Seer is next in line because we love UB tempo, and he's a house in that deck.,,but simply because we don't play the Dimir decks where it really shines.
The problem I find with Seer sometimes is that if I'm in UB tempo, I usually want a big beefy finisher like Grave Titan, or want to play cards like Mulldrifter and Shriekmaw for card . Because of this a lot of players, like in standard, just don't play it as much as the other UB cards.
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Unpowered Cube, work in progress, but getting there!
The problem I find with Seer sometimes is that if I'm in UB tempo, I usually want a big beefy finisher like Grave Titan, or want to play cards like Mulldrifter and Shriekmaw for card . Because of this a lot of players, like in standard, just don't play it as much as the other UB cards.
I think the 4 that I have are solid for what I want to do in Dimir. I don't support the artifact deck, so I don't feel bad cutting Baleful Strix and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. Ashiok and Far//Away have tested very well for me, and they are both very powerful cards that my players and myself enjoy playing. Shadowmage Infiltrator and Psychatog continue to be very impressive.
Of these four cards, I like Shadowmage the best. UB control is a popular archetype. Duskmantle also sees play, as UB tempo is fun, and my cube has a lot of other blue tempo-enablers I see less often in other cubes, like Kira, Dungeon Geists, and Aether Adept. I'm a little more flexible on Tog and Far//Away. Tog is fine, and reanimator is popular. Still, three is typically a little more than reanimators want to spend on a discard outlet, not counting Liliana of the Veil. Merfolk Looter and a bunch of other blue cards enable discard, and black of course has its own discard outlets. I could see cutting Tog and if I really wanted to keep the support level for reanimator consistent, adding something like Thought Courier. Far//Away is fine, and efficient. It isn't so amazing that I'd never cut it. I'd really like to get Strix in...
I actually find Shadowmage a huge amount better in tempo. He's not at his best in control, where he always seems to be a very easy lightning rod for your opponent's removal because you aren't going to be playing many other early threats that require attention. In fact, I wouldn't run him or the Duskmantle Seer if I didn't support U/B tempo.
@jmw: I like the Strix a lot more than Far//Away. I would feel safe about making that change.
Play it over every card listed above. I mean, unless abusable (near) guaranteed card advantage evasive deathtocuh guys that fit into great archetypes (and are amazing regardless) and cost a whopping two mana aren't your thing.
This message brought to you by Hymn to Tourach and the alliance of amazing two drops.
It seems that I disagree with 78% of people, and have cut Psychatog. My list is the top 5 minus Tog. He was consistently unimpressive for us, and we have not missed him at all. He will forever have a slot in the On Deck Binder, but it is unlikely he will ever have a spot in the cube again. I know he comes with tons of history, but I think he is fantastically over rated.
I am interested in trying out UB Tezzeret. I have not done a good job supporting the artifact.dec and am looking into that now. I think Tezzeret will likely be apart of that update.
And two strange and odd and probably bad choices but two cards I can't help but loving:
Sleeper's Robe
Diabolic Vision
There is othing I can do, but I like them both
Ooh, can I add my strange-and-bad-but-loving-it Dimir choices, too?
I run:
Far//Away. In for testing, but I enjoy having tricky instants that can mess with the middle of a combat step in the cube, so this will probably stay even if it is not that powerful.
Duskmantle Seer. It's great to have a card that acts as a signpost for an archetype, especially an underdrafted one like UB tempo.
Psychatog. Great card in lots of ways, but never got much love. Was cut from lots of decks, and hasn't been missed except by the Upheaval deck guys.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. This I cut because I removed the entire signets/fast mana/Tezzerets section from my cube. It will come back at some point. I enjoyed building the Tezz artifact deck, when it presented itself.
UB reanimator is very strong in the cube, and drafted quite often. I decided to add two more interesting graveyard Dimir cards, and they've been quite popular. Either of them can take over games, if set up well. (They do wish 'tog was still though, I must say..)
It seems that I disagree with 78% of people, and have cut Psychatog. My list is the top 5 minus Tog. He was consistently unimpressive for us, and we have not missed him at all. He will forever have a slot in the On Deck Binder, but it is unlikely he will ever have a spot in the cube again. I know he comes with tons of history, but I think he is fantastically over rated.
