But what about other cards that help the deck out? The second and third tier token makers (Marsh Flitter, Bloodline Keeper) the other repeatable sac effects (The Abyss, Magus of the Abyss) the last playable recursive threats like Nether Spirit and Krovikan Horror, and so forth. How important are they? What other cards are critical? Are the less impressive "both edict" spells like Fleshbag Marauder and Innocent Blood critical? How much better does Barter in Blood get? Neither Void is a solid black aggro support card in its own right, but it felt a bit unimpressive lately, and got cut. How much better is it with Pox/Small/Cloud available? Carrion Feeder, I can only assume, gets TONS better with this archetype roaming around too, ya?
Last question: What about Grave Pact? It seems like a mono-black deck with a lot of sac outlets, recurring threats and "both players edict" effects could really break that card.
I'm thinking about black as well; I don't have answers, just more questions.
I don't get why Carrion Feeder is better because of Pox. Is it because with Pox you want to play more recurring creatures that work with Carrion Feeder as well?
I don't get why Carrion Feeder is better because of Pox. Is it because with Pox you want to play more recurring creatures that work with Carrion Feeder as well?
That would be my assumption. Seems legitimately better when you have Neither Traitors and Reassembling Skeletons around.
I play this strategy in my 450, and have had good success with it. Here are my thoughts about your questions.
- Carrion Feeder is great in this archetype for the reasons you guessed. With Nether Traitor, Bloodghast, Reassembling Skeleton, and Gravecrawler around, you can occasionally really do crazy things with him, but even without those tools he just slowly grows over time by giving you a counter in response to removal and other stuff. Solid for a 1 drop. Also, the sacrifice outlet is more relevant than you think. Being able to block and sacrifice to prevent lifelink or Jitte counters, or sacrifice your geralf's messenger to get in there for 2 life, or just make combat math difficult for your opponent, all of these things are relevant and useful.
- wtwlf's tiers are pretty good, but I would actually place Pox and Smallpox both in Tier 1, with the caveat that Pox is placed there with only limited testing so far. It's been great every time I've seen it played.
- This is related to the next few, but in general the hard part about building the deck is the mana curve. There are so many good 4 drops that would be good in this archetype, and you rarely need more than 1 or 2 in the deck, as you're destroying your own lands and discarding your own cards with pox, smallpox, and liliana, so it's sometimes hard to get to 4 or 5 mana.
- As a result, Braids, Smokestack, and to a lesser extent Nether Void are important parts of the deck, but Marsh Flitter, Bloodline Keeper, The Abyss, Magus of the Abyss, Barter in Blood, Krovikian Horror, Grave Pact, and the previously unmentioned Lashwrithe just didn't find room in my cube to fit. I would agree that all of them would be good in the archetype, but it's about space for me. If I was building with a slightly larger cube, I would probably find room for some of them. My guess would be Lashwrithe next, then maybe Marsh Flitter, the Abyss, or Grave Pact.
- Speaking of Lashwrithe, living weapon is good because it gives you two permanents for one card. Mortarpod is ridiculously good in this deck. Two permanents for one card, and another great sacrifice outlet that does many of the things Carrion Feeder does, while also providing removal or reach.
- Still on the topic of the larger mana spells, I haven't found room for Death Cloud. I imagine a good Death Cloud list could be built, but I haven't given any thought to it. It'd probably look like constructed Death Cloud lists and most often be paired with green for ramp. I'm not sure it actually combos all that well with Pox and Smallpox though, because if you resolve one of those, resolving Death Cloud in the same game for any relevant number as X will be very hard.
- I want to find room to try Innocent Blood again, but I haven't found space yet. That's on my to-do list.
- Konfusius' list of cards can be broken into two groups so I'll address them separately: The non-Sinkhole LD are all cards I'd like to play but don't have room for. I think between Pox, Smallpox, and Sinkhole, as well as Strip Mine and Wasteland, you have enough LD to do relevant things, and in my 450 that also pushes reanimator I just could find room for another. Choking Sands could definitely make the list though.
