I currently only play Signets, Mind Stone and Worn Powerstone. I don't currently have Everflowing Chalice, Coalition Relic and Chromatic Lantern. Cards like Chalice and Relic do offer you fast mana but are not overpowered. I don't know what yo would usually do with Everflowing Chalice? Do you play it turn 2 with one counter on it? Do you wait until turn 4 and put 2 counters on it? I feel like having mana rocks is a good thing except possibly with Sol Ring.
I have been thinking of adding more powerful cards to my unpowered cube like Koth the Hammer and Gideon Jura. These are really powerful planeswalkers but not as good as sol ring. I guess the issue some people are having with Sol Ring has more to do with what cards are in their cube. If Sol Ring makes it so you can play a planeswalker turn 2 that could be a problem for your opponent.
I don't know what yo would usually do with Everflowing Chalice? Do you play it turn 2 with one counter on it? Do you wait until turn 4 and put 2 counters on it?
That's the beauty of Everflowing Chalice. It can be whatever the situation calls for. It's decent in all modes, it's super flexible and it can be snagged by Trinket Mage :).
I've always viewed Sol Ring as the single best card in cube. In an unpowered cube, it is just way too oppressive and leads to unbeatable board states. Turn 1 land, ring, signet is very difficult to beat in an unpowered cube.
I don't know what yo would usually do with Everflowing Chalice? Do you play it turn 2 with one counter on it? Do you wait until turn 4 and put 2 counters on it?
Real men play Everflowing Chalice on Turn Zero because artifacts.
I might give it another shot, as I have some artifact dead weight in my cube.
I had another question about mana rocks... How many rocks and of how high a quality do you think a cube needs to make Wildfire/Upheaval real players against fast Boros beats (which is a ever present archetype whenever my cube gets drafted)?
I had another question about mana rocks... How many rocks and of how high a quality do you think a cube needs to make Wildfire/Upheaval real players against fast Boros beats (which is a ever present archetype whenever my cube gets drafted)?
Having signets definitely helps Wildfire a lot. Mana rocks help Upheaval too, but Upheaval plays well with green's mana ramp creatures while Wildfire does not. In my 450 cube, I run Upheaval, but not Wildfire, with:
Mox Diamond
Chrome Mox
Coalition Relic
Prismatic Lens
Everflowing Chalice
Worn Powerstone
Coldsteel Heart
Grim Monolith
Chromatic Lantern
Simic Signet
Also, my green ramp section is very creature-oriented, which plays better with Upheaval than land-based ramp. I've been thinking about adding Wildfire/Burning of Xinye, but if I did, they would definitely come along with more mana rocks - Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo, and assorted Signets would be first off the bench.
I would recommend red anti-aggro cards. Pyroclasm, Arc Trail and Slagstorm are all great cards to give red an extra dimension. In a ramp deck, casting a sweeper on an early turn buys you way more time than you would save from playing an additional ramp spell. It also gives other colors more incentive to go into red, so your aggro players will have to fight for those universally good burn spells.
I have the first two already. I see what you are getting at though. I am indeed trying to make sure red has some alternate homes besides Boros. Doesn't stop me from going that way a good bit. Once Gatecrash hits and I have some idea of what I might be looking to add, I'll know if its time for a breakdown and tune up, but I wanted to pick brains before I did.
Crypt above everything except Ring. It's a zero-cost ring with a drawback that rarely matters because you just got a time stretch for free.
Monolith above gilded and mind stone.
But when it does matter, it's huge. 3 damage is a lot when you're close to 0. I've had games in lock down before on the board, but been on the verge of losing--and have seen games lost--because all the damage Crypt does. Don't get me wrong, it's really sweet, but god damn can this card bite you in the ass.
But when it does matter, it's huge. 3 damage is a lot when you're close to 0. I've had games in lock down before on the board, but been on the verge of losing--and have seen games lost--because all the damage Crypt does. Don't get me wrong, it's really sweet, but god damn can this card bite you in the ass.
Agreed. P1P1 I'd take Black Lotus or any Mox over a Crypt. Sulfuric Vortexing yourself is a major drawback.
I don't know why there can't be a sliding scale of power in a cube?
Just because a deck can be CAPABLE of doing insanely broken T2/T3 plays is not THAT important.
What's much more important is the FREQUENCY that this can occur.
If you have the 5 mox, black lotus, crypt, vault, monolith, sol ring, channel, mox diamond, chrome mox, black lotus.
There is a level of fast mana redundancy taking place that makes these plays semi consistent in a variety of decks.
Broken things become common place as opposed to a rare exception.
I like an unpowered cube with a few fast mana cards that can OCCASIONALLY create broken, uninteractive scenarios.
I don't know why there can't be a sliding scale of power in a cube?
Just because a deck can be CAPABLE of doing insanely broken T2/T3 plays is not THAT important.
What's much more important is the FREQUENCY that this can occur.
If you have the 5 mox, black lotus, crypt, vault, monolith, sol ring, channel, mox diamond, chrome mox, black lotus.
