i've played it both ways. Just a matter of deciding what makes your players happy. Usually run it as a colourless vindicate, but when I feel like spicing it up, I run it as intended. Much fun is had, but that fun runs out quickly =P.
I am most likely going to cut it from the cube, because so many good artifacts have been printed lately, and its just not needed anymore.
The oracle ruling allows you to rearrange your cards, so I don't see how that's any different. You can always move your cards when the Orb is announced.
Yeah.
I've played it as a colourless vindicate and it doesn't seem overpowered that way. It does feel like an UN card though.
That seems a little truer to the card's intent than the colourless Vindicate, and much more fun.
And it's still far better than Chaos Orb actually is.
Chaos Orb can miss. Chaos Orb can hit your own cards. No matter how practiced you are at the flip, it's still random. And it's supposed to be. It's a Chaos Orb. Chaotic things should happen when it's played. Playing it as a colorless Vindicate is no better than making up a brand new card out of nowhere. Because that's not what Chaos Orb does.
And it's still far better than Chaos Orb actually is.
Chaos Orb can miss. Chaos Orb can hit your own cards. No matter how practiced you are at the flip, it's still random. And it's supposed to be. It's a Chaos Orb. Chaotic things should happen when it's played. Playing it as a colorless Vindicate is no better than making up a brand new card out of nowhere. Because that's not what Chaos Orb does.
This is simply not true. With a little practice your Orb will hit what you want it to over 90% of the times - that's talking from experience. You can call that 'random', put saying it's far worse than 'destroy a random permanent target player controls' is ludicrous.
This is simply not true. With a little practice your Orb will hit what you want it to over 90% of the times - that's talking from experience. You can call that 'random', put saying it's far worse than 'destroy a random permanent target player controls' is ludicrous.
Until the one time it lands on a corner and rolls onto your own cards. Which it can do on rare occasions.
The point is that if the effect isn't random, it's not Chaos Orb. If the effect can't miss, it's not Chaos Orb. If it can't backfire, its not Chaos Orb. Basically, if you change the wording on the card, you're playing with some other made up card entirely.
I have a lot of experience with Chaos Orb too. It's a really fun card. If you flip it. But the reason why it's fun is because it's random, exciting and ...chaotic.
Until the one time it lands on a corner and rolls onto your own cards. Which it can do on rare occasions.
I've seen a newly sleeved Orb slide an awkward direction or just plain miss, but I haven't ever seen one land on a corner... however...
The point is that if the effect isn't random, it's not Chaos Orb. If the effect can't miss, it's not Chaos Orb. If it can't backfire, its not Chaos Orb. Basically, if you change the wording on the card, you're playing with some other made up card entirely.
I have a lot of experience with Chaos Orb too. It's a really fun card. If you flip it. But the reason why it's fun is because it's random, exciting and ...chaotic.
...I share your conclusion. It's far more accurate than random, but there is an element of uncertainty, and without that I wouldn't want to play with Chaos Orb. If our policy towards Un-like cards would ever slacken, the Orb would be among the first cards I'd add. And we'd be flipping it for sure.
Using a double sleeved Chaos Orb (the increased weight seems to help with accuracy), spinning it on the diagonal axis with a slight downward flick we have found that it hits its intended target about 3 times out of 4. If it misses it is usually either a dud or hits another permanent belonging to the opponent. I can't recall it hitting a card belonging to the person playing it.
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Using a double sleeved Chaos Orb (the increased weight seems to help with accuracy), spinning it on the diagonal axis with a slight downward flick we have found that it hits its intended target about 3 times out of 4. If it misses it is usually either a dud or hits another permanent belonging to the opponent. I can't recall it hitting a card belonging to the person playing it.
It's a powerful artifact.
Sleeves make the card too heavy. When people flip the Orb in my cube, they're required to use an unsleeved basic land for the actual flipping.
When my friend first started his cube, he made us flip the card and we all hated it. It meant that before every draft if you planned on playing it you had to spend 5 mins practicing your tosses. After waisting those five minutes, it was basicly the colorless non-targeting vindicate we play with now. Let's face it you guys, if you are good with it you will only miss with it 1/25th of the time.