- Discard is really the part of the deck that needs more addressing. I don't think Unmask is good enough, there just isn't enough card draw in the deck to justify losing advantage to Thoughtseize. Raven's Crime could be amazing or irrelevant, and I think it will get better if we ever get another good 1mana discard spell to get a better critical mass. Stupor would be my next addition if I was adding cards, as I think it's probably the best things for the deck right now. It's not quite Hymn, but it's a damn good card.
- Spinning Darkness seems too narrow. I don't think it does enough to justify the hoops and since it's not going to be very playable in many other archetypes, I don't think there's space. This deck already has a lot of cards that are ONLY good in it's archetype, and one of the difficult things has been keeping that number low.
- Skinthinner and Zombie Cutthroat are both things I've considered as well but ultimately didn't have space for. Skinthinner seems better than cutthroat because 5 life is a LOT to loose for this deck, between Necro, Carnophage/Lacerator, creatures that largely can't block, and Bob.
I think that's most of the things y'all mentioned. Did I miss anything?
The Abyss is definitely on my radar, but it's attacking a slightly different axis than what I'm trying to push. You want to be attacking your opponent's resources and preventing him from his plan A while beating down with dorks. The Abyss has some undeniable synergies with the rest of the archetype that not being as good in aggro-oriented Pox decks might actually be okay given how good the card should be in stealing games in slower decks. It was between the Abyss and Death Cloud as the slower cards, and I opted for Death Cloud.
A second question: What do people that support this decktype consider to be the critical cards for it? For me, it looks like:
But what about other cards that help the deck out? The second and third tier token makers (Marsh Flitter, Bloodline Keeper) the other repeatable sac effects (The Abyss, Magus of the Abyss) the last playable recursive threats like Nether Spirit and Krovikan Horror, and so forth. How important are they? What other cards are critical? Are the less impressive "both edict" spells like Fleshbag Marauder and Innocent Blood critical? How much better does Barter in Blood get? Neither Void is a solid black aggro support card in its own right, but it felt a bit unimpressive lately, and got cut. How much better is it with Pox/Small/Cloud available? Carrion Feeder, I can only assume, gets TONS better with this archetype roaming around too, ya?
You've pretty much got it, but the Pox effects would be considered Tier 1 in this case. I'm kind of a nut when it comes to archetype drafting, so it wouldn't take much more than a Crucible or Pox to push me in early. You can pretty much put any token producer or recursive guy in the Tier II category, and any card that abuses these in the Tier I category. Creatures like Gravecrawler and Carrion feeder skirth the line between Tier I/II given how good they are at enabling the rest of the deck.
To your question about whether this makes black aggro better, it's a resounding yes. Think of white weenie as an example. None of the cards are particularly power on their own, but they provide an incredible amount of pressure and synergy when they're combined with some of the other cards white has access to. Black hasn't been able to find this strength because its support cards are very vanilla and really don't help to support a particular strategy. Tutors, removal, draw spells, and idiots. That's all my black did before Pox. Now it can combine a bunch of recursive creatures with cards that sweep the board or force mutual sacrifices. It makes the 1-drop 2/2s so much more attractive to pick up whereas before they were an afterthought.
There are some other cards like Squee, Bazaar, Reanimation, mono black cards, artifact mana, and black Planeswalkers that help to support strategies outside of Pox, but also have synergy with Pox decks. These decks are obviously very heavy into black, but will often play a second color to splash for powerful effects like burn, creatures like Stoneforge Mystic, or cards that help take advantage of stifling your opponent's tempo. That said, I have access to all filters that make black mana to ensure that I don't hurt the ability to make BBB at any given time. I also include Cabal Coffers and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. I don't run cards like Lashwrithe anymore because I dont' want a deck to go into mono-black because they're playing black-matters cards. I want them to go into mono-black because 'WHY THE HELL SHOULD I PLAY ANOTHER COLOR?'
Last question: What about Grave Pact? It seems like a mono-black deck with a lot of sac outlets, recurring threats and "both players edict" effects could really break that card.
I really like the idea. Is it any better than The Abyss or Attrition? I was really impressed with Attrition in the MODO cube, but I haven't been able to test it since RTR came out.
I'm thinking about black as well; I don't have answers, just more questions.
I don't get why Carrion Feeder is better because of Pox. Is it because with Pox you want to play more recurring creatures that work with Carrion Feeder as well?
You got it. You're playing a game of managing your resources and tempo for maximum efficiency. You can do some pretty neat things with cards like Carrion Feeder. Its best comparison is that it's the black Greater Gargadon. Any of you Gargadon fans will love Feeder in these kinds of decks.
Good list. I run about half those cards. My list isn't updated, but my black section is if you want an idea of what I'm running. I like Crime and a Zombie sub-theme, but I don't want to get too cute while I'm hashing out the strategy.
I hope this helps clear some stuff up. I mean it when I say that black has never been more fun to draft!
Black's hand disruption adds another potent element to trad aggro decks AND Pox decks, that other aggro colours just don't have. It's the best and cheapest answer to Wrath or a 'Walker.
You can include only the top tier cards as a black aggro-tempo package, as I've done, that can come together into the archetype, but isn't necessary to make the cards good. Pox, Smallpox, Nether Void, Geralf's Messenger, Contamination, etc.
EDIT: I'm still not sure where Death Cloud fits into these two classifications. I'm still trying to work that out, but I do know that it benefits from having a ramp focused green section.
Thanks a lot for the discussion so far, especially JeffDerek and kojiro for the long and detailed answers. I'll keep working on my take on the archetype and I will report what I try to do and how it works out... in time.
I hope this helps clear some stuff up. I mean it when I say that black has never been more fun to draft!
I believe you. The best thing that ever happened to my Cube so far was the redefinition of green and the subsequent addition of more green ramp while cutting fast artifact mana at the same time. Green is a favorite color in my Cube ever since whereas it was drastically underplayed before. Blue and White were pretty well-defined from the start (though increasing blue tempo support was also a really good thing, thanks again kojiro!), and Red at least to some extent. I want to get Black there as well (and I also want to change Red somewhat, but that does not belong in this thread and is not what I consider a pressing matter).
edit: @Theogony_IX: we posted almost at the same time, so I only just read what you wrote. Can you elaborate on Contamination? I am somewhat surprised to see it listed as top tier, but of course also intrigued.
Black's hand disruption adds another potent element to trad aggro decks AND Pox decks, that other aggro colours just don't have. It's the best and cheapest answer to Wrath or a 'Walker.
Agreed. Duress was really good each time I casted it last night in my mono black deck. It was able to get artifact, enchantments, and walkers which black has a very difficult time dealing with.
@Konfusius, Contamination is at the bottom of tier 1 for me, but I'd definitely be running it if my cube were even a little larger. It effectively stops most every opponent from doing anything while you push the last of your damage through. The fact that it steals a turn before you need to sac a dude is great seeing that you can forego the cost if the single turn was enough to get you there. But, just like my experience with Smallpox, the loss of a single creature in aggro when you know it's coming is not all that detrimental, and in the case of Contamination, you gain two free turns for the board presence cost of one creature. That should be plenty.
@Konfusius, Contamination is at the bottom of tier 1 for me, but I'd definitely be running it if my cube were even a little larger. It effectively stops most every opponent from doing anything while you push the last of your damage through. The fact that it steals a turn before you need to sac a dude is great seeing that you can forego the cost if the single turn was enough to get you there. But, just like my experience with Smallpox, the loss of a single creature in aggro when you know it's coming is not all that detrimental, and in the case of Contamination, you gain two free turns for the board presence cost of one creature. That should be plenty.
OK, so you don't just run it out as soon as you can but it is more like an Armageddon with a drawback that you play well-timed. Sounds reasonable, I will consider that card as well. Thanks for the explanation.
Thanks for the detailed responses guys. I'm going to be discussing things with my playgroup and we may be doing a heavy kojiro-style Pox support package in the near future.
Interesting discussion so far. Could any of the experienced guys answer the following, very basic, questions?
How do you mitigate the impact of Smallpox? Recurring threats mitigate the Innocent Blood and the discard part of the card, but is there any smart way to ensure the opponent is hit more by the LD part? How much of the setup is during deck construction/drafting (lower curve, a little lifegain), how much is during the game? Is there a terrible matchup? (I'd guess aggro, they have many critters quickly and don't rely on a lot of mana)
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
The only way to mitigate the land loss is to recur the land (Loam/Crucible or Regrowth effects and Yawg's Will), add non-land mana sources so your resources aren't hurt as much (artifact mana, etc) or combine the LD effects of the Pox variants with other LD effects (like Sinkhole, Strip Mone and Port, etc) to further set your opponent back.
I would think the worst matchup the Pox deck could face would be token-producing decks with mana rocks and moxen.
The other thing I realized is that this is a good thing, because I only have 5 or 6 cards that I am willing to cut from black right now and one of those slots goes to Necropotence (which is only somewhat related to the Pox change, it has more to do with supporting heavier black decks). So in the remaining 4-5 slots two go to Carrion Feeder and Pox for sure which leaves me with only 2-3 slots for the many many options that were discussed in the last couple posts. I currently consider the following cards:
With those last 3 slots, I'd bring in both recurring Nether creatures, and perhaps one more "engine" card like Death Cloud, The Abyss or maybe Attrition.
I like Nether Traitor, we haven't tested Nether Spirit yet but experience with the deck suggests he probably isn't that good. You don't have a lot of ways to make sure he's the only creature in the graveyard.
Yawgmoth's Will wasn't good enough for us, I just couldn't create game states where I had enough mana for it to be amazing. Maybe if I had power, but in an unpowered cube there's only the 1 black ritual.
I posted a bunch of other comments on your thread and probably don't need to rehash them here.
Will is great for us, power cards or not, even with only 5-ish mana available. I would assume it only gets better in a decktype like this, where always having a land in the GY to get back only increases its effectiveness.
Will is great for us, power cards or not, even with only 5-ish mana available. I would assume it only gets better in a decktype like this, where always having a land in the GY to get back only increases its effectiveness.
I guess my point was that I assumed it would be good here too, and it wasn't. I'm not saying these things out of ignorance, theyr'e based on testing
I guess my point was that I assumed it would be good here too, and it wasn't. I'm not saying these things out of ignorance, theyr'e based on testing
That's fine. I'm simply saying that my testing has proven the card to be the opposite of your testing, and therefore I too would like to share my differing opinion.
Would it be possible to do a Pox subtheme instead of a Pox supertheme? Basically just adding in Pox, Smallpox and Reassembling Skeleton into a traditional black section? I mean, it already includes Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, Braids, Crucible, Liliana, Loam and Smokestack. I may try that out instead of going "all-in" on the Pox mega theme.
Would it be possible to do a Pox subtheme instead of a Pox supertheme? Basically just adding in Pox, Smallpox and Reassembling Skeleton into a traditional black section? I mean, it already includes Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, Braids, Crucible, Liliana, Loam and Smokestack. I may try that out instead of going "all-in" on the Pox mega theme.
I think those are great additions. I'd try it out and see if you're lacking the support.
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A second question: What do people that support this decktype consider to be the critical cards for it? For me, it looks like:
Tier 1: Braids, Cabal Minion, Smokestack, Liliana of the Veil, Bitterblossom, Gravecrawler and Bloodghast. Additionally, Crucible of Worlds and Life From the Loam have been great with the existing "engine cards" and I assume would only improve in a heavy "pox theme" ya?
Tier 2: Pox, Smallpox, Death Cloud, Reassembling Skeleton, Neither Traitor.
