
We really prefer regular drafting. I don't we think we've tried winston, it didn't seem very appealing, though we could try it. We have, however, done rochester, which was ok. Prevented us from knowing what the other was taking in a way, but seemed even more limited in what we opened because it was 4 cards at a time.
Another big problem now is that there is little in the way of good equipment. Jitte has been out for a long time, now the swords. There are only a couple of equipment left, and I don't think anything else is worth using, save a possible loxodon warhammer. I don't really like that situation much more than the swords.
I mean, this is a subjective thing and it's perfectly OK to make sure you guys have fun.
If you're not going to use swords, here are some suggested additions in their place (I run the ones above the line):
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Of note, Mask of Memory is a great source of card advantage and fits nicely as a 3-drop. Not as good as Sword of Fire and Ice, but it doesn't cost 5 to connect with, either. I'd also probably play the Lifestaff over the other Bonesplitter wannabes as an interesting card in the aggro mirror.
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Currently I run Loxodon Warhammer, Bonesplitter, Mortarpod, Grafted Wargear, Sword of Vengeance, Lightning Greaves, Bonehoard, Trusty Machete, Basilisk Collar, and Batterskull.
EDIT: Umezawa's Jitte is out, too. That thing is way more oppressive than any sword could hope to be.
Do you find stoneforge mystic to be a playable white card with these?
I'm very hesitant to use swords as well. If you're G/U or something and your opponent gets a sword of body and mind basically you MUST have a naturalize effect or something or you just lose. It's kind of like how Jace 3 is oppressive in limited.
This isn't true. There are a lot of ways to deal with swords without Disenchant.
1. Race, more difficult with some swords than others.
2. Creature removal, it's better if it's instant speed because you can cast it during combat or if you have to, when your opponent is equipping the creature.
3. Planeswalkers, some of them are very good against swords. Gideon for example kills or makes creatures attack him which don't let them trigger their effects.
4. Icy Manipulator, Ring of Gix, Maze of Ith, Wall of Denial, these cards all deal with swords very nicely.
5. Pyrexian Metamorph their sword and race. This is my favorite way to beat a sword.
Nevertheless you should have at least one artifact destruction effect in each deck you play.
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This debate comes up all the time.
Yes, removal exists.
If the sword is protection against the colours of your deck or even just one, then removal won't work on the guy holding the sword. Sometimes you can't rip a non-red creature against sword of war and peace and then die in about two turns.
The point is, swords end the game very fast. Having one or two naturalize effects doesn't necessarily mean you'll have it in your hand when your opponent casts a sword (and if it's something like Kor Sanctifiers, you don't necessarily have 4 mana), either. I've lost plenty of cube games to a sword with a deck with several naturalize effects.
Considering how fast you "just lose" against certain swords, they are pretty oppressive, like Jitte.
That said, you're free to play them if you want. I just don't find them fun or interactive because their ability to steal wins.
If you cut them, I would replace 2 of the slots with Loxodon Warhammer and Sword of Vengeance. (I miss Loxodon Warhammer something fierce)
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I only run Feast and Famine, and while it's a fantastic card, its not too crazy. I like having only one Sword in...
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It's good, but not gamebreakingly awesome. Just finding a Bonesplitter or a Grafted Wargear can be pretty great, and if you have pingers then finding Basilisk Collar can straight up win you the game. I've never seen the Batterskull/Mystic combo assembled yet, though, and I'm very much on the fence about Batterskull's inclusion. I know tutoring up Bonesplitter doesn't sound as sexy as a sword, but I've aimed the power level of my cube a little south of your average unpowered 360. Having access to swords would throw the entire meta way out of whack.
Do you find that less people run green and black because of this being the only sword?
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Every time someone plays a rude card when when we play cube, our recurring joke is that we say "Come on man! We're just trying to have a fun game here!", but we just suck it up, because for every rude card your opponent has, I'm sure you've got an equally obnoxious card in your deck.
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