Also saying you want to keep your cube clean of errata and then doing stuff to mess with the weight of the card is kinda self-contradicting since that is errata, changing how the card plays
Also saying you want to keep your cube clean of errata and then doing stuff to mess with the weight of the card is kinda self-contradicting since that is errata, changing how the card plays
Another reason not to play it. It's a burden to play it as it was intended, and I don't like playing with custom erratas and house rules.
But, that's not what Chaos Orb does. Can I change Squire to a 4/4? I'd cube with that.
That [cube] errata existed long before any member on this forum decided to make their own format with their own pack sizes, sideboard rules, and whatever other house rules people have used over the years. That errata has been commonly accepted for half of Chaos Orb's life.
If the cube community decided that it made for a better experience to make Squire a 4/4, I'd be happy to test it out. I mean, this is a made up format for a flipping collectible card game with dragons, angels, and zombies for crying out loud.
I agree completely with this. This is widely accepted or a slight tweak of it (we use "pay 1 colorless, sac it to destroy target permanent") and it has never been questioned by anyone who has cubed with us. Very fun and cool to have a card that can be used in such fashion, making it a truly powerful and awesome card instead of constantly flipping a $200+ card...
I don't like playing with custom erratas and house rules.
Could have just said that, why did you feel the need to lecture everyone on how you think cards are intended to be played when it's just personal preference? I mean, nobody I've ever cubed with has Vorthosian gripes about Blacker Lotus not physically being torn to pieces....
I don't like playing with custom erratas and house rules.
Could have just said that, why did you feel the need to lecture everyone on how you think cards are intended to be played when it's just personal preference? I mean, nobody I've ever cubed with has Vorthosian gripes about Blacker Lotus not physically being torn to pieces....
He said that multiple times actually. In several different threads. Wtwlf also doesn't, you know, run Blacker Lotus so idk what that has to do with this.
On topic: I feel like it should be run as written, because even if you can hit your target 9 times out of 10, flipping it is still more fun that just targeting a thing.
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
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3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
The oracle text of Chaos Orb is "destroy all nontoken permanents it touches. Then destroy Chaos Orb." If you're gonna play the card, shouldn't you at least pay a little bit of homage to what it actually does?
Why should the oracle-text of Vindicate, (which it is not) matter more than the oracle text of Chaos Orb, (which it is) in deciding what it does?
The oracle text of Chaos Orb is "destroy all nontoken permanents it touches. Then destroy Chaos Orb." If you're gonna play the card, shouldn't you at least pay a little bit of homage to what it actually does?
Why should the oracle-text of Vindicate, (which it is not) matter more than the oracle text of Chaos Orb, (which it is) in deciding what it does?
Because your question was about playing Chaos Orb as a colorless Vindicate? At which point the text on Chaos Orb doesn't matter because you aren't even playing Chaos Orb anymore.
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Someone posted an alternative I thought was quite neat:
1, Tap: Choose a nontoken permanent on the battlefield. If Chaos Orb is on the battlefield, flip Chaos Orb onto the battlefield from a height of at least one foot. If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, and touches the chosen permanent, destroy that permanent. Then destroy Chaos Orb.
Keeps it functional with the physical flipping, but removes the need for the opponent to reorganize his/her cards.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Someone posted an alternative I thought was quite neat:
1, Tap: Choose a nontoken permanent on the battlefield. If Chaos Orb is on the battlefield, flip Chaos Orb onto the battlefield from a height of at least one foot. If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, and touches the chosen permanent, destroy that permanent. Then destroy Chaos Orb.
Keeps it functional with the physical flipping, but removes the need for the opponent to reorganize his/her cards.
That makes it absolutely horrible.
I also don't like the vindicate errata, because chaos orb should not be effected by hexproof, shroud, protection, etc which the vindicate errata causes it to be. I think the best errata, if you don't want to deal with the flipping, is just.
1, Tap, sacrifice ~: Choose a nontoken permanent. Destroy that permanent.
This way, you get around hexproof et al (like chaos orb does), you can still regen if you want (which you also can with chaos orb), but because the permanent is chosen on resolution you have to regen before they choose the target so they will just pick something else, indestructible permanents don't die, etc.
I am most likely going to cut it from the cube, because so many good artifacts have been printed lately, and its just not needed anymore.
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Yeah.
I've played it as a colourless vindicate and it doesn't seem overpowered that way. It does feel like an UN card though.
This is the version we use:
2
Chaos Orb
T, Sacrifice Chaos Orb: Destroy a Permanent.
2
Chaos Orb
T, Sacrifice Chaos Orb: Destroy a permanent at random, that target player controls.
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That seems a little truer to the card's intent than the colourless Vindicate, and much more fun.
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And it's still far better than Chaos Orb actually is.
Chaos Orb can miss. Chaos Orb can hit your own cards. No matter how practiced you are at the flip, it's still random. And it's supposed to be. It's a Chaos Orb. Chaotic things should happen when it's played. Playing it as a colorless Vindicate is no better than making up a brand new card out of nowhere. Because that's not what Chaos Orb does.
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Until the one time it lands on a corner and rolls onto your own cards. Which it can do on rare occasions.
The point is that if the effect isn't random, it's not Chaos Orb. If the effect can't miss, it's not Chaos Orb. If it can't backfire, its not Chaos Orb. Basically, if you change the wording on the card, you're playing with some other made up card entirely.
I have a lot of experience with Chaos Orb too. It's a really fun card. If you flip it. But the reason why it's fun is because it's random, exciting and ...chaotic.
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...I share your conclusion. It's far more accurate than random, but there is an element of uncertainty, and without that I wouldn't want to play with Chaos Orb. If our policy towards Un-like cards would ever slacken, the Orb would be among the first cards I'd add. And we'd be flipping it for sure.
It's a powerful artifact.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Sleeves make the card too heavy. When people flip the Orb in my cube, they're required to use an unsleeved basic land for the actual flipping.
Also saying you want to keep your cube clean of errata and then doing stuff to mess with the weight of the card is kinda self-contradicting since that is errata, changing how the card plays
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Another reason not to play it. It's a burden to play it as it was intended, and I don't like playing with custom erratas and house rules.
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I agree completely with this. This is widely accepted or a slight tweak of it (we use "pay 1 colorless, sac it to destroy target permanent") and it has never been questioned by anyone who has cubed with us. Very fun and cool to have a card that can be used in such fashion, making it a truly powerful and awesome card instead of constantly flipping a $200+ card...
Could have just said that, why did you feel the need to lecture everyone on how you think cards are intended to be played when it's just personal preference? I mean, nobody I've ever cubed with has Vorthosian gripes about Blacker Lotus not physically being torn to pieces....
He said that multiple times actually. In several different threads. Wtwlf also doesn't, you know, run Blacker Lotus so idk what that has to do with this.
On topic: I feel like it should be run as written, because even if you can hit your target 9 times out of 10, flipping it is still more fun that just targeting a thing.
if that was the oracle text on Vindicate, yes. But seeing as that isn't the oracle text on Vindicate, I think just permanent is fine.
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Why should the oracle-text of Vindicate, (which it is not) matter more than the oracle text of Chaos Orb, (which it is) in deciding what it does?
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Because your question was about playing Chaos Orb as a colorless Vindicate? At which point the text on Chaos Orb doesn't matter because you aren't even playing Chaos Orb anymore.
Keeps it functional with the physical flipping, but removes the need for the opponent to reorganize his/her cards.
That makes it absolutely horrible.
I also don't like the vindicate errata, because chaos orb should not be effected by hexproof, shroud, protection, etc which the vindicate errata causes it to be. I think the best errata, if you don't want to deal with the flipping, is just.
1, Tap, sacrifice ~: Choose a nontoken permanent. Destroy that permanent.
This way, you get around hexproof et al (like chaos orb does), you can still regen if you want (which you also can with chaos orb), but because the permanent is chosen on resolution you have to regen before they choose the target so they will just pick something else, indestructible permanents don't die, etc.
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