I think this guy can even go in an aggressive deck if you've got a bonesplitter or something.
That's two more dudes to swing an axe around.
Isn't Ranger of Eos good? (I understand that Ranger of Eos gets a different sample of cards, but I believe there is a lot of situational overlap when it comes to playing Imperial Recruiter in an aggro deck.)
This guy seems pretty sweet in a deck with Deranged Hermit or Siege-gang, but it seems mediocre at all other times.
It's really not. It turns out that there are a TON of good creatures to go get, across all the colors. Using it as a toolbox creature to find answers, or to help curve out, or get one of the higher cc creatures with low power; Recruiter does a lot.
This guy seems pretty sweet in a deck with Deranged Hermit or Siege-gang, but it seems mediocre at all other times.
Creatures used to be defined by their power/toughness but recently creatures come along with a lot of utility. For example Phantasmal Image and Phyrexian Metamorph are 0/0s yet great in almost any stage of a game.
Quick list of great fetch targets:
Sower of Temptation
Hornet Queen
Braids
Glen Elendra Archmage
Phantasmal Image
Snapcaster Mage
Phyrexian Metamorph
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Acidic Slime
Eternal Witness
Phantom Centaur
Deranged Hermit
Siege-gang Commander
Geist of Saint Traft
Huntmaster of the Fells
Murderous Redcap
Pack Rat
Vampire Nighthawk
Karmic Guide
Blade Splicer
sure, viridian shaman isn't a flashy pick. but the beauty of a tutor is you get what you need when you need it. and there's plenty of times when i really needed shaman or something like it. the list gets bigger the more combo-type archetypes you support.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Braids would definitely be sick nasty with this guy, as would Hornet Queen. I don't like most of these cards with Recruiter because it is so inefficient in a red deck. I don't want to spend my turn 3 tutoring up a Mulldrifter. Of course there is a huge list of cards in Cube that have 2 power or less and are great cards, but are they worth timewalking yourself on turn 3 to go find, and is it worth having 2 copies of that card over something else? I am definitely seeing how the Recruiter could be great in a certain BR deck - I like what I see there in terms of archetypal fetch-able cards, but most of the cards on the list of "great" targets aren't cards that I would want to spend 3 mana and a turn to find. Geist of Saint Traft? I hope my opponent plays Imperial Recruiter and searches for a Geist in some weird UWR deck. Avalanche Riders is a great card, but what if you had to pay 3 mana and timewalk yourself on turn 3 so that you could play it on turn 4? Meh...
I still think it's mediocre, but it is great when you can explode into something like a Siege-gang or Deranged Hermit. It also seems great with Braids - I love me a good BR Braids deck...
Your argument doesn't take into account that this guy is a tutor! It's all about having the right answer at the right time. For example tutoring up a Avalanche Riders to blow up a dual land is decent but... tutoring up Avalanche Riders to blow up a man land is a beating.
I'd run Geist of Saint Traft + Imperial Recruiter in WUR deck, of course as long as my fixing is there and assuming I have some other worthwhile targets.
Three mana is a lot for a tutor though... Like a 1/1 is so irrelevant in anything other than a Skullclamp deck. This guy would be insane as a 2/2 though. I guess it depends on how fast your Cube is, but in a regular Cube (NOT like the janky slow MTGO Cube...) I feel like he is just too slow. I am not saying the card is bad, I just feel like it is mediocre. If he is so great, why isn't everyone running him? And budget isn't a real answer, because half these Cube have power or use proxies. It's a cool fringe card for sure though.
If he is so great, why isn't everyone running him? And budget isn't a real answer, because half these Cube have power or use proxies. It's a cool fringe card for sure though.
Some people still refuses to proxy or include portal or whatever. And in tight cube you often give only one identity to a color so I guess for 100% aggro red he is rather weak.
If he is so great, why isn't everyone running him? And budget isn't a real answer, because half these Cube have power or use proxies.
I don't run portal, which is why I also don't run Ravages of War or Rolling Earthquake. Those three would be snap includes but portal just doesn't feel like real magic to me even though it technically is.
If he is so great, why isn't everyone running him?
A lot of reasons. First, he's a $300 white-bordered uncommon. Second, some people just don't like Portal cards, so they ban them all. Third, when the card was initially tested by a lot of players in older cubes, it got bad reviews. It's better than it used to be because there's a lot of good targets for it that weren't around or weren't being cubed before. And lastly, there are a lot of good cards that are underplayed. For one reason or another, people just don't like certain cards and they wind up being excluded. This is quite possibly one of those examples of under-appreciated effects, because it's not widely playtested yet.
A lot of reasons. First, he's a $300 white-bordered uncommon. Second, some people just don't like Portal cards, so they ban them all. Third, when the card was initially tested by a lot of players in older cubes, it got bad reviews. It's better than it used to be because there's a lot of good targets for it that weren't around or weren't being cubed before. And lastly, there are a lot of good cards that are underplayed. For one reason or another, people just don't like certain cards and they wind up being excluded. This is quite possibly one of those examples of under-appreciated effects, because it's not widely playtested yet.
Also, I think people are still having trouble thinking of red as anything but an aggro color, and he's not good in aggro. As people start including Squee, Sneak Attack, Wildfire, etc., I think you are beginning to see more people split red between aggro and some other strategies, and that's where this guy is going to start shining.
Consider Grim Tutor. That card arguably has less restrictions than Imperial Recruiter, but according to Eidolon's comparison data, it sees play in only 1% of cubes on Salvation. As a creature rather than a spell, the Recruiter is slightly better, but its tutoring restriction puts it at about equal desirability for me. And three mana is beyond the upper limit for tutors - the strength of tutors is their ability to get an answer right away, and that cost greatly reduces your chances of using your answer immediately. So I think an adoption rate of 5% or less is pretty fair for this guy. Cubers might raise the objection that black's high quality of tutors makes Grim Tutor less necessary than Recruiter in red, but I would question that objection by pointing out that having a consistency of effects in one color might be just as valuable as having a unique effect in another color.
Also, I think people are still having trouble thinking of red as anything but an aggro color, and he's not good in aggro. As people start including Squee, Sneak Attack, Wildfire, etc., I think you are beginning to see more people split red between aggro and some other strategies, and that's where this guy is going to start shining.
This is absolutely true. I think as red's identity shifts to doing more interesting things and less of just aggro, he'll get more popular.
Consider Grim Tutor. That card arguably has less restrictions than Imperial Recruiter, but according to Eidolon's comparison data, it sees play in only 1% of cubes on Salvation. As a creature rather than a spell, the Recruiter is slightly better, but its tutoring restriction puts it at about equal desirability for me. And three mana is beyond the upper limit for tutors - the strength of tutors is their ability to get an answer right away, and that cost greatly reduces your chances of using your answer immediately. So I think an adoption rate of 5% or less is pretty fair for this guy. Cubers might raise the objection that black's high quality of tutors makes Grim Tutor less necessary than Recruiter in red, but I would question that objection by pointing out that having a consistency of effects in one color might be just as valuable as having a unique effect in another color.
Grim Tutor is a fine card, but it still doesn't make the cut in my black section. Black does have at least 3 or 4 better tutors already, which is a pretty large amount for small-medium sized cubes.
But Recruiter doesn't cost you any life, it gives you a creature instead of the straight card parity (which despite being small still comes with value attached to it), it's splashable and it's the only effect of its kind in its color. Grim Tutor is none of those things.
Yet I've added it back in 2010 because of Tarmogoyf
Could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure goyf's P/T are calculated when in the library too, so recruiter can only get him if he would be 2/3 or less.
Still worth getting since he eventually gets larger, but worth noting.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
You can't fetch goyf unless he'd be a 2/3 or less on the battlefield. His stats are calculated continuously.
Actually all */* creatures are calculated continuously, like Nightmare or Sewer Nemesis.. these cards constantly check the power and toughness based on their condition (eg number of swamps in play, or cards in grave).
That's why cards that start with 0/0 and adds +1/+1 counters are great with Recruiter. Phantom Centaur and Triskelion are great targets for Recruiter.
Actually all */* creatures are calculated continuously, like Nightmare or Sewer Nemesis.. these cards constantly check the power and toughness based on their condition (eg number of swamps in play, or cards in grave).
Actually, Sewer Nemesis can be targeted, because it doesn't have a power value until it resolves (you have to pick a graveyard as an ETB trigger).
Quote from nightwing1 »
That's why cards that start with 0/0 and adds +1/+1 counters are great with Recruiter. Phantom Centaur and Triskelion are great targets for Recruiter.
The Clones are also good targets, because they have zero power before they resolve.
That's two more dudes to swing an axe around.
Isn't Ranger of Eos good? (I understand that Ranger of Eos gets a different sample of cards, but I believe there is a lot of situational overlap when it comes to playing Imperial Recruiter in an aggro deck.)
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It's really not. It turns out that there are a TON of good creatures to go get, across all the colors. Using it as a toolbox creature to find answers, or to help curve out, or get one of the higher cc creatures with low power; Recruiter does a lot.
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Creatures used to be defined by their power/toughness but recently creatures come along with a lot of utility. For example Phantasmal Image and Phyrexian Metamorph are 0/0s yet great in almost any stage of a game.
Quick list of great fetch targets:
Sower of Temptation
Hornet Queen
Braids
Glen Elendra Archmage
Phantasmal Image
Snapcaster Mage
Phyrexian Metamorph
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Acidic Slime
Eternal Witness
Phantom Centaur
Deranged Hermit
Siege-gang Commander
Geist of Saint Traft
Huntmaster of the Fells
Murderous Redcap
Pack Rat
Vampire Nighthawk
Karmic Guide
Blade Splicer
Great with Splinter Twin combos too!
Pestermite
Deceiver Exarch
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
i don't currently run recruiter, but i'd feel pretty happy fetching the following, especially if i had a few of them in my deck:
manic vandal, ghitu slinger, avalanche riders, stoneforge mystic, kor sanctifiers, phantasmal image, snapcaster mage, glen elendra archmage, sower of temptation, meloku, the clouded mirror, mulldrifter, bloodghast, vampire hexmage, pack rat, bone shredder, braids, cabal minion, nekrataal, rofellos, llanowar emissary, eternal witness, viridian shaman, uktabi orangutan, acidic slime, hornet queen, phyrexian revoker, phyrexian metamorph, solemn simulacrum, qasali pridemage, etc.
sure, viridian shaman isn't a flashy pick. but the beauty of a tutor is you get what you need when you need it. and there's plenty of times when i really needed shaman or something like it. the list gets bigger the more combo-type archetypes you support.
edit: beaten
Linking up all those cards set you back
I still think it's mediocre, but it is great when you can explode into something like a Siege-gang or Deranged Hermit. It also seems great with Braids - I love me a good BR Braids deck...
I'd run Geist of Saint Traft + Imperial Recruiter in WUR deck, of course as long as my fixing is there and assuming I have some other worthwhile targets.
There were plenty of really good cards that people here didn't run for a while - cards like Elesh Norn, Primeval Titan, Consecrated Sphinx, Geralf's Messenger and Master of the Wild Hunt are prime examples of cards that were initially panned and are now at various stages of catching on here.
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I don't run portal, which is why I also don't run Ravages of War or Rolling Earthquake. Those three would be snap includes but portal just doesn't feel like real magic to me even though it technically is.
Sure, red's primary focus in your cube can be aggro, and that will encourage you to include Lightning Bolt and burn spells in your cube.
That doesn't mean a control deck can't pick up Lightning Bolt, Imperial Recruiters, Avalance Riders, Manic Vandal and a few other choice targets and justify red cards in a control deck.
Even in aggro, this guy is a mini-Ranger of Eos which a lot of people consider to be a staple of cube (Boros/Naya) aggro.
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A lot of reasons. First, he's a $300 white-bordered uncommon. Second, some people just don't like Portal cards, so they ban them all. Third, when the card was initially tested by a lot of players in older cubes, it got bad reviews. It's better than it used to be because there's a lot of good targets for it that weren't around or weren't being cubed before. And lastly, there are a lot of good cards that are underplayed. For one reason or another, people just don't like certain cards and they wind up being excluded. This is quite possibly one of those examples of under-appreciated effects, because it's not widely playtested yet.
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Also, I think people are still having trouble thinking of red as anything but an aggro color, and he's not good in aggro. As people start including Squee, Sneak Attack, Wildfire, etc., I think you are beginning to see more people split red between aggro and some other strategies, and that's where this guy is going to start shining.
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This is absolutely true. I think as red's identity shifts to doing more interesting things and less of just aggro, he'll get more popular.
Grim Tutor is a fine card, but it still doesn't make the cut in my black section. Black does have at least 3 or 4 better tutors already, which is a pretty large amount for small-medium sized cubes.
But Recruiter doesn't cost you any life, it gives you a creature instead of the straight card parity (which despite being small still comes with value attached to it), it's splashable and it's the only effect of its kind in its color. Grim Tutor is none of those things.
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Could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure goyf's P/T are calculated when in the library too, so recruiter can only get him if he would be 2/3 or less.
Still worth getting since he eventually gets larger, but worth noting.
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Actually all */* creatures are calculated continuously, like Nightmare or Sewer Nemesis.. these cards constantly check the power and toughness based on their condition (eg number of swamps in play, or cards in grave).
That's why cards that start with 0/0 and adds +1/+1 counters are great with Recruiter. Phantom Centaur and Triskelion are great targets for Recruiter.
Actually, Sewer Nemesis can be targeted, because it doesn't have a power value until it resolves (you have to pick a graveyard as an ETB trigger).
The Clones are also good targets, because they have zero power before they resolve.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!