I would play Chaos Orb with its Oracle wording, along with a gentlemen's agreement - Play like you normally would, don't make stupid little piles, don't try to hack it, and in general don't try to make the card un-fun. So in other words, only with a small group of close knit friends.
This is exactly how we play the Orb. I tend to group my lands in overlapping threes, which makes for quite a juicy target. Attached equipment is usually placed with the equipped creature which is also good to go for. I can see the Orb getting boring after a while, but it's fun for the moment.
The best way I've seen to flip to Orb is to grasp it by opposing corners and roll your thumb relative to your forefinger to spin it in the air. It tends not to fly all over the place. With good sleeves it certainly helps add weight to the flip.
So it spins on a diagonal axis, yes? That's the best way I've found too.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I run it as vindicate most of the time, there are a couple other cubes I play in and one in particular (TSG's) runs it as worded.
There's some interesting tension between the two mechanics:
If you run it as worded:
- People who are unfamiliar with the card tend to avoid it like the plague, and people who are practiced with the card snatch it up.
- Corollary: People who are practiced with the card are actually incredibly precise with it, so there isn't much tension (like maybe 1 out of 10 attempts they'll miss)
- Corollary: People who have invested practice into the dexterity mechanic LOVE the card.
- Corollary: People who are not practiced with the card HATE when it's used against them intensely (not random enough), AND they dislike it if they control the flip because it's "too random".
If you run it as a vindicate:
- people who have invested practice in the dex mechanic complain that they can't take advantage of it.
- they still pick it, because it's good
- people who don't know how to flip it still play with it.
End of the day: You can play with a card that makes some players happy, and other players REALLY unhappy, or you can play with a card that makes all players relatively happy. It's perfectly acceptable to do either, you just need to know your audience.
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i made people flip it and once it was announced there was no moving of cards in play. so much more fun this way, once had it hit 4 lands for the one sided geddon
You can arrange your cards any time before the Orb is put onto the battlefield, but not after. In general, you should not stack cards or put them in places where your opponent can't read the names of all of them or count them. This is recommended good gaming practice.
Opponent casts Chaos Orb
Me: I have a response, I'm thinking of countering that. (moves cards). It resolves.
i made people flip it and once it was announced there was no moving of cards in play. so much more fun this way, once had it hit 4 lands for the one sided geddon
You're allowed to rearrange your cards when it's on the stack.
not with our rules, allowing that seems to be against the intention of the card. We do allow you to place your cards however you would like so if you know there is a chaos orb in the draft you can spread them out however allowing movement while on the stack seems just the same as movement upon activation so our rule is no movement ovet the 45-90 degree for tapping cards once the orb is public information (ie. enlightened tutored for, announced as a spell, or regrowthed) This rule seems to allow the orb to be played as the designers intended
not with our rules, allowing that seems to be against the intention of the card. We do allow you to place your cards however you would like so if you know there is a chaos orb in the draft you can spread them out however allowing movement while on the stack seems just the same as movement upon activation so our rule is no movement ovet the 45-90 degree for tapping cards once the orb is public information (ie. enlightened tutored for, announced as a spell, or regrowthed) This rule seems to allow the orb to be played as the designers intended
It was intended for you to be able to move your cards around. Why wouldn't you be? You can move your cards whenever you like, and you've always been able to do that. The reason the oracle text prevents moving the cards around after it's on the board is there so people can't cheat the Orb's caster out of hitting cards while moving them when the Orb is in the air. The oracle text actually preserves the intent of the card.
Caster - I play chaos orb.
Opponent - Can I move my cards before it resolves?
Caster: Yep, just not after it's on the board
Opponent: Cool, in response I'll move my permanents. (moves them)
Caster - Cool. chaos orb resolves?
Opponent - yep!
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Has anyone played with Chaos Orb? What are your thoughts?
I know it's considered to be an "un" card, but I'd like to include it anyway for nostalgia reasons (plus it wasn't intended to be "un"). Although, I do worry that it would be overpowered.
I've already put in Falling Star, but haven't played with it yet. Seems like an appropriate power level, as you'd hope to hit two creatures with it.
For both of these cards, the rule I'd impose on how the board should look would be "have your cards arranged like a reasonable human being would arrange them."
I highly dislike mechanics that physically change how you handle your cards. They suddenly make you care about a completely different type of behaviour during game play that has nothing to do with the game iteself.
Miracle - Don't just draw your cards, pick them up and look at it first.
DFC - Need to be taken out of the sleeve during game play. (Can be mitigated by having "night side tokens".)
Dexterity/throw effects - Change how you arrange your cards on the table.
Personally, I wouldn't include any of these, unless their game play far outweighs the baggage. Some of the DFCs have really cool effects, so I include them (with the back side token workaround). Mircacle just makes the cards cheaper which is boring, swingy and often not even worth the hassle. The throwing cards aren't worth it either, imo. A colorless Vindicate is powerful, but nothing special. Why are players suddenly using twice as much table space when playing? Oh, right, someone has Chaos Orb in his deck...
If I played it I would force the receiving player to put his cards, so they all touched atleast one other card. That way you don't have the management hassle, as you could just do this while the ability is on the stack.
With the current rules, borderline situations occur because how would you tap your permanents without rearranging them? Or when you block it makes it easier when move your creatures to the creatures they block, and so forth.
If I played it I would force the receiving player to put his cards, so they all touched atleast one other card. That way you don't have the management hassle, as you could just do this while the ability is on the stack.
What? This isn't allowed. On the contrary, a player can move his permanents so that they are > a card's diagonal length apart. You can't tell someone to mash all their stuff together
I don't play it because I don't like the hassle. It's the only card that would require me to run on a huge table, and 'flip' a card. It's as simple as that. Otherwise, every time someone lucked out and killed all my lands on T3, I would punch my cube right in the face.
One big reason to allow people to move their cards while it's on the stack is that the caster gets to separate his cards before he casts chaos orb, shouldn't the other players be allowed to too? My friend runs chaos orb in his cube and has a "houseish" rule with it. That is, he requires his cards to be on a playmat at all time, regardless of gamestate.
One big reason to allow people to move their cards while it's on the stack is that the caster gets to separate his cards before he casts chaos orb, shouldn't the other players be allowed to too? My friend runs chaos orb in his cube and has a "houseish" rule with it. That is, he requires his cards to be on a playmat at all time, regardless of gamestate.
This is a pretty good rule, as the area is set in stone.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
The oracle ruling allows you to rearrange your cards, so I don't see how that's any different. You can always move your cards when the Orb is announced.
Otherwise, every time someone lucked out and killed all my lands on T3, I would punch my cube right in the face.
...is what I'm worried about. Currently my cube is unpowered and Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Mana Vault are banned. I'd love to use the old-school flipping mechanic but I don't want it to ruin games.
Another consideration is that (while I don't have a cube myself, but I'm looking into creating one) these cards are by definition limiting for the physically handicapped. I've played with people with muscular dystrophy before, who've had trouble even shuffling their decks without assistance, and I know none of them would be able to "precisely" flip a card onto the table. Either way you slice it, without errata it's always going to feel awful for the guy who has trouble executing a dexterity maneuver whether you force him to flip it or "ok, it's a Vindicate, but just for you."
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
Thankfully this is an expensive question I'll never have to answer, lol! The list of big $$ cards I'll have to get before this is long. For those who have it in your cube with changes, do you have a reminder in your sleeve or does everyone in the group know from experience?
Thankfully this is an expensive question I'll never have to answer, lol! The list of big $$ cards I'll have to get before this is long.
My Orb is Collectors' Edition, which are relatively inexpensive. I traded for a complete set and tried out a number of cards including Chaos Orb. It has stayed in the cube because we find it fun, it is fairly powerful, and it doesn't cause any arguments or petty behaviour.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
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This is exactly how we play the Orb. I tend to group my lands in overlapping threes, which makes for quite a juicy target. Attached equipment is usually placed with the equipped creature which is also good to go for. I can see the Orb getting boring after a while, but it's fun for the moment.
So it spins on a diagonal axis, yes? That's the best way I've found too.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I run it as vindicate most of the time, there are a couple other cubes I play in and one in particular (TSG's) runs it as worded.