There is a level of fast mana redundancy taking place that makes these plays semi consistent in a variety of decks.
Broken things become common place as opposed to a rare exception.
I like an unpowered cube with a few fast mana cards that can OCCASIONALLY create broken, uninteractive scenarios.
Pretty much this, and why I am currently running with the moxes, monolith and no other fast mana. Not saying that's the right amount to prevent consistent degenerate states, just that I agree a critical mass is needed to create the problem.
I think the other thing to consider is the power level of high casting cards in your cube. Most people run titans, wurmcoil engine, etc. And those cards outright win games most of the time (thus making fast mana potentially game breaking). But if the best five / six mana creatures in your cube are Serra Angel / Skeletal Vampire, fast mana loses some of its punch. Neither of those cards outright win you the game, so a T1 mox and sol ring that leads to a turn 2/3 five/six drop is not quite as degenerate.
I realize that's a fairly extreme example above (what cube even runs batman anymore, let alone have this be the best 6 drop in the cube). Point is, fast mana by itself will not necessarily warp the meta. It takes other extremely powerful cards to take advantage of the acceleration.
I opted against including Sol Ring in my C/U cube for power reasons. It being the only piece of "power" that fits the rarity criteria meant that it was just so far ahead of the curve set by the rest of the cards. I've seen it do too many degenerate things in my rare cube (which is what I want from that cube) that I felt like it was just too much for a peasant cube.
Of the three cards listed above, I think Grim Monolith would be the only one I'd run without power. The other two just provide too much advantage, especially Sol Ring.
I don't run fast mana in my cube. I am only using mana rocks in my cube. I have my cube set up with Mind Stone, Worn Powerstone and Coalition Relic. I think cards like Sol Ring give too much of advantage. It speeds up things 2 turns instead of 1. It allows you to outrace your opponent.
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I have been thinking of adding more powerful cards to my unpowered cube like Koth the Hammer and Gideon Jura. These are really powerful planeswalkers but not as good as sol ring. I guess the issue some people are having with Sol Ring has more to do with what cards are in their cube. If Sol Ring makes it so you can play a planeswalker turn 2 that could be a problem for your opponent.
That's the beauty of Everflowing Chalice. It can be whatever the situation calls for. It's decent in all modes, it's super flexible and it can be snagged by Trinket Mage :).
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Real men play Everflowing Chalice on Turn Zero because artifacts.
I might give it another shot, as I have some artifact dead weight in my cube.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
Having signets definitely helps Wildfire a lot. Mana rocks help Upheaval too, but Upheaval plays well with green's mana ramp creatures while Wildfire does not. In my 450 cube, I run Upheaval, but not Wildfire, with:
Mox Diamond
Chrome Mox
Coalition Relic
Prismatic Lens
Everflowing Chalice
Worn Powerstone
Coldsteel Heart
Grim Monolith
Chromatic Lantern
Simic Signet
Also, my green ramp section is very creature-oriented, which plays better with Upheaval than land-based ramp. I've been thinking about adding Wildfire/Burning of Xinye, but if I did, they would definitely come along with more mana rocks - Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo, and assorted Signets would be first off the bench.
I have the first two already. I see what you are getting at though. I am indeed trying to make sure red has some alternate homes besides Boros. Doesn't stop me from going that way a good bit. Once Gatecrash hits and I have some idea of what I might be looking to add, I'll know if its time for a breakdown and tune up, but I wanted to pick brains before I did.
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
But when it does matter, it's huge. 3 damage is a lot when you're close to 0. I've had games in lock down before on the board, but been on the verge of losing--and have seen games lost--because all the damage Crypt does. Don't get me wrong, it's really sweet, but god damn can this card bite you in the ass.
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Agreed. P1P1 I'd take Black Lotus or any Mox over a Crypt. Sulfuric Vortexing yourself is a major drawback.
Just because a deck can be CAPABLE of doing insanely broken T2/T3 plays is not THAT important.
What's much more important is the FREQUENCY that this can occur.
If you have the 5 mox, black lotus, crypt, vault, monolith, sol ring, channel, mox diamond, chrome mox, black lotus.
There is a level of fast mana redundancy taking place that makes these plays semi consistent in a variety of decks.
Broken things become common place as opposed to a rare exception.
I like an unpowered cube with a few fast mana cards that can OCCASIONALLY create broken, uninteractive scenarios.
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Pretty much this, and why I am currently running with the moxes, monolith and no other fast mana. Not saying that's the right amount to prevent consistent degenerate states, just that I agree a critical mass is needed to create the problem.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I realize that's a fairly extreme example above (what cube even runs batman anymore, let alone have this be the best 6 drop in the cube). Point is, fast mana by itself will not necessarily warp the meta. It takes other extremely powerful cards to take advantage of the acceleration.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I don't run fast mana in my cube. I am only using mana rocks in my cube. I have my cube set up with Mind Stone, Worn Powerstone and Coalition Relic. I think cards like Sol Ring give too much of advantage. It speeds up things 2 turns instead of 1. It allows you to outrace your opponent.