I am interested in trying out UB Tezzeret. I have not done a good job supporting the artifact.dec and am looking into that now. I think Tezzeret will likely be apart of that update.
I too have cut 'Tog and I totally hear you on that -- he will forever have a slot in the On Deck Binder (mine is a box), but will more than likely never make it back into the cube.
My Dimir section is all about archetype support: Seer, Strix and Tezz 2.0. What can I say, we love our archetypes over here.
If you are playing ub then you probably have the tools to deal with most things that your opponents play after you tapped out. I dont see that as a problem. The seer is good in tempo decks that pressure the opponent. If their followup is not a way to remove him then you are probably in good shape.
Just chiming in to express my suprise at some of y'all undervaluing Psychatog. Just becaue it isn't a 1- or 2-drop discard outlet or a heavily resilient control finisher doesn't mean it isn't crucial to either of those decks. It has consistantly won games even in my cube, which uses many fictional cards that are well above real current powerlevels. I value it more highly than Duskmantle in tempo decks (this archetype fills its graveyard fast and Dr,Teeth plays like a Grim Lavamancer) and think it is an auto-include in more combo//control builds that can abuse its abilities.
I'd rate him as good in reanimator and great in control, and if you play both of those decks in your cube regularly, I'd cube him even in the smallest of cubes.
I'd rate 'tog as terrible in tempo and ok in control and reanimator. Overall not good enough to merit a gold slot at 450.
I too agree that he is "ok" in reanimator (it's not like he lets you loot like the looters or something like a Thirst/Compulsive/Frantic). Also agree that he is "ok" in control (unless you have Upheaval then he's disgusting... in a good way).
I think people seem to be a bit off about tog. I think a lot of people expect him to be the house wrecking beast that he was way back when, which is certainly not the case. He has actually morphed into a solid utility creature with a lot of synergies.
That being said, many people don't have room for a creature like that in their gold section. I am going to try cutting him for Ashiok.
Absolutely, because it's a nearly guaranteed 2-for-1 that has a significant impact on the board for only 2 mana. It either trades with the biggest thing your opponent attacks with, or it eats a removal spell after having already drawn a card. For control decks, this makes it a great turn 2 play that protects you while digging for more resources, while still very welcome in the later game. The fact that it curves into and can be sacrificed to Tinker is just gravy.
I've played Strix since the beginning of my cube, whereas a fully-supported artifact deck is pretty new for me. Strix doesn't necessarily pull you into the colors, but you'll play it in any deck that can cast it.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Hella necroing this thread given the incredible support Dimir has recently gotten. I wish Gruul could get support like this.
What's everyone's current rankings? I run the first 4 at 450.
1. Creeping Tar Pit (yes I count this as Dimir, as I don't run manlands otherwise)
2. Baleful Strix - card is insane, we'll never see value like this again.
3. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - You could probably convince me this guy is #4, as I think he's very overrated.
4. Hostage Taker - removal and a massive game swing late game? Count me in. Has impressed in testing, but not sure if it's better than The Scarab God.
5. The Scarab God - I could be very wrong here. I've never tested it, but it can take over games if left uninterrupted.
6. Dragonlord Silumgar - When this is the 6th best Dimir card (imo), you know you have a stacked guild. Ran him for a while - he's very good but I feel like Hostage Taker and TSG are better options.
7. Psychatog - This one is pretty polarizing within the cube community. I rank it low and will likely never play it, but I know many have had great success with it.
My group has been pushing to test The Scarab God over Hostage Taker. What are people's rankings and opinions? Which do you run, and at what cube size?
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My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
The problem I find with Seer sometimes is that if I'm in UB tempo, I usually want a big beefy finisher like Grave Titan, or want to play cards like Mulldrifter and Shriekmaw for card . Because of this a lot of players, like in standard, just don't play it as much as the other UB cards.
Creeping tar pit wins so many games. ZzZz.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Psychatog
Far//Away
I think the 4 that I have are solid for what I want to do in Dimir. I don't support the artifact deck, so I don't feel bad cutting Baleful Strix and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. Ashiok and Far//Away have tested very well for me, and they are both very powerful cards that my players and myself enjoy playing. Shadowmage Infiltrator and Psychatog continue to be very impressive.
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Shadowmage
Psychatog
Duskmantle
Far//Away
Of these four cards, I like Shadowmage the best. UB control is a popular archetype. Duskmantle also sees play, as UB tempo is fun, and my cube has a lot of other blue tempo-enablers I see less often in other cubes, like Kira, Dungeon Geists, and Aether Adept. I'm a little more flexible on Tog and Far//Away. Tog is fine, and reanimator is popular. Still, three is typically a little more than reanimators want to spend on a discard outlet, not counting Liliana of the Veil. Merfolk Looter and a bunch of other blue cards enable discard, and black of course has its own discard outlets. I could see cutting Tog and if I really wanted to keep the support level for reanimator consistent, adding something like Thought Courier. Far//Away is fine, and efficient. It isn't so amazing that I'd never cut it. I'd really like to get Strix in...
@jmw: I like the Strix a lot more than Far//Away. I would feel safe about making that change.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Dear everyone not playing Baleful Strix:
Play it over every card listed above. I mean, unless abusable (near) guaranteed card advantage evasive deathtocuh guys that fit into great archetypes (and are amazing regardless) and cost a whopping two mana aren't your thing.
This message brought to you by Hymn to Tourach and the alliance of amazing two drops.
I am interested in trying out UB Tezzeret. I have not done a good job supporting the artifact.dec and am looking into that now. I think Tezzeret will likely be apart of that update.
Ooh, can I add my strange-and-bad-but-loving-it Dimir choices, too?
I run:
Far//Away. In for testing, but I enjoy having tricky instants that can mess with the middle of a combat step in the cube, so this will probably stay even if it is not that powerful.
Duskmantle Seer. It's great to have a card that acts as a signpost for an archetype, especially an underdrafted one like UB tempo.
Shadowmage Infiltrator. Is amazing card advantage.
I cut:
Psychatog. Great card in lots of ways, but never got much love. Was cut from lots of decks, and hasn't been missed except by the Upheaval deck guys.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. This I cut because I removed the entire signets/fast mana/Tezzerets section from my cube. It will come back at some point. I enjoyed building the Tezz artifact deck, when it presented itself.
I run, but shouldn't:
Havengul Lich
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
UB reanimator is very strong in the cube, and drafted quite often. I decided to add two more interesting graveyard Dimir cards, and they've been quite popular. Either of them can take over games, if set up well. (They do wish 'tog was still though, I must say..)
My $40 MTGO cube
Draft my cube at Cubetutor!
I too have cut 'Tog and I totally hear you on that -- he will forever have a slot in the On Deck Binder (mine is a box), but will more than likely never make it back into the cube.
My Dimir section is all about archetype support: Seer, Strix and Tezz 2.0. What can I say, we love our archetypes over here.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
I too agree that he is "ok" in reanimator (it's not like he lets you loot like the looters or something like a Thirst/Compulsive/Frantic). Also agree that he is "ok" in control (unless you have Upheaval then he's disgusting... in a good way).
That being said, many people don't have room for a creature like that in their gold section. I am going to try cutting him for Ashiok.
In the last Power Rankings, it was voted the 2nd best Dimir card, beaten only by Creeping Tar Pit.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
- Strix
- Ashiok
- DL Silumgar
What's everyone's current rankings? I run the first 4 at 450.
1. Creeping Tar Pit (yes I count this as Dimir, as I don't run manlands otherwise)
2. Baleful Strix - card is insane, we'll never see value like this again.
3. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - You could probably convince me this guy is #4, as I think he's very overrated.
4. Hostage Taker - removal and a massive game swing late game? Count me in. Has impressed in testing, but not sure if it's better than The Scarab God.
5. The Scarab God - I could be very wrong here. I've never tested it, but it can take over games if left uninterrupted.
6. Dragonlord Silumgar - When this is the 6th best Dimir card (imo), you know you have a stacked guild. Ran him for a while - he's very good but I feel like Hostage Taker and TSG are better options.
7. Psychatog - This one is pretty polarizing within the cube community. I rank it low and will likely never play it, but I know many have had great success with it.
My group has been pushing to test The Scarab God over Hostage Taker. What are people's rankings and opinions? Which do you run, and at what cube size?
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered