Black aggro is bad. We've played it with little success, many of the cards end up last pick constantly. We've tried different configurations of different black aggro creatures but most are bad. I've been tinkering with Braids, Cabal Minion and Smokestack ever since I saw a few drafts online of them and not only are they fun to pilot, they're powerful. Pox was a card I saw suggested by the guys at joyofcubing (brilliant podcasts, I suggest you check them out). I've played with Pox before and it is always a heavy hitter, but I had no idea of its cube potential. Finally, a mostly black deck (that isn't reanimator) won some matches.
The Pox strategy has been huge in helping black to find an actual identity. It plays well in aggro and control strategies and has been surprisingly cohesive with other colors' strategies. I've been asked a lot on Twitter and in the stream about which cards I added to help promote the strategy. Here is my black section:
I cannot say enough good things about this configuration. I'm happy to answer any questions about it if you're considering adding the Pox theme to your cube.
I'm testing smallpox out now. It seems great for black on many levels. The triple black on pox and deathcloud seem intimidating, but if you're pushing MonoB cards like geralf's messenger and nantuko shade, why not? liliana of the dark realms seems like good support too if she's not being run already
Replied on twitter, but perhaps here is actually the better forum for followup questions
-How has Nether Traitor been? I'm probably going to bring Traitor and Reassembling Skeleton into my cube next, trying more recursive threats, and Traitor looks better than Nether Spirit to me.
-How is Pox itself? Is it good enough or is it more of a nod to history?
-How is Putrid Imp?
-Is Contamination actually fun? It seems like there are too many games where it would actively be unfun for everybody, or is that simply not the case? I've never actually played with it outside of a constructed deck that had bitterblossom and could keep it on the board indefinitely with ease.
I'm trying to build pretty much the same thing, except with 20 fewer cards because I have 59 card colored sections instead of 79 card colored sections, so I can't really play all the things you're playing. That leaves me trying to figure out which cards are most important to the archetype.
I'm testing smallpox out now. It seems great for black on many levels. The triple black on pox and deathcloud seem intimidating, but if you're pushing MonoB cards like geralf's messenger and nantuko shade, why not? liliana of the dark realms seems like good support too if she's not being run already
Smallpox is amazing. I've been nothing but happy with it.
I'm trying to build pretty much the same thing, except with 20 fewer cards because I have 59 card colored sections instead of 79 card colored sections, so I can't really play all the things you're playing. That leaves me trying to figure out which cards are most important to the archetype.
Except that it is 85 cards that are listed here, and that you might want to run Tombstalker, Ob Nixilis, Yawgmoth's will and Living Death (or end, the one not suspending in short).
So it is a bit more work than what you planned. I have 65 cards colored section, guess i'll have a little less hard time.
then his cube has increased I didn't count the cards listed, I looked at the number of cards his cube page says he runs in each color.
I've actually been having a lot of success with pox in my cube lately, but it's not quite this focused. I've been having great luck with Nether Void, Smallpox, Mind Twist, etc, and want to push it more.
And actually, I have no need to run any of those 4 cards you listed. They're all perfectly good cards, but I'm willing to not have them in order to have a much more synergistic black section instead of a black section of just goodstuff.
Except that it is 85 cards that are listed here, and that you might want to run Tombstalker, Ob Nixilis, Yawgmoth's will and Living Death (or end, the one not suspending in short).
So it is a bit more work than what you planned. I have 65 cards colored section, guess i'll have a little less hard time.
Tombstalker is fine, but I cut him to make room for more cards to help players adopt the new strategy. When pushing strategies that haven't been around before, it's better to overload and pull back than slowly bleed in, IMO. Yawgmoth's Will is definitely an interesting thought, though.
-How has Nether Traitor been? I'm probably going to bring Traitor and Reassembling Skeleton into my cube next, trying more recursive threats, and Traitor looks better than Nether Spirit to me.
-How is Pox itself? Is it good enough or is it more of a nod to history?
Pox is absolutely amazing. Good build-around-me card with tons of raw power. Timing is everything. Playing with it a few times will help you understand how to build around it. Surprisingly good even in two-color decks if you have the right support.
-How is Putrid Imp?
Solid. Good Reanimator enabler. It's not reinventing the format or anything, but I like it.
[quote[-Is Contamination actually fun? It seems like there are too many games where it would actively be unfun for everybody, or is that simply not the case? I've never actually played with it outside of a constructed deck that had bitterblossom and could keep it on the board indefinitely with ease.[/QUOTE]Contamination is fun to build around and is surprisingly interactive. Sure, there's the possibility of the early soft-lock but it's hard to get and definitely easier to manage than something like Vault+Key.
I'm happy to answer any questions about it if you're considering adding the Pox theme to your cube.
Which cards do you consider as "key cards" when it comes to Pox/Cloud strategies? How many dedicated slots do you feel are required for an effective Pox/Cloud theme in Cube?
It's good with a lot of things Squee is good with but it takes more setup. I need to start keeping track of how long it takes to get 4 dudes in the yard.
I haven't played Death Cloud yet but I did get to cast Pox tonight. It was really good. I hit two lands, a creature, a card, and 4 life. I have high hopes for Pox in cube.
I did some try also, and i'm very satisfied with the global theme and how black works with this configuration, but I didn't played Death Cloud yet. I fear it being slow, but well, I can imagine that it could end in some epic golgari ramp deck that could use it with advantage.
By the way, I do not test oversold cemetary anymore and went for Magus of the Abyss instead. It is pretty sweet, and the body is decent.
I think I'm going to try out something like this in my 500 card list. Pox has always been a favorite of mine and it'll be fun to shake up black a little. What are peoples thoughts on Undead Gladiator in this strategy?
The deck was a bit clogged at four, but other than that played pretty well. Drag Mangler wasn't great in the deck, but I wasnt about to cut a zombie. Helm of Possession was extremely good, and led to a few wins. Pack Rats was terrible, not only in this deck, but every deck it got drafted in last night, no one liked him. He's getting axed soon.
The deck was a bit clogged at four, but other than that played pretty well. Drag Mangler wasn't great in the deck, but I wasnt about to cut a zombie. Helm of Possession was extremely good, and led to a few wins. Pack Rats was terrible, not only in this deck, but every deck it got drafted in last night, no one liked him. He's getting axed soon.
I'm surprised to hear Pack Rat doesn't do well. I actually think he's 360 staple.
I'm surprised to hear Pack Rat doesn't do well. I actually think he's 360 staple.
the one time someone said he was a good draw was when they had 8 lands in play, 2 lands in the grip, and no board. They lost that game easily because they hadn't done anything for so long, and were so far behind. Every time someone tried to aggressively use him, they got blown out, and every time someone had to play him on like 5 and make another one they were real far behind. He just wasn't good.
I think I'm going to try out something like this in my 500 card list. Pox has always been a favorite of mine and it'll be fun to shake up black a little. What are peoples thoughts on Undead Gladiator in this strategy?
Cheers!
Tried it, it is a bit slow but whatever, it makes the cut in my extended list, but I wouldn't play it at 360 or 450.
You know, no one on the cube forum has been talking about Epochrasite. I've played with the card before, it's really slow but decks that utilize Braids and Smokestacks tend do be quite grindy. Best of all, like Bloodghast, it doesn't cost any mana to recur. It can also block!
Helm of Possession seems hard to get going (6 mana and a creature to Mind Control). I haven't seen it in any other lists either. I'm not convinced it's good enough.
I had added Epochrasite in my Cube when Future Sight was released. We never managed to make it work properly, and it was cut without any regret. It's too slow on offense where he basically acts as a mere unblockable 1/1 for 2, and if you chump block with it on defense as Control against Aggro, the 3 turns delay is prohibitive. Maybe with a high amount of blinks in the Cube, but even then, that's a 2 card Combo netting a vanilla 4/4, not impressive.
Regarding Pox ... I love the card, but not in Cube. Pox is all about 1 or 3 (or 6, which is uncommon), and when playing Cube, you'll sometimes want to keep 2 creatures on the board, or cast that 4cc creature ... and Pox becomes somewhat unreliable.
On its own Epochrasite is slow and usually just a two mana 1/1. But in a deck that plays Small Pox, Pox, Smokestacks, Braids, and Contamination it seems like a great creature. I'll be testing him out.
Pox has seen success in my cube as well as kojiro's cube. It's actually a really good card for black aggro, reach, LD, and removal all in one.
Black aggro is bad. We've played it with little success, many of the cards end up last pick constantly. We've tried different configurations of different black aggro creatures but most are bad. I've been tinkering with Braids, Cabal Minion and Smokestack ever since I saw a few drafts online of them and not only are they fun to pilot, they're powerful. Pox was a card I saw suggested by the guys at joyofcubing (brilliant podcasts, I suggest you check them out). I've played with Pox before and it is always a heavy hitter, but I had no idea of its cube potential. Finally, a mostly black deck (that isn't reanimator) won some matches.
What cards do land denial black play?
I've had a lot of success with Braids, Cabal Minion, Pox, Smokestack, Tangle Wire, Sinkhole, Winter Orb. There are many cards I've heard work well but haven't had first hand experience with: Magus of the Abyss, Nether Void, Smallpox, Innocent Blood, Contamination.
How do I get ahead with these symmetrical cards?
Pox, Smokestack, Braids pair well with recurring threats and hard to remove threats: Mutavault, Murderous Redcap, Bitterblossom, etc.
You should check out the link I posted in OP. Pox wrecked hard each time it resolved.
1 Carnophage
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Diegraf Ghoul
1 Gravecrawler
1 Vampire Lacerator
1 Putrid Imp
Two CMC
1 Blood Artist
1 Bloodghast
1 Dark Confidant
1 Dauthi Horror
1 Nantuko Shade
1 Nether Traitor
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Bone Shredder
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Geralf's Messenger
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Liliana's Specter
1 Nether Spirit
1 Pack Rat
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Vampire Nighthawk
Four CMC
1 Bloodline Keeper
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Desecration Demon
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Marsh Flitter
1 Nekrataal
1 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Skinrender
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Shriekmaw
1 Wei Assassins
Six Plus
1 Grave Titan
1 Griselbrand
1 Sheoldrod, Whispering One
1 Animate Dead
1 Bitterblossom
1 Contamination
1 Necromancy
1 Necropotence
1 Nether Void
1 Oversold Cemetary
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Sarcomancy
Instant
1 Contagion
1 Dark Ritual
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
1 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Snuff Out
1 Tragic Slip
1 Ultimate Price
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
1 Liliana Vess
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sorin Markov
Sorcery
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Damnation
1 Death Cloud
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Duress
1 Exhume
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Innocent Blood
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Pox
1 Profane Command
1 Reanimate
1 Sinkhole
1 Smallpox
1 Thoughtseize
1 Unburial Rites
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (in lands)
1 Volrath's Stronghold
I cannot say enough good things about this configuration. I'm happy to answer any questions about it if you're considering adding the Pox theme to your cube.
Joy of Cubing Podcast
My 600 Card Unpowered Cube
My Combo Cube
360 Uncommons only Cube!
-How has Nether Traitor been? I'm probably going to bring Traitor and Reassembling Skeleton into my cube next, trying more recursive threats, and Traitor looks better than Nether Spirit to me.
-How is Pox itself? Is it good enough or is it more of a nod to history?
-How is Putrid Imp?
-Is Contamination actually fun? It seems like there are too many games where it would actively be unfun for everybody, or is that simply not the case? I've never actually played with it outside of a constructed deck that had bitterblossom and could keep it on the board indefinitely with ease.
I'm trying to build pretty much the same thing, except with 20 fewer cards because I have 59 card colored sections instead of 79 card colored sections, so I can't really play all the things you're playing. That leaves me trying to figure out which cards are most important to the archetype.
Smallpox is amazing. I've been nothing but happy with it.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Except that it is 85 cards that are listed here, and that you might want to run Tombstalker, Ob Nixilis, Yawgmoth's will and Living Death (or end, the one not suspending in short).
So it is a bit more work than what you planned. I have 65 cards colored section, guess i'll have a little less hard time.
I've actually been having a lot of success with pox in my cube lately, but it's not quite this focused. I've been having great luck with Nether Void, Smallpox, Mind Twist, etc, and want to push it more.
And actually, I have no need to run any of those 4 cards you listed. They're all perfectly good cards, but I'm willing to not have them in order to have a much more synergistic black section instead of a black section of just goodstuff.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Tombstalker is fine, but I cut him to make room for more cards to help players adopt the new strategy. When pushing strategies that haven't been around before, it's better to overload and pull back than slowly bleed in, IMO. Yawgmoth's Will is definitely an interesting thought, though.
The more of these guys the better. If they didn't use GY order, I'd be looking adding some combination of Nether Shadow, Ashen Ghoul, and Krovikan Horror.
Pox is absolutely amazing. Good build-around-me card with tons of raw power. Timing is everything. Playing with it a few times will help you understand how to build around it. Surprisingly good even in two-color decks if you have the right support.
Solid. Good Reanimator enabler. It's not reinventing the format or anything, but I like it.
[quote[-Is Contamination actually fun? It seems like there are too many games where it would actively be unfun for everybody, or is that simply not the case? I've never actually played with it outside of a constructed deck that had bitterblossom and could keep it on the board indefinitely with ease.[/QUOTE]Contamination is fun to build around and is surprisingly interactive. Sure, there's the possibility of the early soft-lock but it's hard to get and definitely easier to manage than something like Vault+Key.
Joy of Cubing Podcast
My 600 Card Unpowered Cube
My Combo Cube
Which cards do you consider as "key cards" when it comes to Pox/Cloud strategies? How many dedicated slots do you feel are required for an effective Pox/Cloud theme in Cube?
I'm interested in your approach to black here, but what's the deal with Oversold Cemetery? It seems so slow...
Cheers,
m
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
By the way, I do not test oversold cemetary anymore and went for Magus of the Abyss instead. It is pretty sweet, and the body is decent.
Magus is pretty beefy, I'll have to try it out.
Cheers!
1 Reassembling skeleton
1 Bloodghast
1 Dark Confidant
1 Porcelain Legionnaire
1 Lotleth Troll
1 Pack Rats
1 Dreg Mangler
1 Geralf's Messenger
1 Nekrataal
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Lashwrithe
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Smallpox
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Helm of Possession
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Twilight Mire
1 Forest
19 Swamp
The deck was a bit clogged at four, but other than that played pretty well. Drag Mangler wasn't great in the deck, but I wasnt about to cut a zombie. Helm of Possession was extremely good, and led to a few wins. Pack Rats was terrible, not only in this deck, but every deck it got drafted in last night, no one liked him. He's getting axed soon.
I'm surprised to hear Pack Rat doesn't do well. I actually think he's 360 staple.
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the one time someone said he was a good draw was when they had 8 lands in play, 2 lands in the grip, and no board. They lost that game easily because they hadn't done anything for so long, and were so far behind. Every time someone tried to aggressively use him, they got blown out, and every time someone had to play him on like 5 and make another one they were real far behind. He just wasn't good.
Tried it, it is a bit slow but whatever, it makes the cut in my extended list, but I wouldn't play it at 360 or 450.
Helm of Possession seems hard to get going (6 mana and a creature to Mind Control). I haven't seen it in any other lists either. I'm not convinced it's good enough.
It's also great with blink archetypes.
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On its own Epochrasite is slow and usually just a two mana 1/1. But in a deck that plays Small Pox, Pox, Smokestacks, Braids, and Contamination it seems like a great creature. I'll be testing him out.
Pox has seen success in my cube as well as kojiro's cube. It's actually a really good card for black aggro, reach, LD, and removal all in one.