Is Avalanche Riders actually better than Goblin Ruinblaster? In general, for me, Ruinblaster has tended to hit land just as often, but it doesn't have echo. Does the increase in splashability, point of toughness and ability to hit basics make up for echo?
Yes it does. And in addition, the Riders is far more abusable, because it has a true ETB trigger that works with blink and reanimation effects. Making it truly a beast when attached to a Mimic Vat, targeted by a Reveillark or flipped into play with a Recurring Nightmare or something.
What wtwlf said. The combination of having a true ETB effect and being able to hit any land is clutch. There are occasions when the echo can be a bonus too, such as when you have Recurring Nightmare or can evoke Reveillark.
Agreed, Fire Imp is SOLID. Like, not quite as impacting as FTK, but it's the same general idea at a lower slot on the curve. Red wants all the card advantage it can get, and nearly every deck plays creatures to take advantage of the two damage.
I loved hound but also felt he was the least deserving of the 4 drops. And I mean I loooooved the card (flavor, art, etc). Too many things kicked his ass to them force him into persist where he was shot in the face by a doom blade or something.
I HAVE been questioning FTK recently. He's slowly losing power in the end-game as some guys are so large (x/5's more and more common) and/or 4 drops are doing a lot more (planeswalkers in particular). He's definitely not the #1 red drop, even though he's the people's champ.
Hellkite on the other hand is [explicit word] amazing. I mean omg this is such a beautiful card for red's 5cc.
And I'm on the same pro-Fire Imp boat.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
As long as we are looking at both pure power as well as the times a card sees maindeck play, Flametongue Kavu is undeniably the best red 4-drop. Some aggressive decks might want Hellrider, Hero of Oxid Ridge or Koth of the Hammer more (and even that is questionable), but none of these cards has the (almost) 100% maindeck ratio that the Kavu has. He goes into any kind of deck (be it aggro, midrange, control, ramp, whatever) that is even only splashing red, while the other three cards only go into aggressive decks where red is a main color.
How do you guys rank Moltensteel Dragon on this list?
Moltensteel is great, a 4/4 flier for 4 & 4 life is solid, but in terms of aggression it can't compete with any of these red 4-drops. It's great but I personally put it in my artifact section; if I'm running it, it's as an aggressive evasive attacker, and if I'm doing that I'm definitely not spending any red mana on it (which is it's strength) unless I'm firebreathing.
Moltensteel is great, a 4/4 flier for 4 & 4 life is solid, but in terms of aggression it can't compete with any of these red 4-drops. It's great but I personally put it in my artifact section; if I'm running it, it's as an aggressive evasive attacker, and if I'm doing that I'm definitely not spending any red mana on it (which is it's strength) unless I'm firebreathing.
I cut this guy long ago. I did the same thing where I stuck him in the colorless section but honestly it's just tricking you into adding an extra red card into your cube. None of the other colors really want to be playing this card.
I play Moltensteel all the time in aggressive decks, no matter the color. As long as you can get a couple swings in before he swings, you have plenty of opportunity to just kill them.
Also: FTK is freaking awesome, and I have no idea why people think he is 'losing power'. It kills almost every single creature with the same CMC or less with the trigger, and also hits hard in combat. Add to that blink/reanimation shenanigans, and you have the makings of one of the best creatures ever printed.
Koth is the only 4-drop in red I would consider over FTK.
Ugh what an embarrassment of riches. Yet I can't let any of it go.
I'll say I kinda include Koth, FTK, Hellrider and Champ in a different list than Riders, Ruinblaster and Hero. I sorta consider the 2nd list proactive solutions to stuff the red deck really would rather not deal with. Tokens and later powerful spells/ways to stabilize. I'd probably also include things like Falkenrath Aristocrat in the 2nd list as fetters avoidance.
Not sure where I'd put solifuge though. I have to say I really like the problem solver guys though, I know red loves the ones that just pile on the damage but last time I played red ruinblaster was sooooooo clutch maybe I'm still glowing.
I play FTK, Koth, Hellrider, Hero, and Moltensteel Dragon. Moltensteel goes in any deck (it really does, I promise) so I hardly want to consider it a red 4-drop.
I really need to add Avalanche Riders though, huh.
I play FTK, Koth, Hellrider, Hero, and Moltensteel Dragon. Moltensteel goes in any deck (it really does, I promise) so I hardly want to consider it a red 4-drop.
I really need to add Avalanche Riders though, huh.
We run Koth, Avalanche Rider, FTK and Hero at 450. All four are very good.
One level below these are Champion and Hellrider. I would add these at 520+. These cards will also work at smaller cubes, it just depends on how many 4 drops you can support.
The others- Hound of Griselbrand and Firecat, I would only play in bigger cubes. The land destruction goblins are a bit of a special case. Running these depends on how many land destruction ETB effects you need.
Edit: Forgot Moltensteel Dragon. This card played pretty good for us, but it vulnerability was a bit too risky compared to the others for us. I would consider it at 540+.
I think I like Hellrider over Hero, but not by much. They both have similar roles, but I like the guaranteed damage Hellrider gives you. It's usually enough by the time you're dropping a 4 drop to kill them, or at least get them close.
I'd put Koth, Hellrider, Hero, FTK & Firecat (if you count him as a 4-drop) as Tier 1.
I'd put Keldon Champion & Avalanche Riders as Tier 2.
I run all of the above at 500.
Moltensteel was too inconsistent & so it was cut. Ruinblaster is fine but unimpressive so it was cut. I'd rather have the potential abuse of Avalanche Riders instead of Ruinblaster.
This is one of the few slots in the Cube where I'm hoping for no further Cubeworthy cards. Depending on the next card I would probably cut Keldon Champion first. Riders are so sweet because quality land destruction doesn't get printed anymore.
Ya, that card has played way better than it looks for us. I thought the small body would be largely irrelevant, but it opens up a pure Stone Rain effect to all kinds of shenanigans. I think it was Kojiro that recommended it somewhere, and I'm glad he did.
Also I'm totally into those baboons. You know the ones. Just wish they were better though, but I guess they are a tempo card in red so this is what I should expect.
Yes it does. And in addition, the Riders is far more abusable, because it has a true ETB trigger that works with blink and reanimation effects. Making it truly a beast when attached to a Mimic Vat, targeted by a Reveillark or flipped into play with a Recurring Nightmare or something.
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I'm strongly considering cutting Goblin Ruinblaster for a 3 drop. Fire Imp?
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I loved hound but also felt he was the least deserving of the 4 drops. And I mean I loooooved the card (flavor, art, etc). Too many things kicked his ass to them force him into persist where he was shot in the face by a doom blade or something.
I HAVE been questioning FTK recently. He's slowly losing power in the end-game as some guys are so large (x/5's more and more common) and/or 4 drops are doing a lot more (planeswalkers in particular). He's definitely not the #1 red drop, even though he's the people's champ.
Hellkite on the other hand is [explicit word] amazing. I mean omg this is such a beautiful card for red's 5cc.
And I'm on the same pro-Fire Imp boat.
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Really low.
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I rank it somewhere between #5 and #7 (not including Koth) depending on the cube list.
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Moltensteel is great, a 4/4 flier for 4 & 4 life is solid, but in terms of aggression it can't compete with any of these red 4-drops. It's great but I personally put it in my artifact section; if I'm running it, it's as an aggressive evasive attacker, and if I'm doing that I'm definitely not spending any red mana on it (which is it's strength) unless I'm firebreathing.
I cut this guy long ago. I did the same thing where I stuck him in the colorless section but honestly it's just tricking you into adding an extra red card into your cube. None of the other colors really want to be playing this card.
Also: FTK is freaking awesome, and I have no idea why people think he is 'losing power'. It kills almost every single creature with the same CMC or less with the trigger, and also hits hard in combat. Add to that blink/reanimation shenanigans, and you have the makings of one of the best creatures ever printed.
Koth is the only 4-drop in red I would consider over FTK.
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Totally agree. FTK is still ridiculous.
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I'll say I kinda include Koth, FTK, Hellrider and Champ in a different list than Riders, Ruinblaster and Hero. I sorta consider the 2nd list proactive solutions to stuff the red deck really would rather not deal with. Tokens and later powerful spells/ways to stabilize. I'd probably also include things like Falkenrath Aristocrat in the 2nd list as fetters avoidance.
Not sure where I'd put solifuge though. I have to say I really like the problem solver guys though, I know red loves the ones that just pile on the damage but last time I played red ruinblaster was sooooooo clutch maybe I'm still glowing.
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I really need to add Avalanche Riders though, huh.
By far I prefer Hero of Oxid Ridge and Avalanche Riders to Moltensteel.
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One level below these are Champion and Hellrider. I would add these at 520+. These cards will also work at smaller cubes, it just depends on how many 4 drops you can support.
The others- Hound of Griselbrand and Firecat, I would only play in bigger cubes. The land destruction goblins are a bit of a special case. Running these depends on how many land destruction ETB effects you need.
Edit: Forgot Moltensteel Dragon. This card played pretty good for us, but it vulnerability was a bit too risky compared to the others for us. I would consider it at 540+.
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I'd put Keldon Champion & Avalanche Riders as Tier 2.
I run all of the above at 500.
Moltensteel was too inconsistent & so it was cut. Ruinblaster is fine but unimpressive so it was cut. I'd rather have the potential abuse of Avalanche Riders instead of Ruinblaster.
This is one of the few slots in the Cube where I'm hoping for no further Cubeworthy cards. Depending on the next card I would probably cut Keldon Champion first. Riders are so sweet because quality land destruction doesn't get printed anymore.
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No one mentioned the settler for those looking to include some blink fun into their otherwise aggressive 4 drop slot.
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I now own a Goblin Settler. How many of you would run that card if you owned one, and what would your Red 4-drop section look like?
EDIT: Bahaha, just a few posts up. Question still stands for those of you who have not commented on the card, though.
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