So I have been a fan of Stax like decks for some time, but I recently came across some of the old Parallax cards which I use to play in casual decks way back when.
What are some ways we can continue to put counters on these cards effectively in cube? I know we have mechanics like Proliferate and cards like Parallax Inhibitor, but what cards can strengthen these cards while offering something to other decks?
I don't know every way to interact with counters so I am sure there are some gems.
Parallax Wave is pretty popular around here. Nullifying two creatures for three turns with options on ETB abusal or Wrath of God shenanigans? Call me in. Parallax Wave gets cubed, but more rarely I guess (eidolon, help!) as its applications are more narrow, but still very good. I haven't seen anyone talking about Nexus. Doesn't affect the board is what kills it I guess.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Parallax Wave is pretty popular around here. Nullifying two creatures for three turns with options on ETB abusal or Wrath of God shenanigans? Call me in. Parallax Wave gets cubed, but more rarely I guess (eidolon, help!) as its applications are more narrow, but still very good. I haven't seen anyone talking about Nexus. Doesn't affect the board is what kills it I guess.
After the success of Wave in our cube we just added Tide. It's been a pretty solid resource denial card that gives blue an effect it otherwise doesn't have.
I don't think any of those cards are nearly as good as Tide. The major difference being that I can still play all my spells while tide is tying up two of my opponents lands for four turns, or three of their lands for three turns. Power Sink shouldn't be in the discussion.
I'd say Contagion Clasp is debatable in terms of playability...
I wish proliferate cards were better, because I love the mechanic. Sadly, Contagion Clasp has always been an underperformed in my cube. I just haven't cut it because once in a while someone comes up with a crazy combo-ish deck that uses it. I consider it unplayable in most cubes.
We played about 8 'rounds' with 3 games each of the cube, just me and some buddies as a sealed event.
Parallax Wave and Parralax Tide were played a bunch and we were all very impressed with their applications.
I used wave a lot of the time to just shield my dudes or force ETB triggers again, where everyone else used them to just aggro out and alpha strike for the win. Paralllax Tide was used in tempo decks to stick a threat, nuke their land and just go to town with a Wake Thrasher or something.
Parallax Nexus did not see much play, idk if there is the support for it since black aggro is not very strong in my cube, and there is no way to really take advantage of it to a great extent... not sure what cards could surround it to make it more powerful...
I'd say Contagion Clasp is debatable in terms of playability...
I played clasp for about 2 months. It was fantastic in one match but didn't do much any other time and was subsequently cut.
Parallax Wave has always been a fun card. Parallax Tide intrigues me because I keep picturing it in a U/G ramp deck for some reason (probably my favourite combination).
I built a U/B Tempo deck tonight with Parallax Tide, and it was super fun and powerful! While playing against an aggro R/B/W deck, I remanded his Ball Lightning, then proceeded to cast Parallax Tide and exiled his 2 mountains and a Sacred Foundry so he couldn't cast it again. In another game, I locked out his 3 shocklands, and really denied his mana with Winter Orb. After I won the game he flashed me his Banefire, saying that if I hadn't locked out the lands he would've won.
Another time, I was against Naya Midrange. I knew my opponent had a Sigarda in his hand via Duskmantle Seer (another sick card in U/B Tempo) and I slammed the Tide, locking out his 2 plains. What I didn't know was that he also had a Baneslayer Angel in the wings as well, and locking down his white source really hampered his plans to stabilize.
All in all, Parallax Tide can be an absolutely devastating card in a deck with the right support. Cards like Duskmantle Seer, Winter Orb, Remand, and Pestermite can really swing a game's tempo in your favor. If you support U/x Tempo at all I would highly recommend this card.
I can certainly see Parallax Tide as a pseudo-geddon for the tempo/aggro blue archetypes. I don't run it as I don't push the aggro/tempo thing, but I can see the value for sure.
I'm not confused, I'm just saying that I didn't want to start a whole discussion on Stifle and how good it may or may not be in Cube. Consequently, the cards need to be evaluated on their own merit, because I don't think Stifle as really all that worthy of inclusion.
It's like playing that b/g hybrid card that eats -1/-1 counters just to make your Devoted Druid better that you are considering adding.