There's some interesting tension between the two mechanics:
If you run it as worded:
- People who are unfamiliar with the card tend to avoid it like the plague, and people who are practiced with the card snatch it up.
- Corollary: People who are practiced with the card are actually incredibly precise with it, so there isn't much tension (like maybe 1 out of 10 attempts they'll miss)
- Corollary: People who have invested practice into the dexterity mechanic LOVE the card.
- Corollary: People who are not practiced with the card HATE when it's used against them intensely (not random enough), AND they dislike it if they control the flip because it's "too random".
If you run it as a vindicate:
- people who have invested practice in the dex mechanic complain that they can't take advantage of it.
- they still pick it, because it's good
- people who don't know how to flip it still play with it.
End of the day: You can play with a card that makes some players happy, and other players REALLY unhappy, or you can play with a card that makes all players relatively happy. It's perfectly acceptable to do either, you just need to know your audience.
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Opponent casts Chaos Orb
Me: I have a response, I'm thinking of countering that. (moves cards). It resolves.
You're allowed to rearrange your cards when it's on the stack.
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The first page of my Cube list also includes my cube workbook for excel, feel free to look at and use it if you would like to.
It was intended for you to be able to move your cards around. Why wouldn't you be? You can move your cards whenever you like, and you've always been able to do that. The reason the oracle text prevents moving the cards around after it's on the board is there so people can't cheat the Orb's caster out of hitting cards while moving them when the Orb is in the air. The oracle text actually preserves the intent of the card.
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Caster - I play chaos orb.
Opponent - Can I move my cards before it resolves?
Caster: Yep, just not after it's on the board
Opponent: Cool, in response I'll move my permanents. (moves them)
Caster - Cool. chaos orb resolves?
Opponent - yep!
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http://somnovore.deviantart.com/
-----------------------------------------
My 630 Card Powered Cube
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I know it's considered to be an "un" card, but I'd like to include it anyway for nostalgia reasons (plus it wasn't intended to be "un"). Although, I do worry that it would be overpowered.
I've already put in Falling Star, but haven't played with it yet. Seems like an appropriate power level, as you'd hope to hit two creatures with it.
For both of these cards, the rule I'd impose on how the board should look would be "have your cards arranged like a reasonable human being would arrange them."
Miracle - Don't just draw your cards, pick them up and look at it first.
DFC - Need to be taken out of the sleeve during game play. (Can be mitigated by having "night side tokens".)
Dexterity/throw effects - Change how you arrange your cards on the table.
Personally, I wouldn't include any of these, unless their game play far outweighs the baggage. Some of the DFCs have really cool effects, so I include them (with the back side token workaround). Mircacle just makes the cards cheaper which is boring, swingy and often not even worth the hassle. The throwing cards aren't worth it either, imo. A colorless Vindicate is powerful, but nothing special. Why are players suddenly using twice as much table space when playing? Oh, right, someone has Chaos Orb in his deck...
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
With the current rules, borderline situations occur because how would you tap your permanents without rearranging them? Or when you block it makes it easier when move your creatures to the creatures they block, and so forth.
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What? This isn't allowed. On the contrary, a player can move his permanents so that they are > a card's diagonal length apart. You can't tell someone to mash all their stuff together
I don't play it because I don't like the hassle. It's the only card that would require me to run on a huge table, and 'flip' a card. It's as simple as that. Otherwise, every time someone lucked out and killed all my lands on T3, I would punch my cube right in the face.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
This is a pretty good rule, as the area is set in stone.
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...is what I'm worried about. Currently my cube is unpowered and Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Mana Vault are banned. I'd love to use the old-school flipping mechanic but I don't want it to ruin games.
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-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
Play cards with Oracle wording. Otherwise, you're not playing Magic: The Gathering, you're playing Magic: The Homebrew
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My Orb is Collectors' Edition, which are relatively inexpensive. I traded for a complete set and tried out a number of cards including Chaos Orb. It has stayed in the cube because we find it fun, it is fairly powerful, and it doesn't cause any arguments or petty behaviour.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass