I wonder if Gut Shot would have as many targets as Mental Misstep. If remotely close I bet it's better as it can always help finish a creature or at least be bad burn to face making it more main-deckable. Less competition in it's color too. If numbers look Ok, I'll likely test it.
I saw a duplicate thread and it reminded me to come back and post here about my findings with this card.
We love it. It changes the whole dynamics of a game by countering something like hand disruption spell or aggro one drop or Sol Ring or Ritual or mana elf that the early turns would have been built around. It even counters some gold cards now we have Cackler and Militant! The best part is that it even does that on the draw or on the play. I've had it stuck in hand a couple of times waiting for a target, but that's fine: you never need to leave mana up for it. You just wait for that Path/Swords on your creature or that Reckless Charge or Tutor without breaking curve to do so. I've just gone and thrown this into aggro decks and it's wonderful there too, especially in the midrange matchup where killing their mana elf or Mom early is so important. For the narrow range of targets it has in terms of cost, it's absurd what it can hit for free.
I probably have more 1 CMC targets than most cubes as my average CMC is very low (about 2.6 I think). So that might make a difference.
Sorry for the duplicate! I was in a hurry and forgot to search first.
Anyways, I'm glad to hear it's been working out well. I imagined that it may be really good in smaller cubes with all of the high power 1 drops. It just doesn't seem to have any shortage of targets. It may end up dead late game, but I've still been Thoughtseized or had an opponent cast Ancestral in lategame, so even then it allows for some usage. Not to mention you never have to leave mana up to stop a Swords or Lightning Bolt. I have high hopes for it.
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The thing about most 1-drops is they aren't must counter spells. Countering a Llanowar Elf is nice. But it's not worth dedicating a slot to a narrow answer for.
Cube isn't like Legacy. Our games don't resolve around jockeying with our 1 and 2 drops.
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That's the remarkable thing about life. It's never so bad that it can't get worse
Calvin and Hobbes Cube Tutor
I disagree. Countering an aggro or ramp one drop without losing tempo is pretty strong against those archetypes. Countering a bolt, path, or thoughtseize could decide the game. I think I'll test this one.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
The thing about most 1-drops is they aren't must counter spells. Countering a Llanowar Elf is nice. But it's not worth dedicating a slot to a narrow answer for.
Cube isn't like Legacy. Our games don't resolve around jockeying with our 1 and 2 drops.
A lot of them are must-counter spells, and even then it generally totally throws someone's early turn plans back by a turn or more for the loss of no tempo or mana on my part, even for the 'non-critical' cards. Countering the turn one Elf is actually one of the more brutal plays - my opponent has probably got a 3 drop just waiting for T2 - but I could list a whole lot more. And these are often spells that I'd happily counter with a Force Spike or Mana Leak a couple of turns later. I reiterate the fact that there are few cards that can do this without needing any mana. Countering a one-drop before T1 AND playing my own one-drop or Thoughtseize by end of T1? That's busted. I've been on the end of MM so many times now, and it's usually savage. Even mid-late game it's good for protecting key critters from 1CMC removal.
In the typical U/x tempo decks where it's at its best, I aim for my opponent to never resolve a must-counter spell. MM is insurance in the early turns, while I am setting up my own game, that pushes those critical spells back a turn (against midrange), buys me more time (against aggro) or prevents a wide slice of disruption, tutoring or kill (against everything). And I speak from experience now, having had a considerable amount of time with this card to ensure that its good performance wasn't a one-off. I don't need to plan to use it. No-one sees it coming... it's just there, in hand, waiting to premptively trade with a Cackler or Thoughtseize or Mana Tithe or Land Tax, or whatever else my opponent was happy to see in his/her opener. For free. On T0. In the worst case, save it for a Lightning Bolt that your opponent topdecks. I've never lost a game with this sitting in hand for lack of a target.
I see some parallels with Legacy and small powered cubes, in that much is decided early in the game, and cheap/free countermagic is king there. I've had some success with Spell Pierce too, and I've been testing out Stifle which mainly sees use to counter fetches and big ETB triggers. I'm not sure about the latter yet, which is narrow in its applications, only creates card parity against fetchlands, and actually costs mana. In any case though, the point is moot. Cube != Legacy, but that doesn't mean that cards cannot be good across both formats. Although I'll freely admit that it was the insanity that this card caused in that format that caused me to rethink its potential use in Cube, after I sort of dismissed it out of hand.
So yeah, those are my thoughts after considerable playing time and seeding the card in drafts for a few months. It needs a low profile CMC (again, mine is about 2.6) to work proftably. Someone mentioned that they play decks without any 1 cost cards. I can't countenance that, but if that's a common drafting strategy then it's clearly not for your group.
Even if all decks can theoretically play Mental Misstep, I'd still run the card in my Blue section. Most of the archetypes I can think of that would maybe want to run Mental Misstep are Blue based ones. For example, I don't really see myself running the card in a Boros, Rakdos or Selesnya deck (SB card only here, at best).
Kindly explain. Why would a blue deck looking for a tempo-stopper want this card, but a non-blue deck looking for a similar card would not?
I think the 2cc cards in the cube are more powerful, impactful and numerous. If you like Mental Misstep, I'd consider Spell Snare too. Misstep can be played for free, which is a huge plus, but Snare has a good deal more targets, which typically have a bigger impact on how the game plays out.
Blue decks want to run lots of solutions to 1cc creatures, because these are big threats to their game plan. Non Blue decks care less about answering these 1cc creatures quickly, or have better solutions for answering them.
Aside from that, there are not many 1cc non creature spells I really want to counter in Cube if I am not playing a Blue deck. If I'm playing UG Fish or a similar archetype, I'd get good value from countering a cantrip effect. If I'm playing Selesnya or Boros beatdown, I'd rather have an additional threat instead. Control decks also tend to be more vulnerable to the 1cc discard spells than aggro decks, especially if Duress is involved.
In Legacy (or in pre ban Modern) where you can (could) see non Blue decks running Mental Misstep, the reason is mainly for protecting their own 1cc cards against the opposing Mental Misstep. In Cube, that situation cannot occur. If Mental Misstep could not counter Mental Misstep, I doubt these Legacy decks would all be running Mental Misstep.
I hope that clarifies my opinion on the card
It does. But in our cube, there are non-blue control decks on a regular basis, so your analysis doesn't apply to my cube environment. In our cube, if a card like Mental Misstep is in the mix, it will be played both by blue decks and by non-blue decks (that's assuming it will get played at all, obviously).
I think I'm sold on the value of MM versus a non-free counter with more targets like Spell Snare. What I'm not sold on is whether I want to dedicate a cube slot to an early-game tempo disrupter that does nothing (or at least little) else.
Blue decks want to run lots of solutions to 1cc creatures, because these are big threats to their game plan. Non Blue decks care less about answering these 1cc creatures quickly, or have better solutions for answering them.
Aside from that, there are not many 1cc non creature spells I really want to counter in Cube if I am not playing a Blue deck. If I'm playing UG Fish or a similar archetype, I'd get good value from countering a cantrip effect. If I'm playing Selesnya or Boros beatdown, I'd rather have an additional threat instead. Control decks also tend to be more vulnerable to the 1cc discard spells than aggro decks, especially if Duress is involved.
In Legacy (or in pre ban Modern) where you can (could) see non Blue decks running Mental Misstep, the reason is mainly for protecting their own 1cc cards against the opposing Mental Misstep. In Cube, that situation cannot occur. If Mental Misstep could not counter Mental Misstep, I doubt these Legacy decks would all be running Mental Misstep.
I hope that clarifies my opinion on the card
I agree with this and the suggestion of Spell Snare
I recently sold my Spell Snare foil, and I would try it otherwise. I'll hope for a reprint in Modern Masters. I'm pretty sure we'd like it.
Spell Snare is pretty good if you also have Mental Misstep (and MM is 100% blue as far as we're concerned). The other cards like Spell Pierce and Stifle are too niche I think.
How is a card that hits all non-creature spells more niche than a card that only hits cc1 cards? Isnt the latter kind of the definition of niche? And Stifle -while IMO not having the impact on a regular base I want from my card- also has more targets and uses as one might think in theory.
Spell Pierce is just outright bad against too many typical decks that you see built in Cube drafts. Meanwhile, its fantastic against the few degenerate and/or super controllish decks.
Oh, we also build a lot of non Blue based Control decks, often WB decks for obvious reasons. My point was that these decks do not need Mental Misstep as much as a Blue based Control deck to answer 1cc creatures, because they have more versatile tools - spot removal - which can deal with these 1cc creatures and also bigger ones. The non Blue solutions to 1cc creatures will be drafted above Mental Misstep, so only a real Blue based Control deck will jump on the Mental Misstep as an important card to achieve its gameplan. Others will pick stuff like Lightning Bolt or Swords to Plowshares above, if both are available.
Well. All I can say is that, if you consider Mental Misstep as just a solution against 1cc creatures, it does look pretty bad. That wasn't the impression I got from those advocating the card, though.
Also, the fact Mental Misstep does not cost any mana gets completely ignored.
tested this last night and the results were very promising. i expect it to stay.
i cast the card between 7 and 10 times and only once was it a subpar trade (late game gravecrawler). countering path to exile, mother of runes, birds of paradise, or even turn 1 beaters while laying down a turn 1 play of my own were all amazing. i can see how this might be unappealing to people who imagine paying U for it, but the card is colorless and free. the life loss wasn't ever relevant. getting a turn 1 play of my own and blanking an opponent's turn 1 play at the same time, no matter how insignificant that play was, is a great way to start the game.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
We were just discussing this card last night. Maybe I'll add it to my testing zone. I've been playing more U/x control recently & another free (though super-restrictive counterspell) could be useful. Being able to 1-drop cantrip on the play & counter their 1-drop would be pretty sweet.
Honestly I just like spellstutter sprite more. Yes, it's less of a blow out at times but it can do more too. I've seen the sprite counter enough bolts and swords in my time to be considered good.
Spellstutter Sprite is a fine card. It's comparing apples and oranges though. Besides the word 'counter' in the text box, they do different things at a different cmc. It's something I'd look to include if I were pushing tempo decks in Blue. As for Pierce, I added it at the same time and although it's been fine, misstep has been a lot better.
Misstep is a great cube card. I have the nearly the full cycle of Phyrexian mana cards. They help fill out the draft nicely and are very powerful effects. Misstep is very easy to dismiss, but it's quite good.
Honestly I just like spellstutter sprite more. Yes, it's less of a blow out at times but it can do more too. I've seen the sprite counter enough bolts and swords in my time to be considered good.
Misstep is a great cube card. I have the nearly the full cycle of Phyrexian mana cards. They help fill out the draft nicely and are very powerful effects. Misstep is very easy to dismiss, but it's quite good.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
We love it. It changes the whole dynamics of a game by countering something like hand disruption spell or aggro one drop or Sol Ring or Ritual or mana elf that the early turns would have been built around. It even counters some gold cards now we have Cackler and Militant! The best part is that it even does that on the draw or on the play. I've had it stuck in hand a couple of times waiting for a target, but that's fine: you never need to leave mana up for it. You just wait for that Path/Swords on your creature or that Reckless Charge or Tutor without breaking curve to do so. I've just gone and thrown this into aggro decks and it's wonderful there too, especially in the midrange matchup where killing their mana elf or Mom early is so important. For the narrow range of targets it has in terms of cost, it's absurd what it can hit for free.
I probably have more 1 CMC targets than most cubes as my average CMC is very low (about 2.6 I think). So that might make a difference.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Anyways, I'm glad to hear it's been working out well. I imagined that it may be really good in smaller cubes with all of the high power 1 drops. It just doesn't seem to have any shortage of targets. It may end up dead late game, but I've still been Thoughtseized or had an opponent cast Ancestral in lategame, so even then it allows for some usage. Not to mention you never have to leave mana up to stop a Swords or Lightning Bolt. I have high hopes for it.
W Jazal Goldmane W R Daretti, Scrap Savant R
B Ghoulcaller Gisa B UG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG BG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG
RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RG UB Dragonlord Silumgar UB
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG BRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG
WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUB UBR Thraximundar UBR
URG Yasova Dragonclaw URG WUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR
WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBG WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
Cube isn't like Legacy. Our games don't resolve around jockeying with our 1 and 2 drops.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
A lot of them are must-counter spells, and even then it generally totally throws someone's early turn plans back by a turn or more for the loss of no tempo or mana on my part, even for the 'non-critical' cards. Countering the turn one Elf is actually one of the more brutal plays - my opponent has probably got a 3 drop just waiting for T2 - but I could list a whole lot more. And these are often spells that I'd happily counter with a Force Spike or Mana Leak a couple of turns later. I reiterate the fact that there are few cards that can do this without needing any mana. Countering a one-drop before T1 AND playing my own one-drop or Thoughtseize by end of T1? That's busted. I've been on the end of MM so many times now, and it's usually savage. Even mid-late game it's good for protecting key critters from 1CMC removal.
In the typical U/x tempo decks where it's at its best, I aim for my opponent to never resolve a must-counter spell. MM is insurance in the early turns, while I am setting up my own game, that pushes those critical spells back a turn (against midrange), buys me more time (against aggro) or prevents a wide slice of disruption, tutoring or kill (against everything). And I speak from experience now, having had a considerable amount of time with this card to ensure that its good performance wasn't a one-off. I don't need to plan to use it. No-one sees it coming... it's just there, in hand, waiting to premptively trade with a Cackler or Thoughtseize or Mana Tithe or Land Tax, or whatever else my opponent was happy to see in his/her opener. For free. On T0. In the worst case, save it for a Lightning Bolt that your opponent topdecks. I've never lost a game with this sitting in hand for lack of a target.
I see some parallels with Legacy and small powered cubes, in that much is decided early in the game, and cheap/free countermagic is king there. I've had some success with Spell Pierce too, and I've been testing out Stifle which mainly sees use to counter fetches and big ETB triggers. I'm not sure about the latter yet, which is narrow in its applications, only creates card parity against fetchlands, and actually costs mana. In any case though, the point is moot. Cube != Legacy, but that doesn't mean that cards cannot be good across both formats. Although I'll freely admit that it was the insanity that this card caused in that format that caused me to rethink its potential use in Cube, after I sort of dismissed it out of hand.
So yeah, those are my thoughts after considerable playing time and seeding the card in drafts for a few months. It needs a low profile CMC (again, mine is about 2.6) to work proftably. Someone mentioned that they play decks without any 1 cost cards. I can't countenance that, but if that's a common drafting strategy then it's clearly not for your group.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Blue is tight though, and I'd hate to cut a tempo card for a tempo killer.
But is this a blue card?
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I think I'm sold on the value of MM versus a non-free counter with more targets like Spell Snare. What I'm not sold on is whether I want to dedicate a cube slot to an early-game tempo disrupter that does nothing (or at least little) else.
I agree with this and the suggestion of Spell Snare
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Spell Snare is pretty good if you also have Mental Misstep (and MM is 100% blue as far as we're concerned). The other cards like Spell Pierce and Stifle are too niche I think.
Spell Pierce is just outright bad against too many typical decks that you see built in Cube drafts. Meanwhile, its fantastic against the few degenerate and/or super controllish decks.
Cube is more and more about creatures.
Also, the fact Mental Misstep does not cost any mana gets completely ignored.
i cast the card between 7 and 10 times and only once was it a subpar trade (late game gravecrawler). countering path to exile, mother of runes, birds of paradise, or even turn 1 beaters while laying down a turn 1 play of my own were all amazing. i can see how this might be unappealing to people who imagine paying U for it, but the card is colorless and free. the life loss wasn't ever relevant. getting a turn 1 play of my own and blanking an opponent's turn 1 play at the same time, no matter how insignificant that play was, is a great way to start the game.
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but these are blue counterspells that you have to hold mana up for. they're completely different kinds of cards.
if you run it, how has gut shot been?
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