Every time they appear in a MTGO cube draft they are considered as high picks. They can cheated into play, but not reanimated. I know they are awesome, but are they good enough?
I have played Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and Artisan of Kozilek for a while, even before I boosted the "Cheat Fatties" green theme, and the only support was ramp. They are ok, but haven't really shined yet.
I have in my most recent update added Ulamog as well, because I want players to be able to rely on them getting one in a draft. I'm thinking about adding Emrakul as well.
Flavor-wise the Eldrazi are really awesome, but unfortunately there aren't that many ways to cheat them into play and the exceptionally high casting costs mean that it's hard to even ramp into these guys.
As you mentioned, no graveyard means an automatic no for reanimation strategies. Not artifact means no Tinker or Welder, and not green means no Natural Order. The extreme cost also puts it out of the range of Birthing Pod. So that pretty much leaves Sneak Attack for most cubes. I guess if you're also running the more marginal Show and Tell and second-stringers Elvish Piper and Quicksilver Amulet that gives you a few more options, but I just can't see them being worth it.
Channel says hi. But IMO only sneak attack is (a little) played. I don't like them (the eldrazi) in cubes. Luckily they cant be abused, because epic ETB trigger + stats + annihilator is too much.
Casting Griselbrand, Sundering titan or Woodfall primus by alternatives way is enough already. Castering Emrakul or Kozilek would be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much imo.
I have no interest in playing cards that will never be hardcast. Their cost makes them incredibly narrow, and I have difficulty believing that there are many, if any, decks that wouldn't be better served swapping one of these guys for a Titan or artifact finisher (Wurmcoil or Battlesphere).
Watching AWinnarIsYou stream cube, I saw a neat trick. He had survival in play, with Shriekmaw and an Eldrazi in his deck. That meant he could turn every creature he drew into a terror for GGB1. You could do similar tricks with Bone Shredder or Mulldrifter. Admittedly, many Survival decks don't want to reshuffle their yard, but some do.
Both kozilek and ulamog are recent additions to my cube and both have done pretty well.
I feel like an eldrazi gets hardcast at least once in every two or three drafts. I support ramp (but no sneak or show) and the archetype is really popular in my group. Two of them is enough for me, though.
Both kozilek and ulamog are recent additions to my cube and both have done pretty well.
I feel like an eldrazi gets hardcast at least once in every two or three drafts. I support ramp (but no sneak or show) and the archetype is really popular in my group. Two of them is enough for me, though.
can you explain how this plays out typically? how much ramp is usually played before the eldrazi come out? how early do they come out?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Ulamog's Crusher, anyone? The guys over at the Pauper Cube thread absolutely love this fella. At 8 mana he's cheap enough that you can still hardcast him after laying down a reasonable amount of ramp or locking down the board with a solid control plan. He's still vulnerable to removal like the Pathrazer and he'll get chump-blocked every turn, but if you can protect him for at least a couple of turns the annihilator 2 will still do a lot of work.
Ulamog's Crusher is awesome in pauper cause creatures there are much weaker. Even a 4/4 is pretty huge in pauper I think. Crusher is the premier fatty in that format, but not good in powered cube IMO.
We do run the two in OP in our powered 540. A Tooth and Nail deck here seems to always have one ;).
We also run Sneak Attack and Show and Tell so they show up in ramp decks that run one of those for a different angle. I've seen them hard cast pretty fast off of Rofellos or Omnath in monogreen ramp too (as they are arguably the best "monogreen" fatties). Also, one of our drafters has an unnatural phobia of being milled since he plays draw heavy control decks. I can't say how many times the shuffle effect has saved him. It usually functions as his backup finisher too(if Ulamog). Overall we are very happy with them. Ulamog especially is very safe from being cut.
can you explain how this plays out typically? how much ramp is usually played before the eldrazi come out? how early do they come out?
Sure. Last week my opponent was running a ramp deck with 2 mana-elves, harrow, cultivate, prime time, sol ring, a mox & mana vault. One example was when he went:
T-1 Birds
T-2 Cultivate
T-3 Mox & Prime Time (putting him to 8 mana sources)
T-4 Sol Ring
T-5 Ulamog
I guess when I lay it out turn-by-turn this was a pretty nutty draw. In reality everything felt like how a ramp deck should function. It didn't feel ridiculous until I stepped back and said, "Holy crap...that was a T-5 Ulamog!" This was the game where his deck was working the best.
I recently added Worn Powerstone & Thran Dynamo and they both see a good amount of play (maybe more than they should see). People like them with the Eldrazi and people like them in any decks with more high-end guys. Honestly, the Eldrazi aren't even in just green ramp. I've seen them cast on turn 7 or turn 8 in non-green decks with artifact mana acceleration.
I only added all of these cards when I expanded my Cube to support 8 player drafts. If you mostly do 2-4 player drafts then I wouldn't recommend the Eldrazi package (ha!) of cards. If you do more than that then definitely give these cards a try. The one good thing that came out of the MTGO Cube was watching people draft these sweet ramp decks. It inspired me to add these cards and the response from my playgroup has been tremendous.
Cards I've added to try & support the Eldrazi:
Kozilek
Ulamog
Primeval Titan
Grim Monolith (an insane card that should be added to your Cube regardless of your Eldrazi status)
Worn Powerstone
Thran Dynamo
Edge of Autumn
Farseek (I may switch this to Growth Spasm)
I won't list all of the other artifact/green ramp that I run as most of the other cards are pretty standard. If you have the other support then adding these cards (or at least the first six) should put you in a position to party with the Eldrazi.
I love Ulamog, but the absence of Emrakul is mighty suspicious. did Menery make this cube?
Why would you run Emrakul in cube? If you really want to run an Eldrazi, Ulamog does more than enough to win most games, for the low low cost of 11 mana.
Why would you run Emrakul in cube? If you really want to run an Eldrazi, Ulamog does more than enough to win most games, for the low low cost of 11 mana.
Ulamog also gets bounced once he gets cheated into play, but Emrakul has a much harder time getting bounced.
I'd say Eldrazi are cheated into play far more often than hardcast, so Emrakul is often times better than any other Eldrazi because once he gets cheated into play, he's more insane than the others.
You discard it then reanimate it at instant speed with the trigger on the stack and attack for a lot of value. It doesn't stick around until next turn, but you get annihilator triggers which often make up for that.
The Necromancy trick used to work where you would discard something like Emrakul at EOT and after the period where EOT triggers go on the stack you would cast Necromancy and it wouldn't be sacrificed until the next EOT (which would be yours after you attacked). Unfortunately for those people that want to do that, Necromancy now features a Waylay/Thawing Glaciers-style errata where it now triggers in the cleanup step rather than during the end-of-turn. If you want to actually reanimate Eldrazi you'll need to use cards like Makeshift Mannequin/Corpse Dance (or more fringe like Goryo's Vengeance/Shallow Grave) to pull it off.
Why would you run Emrakul in cube? If you really want to run an Eldrazi, Ulamog does more than enough to win most games, for the low low cost of 11 mana.
The mtgo cube has cards like Show and Tell and Sneak Attack, as well as several of the hideaway lands...
The cube forum showed a lot of love for both Sneak Attack and Channel but I feel that those strategies want most of all the biggest upon targets. Obviously they're quite narrow for cube (they would be my most expensive cmc by two extra mana) and have a hard time being reanimated, but I still think it's worth talking about.
Obviously my thread has been inspired by watching some MODO cube drafts.
EDIT: Sorry about the wrong subform. I'll let a mod move it.
I feel like if the Eldrazi were in my cube, I'd want to remove Channel. I specifically don't mind including channel because you can't play anything more powerful than a Wurmcoil Engine or Sundering Titan on turn 2, which are already game ending enough. I don't need an Eldrazi coming down then on top of that.
Sneak Attack gets enough good toys already that are either Tinkerable, Natural Orderable, or Reanimatable that it doesn't need things that don't fit either of those strategies. I like all of my big fatties to be able to get into play via multiple methods, so they don't end up drafted last all the time, and the Eldrazi don't do that.
I really don't want to run creatures with a double digit mana cost that I cannot even reanimate. Even with Sneak Attack and a heavy ramp theme, making Kozilek or Ulamog playable seems pretty hard. I ran Artisan of Kozilek for some time, because 9 is much easier to get than 10, but he just wasn't powerful enough for the cost / for the hoops you have to jump through.
Every time they appear in a MTGO cube draft they are considered as high picks. They can cheated into play, but not reanimated. I know they are awesome, but are they good enough?
My Peasant Cube: @ mtgsalvation---- @ cubecobra
I have in my most recent update added Ulamog as well, because I want players to be able to rely on them getting one in a draft. I'm thinking about adding Emrakul as well.
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As you mentioned, no graveyard means an automatic no for reanimation strategies. Not artifact means no Tinker or Welder, and not green means no Natural Order. The extreme cost also puts it out of the range of Birthing Pod. So that pretty much leaves Sneak Attack for most cubes. I guess if you're also running the more marginal Show and Tell and second-stringers Elvish Piper and Quicksilver Amulet that gives you a few more options, but I just can't see them being worth it.
Casting Griselbrand, Sundering titan or Woodfall primus by alternatives way is enough already. Castering Emrakul or Kozilek would be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much imo.
I feel like an eldrazi gets hardcast at least once in every two or three drafts. I support ramp (but no sneak or show) and the archetype is really popular in my group. Two of them is enough for me, though.
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
can you explain how this plays out typically? how much ramp is usually played before the eldrazi come out? how early do they come out?
We do run the two in OP in our powered 540. A Tooth and Nail deck here seems to always have one ;).
We also run Sneak Attack and Show and Tell so they show up in ramp decks that run one of those for a different angle. I've seen them hard cast pretty fast off of Rofellos or Omnath in monogreen ramp too (as they are arguably the best "monogreen" fatties). Also, one of our drafters has an unnatural phobia of being milled since he plays draw heavy control decks. I can't say how many times the shuffle effect has saved him. It usually functions as his backup finisher too(if Ulamog). Overall we are very happy with them. Ulamog especially is very safe from being cut.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
Anyway... I think Ulamog might be the only one worth it, and only if you support both ramp and fatty cheat.
Sure. Last week my opponent was running a ramp deck with 2 mana-elves, harrow, cultivate, prime time, sol ring, a mox & mana vault. One example was when he went:
T-1 Birds
T-2 Cultivate
T-3 Mox & Prime Time (putting him to 8 mana sources)
T-4 Sol Ring
T-5 Ulamog
I guess when I lay it out turn-by-turn this was a pretty nutty draw. In reality everything felt like how a ramp deck should function. It didn't feel ridiculous until I stepped back and said, "Holy crap...that was a T-5 Ulamog!" This was the game where his deck was working the best.
I recently added Worn Powerstone & Thran Dynamo and they both see a good amount of play (maybe more than they should see). People like them with the Eldrazi and people like them in any decks with more high-end guys. Honestly, the Eldrazi aren't even in just green ramp. I've seen them cast on turn 7 or turn 8 in non-green decks with artifact mana acceleration.
I only added all of these cards when I expanded my Cube to support 8 player drafts. If you mostly do 2-4 player drafts then I wouldn't recommend the Eldrazi package (ha!) of cards. If you do more than that then definitely give these cards a try. The one good thing that came out of the MTGO Cube was watching people draft these sweet ramp decks. It inspired me to add these cards and the response from my playgroup has been tremendous.
Cards I've added to try & support the Eldrazi:
Kozilek
Ulamog
Primeval Titan
Grim Monolith (an insane card that should be added to your Cube regardless of your Eldrazi status)
Worn Powerstone
Thran Dynamo
Edge of Autumn
Farseek (I may switch this to Growth Spasm)
I won't list all of the other artifact/green ramp that I run as most of the other cards are pretty standard. If you have the other support then adding these cards (or at least the first six) should put you in a position to party with the Eldrazi.
Good luck!
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
Second, I love the Eldrazi in the Cube. They add another dimension for different decks. Also, they're a defense against Jace 3.0. =)
Why would you run Emrakul in cube? If you really want to run an Eldrazi, Ulamog does more than enough to win most games, for the low low cost of 11 mana.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Here is a quick list I came up with of reasonable Cube cards:
Mirari's Wake
Primeval Titan
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Omnath, Locus of Mana
Channel
Eureka
Awakening Zone
Sneak Attack
Koth, of the Hammer
Gaunlet of Might?
Necromancy (requires a discard outlet obv)
Show and Tell
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
also loyal retainers thought it may be a bit of a stretch depending on the cube.
Ulamog also gets bounced once he gets cheated into play, but Emrakul has a much harder time getting bounced.
I'd say Eldrazi are cheated into play far more often than hardcast, so Emrakul is often times better than any other Eldrazi because once he gets cheated into play, he's more insane than the others.
You discard it then reanimate it at instant speed with the trigger on the stack and attack for a lot of value. It doesn't stick around until next turn, but you get annihilator triggers which often make up for that.
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
The mtgo cube has cards like Show and Tell and Sneak Attack, as well as several of the hideaway lands...
The cube forum showed a lot of love for both Sneak Attack and Channel but I feel that those strategies want most of all the biggest upon targets. Obviously they're quite narrow for cube (they would be my most expensive cmc by two extra mana) and have a hard time being reanimated, but I still think it's worth talking about.
Obviously my thread has been inspired by watching some MODO cube drafts.
EDIT: Sorry about the wrong subform. I'll let a mod move it.
Multiple Eldrazi threads merged.
Sneak Attack gets enough good toys already that are either Tinkerable, Natural Orderable, or Reanimatable that it doesn't need things that don't fit either of those strategies. I like all of my big fatties to be able to get into play via multiple methods, so they don't end up drafted last all the time, and the Eldrazi don't do that.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG