MTG Salvation

I'm currently using a 360 budgety cube, are these worth it without true dual lands and fetch lands?

They are a lot better with the fetches and duals, but still playable without. Try them out and see how well they do.

I played Naya once with the MTGO cube with all three in my deck with no true dual lands (shocks or ABU duals) and they worked out fine.

I still say they are good, I play them in decks without shocks or ABU ones, and they work just fine. They are needed for aggro IMO.

Fortunately they all have green as a "key color," so fetching up basics of the other types isn't too hard. Just make sure you have plenty of ways to do that and these guys should work okay.

I would still play them.

Wild Nacatl is perfectly playable in WG aggro or RG aggro. You don't have to be playing Naya for it to be good.

Quote from wtwlf123

Wild Nacatl is perfectly playable in WG aggro or RG aggro. You don't have to be playing Naya for it to be good.

Last I heard a 2/2 for one mana was still pretty good.

Yeah I was just beating face last night with Wild Nacatl in a purely G/W deck. Didn't draft any good duals with red or any good red spells, but she's still beast as a one mana 2/2.

I play these in an peasant cube so there are no fetches/shocks/duals and they are still awesome. Kird Ape and Loam Lion are almost always 2/3 and Wild Nacatl is generally a 2/2 but sometimes a 3/3.

Still worth it, I have all 3 in my peasant cube, which of course has no true duals or fetches. They are still very solid. They still beat face. Play them

Would anyone run Kird Ape/Loam Lion without supporting green aggro? I have been thinking that it might not be too hard to pick up a dual land or three with a forest type to support these guys even if you're in a r/w deck. I'm not sure if that is just a pipe dream though. Has anyone tried this?

Quote from Trunkers

I think even if you don't explicitly go out of your way to support green aggro, all of these are great. Green is never the main color in our aggro decks, but it's a great support color. Rancor, Bloodbraid Elf, Nacatl, Kitchen Finks, Troll Ascetic, etc.

Naya Zoo is a very strong cube deck, provided your cube has sufficient density of fixing.

This. We don't have a very strong green aggro suite, and only run the most efficient beaters. Nacatl, Kird Ape and Loam Lion are among these and they do fine. They do end up in sideboards from time to time (as do almost all aggro dorks), but when they are played they are great.

I guess my question is, are Loam Lion and Kird Ape ever played in a deck without green spells? If I were to re-include them in my cube this is how they would be played and I am wondering if that is worth it.

Quote from Trunkers

I think even if you don't explicitly go out of your way to support green aggro, all of these are great. Green is never the main color in our aggro decks, but it's a great support color

I Agree. My cube actually runs Kird Ape only, because G/W is so deep with other relevant cards, but Kird Ape is great in R/G aggro decks. Green just has so many good support cards that aren't aggro only that you can easily run Kird Ape or Loam Lion or Wild Nacatl even if you don't have any of the bad green 1drop dudes.

Quote from JeffDerek

I Agree. My cube actually runs Kird Ape only, because G/W is so deep with other relevant cards, but Kird Ape is great in R/G aggro decks. Green just has so many good support cards that aren't aggro only that you can easily run Kird Ape or Loam Lion or Wild Nacatl even if you don't have any of the bad green 1drop dudes.

Kird ape is fine, but I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't one upped in the upcoming set. We shall see.

Quote from Theogony_IX

I guess my question is, are Loam Lion and Kird Ape ever played in a deck without green spells? If I were to re-include them in my cube this is how they would be played and I am wondering if that is worth it.

Only if you have fetches/duals, yes sometimes. If you don't, probably very rarely. However, even without supporting green aggro, having aggro decks that play forests and green spells will happen pretty often.

I won't play forests just to pump them in a deck with no other green spells. But running dual lands wouldn't change this fact. I don't play Kird Ape in a R/W deck just because one of my mountains is a Taiga.

I was thinking about cutting Kird Ape and Loam Lion. Would you guys consider it to be a wrong move? How much would the cube miss them?

I was thinking about replacing their spot in the multi-color section by Dryad Militant and Tattermunge Maniac, cards that I classify in the moment as mono-color. I'm evaluating this possibility in order to make some space in the White and Red section. I might do the same with Kitchen Finks and Rackdos Cackler for the exact same reason.

I haven't played Lion or Ape for a long time. They're good in 1 specific deck, but the hybrid guys are a lot more flexible.

Nacatl is still a beast, on the other hand.

Nacatl is a one mana 2/2 for two different decks (which are both played in our cube) and is a 3/3 in one particular archetype (which also comes together). Definitely merits inclusion and is versatile enough that it's a decent fit in the G section.

I think Kird Apes will actually get stronger as we keep getting more 2-power one drops. Three toughness on your one drop trumps pretty much everything at one mana and a huge number of things at two

Quote from PyreDream »

I think Kird Apes will actually get stronger as we keep getting more 2-power one drops. Three toughness on your one drop trumps pretty much everything at one mana and a huge number of things at two

Fully agree here, in this day n age of 2/1 and 2/2 creatures, a 2/3 for 1 mana is still a beast (ape) to deal with. Can't really see cutting him for anything currently.

Wondering if anyone might be giving these guys a fresh look with the advent of these cycling tri-lands w basic types. I also run the cycling duals. Would be particularly nice if we saw a Shard cycle of them, but regardless I'm curious if we might be approaching a point where getting the basics we want is trivial.

I think I'd still sooner run Dryad Militant over the cat, but having never liked Tattermunge I see appeal in kird ape. Thoughts?

Quote from Blue_Oneironaut »

Wondering if anyone might be giving these guys a fresh look with the advent of these cycling tri-lands w basic types. I also run the cycling duals. Would be particularly nice if we saw a Shard cycle of them, but regardless I'm curious if we might be approaching a point where getting the basics we want is trivial.

I think I'd still sooner run Dryad Militant over the cat, but having never liked Tattermunge I see appeal in kird ape. Thoughts?

You really don't want to be playing ETB tapped lands (triomes/cycle duals) in agro. I'd way rather have my one drops be a 2/1 and all my lands entered untapped, than have them be 2/3's and have a bunch of tapped lands.