MTG Salvation

I recently did another large aggro upgrade to my cube. First it was one drops, now it was two drops. White received the most. I started wondering how much is too much and which guys are the best, especially out of the WW creatures. I am curious how these different guys have performed for people. Feel free to check out my cube if you have any cut/add suggestions. I realize that Jotun Grunt & Wall of Omens arn't aggro guys but they are on my list of two drops so I included them here.

I now run the following in 630 powered:

WW:
1 Knight of the White Orchid1 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Precinct Captain
1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Serra Avenger

W1:
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Mistral Charger
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Jotun Grunt1 Lone Missionary
1 Knight of Glory
1 Kor Skyfisher
1 Wall of Omens
1 Cloistered Youth
1 Porcelain Legionnaire

I don't like Jotun Grunt and Serra Avenger. They just don't work on turn two. The Grunt kills itself even. I'd run Soltari Trooper or Stormfront Pegasus over either of them.

Also, Nearheath Pilgrim has been pretty good for me. He can really mess up someone's plans.

On Knight of the White Orchid: If you are being aggressive, you'll want to be on the play where he's pretty mediocre. The knight helps you recover if you aren't, but unless you are running enough 4-drops, he doesn't actually seem to do a ton. (But white has some good fours, so...) I just don't think he's as consistent as I'd want in a WW card.

I think from this list you could cut 2-3 cards. I ran 19 at 720, and now at 540 I run 14 2 drop white cards. Here are some thoughts on potential cuts

Quote from GreenBeastDeck

WW:
1 Knight of the White Orchid Not as good as the other WW knights
1 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Precinct Captain
1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Serra Avenger Shouldn't really be classified as a two drop as it can't be cast on curve as a two drop.

W1:
1 Kataki, War's Wage May be good in powered cubes, underwhelming outside of them.
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Mistral Charger
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Jotun Grunt Good late game, but again not a card you can cast on your second turn.
1 Lone Missionary
1 Knight of Glory There are better white two-drops than this guy. Knight of Infamy for black sections is much better than Knight of Glory for white sections.
1 Kor Skyfisher
1 Wall of Omens
1 Cloistered Youth
1 Porcelain Legionnaire

You are also missing one of my favourite two drops: Soltari Trooper. Also if you want some redundancy, Stormfront Pegasus is another good 2 drop.

EDIT: Retra got my answers in while I was replying

1. Like others have said, Soltari Trooper and Stormfront Pegasus are missing. If I'm going W/X aggro, I'll draft the 2/1 flyers all day long.

2. I consider Porcelain Legionnaire colorless because any aggro deck would love to have a 3/1 first strike for 2 and 2 life. You could move him to colorless to free up a slot.

3. 8.5 tails is more of a mid-range / control card, and even then, he's more of a 5 mana card. Aggro decks normally don't use this guy. I cut him from my cube entirely a while ago.

4. My 540 unpowered runs 15. I think your list is a little too big. Cut the 4 fidelis suggested + 8.5 tails, add in Soltari Trooper and Stormfront Pegasus, and your list will be rock-solid.

I think for a cube your size, you probably have maybe 2-3 too many. From that list, I'd remove Serra Avenger, Knight of Glory and Jotun Grunt and add in Soltari Trooper.

I would play the new 3/1 battlion-flyer over a number of the ones in his list.

Even for a powered Cube I don't know that Kataki is great, I'd definitely be playing Leonin Relic-Warder first. I think LRW is better than Kor Sanctifiers, at least in powered (but probably everywhere since Sanctificers isn't that good)

To those objecting to Serra Avenger and 8.5 Tails, shouldn't you also be mentioning that Kor Skyfisher is a pretty bad-to-horrible two drop as well?

On Knight of the White Orchid: If you are being aggressive, you'll want to be on the play where he's pretty mediocre. The knight helps you recover if you aren't, but unless you are running enough 4-drops, he doesn't actually seem to do a ton. (But white has some good fours, so...) I just don't think he's as consistent as I'd want in a card.

If you put him in a land light deck he can often get you that third mana and coming down on curve won't be as important since you probably have multiple two drops.

Quote from KBH

To those objecting to Serra Avenger and 8.5 Tails, shouldn't you also be mentioning that Kor Skyfisher is a pretty bad-to-horrible two drop as well?

Kor Skyfisher? No, that's a really strong 2 drop.

Agreed. Plus, I can cast it on T2. So by definition, it's a better 2-drop than a card that can't be.

Quote from OP_Forever

Kor Skyfisher? No, that's a really strong 2 drop.

Turn 2 Skyfisher, return a land is, umm, not "really strong"

No, but it's still reasonable. Especially in hard aggro with a low curve. And it also has a lot of applications in the mid-game, as well as being a good defensive creature in the mirror. And it's amazing with moxen.

Quote from wtwlf123

No, but it's still reasonable. Especially in hard aggro with a low curve. And it also has a lot of applications in the mid-game, as well as being a good defensive creature in the mirror. And it's amazing with moxen.

The claim was that its a "really strong" 2 drop. Outside of "amazing with Moxen" (which is redundant, no?) tell me a scenario where it is "really strong" on curve.

In hard aggro, you aren't going to pull many tricks off its ability really. So then it is a 2 power flier for 2 on offense. It plays better defense than the other fliers but it is also more awkward and less aggressive.

And, if it isn't strong on curve (which it isn't), then it starts to (poorly) compare more to Serra Avenger rather than any of the two drops.

I get why this card is good in a few niche decks, but I seriously struggle to see how it is a good Cube card overall.

The claim was that its a "really strong" 2 drop. Outside of "amazing with Moxen" (which is redundant, no?) tell me a scenario where it is "really strong" on curve.

Situations where you can stunt an aggro opponent from attacking you because of the 2/3 body, or in instances where you're on 2 lands in your opener so it doesn't disrupt your mana development at all.

And that's only T2 value. It ha a TON of value later in the curve. A solid T2 play in aggro that just gets better as the game goes on. That's exactly what I want from my 2-drops.

It's also super awesome with Sarcomancy on T2. Or on T3 bringing a Keldon Marauders back.

Quote from KBH

Turn 2 Skyfisher, return a land is, umm, not "really strong"

agreed. the card is almost always terrible turn two. it's more like a four drop.

Yay, another discussion that has devolved into a Kor Skyfisher debate.

That's OK, I'll just chime in to say that even though 8.5 Tails acts as a more-than-2 drop, there is no way he is every getting cut from my Cube. While certainly not overwhelming as a 2/2 for WW, the amount of games he is capable (and has) won on his own are easily worth keeping him in.

I'd cut Kataki and the Grunt, I think.

-AA