Can that info (which ones appear in each persons cube, not the top 10 by %'s) be spoilered Eidolon? And I mean that for each of the other threads as well.
I think Kitchen Finks is the clear #1 for me. If it were mono-colored, it'd be the best or at least the top three 3-drop in that color. The fact that it's hybrid makes it a no-brainer for me.
The #2 slot is between Loam Lion & Qasali Pridemage, IMO. Normally I'd say that Pridemage is a slam dunk, but Loam Lion enables an archetype (GW aggro) that may be valuable to your cube, and Loam Lion's stock is rising daily with the printing of new cards like Dryad Militant. If GW aggro is not something you care to promote, skip the Lion altogether.
I think that your third slot is dictated by the type of gameplay your group enjoys: choose between Mirari's Wake, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Knight of the Reliquary, and Selesnya Charm. Knight's value rises if you play Loam Lion, but sinks pretty low IMO if you don't. Sigarda has the highest overall power, but I strongly disfavor Hexproof as a keyword, because it makes the game just a bit less interactive. I personally tend to weed out Hexproof and shroud cards where the alternative is roughly at equal power, just as I do with protection creatures. Selesnya Charm is great if you have players who value flexibility in each of their cards--as I do--which can lead to a complex and dynamic draft environment, at the risk of analysis paralysis. Mirari's Wake's time in the sun may have passed, but it's still great if you have Timmy-ish players in your group. It's difficult to lose with a Wake in play and some players have classified it as a win-more card, but it's important to remember that big mana is still important in cube (and that most significantly, that big mana is just fun).
I run Pridemage, and Wake as gold currently. I'll add Dryad Militant to my hybrid pseudo-section alongside Kitchen Finks. I'll probably swap out Wake for Selesnya Charm, but Wake may come back later. I feel that Wake's presence is needed from time to time, to fulfill the giddy needs of players.
We really should wait until after the whole set is spoiled. All the rankings posted in the early part of the thread could be irrelevant in a few weeks.
We really should wait until after the whole set is spoiled. All the rankings posted in the early part of the thread could be irrelevant in a few weeks.
I don't mind. The valuable part is not the raw rankings -- that can be found in power rankings or even just looking at the raw percentages that Eidolon provides. I think the valuable aspect of discussion is thinking about why certain cards are played. Why run Sigarda, for example. I don't think that card is for every cube group, even though the raw power is high. What are the alternatives to running Sigarda? What factors should be taken into consideration when designing a Selesnya Guild section? These questions are a subset of a broader question set that new and especially older cubers will have to address in the coming times.
Man, Armadillo Cloak dropped in popularity pretty hard. I feel like I'm watching one of those Where Are They Now episodes for old rock stars.
Knight of the Reliquary's value may increase in time with the printing of more utility lands, but I don't think it can keep pace with the stuff coming out of RtR. It's too bad, because repeatable tutoring in a singleton format is pretty boss.
I wonder if we could build different packages for the guild depending on the cube manager's wants. I can see at least three different ways of building GW sections now (aggro, midrange/control and tokens).
Man, Armadillo Cloak dropped in popularity pretty hard. I feel like I'm watching one of those Where Are They Now episodes for old rock stars.
Knight of the Reliquary's value may increase in time with the printing of more utility lands, but I don't think it can keep pace with the stuff coming out of RtR. It's too bad, because repeatable tutoring in a singleton format is pretty boss.
I wonder if we could build different packages for the guild depending on the cube manager's wants. I can see at least three different ways of building GW sections now (aggro, midrange/control and tokens).
It would an interesting thought exercise to say the least. Though I'd like to wait until after the whole set is spoiled to create them since there is a high chance of there being more relevant cards to add in.
I wonder if we could build different packages for the guild depending on the cube manager's wants. I can see at least three different ways of building GW sections now (aggro, midrange/control and tokens).
I think that is going to be true of most of the guilds after this block. They will cease being just the most powerful cards in that pair and become a method for the cube builder to craft the cube s/he wants (or that his/her group enjoys). That was already starting to happen in some guilds (tempo vs. control vs. blink in Azorius for example).
WG tends to be aggro or midrange in my cube with both builds being creature heavy. Hence, I want the aggro creatures in this guild. I would be happy with a really good token producer here, although with the dryad available I don't feel I need anything else in this guild.
I like the Knight a lot. It's a good utility creature that plays well with Loam/Crucible combo decks, in addition to being a tutor for a bunch of great utility lands, mana-fixers and win conditions. And it also grows into a pretty massive body, thins your deck and only costs three mana.
How would you rate KotR in a cube that typically is played with two guys doing a sealed pool or winston draft? I feel like the combo potential of this guy is pretty much neutered when the available card selection is 1/4 what it would be in an 8 man draft.
That said, I've never played with KotR before in any setting and may be completely undervaluing his uses as a utility dude.
@Power Conduit: That's honestly some of the most thoughtful and insightful views I've read about the cube. Not even being sarcastic, you raise a terrific point about what you expect/trend your [guild] or [cube] to be.
@Knight of the Reliquary:
I have my small (never gone past 400) cube and have tested a variety of options. KotR works well with certain cardpools but blows in others. Have a draft of GW-something, Kotr, and suddenly get passed maze of ith? Good day for the fair lady. Running into duals/fetches? Not a bad investment with KotR either. Even man-lands or city of brass act as solid targets. Basic land filtering is also "okay". This is the proverbial drop-off for KotR. She can act as a perpetual fetchland to thin out a deck. You're not necessarily ramping....but from the mid-game on you'll hit threats instead of basics. I have no experience with her in powered lists.
For sealed, you're more vulnerable to variance/random cards. KotR is a house if you can pair her with 2 or 3 "good" nonbasics. Sealed is a crapshoot unless you run an assisted sealed (ie; split a random pot of duals, bomb cards, etc).
Overall, KotR helps several formats. First, she's aggro all the way (Zoo and co). Second, she transforms into mid-range (GW midrange beats). Third, she aids 3 color fun. This may not be a specific playstyle per-se, but it's definitely a draft archetype. Especially with a dual land or two, your odds of meshing together Rock-Junk or Naya got better. Last, in very luck-aided drafts, I would make the case for her to push control as a finisher/enabler. Bant control or Staxx can be achieved in the cube and with the help of wasteland, strip mine, maze of ith, and/or tabernacle (if run).
**Fetching for any land and putting it into play is a very very powerful effect in singleton formats. However, KotR is limited by the cardpool of the cube she's in.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
KotR is definitely utility and sometimes very big. If you support Crucible and/or loam, then she gets even more saucy.
I have to say, I very much dislike Sigarda. It's just an unfun and uninteractive card to play against. I feel like, if there's something beating your face, you should be able to interact with it.
Is there a reason why Gaddock Teeg doesn't see more play? THe protection seems very powerful and advances GW's game plan.
I hadn't gotten to play with the charm yet. I was hoping it would be higher (I'm a huge versatility fan) but it's tough to argue, since that list is just insane, top to bottom.
Can you explain why Mirari's Wake is good? It always seemed like a "win-more" card and I don't know what kind of deck would want it (the ramp seems a bit overkill).
I sort of forgot about Gavony Township - would anyone else rank that in their top 10? I've played it a lot in Standard and it can really take over games - especially if you're running a decent amount of mana dorks. And obviously it's awesome with token makers. Thoughts?
For us, it was too expensive to activate and ultimately didn't do enough to justify a pick during the draft. Compared to Mirari's Wake, for example, by the time Township was better than a crappy land that tapped for colorless, Wake would pump my entire team and double my mana production. But other groups have had success with it, so maybe it was just us.
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The #2 slot is between Loam Lion & Qasali Pridemage, IMO. Normally I'd say that Pridemage is a slam dunk, but Loam Lion enables an archetype (GW aggro) that may be valuable to your cube, and Loam Lion's stock is rising daily with the printing of new cards like Dryad Militant. If GW aggro is not something you care to promote, skip the Lion altogether.
I think that your third slot is dictated by the type of gameplay your group enjoys: choose between Mirari's Wake, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Knight of the Reliquary, and Selesnya Charm. Knight's value rises if you play Loam Lion, but sinks pretty low IMO if you don't. Sigarda has the highest overall power, but I strongly disfavor Hexproof as a keyword, because it makes the game just a bit less interactive. I personally tend to weed out Hexproof and shroud cards where the alternative is roughly at equal power, just as I do with protection creatures. Selesnya Charm is great if you have players who value flexibility in each of their cards--as I do--which can lead to a complex and dynamic draft environment, at the risk of analysis paralysis. Mirari's Wake's time in the sun may have passed, but it's still great if you have Timmy-ish players in your group. It's difficult to lose with a Wake in play and some players have classified it as a win-more card, but it's important to remember that big mana is still important in cube (and that most significantly, that big mana is just fun).
I run Pridemage, and Wake as gold currently. I'll add Dryad Militant to my hybrid pseudo-section alongside Kitchen Finks. I'll probably swap out Wake for Selesnya Charm, but Wake may come back later. I feel that Wake's presence is needed from time to time, to fulfill the giddy needs of players.
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I was going to cut Wake for Sigarda, Host of Herons but now I need to find room for Dryad Militant.
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I don't mind. The valuable part is not the raw rankings -- that can be found in power rankings or even just looking at the raw percentages that Eidolon provides. I think the valuable aspect of discussion is thinking about why certain cards are played. Why run Sigarda, for example. I don't think that card is for every cube group, even though the raw power is high. What are the alternatives to running Sigarda? What factors should be taken into consideration when designing a Selesnya Guild section? These questions are a subset of a broader question set that new and especially older cubers will have to address in the coming times.
Knight of the Reliquary's value may increase in time with the printing of more utility lands, but I don't think it can keep pace with the stuff coming out of RtR. It's too bad, because repeatable tutoring in a singleton format is pretty boss.
I wonder if we could build different packages for the guild depending on the cube manager's wants. I can see at least three different ways of building GW sections now (aggro, midrange/control and tokens).
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Qasali Pridemage
Loam Lion
Sigarda, Host of Herons
And I will cut one white and one green card for:
Dryad Militant
Kitchen Finks
Just missing out is the new Selesnya Charm. The card is bawse, but there's not the space.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
It would an interesting thought exercise to say the least. Though I'd like to wait until after the whole set is spoiled to create them since there is a high chance of there being more relevant cards to add in.
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I think that is going to be true of most of the guilds after this block. They will cease being just the most powerful cards in that pair and become a method for the cube builder to craft the cube s/he wants (or that his/her group enjoys). That was already starting to happen in some guilds (tempo vs. control vs. blink in Azorius for example).
WG tends to be aggro or midrange in my cube with both builds being creature heavy. Hence, I want the aggro creatures in this guild. I would be happy with a really good token producer here, although with the dryad available I don't feel I need anything else in this guild.
Cheers,
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I'm currently running:
Qasali Pridemage
Loam Lion
Sigarda
(Finks is in hybrid)
I want to go to 4 gold cards, and am torn between Selsnaya Charm and the Knight.
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That said, I've never played with KotR before in any setting and may be completely undervaluing his uses as a utility dude.
@Knight of the Reliquary:
I have my small (never gone past 400) cube and have tested a variety of options. KotR works well with certain cardpools but blows in others. Have a draft of GW-something, Kotr, and suddenly get passed maze of ith? Good day for the fair lady. Running into duals/fetches? Not a bad investment with KotR either. Even man-lands or city of brass act as solid targets. Basic land filtering is also "okay". This is the proverbial drop-off for KotR. She can act as a perpetual fetchland to thin out a deck. You're not necessarily ramping....but from the mid-game on you'll hit threats instead of basics. I have no experience with her in powered lists.
For sealed, you're more vulnerable to variance/random cards. KotR is a house if you can pair her with 2 or 3 "good" nonbasics. Sealed is a crapshoot unless you run an assisted sealed (ie; split a random pot of duals, bomb cards, etc).
Overall, KotR helps several formats. First, she's aggro all the way (Zoo and co). Second, she transforms into mid-range (GW midrange beats). Third, she aids 3 color fun. This may not be a specific playstyle per-se, but it's definitely a draft archetype. Especially with a dual land or two, your odds of meshing together Rock-Junk or Naya got better. Last, in very luck-aided drafts, I would make the case for her to push control as a finisher/enabler. Bant control or Staxx can be achieved in the cube and with the help of wasteland, strip mine, maze of ith, and/or tabernacle (if run).
**Fetching for any land and putting it into play is a very very powerful effect in singleton formats. However, KotR is limited by the cardpool of the cube she's in.
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I have to say, I very much dislike Sigarda. It's just an unfun and uninteractive card to play against. I feel like, if there's something beating your face, you should be able to interact with it.
Is there a reason why Gaddock Teeg doesn't see more play? THe protection seems very powerful and advances GW's game plan.
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Voice of Resurgence
Knight of the Reliquary
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Behemoth Sledge
Gaddock Teeg
Something like that. Agree/Disagree? Other cards that might be run or people would advocate?
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02 Dryad Militant
03 Voice of Resurgence
04 Qasali Pridemage
05 Loam Lion
06 Mirari's Wake
07 Knight of the Reliquary
08 Armada Wurm
09 Sigarda, Host of Herons
10 Selesnya Charm
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I hadn't gotten to play with the charm yet. I was hoping it would be higher (I'm a huge versatility fan) but it's tough to argue, since that list is just insane, top to bottom.
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Agreed, except--in theory--I'd rank Pridemage over Voice. Testing might make me think otherwise.
Amazing that Advent of the Wurm doesn't crack that list. Not that it should, it's just that's how good Selesnya is.
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