MTG Salvation

I might give Overlord a try. I like to support NO and Reanimator. Sometimes its hard to get NO targets, as the ramp decks will swipe Woodfall Primus

Quote from dschumm

Anyone tried Reaper King? It is not the best super fatty but it is the only thing I can find that can be had with tinker, natural order, reanimate, and ramp. Its a good size, and gets value if it dies even if you cheat it in. And as a bonus goes into 5-color control decks like a charm.

It doesn't get value if it dies. It only lets you destroy a permanent when "another scarecrow" comes into play, not when itself comes into play.

Quote from Juju

It doesn't get value if it dies. It only lets you destroy a permanent when "another scarecrow" comes into play, not when itself comes into play.

Oh well silly me. Maybe someday we will get a big green artifact creature.

Quote from eidolon232

I don't like the idea to add very narrow cards to the cube to make mediocre cards playable and good cards broken.

The average number of 7+ mana creatures / player are
1.00 in a 360 cards cube
0.94 in a 450 cards cube
1.22 in a 540 cards cube
1.36 in a 630 cards cube
1.34 in a 720 cards cube

94% of the cubes run at least 2 cards out of Natural Order, Reanimate and Tinker.

Maybe I'm misreading this data. I'm reading this as a 360 list would have ~8 7+ mana creatures, while a 720 list would only have ~9-10. Is that right? My current list at 555 contains ten 7+ guys, eleven if you count Desolation Angel, and I still feel like it can sometimes be tough to find targets for ramp/reanimator/Tinker decks.

I only run ten at 500 (11 players max):

Myr Battlesphere
Sundering Titan
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Griselbrand
Hornet Queen
Craterhoof Behemoth
Woodfall Primus
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Greater Gargadon
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

It can sometimes be hard to get the target you want, but not really too hard to get a target. My cube is also meant to be leaner and faster, so I've been cutting big guys. This is about the lowest I'd go at this size.

Sheoldred is the only one I'm considering cutting, because most players will play other guys over her. I don't want to, and I don't think I will, however. She plays nice with these kinds of strategies. Would Hellkite Overlord be better on average? (Or Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, which I wanted to run but it doesn't go in very many decks and is largely replaceable.)

So it seems I do need to add some more beef. I'm only planning on adding two to start out and see where that goes. The 6cc dudes are nice because they double as finishers that are easily cast on a normal curve and fatties that are fun to cheat into play. Tinker for Wurmcoil is still pretty good.

We've been playing Sheoldred for a while now and she's been pretty good for us. She fails the Terminate test, but passes the Vindicate test. There are times when she's a very expensive Edict effect. If she stays around for more than a couple of turns, though, she'll likely win you the game. I'm currently running her over Griselbrand. If adding two more fatties still feels like not enough, I'll probably find room to add Griselbrand in addition to Sheoldred.

another +1 for Sheoldred

Yeah, we really liked Sheoldred when I was at 450. Griselbrand was flashy but 8 is a lot of mana and quad black was pretty punishing when I'm greedy and often splash a 3rd colour.

Played this deck tonight off of a pick 2 Sneak Attack. Worked great because I was able to combo off of the Exhume / Animated Dead with Entomb, have instant speed threats with Sneak Attack, or rely on my mana rocks for ramp if necessary. Was a blast to play.

Sheoldred was MVP and my prime reanimator target. Myr Battlesphere, Obzedat, and Gargadon did fine in a pinch if I didn't need the other ETB effects.

I'm such a huge fan of super fatty strategies - reanimator, sneak attack, ramp, NO. I support all of them in my cube.

You guys are making me want to play Hellkite Overlord now. I think I have a foil one too. Hmm....

Quote from depr1ve »

I've found Inkwell Leviathan to be very overrated. It's more difficult to hardcast than even cards like Griselbrand, and it's much less impressive once it's on the table. If you're cheating it into play somehow, you'd probably do just as well or better with almost any other card mentioned itt.

After losing 4 games in a row to Tinker into Inkwell Leviathan on turn 2 or 3, I have decided to cut Inkwell from my cube. Wondering if anyone else has experienced such an unfun situation repeatedly and cut a card as a result?

I expect that with Tinker, which is why I love it. Draft more Diabolic Edict and such.

Cheers,
rant

There's my fatties. They're all there for particular reasons and are not really suppose to be played only on a normal curve, except maybe Angel of Serenity that is another sweeper/finisher for control deck and that I will exclude from this analysis for this reason. All the other fit in one or more specific shell and let's see how I classified their utility.

White :
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Iona, Shield of Emeria.

Elesh Norn is either a great reanimation or ramp target. Boost your board when on play and kills a lot of stuff ETB. She could be also play on curve in a creature deck. Iona, Shield of Emeria is a reanimation and Show and Tell target only but that rewards you a lot for doing it. Could game break in many matchup.

Blue :
Palinchron
Inkwell Leviathan

Palinchron is more like a combo enabler and I dont recommended it for any other strategy. Storm is his best friend. It could also take a spot in a control deck as a finisher if you really need to. But ramp into it just for the mean of getting a fatty on the board quick is not really a good idea since you are loosing half its power by paying its mana cost with any other stuff than lands. Inkwell Leviathan for his part is versatile. Could reward you for ramping into it and fits well in a Reanimation/Tinker/Show and Tell kind of deck.

Black :
Griselbrand

Griselbrand is good card either for reanimation or Show and Tell strategies. Could also works as a engine for storm purposes. A really great card for cube and his addition should be considered for anyone who wants to be doing those kind of stuff.

Red :

I've none. Maybe Bogardan Hellkite could be a thing in someway, but I've already had it for a while and it didn't answered really well. Ends up being a last pick more than often.

Green :
Avenger of Zendikar
Hornet Queen
Craterhoof Behemoth
Terastodon
Woodfall Primus

All of them are great target for ramp, reanimation or Natual Order gameplan. I would say that the Avenger is a bit more build for ramp, but he can also did some serious damage while reanimate or glitch into play with NO as well. I'm talking by experience.

Multi :
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Progenitus

Sphinx is another target for Tinker but his real power comes from the fact that he can be also be cast on curve in a control/midrange deck to get back in the game against agressive stand. Progenitus is a Natural Order or Show and Tell ideal target only, but what a one! Do the same kind of work than Iona to game break opponent.

Colorless :
Myr Battlesphere
Sundering Titan
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Blightsteel Colossus

While Myr Battlesphere is the more versatile of them, all the others are great for ramp and even more for the Channel's glitch. Sungering Titan and Blightsteel Colossus work well and reward you with Tinker/Show and Tell as well. I dont't play Emrakul due to his OP factor with Channel and stuff.

Quote from Ennex »

Quote from Ebase131 »

Wondering if anyone else has experienced such an unfun situation repeatedly and cut a card as a result?

Channel into Blightsteel Colossus caused a wide demand for its extradition among my playgroup. But as rant said, Edicts can contradict the cheaters pretty well.

I'd agree if A) you saw even ONE edict guaranteed every time you drafted and B) you were lucky enough to draft it and C) be playing black or able to splash it into your deck and D) have it in your starting hand.

Even for a 450 sized cube which we normally draft, it is no guarantee we see edicts every time. I suppose I have a deeper fundamental hatred for shroud type effects as well, especially in this scenario where it basically says "here's a giant creature that you can't target and need to either wipe the board or have a way to deal it 11 damage with creatures by turn 5 without dying, have fun! He also has trample and islandwalk, so hope you aren't playing blue or have a dual land with blue in it!"

It's not just Edicts. There are a lot of answers to it. And your opponent has to have the Tinker and an artifact, and needs both to resolve. They can luck into an early Tinker, and you can luck into an answer. It's not problematic enough to warrant bannings. If your playgroup hates it, cut it. But I think it's unnecessary.

If your opponent can have a mana rock and tinker, why can't you have a mana rock and a wrath? Or a Duress? Or an Edict? Or your own insane line? There are a lot of powerful cards in the cube. It's okay to have them be good.

Another card that often foils the early fatty and hasn't been mentioned yet: Balance.Yeah, it's hard to win when your opponent Tinkers into SotSW or Inkwell on turn 1-3 but it's not an auto scoop.

Cheers,
rant

People doesn't think about it sometimes, but Eldrazis and Colossus could also been responsed by a Oblivion Ring, Banishing Light, Nekrataal, Bone Shredder or stuff like.

I don't run blight steel or Sphinx of the steel wind due to their low level of interaction via tinker/show tell vs some decks.

Green or red are drawing dead vs both of these creatures and can't race them either...
I like all decks to have some way of interacting with each other even if it's narrow.

The difference between having 1 or 0 edicts is huge psychologically when facing an inkwell.
You have to clear their board so edict is a live draw, and you get the excitement of sweating a few draw steps for the answer. Much more fun than just scooping on the spot

It's a matter of personal preference of gameplay.

Yeah Sphinx of the Steel Wind can be pretty nasty. But that's why I like it

What do you do when, two drafts in a row, you have players complain about their Natural Order/Eureka deck with Avenger of Zendikar, Ulamog, Aether Searcher naming the former, and Primeval Titan not having enough targets? Because my initial response is kinda just, "Try to suck less." One even had the gall to suggest that supporting Eureka/NO/S&T required both Emrakul and Progenitus in the Cube.

I frequently have issues like this with my playgroup, where players are so used to the MODO Cube that they'd rather have cards that are unplayable in other decks if it means they don't have to think to win on turn 1. How do you impart the wisdom that cards that are good in only one deck are bad while simultaneously catering to their desires for Fatties (while I still feel they just made mistakes either in drafting or deck construction)?

That's a target every ten cards, with added redundancy seeing as Aether Searcher can get one himself. "Try to suck less" seems appropriate, here. Or draft more tutors? NO/Eurueka/SnT is very much alive here, and we don't run Emrakul, or Progenitus, or Ulamog, or Kozilek... You can have cards that are only good in one deck, but I think it's best to minimise those where possible. In those decks you generally want a ramp/reanimation plan B, so build accordingly.