I'm not confused, I'm just saying that I didn't want to start a whole discussion on Stifle and how good it may or may not be in Cube. Consequently, the cards need to be evaluated on their own merit, because I don't think Stifle as really all that worthy of inclusion.
It's like playing that b/g hybrid card that eats -1/-1 counters just to make your Devoted Druid better that you are considering adding.
-AA
No it isn't at all like that, because there are quite a few users who already run Stifle. It's a pretty good effect to have around, particularly in smaller cubes. Why would I mention it otherwise? We can't have everyone going "Hey, you realise that Recurring Nightmare (which I personally consider cubeable) is a good card with Survival of the fittest (which I personally consider cubeable), and that they work well with Squee (wh..." It should be reasonably obvious without that caveat that, if someone is referencing a synergy, they consider both cards at least borderline playable. And I'm clearly not the only one who thinks Stifle is cubeable at at least some size or another.
If you want to talk about Stifle on its own, there may already be a thread for that, or feel free to make one. My comment was perfectly in context of the discussion of... Parallax cards. If you're running Stifle already, and thinking about these cards, then it might help to sway your decision.
No it isn't at all like that, because there are quite a few users who already run Stifle. It's a pretty good effect to have around, particularly in smaller cubes. Why would I mention it otherwise? We can't have everyone going "Hey, you realise that Recurring Nightmare (which I personally consider cubeable) is a good card with Survival of the fittest (which I personally consider cubeable), and that they work well with Squee (wh..." It should be reasonably obvious without that caveat that, if someone is referencing a synergy, they consider both cards at least borderline playable. And I'm clearly not the only one who thinks Stifle is cubeable at at least some size or another.
If you want to talk about Stifle on its own, there may already be a thread for that, or feel free to make one. My comment was perfectly in context of the discussion of... Parallax cards. If you're running Stifle already, and thinking about these cards, then it might help to sway your decision.
Except that Survival and Nightmare are stone-cold lead pipe Cube auto-include locks, and Parallax Tide and Stifle are not. So while I see your point, I don't think the comparison really works.
MY point was that I didn't want to get involved in a long tangental discussion on how I think Stifle is a giant trap card in Cube that people are too results-oriented in evaluating (e.g., Stifling a Sword trigger/activation instead of just having a different spell in your deck/Cube that may have just dealt with it more permanently, like a counterspell). But I didn't want to get into that (my statement about how it is likely a different thread), so I was expressing my opinion subtly that Stifle is sketchy and that pointing it out would likely derail the real point of the conversation: whether or not the Parallax cards are good enough to include on their own merits.
I'm sure you think the card is worthy on some level, or else you wouldn't mention it. Plenty of people mention plenty of cards that they think are worthy on some level. I'm just not agreeing, and felt it was a disservice to mention it as part of an evaluation of a different card.
(And just because people some agree with you on something doesn't make it right or wrong...not a fan of that argument.)
Back to the topic: P Wave is awesome and is under-utilized IMO, P Tide is a fine addition to blue-based tempo decks (especially as we get big hitters before it on curve like Duskmantle Seer), and Nexus/Dementia/Inhibitor are stains-y.
MY point was that I didn't want to get involved in a long tangental discussion
But you DID get involved in a long tangential discussion on whether or not we should have a long tangential discussion
I agree that Parallax Wave is a fun, flexible, powerful card that should be considered for pretty much all cubes above 360 (and the fact that it isn't really a contender at 360 is an example of why I run a bigger cube). Parallax Tide seems like it could be good in blue tempo if that's a thing for you. None of the others seem cubable.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Except that Survival and Nightmare are stone-cold lead pipe Cube auto-include locks, and Parallax Tide and Stifle are not. So while I see your point, I don't think the comparison really works.
MY point was that I didn't want to get involved in a long tangental discussion on how I think Stifle is a giant trap card in Cube that people are too results-oriented in evaluating (e.g., Stifling a Sword trigger/activation instead of just having a different spell in your deck/Cube that may have just dealt with it more permanently, like a counterspell). But I didn't want to get into that (my statement about how it is likely a different thread), so I was expressing my opinion subtly that Stifle is sketchy and that pointing it out would likely derail the real point of the conversation: whether or not the Parallax cards are good enough to include on their own merits.
I'm sure you think the card is worthy on some level, or else you wouldn't mention it. Plenty of people mention plenty of cards that they think are worthy on some level. I'm just not agreeing, and felt it was a disservice to mention it as part of an evaluation of a different card.
-AA
That's my point though - I wouldn't want any user to refrain from making an interesting point because a card is less used than something like Recurring Nightmare or Survival. That's why I used those examples. It seems caddish not to mention a certain card in the thread, even if a majority don't use said card. Otherwise we just end up restricted to the same conversations about interactions that we all already know about, which is both boring and decidedly unhelpful. If one person finds that information about Stifle useful, it was obviously worth posting. If you think Stifle is sketchy, that's fine; I'd rather we discuss that in its own thread though.
And just because people some agree with you on something doesn't make it right or wrong...not a fan of that argument.
I'm not making an Appeal to Popularity: the information about an interaction is still relevant if some users run both the cards, regardless of any 'agreement' they may or may not have with me. Not sure where this is coming from.
Back to the topic: P Wave is awesome and is under-utilized IMO, P Tide is a fine addition to blue-based tempo decks (especially as we get big hitters before it on curve like Duskmantle Seer), and Nexus/Dementia/Inhibitor are stains-y.
Agreed. I was re-evaluating Nexus out of interest, but nah... still sucks.
Quote from Humpty »
I agree that Parallax Wave is a fun, flexible, powerful card that should be considered for pretty much all cubes above 360 (and the fact that it isn't really a contender at 360 is an example of why I run a bigger cube). Parallax Tide seems like it could be good in blue tempo if that's a thing for you. None of the others seem cubable.
I'm happy to say I'm still running Wave at 360. It's rather borderline though.
Quote from AA »
(e.g., Stifling a Sword trigger/activation instead of just having a different spell in your deck/Cube that may have just dealt with it more permanently, like a counterspell).
Actually it would be a worthwhile exercise to compile the good interactions that Stifle has. Countering a Sword activation is not a particulary good one, but it's a start. Fetches are a common one.
Using cards like Parallax Tide, Parallax Wave and Parallax Nexus along with some other resource denial cards to effectively create a control deck.
What are some ways we can continue to put counters on these cards effectively in cube? I know we have mechanics like Proliferate and cards like Parallax Inhibitor, but what cards can strengthen these cards while offering something to other decks?
I don't know every way to interact with counters so I am sure there are some gems.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
What I like about Nexus is that it cost 3, and in cube we have a multitude of sweepers for following it up with to just lock them out. Supreme Verdict, Wrath of God, Day of Judgment, Damnation, Cataclysm and even Parallax Wave.
They seem to be on curve for many control decks to help them lock out a game in a few ways.
There seems to be some support cards that are not entirely narrow such as Venser, the Sojourner.
Also nexus costs 3.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
I'd say Contagion Clasp is debatable in terms of playability...
I wish proliferate cards were better, because I love the mechanic. Sadly, Contagion Clasp has always been an underperformed in my cube. I just haven't cut it because once in a while someone comes up with a crazy combo-ish deck that uses it. I consider it unplayable in most cubes.
540 card Unpowered Cube
Parallax Wave and Parralax Tide were played a bunch and we were all very impressed with their applications.
I used wave a lot of the time to just shield my dudes or force ETB triggers again, where everyone else used them to just aggro out and alpha strike for the win. Paralllax Tide was used in tempo decks to stick a threat, nuke their land and just go to town with a Wake Thrasher or something.
Parallax Nexus did not see much play, idk if there is the support for it since black aggro is not very strong in my cube, and there is no way to really take advantage of it to a great extent... not sure what cards could surround it to make it more powerful...
I played clasp for about 2 months. It was fantastic in one match but didn't do much any other time and was subsequently cut.
Parallax Wave has always been a fun card. Parallax Tide intrigues me because I keep picturing it in a U/G ramp deck for some reason (probably my favourite combination).
Another time, I was against Naya Midrange. I knew my opponent had a Sigarda in his hand via Duskmantle Seer (another sick card in U/B Tempo) and I slammed the Tide, locking out his 2 plains. What I didn't know was that he also had a Baneslayer Angel in the wings as well, and locking down his white source really hampered his plans to stabilize.
All in all, Parallax Tide can be an absolutely devastating card in a deck with the right support. Cards like Duskmantle Seer, Winter Orb, Remand, and Pestermite can really swing a game's tempo in your favor. If you support U/x Tempo at all I would highly recommend this card.
Check out the Cube Discord channel here
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
Stifle is very broken with the wave cards. It's also very easy to pull off.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
It is a different thread, but playing Stifle isn't a reason to play the Parallax cards or vice versa.
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
It's like playing that b/g hybrid card that eats -1/-1 counters just to make your Devoted Druid better that you are considering adding.
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
Check out the Cube Discord channel here
No it isn't at all like that, because there are quite a few users who already run Stifle. It's a pretty good effect to have around, particularly in smaller cubes. Why would I mention it otherwise? We can't have everyone going "Hey, you realise that Recurring Nightmare (which I personally consider cubeable) is a good card with Survival of the fittest (which I personally consider cubeable), and that they work well with Squee (wh..." It should be reasonably obvious without that caveat that, if someone is referencing a synergy, they consider both cards at least borderline playable. And I'm clearly not the only one who thinks Stifle is cubeable at at least some size or another.
If you want to talk about Stifle on its own, there may already be a thread for that, or feel free to make one. My comment was perfectly in context of the discussion of... Parallax cards. If you're running Stifle already, and thinking about these cards, then it might help to sway your decision.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Except that Survival and Nightmare are stone-cold lead pipe Cube auto-include locks, and Parallax Tide and Stifle are not. So while I see your point, I don't think the comparison really works.
MY point was that I didn't want to get involved in a long tangental discussion on how I think Stifle is a giant trap card in Cube that people are too results-oriented in evaluating (e.g., Stifling a Sword trigger/activation instead of just having a different spell in your deck/Cube that may have just dealt with it more permanently, like a counterspell). But I didn't want to get into that (my statement about how it is likely a different thread), so I was expressing my opinion subtly that Stifle is sketchy and that pointing it out would likely derail the real point of the conversation: whether or not the Parallax cards are good enough to include on their own merits.
I'm sure you think the card is worthy on some level, or else you wouldn't mention it. Plenty of people mention plenty of cards that they think are worthy on some level. I'm just not agreeing, and felt it was a disservice to mention it as part of an evaluation of a different card.
(And just because people some agree with you on something doesn't make it right or wrong...not a fan of that argument.)
Back to the topic: P Wave is awesome and is under-utilized IMO, P Tide is a fine addition to blue-based tempo decks (especially as we get big hitters before it on curve like Duskmantle Seer), and Nexus/Dementia/Inhibitor are stains-y.
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
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But you DID get involved in a long tangential discussion on whether or not we should have a long tangential discussion
I agree that Parallax Wave is a fun, flexible, powerful card that should be considered for pretty much all cubes above 360 (and the fact that it isn't really a contender at 360 is an example of why I run a bigger cube). Parallax Tide seems like it could be good in blue tempo if that's a thing for you. None of the others seem cubable.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I know
I always get sucked in! *sigh*
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
That's my point though - I wouldn't want any user to refrain from making an interesting point because a card is less used than something like Recurring Nightmare or Survival. That's why I used those examples. It seems caddish not to mention a certain card in the thread, even if a majority don't use said card. Otherwise we just end up restricted to the same conversations about interactions that we all already know about, which is both boring and decidedly unhelpful. If one person finds that information about Stifle useful, it was obviously worth posting. If you think Stifle is sketchy, that's fine; I'd rather we discuss that in its own thread though.
I'm not making an Appeal to Popularity: the information about an interaction is still relevant if some users run both the cards, regardless of any 'agreement' they may or may not have with me. Not sure where this is coming from.
Agreed. I was re-evaluating Nexus out of interest, but nah... still sucks.
I'm happy to say I'm still running Wave at 360. It's rather borderline though.
Actually it would be a worthwhile exercise to compile the good interactions that Stifle has. Countering a Sword activation is not a particulary good one, but it's a start. Fetches are a common one.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms: