I'd say a lot of card draw is bad when you are behind since all you want to do is clear the board or advance your board.
I asked this question in this or that not too long ago and people pretty much voted for necro over bargain when give the choice. Bargain certainly is a stronger card since you get the cards immediately, but 6 mana may be too late for it to matter.
And doesn't want to relive t1 land, dark rit/black lotus, necropotence
Realistically, any deck that plays Messenger can play Necropotence. It's actually slightly easier to cast in the cube because it can come down later in the curve with less consequence. Resolve the card at the end of your curve and refill your hand once with it, and you'll see why people include it in the cube.
Agree with that, I ran Messenger and Necropotence for a while before we realised that it's a bit hard to make that work in 2 man Winston drafts, in terms of drafting such a single colour heavy deck. If we drafted more frequently with more players they would both be in on merit at 360, particularly because the black three drop section is a little weak at that size.
Can anyone post a real life example of a Necropotence cube deck? Preferably a successful one
Eidolon's statistics show that 50% of cubes run the card, and in theory I love it, an iconic powerhouse of Magic's history, but I have never seen it in play, it always goes last pick. Sometimes when I try to draft it just for the heck of it, I fail miserably. So it would be nice to see how a deck would look like with Necro in it.
Basically the problem always ends up being that there are too many loss of life cards in black, and it adds up quickly. Not to mention you can't reliably play reanimator with Necropotence.
I have a 500 card cube, with black aggro support, and some monoblack support (Geralf's Messenger, Contagion)
Maybe not the exact list but as I remember it:
Necropotence
Phrexian Arena
Zuran Orb
Lliana of the Veil
Dark Ritual
Mox Diamond
Rancor
Hymn to Torach
Firestorm
Abrupt Decay
Sword of War and Peace
Berserk
Deathrite Shaman
Birds of Paradise
Strangleroot Geist
Expieriment One
Wild Mongrel
Geralf's Messenger
Disciple of Bolas
Gravecrawler
Diregraf Ghoul
Vampire Nighthawk
Hypnotic Spector
Vault Skirge
Blood Scrievner
And some combination of lands. I know I has a city of brass, overgrown tomb, and stomping grounds.
Round one vs. U/Wcontrol
Turn one dark ritual hynpnotic spectre, Turn 2 nectro with the mox, then I just vomited my had on the board. Second game it was berserking a messnger equipted with a sword.
Round two vs. Boros Aggro
Slow start but rancored vampire nighthawk and deathrite shaman kept my life high enough for a arena fueled firestorm. Game two LLiana comes out and takes over.
Round three vs. Blue black tempo
Gets me the first game with a an endless stream of removal and a turn two duskmantle seer I couldn't deal with. Game two Blood Scriever and Wild Mongrel kept me going, until I drop necro for huge to berserk the mongrel the next turn. Game three I firestrom his early puds, then drop necro and crush him with offense.
Most drafts it doesn't go like that and plenty of times it is a value 5 drop, or tables the draft and rides the sideline but when it is good.... wow.
Just went through this thread and noticed a few people had amazing things to say about Necro... but when I look at cube lists I don't see it there. What happened to make it fall out of favour?
It left my cube because the heavy black lists were mostly playing Pox, and it's surprisingly not good in pox because it shuts off all of your recursive stuff (sure you can draw a billion cards, but since your deck is all about value and not about, y'know, winning anytime soon, it just wasn't all that good.
We've toned down pox, not because it was bad but because I like to let the cube shift some and not play the same things all the time, and I could see bringing it back for a while, but there's not really a rush.
I was iffy on Necro when we first jumped on that bandwagon, but it's become one of my favorite cube cards since it's inclusion. The casting cost can be rough, but it doesn't have to come down on turn three to be good and I think that's a big part what helps it. Playing it on turn five or six in a heavy black control shell is still solid. It just creates so much card advantage.
While it's true that any deck that can cast Necropotence can cast Geralf's Messenger and Gatekeeper of Malakir, the creatures will always be good no matter when you cast it, but unless you cast Necropotence early, often times you won't have enough life to get any card advantage out of it without putting yourself dangerously low. Also, with the rise of Aggro in Cube it makes maining Necropotence an even less savory prospect. I've cut it after it being repeatedly a last or second to last pick.
I don't look at Necro as a card that's going to pull me out of a bind. Granted, if my life total is high enough, it will certainly do just that. What I love about Necro is that it has so much synergy with so many other cards that are already in the cube. My favorite Necro list that I've seen so far also had Trading Post, Recurring Nightmare, and Crucible of Worlds. Those are the types of lists where Necro can really shine. It's not as universal as something like Phyrexian Arena, but it's a powerhouse when it fits. I don't think I'll be cutting it any time soon.
What happened? Everyone loved him in 2012 but now he's a relic? I had always considered him a staple, but suppose Necropotence time is up in cube? If that is the case, Geralf's Messenger also should go?
Pretty much what wtwlf said. I'm still a fan of Necro in general, but the BBB cost is a bit prohibitive and we've gotten a ton of great black cards over the past seven years. I don't think it'll ever leave my on deck binder.
Necro is one of the main reasons Mono Black is one of the stronger archetypes in my cube. As for Geralf's Messenger, I cut it a little over a year ago and haven't missed it. Also, when Heliod, Sun-Crowned was added to my cube, I added a small lifegain subtheme in White that I'm hoping to see cross pollinate a little into the Necro deck.
I asked this question in this or that not too long ago and people pretty much voted for necro over bargain when give the choice. Bargain certainly is a stronger card since you get the cards immediately, but 6 mana may be too late for it to matter.
And doesn't want to relive t1 land, dark rit/black lotus, necropotence
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Maybe not the exact list but as I remember it:
Necropotence
Phrexian Arena
Zuran Orb
Lliana of the Veil
Dark Ritual
Mox Diamond
Rancor
Hymn to Torach
Firestorm
Abrupt Decay
Sword of War and Peace
Berserk
Deathrite Shaman
Birds of Paradise
Strangleroot Geist
Expieriment One
Wild Mongrel
Geralf's Messenger
Disciple of Bolas
Gravecrawler
Diregraf Ghoul
Vampire Nighthawk
Hypnotic Spector
Vault Skirge
Blood Scrievner
And some combination of lands. I know I has a city of brass, overgrown tomb, and stomping grounds.
Round one vs. U/Wcontrol
Turn one dark ritual hynpnotic spectre, Turn 2 nectro with the mox, then I just vomited my had on the board. Second game it was berserking a messnger equipted with a sword.
Round two vs. Boros Aggro
Slow start but rancored vampire nighthawk and deathrite shaman kept my life high enough for a arena fueled firestorm. Game two LLiana comes out and takes over.
Round three vs. Blue black tempo
Gets me the first game with a an endless stream of removal and a turn two duskmantle seer I couldn't deal with. Game two Blood Scriever and Wild Mongrel kept me going, until I drop necro for huge to berserk the mongrel the next turn. Game three I firestrom his early puds, then drop necro and crush him with offense.
Most drafts it doesn't go like that and plenty of times it is a value 5 drop, or tables the draft and rides the sideline but when it is good.... wow.
We've toned down pox, not because it was bad but because I like to let the cube shift some and not play the same things all the time, and I could see bringing it back for a while, but there's not really a rush.
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Follow me. I tweet.
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
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Follow me. I tweet.
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