I may end up doing some kind of EDH module type of thing if the newly done legends are like this (as some of the wedges still seemed meh,) I'm hoping for another Scavenging Ooze type of card as well for cube.
Yah, now that I remember cascade resolves on casting, and not on hitting the battlefield!
Guess I'm just going to have to keep Natural Ordering for Gleancrawler and co. for the time being!
Just finished a 6-man where this card was seeded into the packs. I opened him and drafted a RUG midrange deck around the card. Was 2-0 when our team won, and I managed to cast him twice in my games. The first time he flipped Avalanche Riders and Man-O-War which allowed me to win on the spot . The second time his cascades were much less impressive (Sylvan Library and Edge of Autumn), but his haste ability allowed me to grind the game heavily in my favor. My deck had the possibility of flipping Wurmcoil Engine and Pelakka Wurm for the full 20, but the chances of that happening where certainly low. Overall though, definitely excited to see how it continues to play.
I think this card will almost always be worth it if you have cast it. With two (!) free spells and the haste abillity it will almost always be a good deal.
The problem as always with these kind of cards is that they are sub par when cheated into play, and that in a lot of games you will be dead before they can be cast. Or when you cast it you have your back against the wall and have to defend.
Sure looks like a fun card to play though. I am very tempted even though I fear it will not be consistent enough to merit its place on pure power only. Our cube is made by and for Spikes, so our internal Timmies tend to be outvoted on cases like this.
Yea, I agree that he would be better in my cube circa 2-3 years ago when Vivids, Shards-lands, and many more control-oriented cards were in place, but there is still usually 1-2 decks at a 6 man and 2-3 decks at an 8 man that fall under having the possibility of having the ability to draft around a card like this for my cube. It appeals to the same kind of people as Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker from what I've seen. There are just so many sweet possibilities available with this card. Hitting a Wildfire effect or Upheaval is just insane. My group was brainstorming the way to maximize the damage with this card last night and came up with Avenger of Zendikar/Primeval Titan, swing for 40-50ish damage.
Also, when I hit the Edge of Autumn and the Sylvan Library, I wasn't able to even find a land with the Edge because I was above four already . Still, the Sylvan Library probably won me the game overall though as it was a giant grind-fest for numerous turns after that.
My group was brainstorming the way to maximize the damage with this card last night and came up with Avenger of Zendikar/Primeval Titan, swing for 40-50ish damage.
I run neither of those, but they surely combine perfectly with Maelstrom Wanderer. The Titan is great in a deck with three colored eight mana spells anyway. Fix + ramp into the Wanderer if he hits earlier and trampling haster if he gets cascaded into. Those two guys make a great team.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
bolas has a similarly difficult cost but i think he is much more of a sure thing. you know what you're getting and it's basically always a good deal.
Yes, he is surely not as random and always awesome if you cast him. No, the cost is not similarly difficult: Not being green and having one of its three colors appear two times in the mana cost makes him much harder to find a deck for and to cast him.
I just want to point out that there is no real reason why cheap cascade cards should be better than more expensive ones. obviously wizards decided that the "fair" three drops would have virtually no effect on their own, and the power levels of every one look like they were thrown at a dartboard blindfolded. It's really card by card.
I think cascade "costs" about a mana and a half to get on cards that are good enough to be cubed but not so good that it is broken. Look at how much better enlisted wurm would have to be to become an auto include in traditional cubes and you'll get my point. Vigilance? Probably not enough. Vigilance trample? Maybe. But at that point the card is almost worth about 4.5 mana without cascade (5 mana is too high, but 4 mana would be godlike). Bloodbraid elf without cascade would cost about JUST under 1GR (as evidenced by rip clan crasher), since GR would be too good (that card would be bananas. mmm.)
Violent outburst? that ability costs... less than a green mana without cascade, so it sucks. Ardent light (i think) costs about W (akrasan squire without vulnerability but without 2 damage) so the card is underpar but not 100% awful. Maelstrom nexus would require you to cast about 3 or 4 cards to pay for itself (using this metric), not even counting the time you wasted or the fact that it is wubrg, so it sucked. Bituminous blast's effect costs about 2 mana, so it is usually a tad overcosted in a vacuum, but the colors are perfect for cascade. You could so often hit a card that is a natural 2 for 1 in Jund/a good cube home it was practically a 3 for 1 85/50% (respectively) of the time thanks to the fortuitous rakdos alignment it was gifted with, which is insanity. And so on...
I hope you can at least partially agree.
Now
Green and blue are the worst colors for cascade, period. A green one drop is waaaaay worse than a red one since at least that can be a bolt or goblin guide and effect the board right now. As previously mentioned, counterspells are obvious blanks and I certainly don't want to hit a ponder with this most days.
Not for 8 mana, sirs and madams.
What about green and blue having better bombs, you say? How many bombs are you running? Enough to matter when conversing about what one is going to cascade into? I hope not. Your Sphinx of jwar isle is not lining up well statistically against the signet, sakura tribe elder, and into the roil you are playing to get there.
Which brings up an interesting point. Big spells exist in decks where you want to live and accelerate mana (most times) Hitting a mind stone or a kodama's reach or even an all star like ray of command with even one cascade turns this 8 mana guy into not worth Eight mana. Using my metric, I'd be paying for 5 mana 7/5 haste without cascade which is nothing more than an underwhelming, but rather large dork with no future outside of a peasant cube. Oh but he can't even go there because of the ridiculous color requirements.
The effect helps his potential compatriots though, which makes him a bit better obviously. if you hit a kavu and a blastoderm I think you win every time (but you usually win games where you play those two anyway, but I digress)
So what we are left with is a card that requires a smattering of luck, 3 colors, and 8 mana. I want to say it could get there, but it is just wildly inconsistent without some mystical/worldly tutor. Both cascades have to be business for this to cut it, or at least one has to be a wurmcoil engine. Even for me that's just too much variance.
I just want to point out that there is no real reason why cheap cascade cards should be better than more expensive ones.
That's not true at all. Lower CMC cascade cards hit a more precise set of targets, which is why they're considered better by some people. Having a higher or lower CMC for cascade isn't strictly better in either case. There are always instances where you may want one or the other.
You can cast them sooner as well. This is not a negligible quality.
Also:
Hitting a mind stone or a kodama's reach or even an all star like ray of command with even one cascade turns this 8 mana guy into not worth Eight mana.
Who plays Ray of Command? Is this sarcasm? I must be missing something.
Yeah, I run a common cube and I know it rocks the house there, but the entire context of that post was traditional cubes. I presumed it was a pet card.
I'm bumping this topic for two reasons. One, I want to know if people have any new opinions on Maelstrom Wanderer now that almost 6 months have passed since its spoiling. Two, new spoilers (unofficial) are coming in (See Rumor Mill). I only see one of interest but it could be a doozy:
Dude :symu::symb:
Cascade
2/2
Name & creature type is still unconfirmed. Thoughts? Is UB too tight? Still too unreliable? Not what a typical UB deck wants to be doing? It's narrow but UB does have quality targets and narrow is usually better for cascade (as already discussed in this very topic).
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
upheaval would be bedonkers. I suppose is to hit running creatures and they'd all have haste. imagine runner runner titans. that would be silly. Still, prob need a multicolor heavy cube.
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I may end up doing some kind of EDH module type of thing if the newly done legends are like this (as some of the wedges still seemed meh,) I'm hoping for another Scavenging Ooze type of card as well for cube.
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That's what Natural Order is for!
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I hadn't noticed because of the blue mana - but this card really is just bloodbraid elf turned up to 11. They should have made it an elf!
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Not if you want the double cascade.
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Yah, now that I remember cascade resolves on casting, and not on hitting the battlefield!
Guess I'm just going to have to keep Natural Ordering for Gleancrawler and co. for the time being!
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Bah! It only drew you two cards and gave you four mana back? What a letdown!
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
The problem as always with these kind of cards is that they are sub par when cheated into play, and that in a lot of games you will be dead before they can be cast. Or when you cast it you have your back against the wall and have to defend.
Sure looks like a fun card to play though. I am very tempted even though I fear it will not be consistent enough to merit its place on pure power only. Our cube is made by and for Spikes, so our internal Timmies tend to be outvoted on cases like this.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
He is in my three favorite Wildfire colors though... Maelstrom Wanderer into Wildfire or Destructive Force? Sounds like a plan!
Edit: Or into Upheaval!
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
I could just imagine the shennanigans you can build around with this guy. Upheaval would be the sickest thing to ever cascade into!
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Yea, I agree that he would be better in my cube circa 2-3 years ago when Vivids, Shards-lands, and many more control-oriented cards were in place, but there is still usually 1-2 decks at a 6 man and 2-3 decks at an 8 man that fall under having the possibility of having the ability to draft around a card like this for my cube. It appeals to the same kind of people as Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker from what I've seen. There are just so many sweet possibilities available with this card. Hitting a Wildfire effect or Upheaval is just insane. My group was brainstorming the way to maximize the damage with this card last night and came up with Avenger of Zendikar/Primeval Titan, swing for 40-50ish damage.
Also, when I hit the Edge of Autumn and the Sylvan Library, I wasn't able to even find a land with the Edge because I was above four already
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(list is always current)
Bolas hasn't seen much play lately. A cost that includes CDDE is much harder to get going than one that includes CDG.
I run neither of those, but they surely combine perfectly with Maelstrom Wanderer. The Titan is great in a deck with three colored eight mana spells anyway. Fix + ramp into the Wanderer if he hits earlier and trampling haster if he gets cascaded into. Those two guys make a great team.
Argh, haven't thought about that. Than it really was a bad cascade.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Yes, he is surely not as random and always awesome if you cast him. No, the cost is not similarly difficult: Not being green and having one of its three colors appear two times in the mana cost makes him much harder to find a deck for and to cast him.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
I think cascade "costs" about a mana and a half to get on cards that are good enough to be cubed but not so good that it is broken. Look at how much better enlisted wurm would have to be to become an auto include in traditional cubes and you'll get my point. Vigilance? Probably not enough. Vigilance trample? Maybe. But at that point the card is almost worth about 4.5 mana without cascade (5 mana is too high, but 4 mana would be godlike). Bloodbraid elf without cascade would cost about JUST under 1GR (as evidenced by rip clan crasher), since GR would be too good (that card would be bananas. mmm.)
Violent outburst? that ability costs... less than a green mana without cascade, so it sucks. Ardent light (i think) costs about W (akrasan squire without vulnerability but without 2 damage) so the card is underpar but not 100% awful. Maelstrom nexus would require you to cast about 3 or 4 cards to pay for itself (using this metric), not even counting the time you wasted or the fact that it is wubrg, so it sucked. Bituminous blast's effect costs about 2 mana, so it is usually a tad overcosted in a vacuum, but the colors are perfect for cascade. You could so often hit a card that is a natural 2 for 1 in Jund/a good cube home it was practically a 3 for 1 85/50% (respectively) of the time thanks to the fortuitous rakdos alignment it was gifted with, which is insanity. And so on...
I hope you can at least partially agree.
Now
Green and blue are the worst colors for cascade, period. A green one drop is waaaaay worse than a red one since at least that can be a bolt or goblin guide and effect the board right now. As previously mentioned, counterspells are obvious blanks and I certainly don't want to hit a ponder with this most days.
Not for 8 mana, sirs and madams.
What about green and blue having better bombs, you say? How many bombs are you running? Enough to matter when conversing about what one is going to cascade into? I hope not. Your Sphinx of jwar isle is not lining up well statistically against the signet, sakura tribe elder, and into the roil you are playing to get there.
Which brings up an interesting point. Big spells exist in decks where you want to live and accelerate mana (most times) Hitting a mind stone or a kodama's reach or even an all star like ray of command with even one cascade turns this 8 mana guy into not worth Eight mana. Using my metric, I'd be paying for 5 mana 7/5 haste without cascade which is nothing more than an underwhelming, but rather large dork with no future outside of a peasant cube. Oh but he can't even go there because of the ridiculous color requirements.
The effect helps his potential compatriots though, which makes him a bit better obviously. if you hit a kavu and a blastoderm I think you win every time (but you usually win games where you play those two anyway, but I digress)
So what we are left with is a card that requires a smattering of luck, 3 colors, and 8 mana. I want to say it could get there, but it is just wildly inconsistent without some mystical/worldly tutor. Both cascades have to be business for this to cut it, or at least one has to be a wurmcoil engine. Even for me that's just too much variance.
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That's not true at all. Lower CMC cascade cards hit a more precise set of targets, which is why they're considered better by some people. Having a higher or lower CMC for cascade isn't strictly better in either case. There are always instances where you may want one or the other.
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Who plays Ray of Command? Is this sarcasm? I must be missing something.
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Dude :symu::symb:
Cascade
2/2
Name & creature type is still unconfirmed. Thoughts? Is UB too tight? Still too unreliable? Not what a typical UB deck wants to be doing? It's narrow but UB does have quality targets and narrow is usually better for cascade (as already discussed in this very topic).
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