But what about other cards that help the deck out? The second and third tier token makers (Marsh Flitter, Bloodline Keeper) the other repeatable sac effects (The Abyss, Magus of the Abyss) the last playable recursive threats like Nether Spirit and Krovikan Horror, and so forth. How important are they? What other cards are critical? Are the less impressive "both edict" spells like Fleshbag Marauder and Innocent Blood critical? How much better does Barter in Blood get? Neither Void is a solid black aggro support card in its own right, but it felt a bit unimpressive lately, and got cut. How much better is it with Pox/Small/Cloud available? Carrion Feeder, I can only assume, gets TONS better with this archetype roaming around too, ya?
Last question: What about Grave Pact? It seems like a mono-black deck with a lot of sac outlets, recurring threats and "both players edict" effects could really break that card.
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I don't get why Carrion Feeder is better because of Pox. Is it because with Pox you want to play more recurring creatures that work with Carrion Feeder as well?
I'm reconsidering some zombies that used to be in Cubes because Gravecrawler could need some buddies. Namely Skinthinner and Zombie Cutthroat.
The list wtwlf123 provides is full of things that kill creatures. I focused my research more on things that kill lands or attack the hand: Choking Sands, Icequake, Rain of Tears, Stupor, Wrench Mind, Unmask, Raven's Crime. Cards like Unmask, Raven's Crime or Contagion could also work well with the massive card draw provided by Necropotence.
What about Spinning Darkness?
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
That would be my assumption. Seems legitimately better when you have Neither Traitors and Reassembling Skeletons around.
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- Carrion Feeder is great in this archetype for the reasons you guessed. With Nether Traitor, Bloodghast, Reassembling Skeleton, and Gravecrawler around, you can occasionally really do crazy things with him, but even without those tools he just slowly grows over time by giving you a counter in response to removal and other stuff. Solid for a 1 drop. Also, the sacrifice outlet is more relevant than you think. Being able to block and sacrifice to prevent lifelink or Jitte counters, or sacrifice your geralf's messenger to get in there for 2 life, or just make combat math difficult for your opponent, all of these things are relevant and useful.
- wtwlf's tiers are pretty good, but I would actually place Pox and Smallpox both in Tier 1, with the caveat that Pox is placed there with only limited testing so far. It's been great every time I've seen it played.
- This is related to the next few, but in general the hard part about building the deck is the mana curve. There are so many good 4 drops that would be good in this archetype, and you rarely need more than 1 or 2 in the deck, as you're destroying your own lands and discarding your own cards with pox, smallpox, and liliana, so it's sometimes hard to get to 4 or 5 mana.
- As a result, Braids, Smokestack, and to a lesser extent Nether Void are important parts of the deck, but Marsh Flitter, Bloodline Keeper, The Abyss, Magus of the Abyss, Barter in Blood, Krovikian Horror, Grave Pact, and the previously unmentioned Lashwrithe just didn't find room in my cube to fit. I would agree that all of them would be good in the archetype, but it's about space for me. If I was building with a slightly larger cube, I would probably find room for some of them. My guess would be Lashwrithe next, then maybe Marsh Flitter, the Abyss, or Grave Pact.
- Speaking of Lashwrithe, living weapon is good because it gives you two permanents for one card. Mortarpod is ridiculously good in this deck. Two permanents for one card, and another great sacrifice outlet that does many of the things Carrion Feeder does, while also providing removal or reach.
- Still on the topic of the larger mana spells, I haven't found room for Death Cloud. I imagine a good Death Cloud list could be built, but I haven't given any thought to it. It'd probably look like constructed Death Cloud lists and most often be paired with green for ramp. I'm not sure it actually combos all that well with Pox and Smallpox though, because if you resolve one of those, resolving Death Cloud in the same game for any relevant number as X will be very hard.
- I want to find room to try Innocent Blood again, but I haven't found space yet. That's on my to-do list.
- Konfusius' list of cards can be broken into two groups so I'll address them separately: The non-Sinkhole LD are all cards I'd like to play but don't have room for. I think between Pox, Smallpox, and Sinkhole, as well as Strip Mine and Wasteland, you have enough LD to do relevant things, and in my 450 that also pushes reanimator I just could find room for another. Choking Sands could definitely make the list though.
- Discard is really the part of the deck that needs more addressing. I don't think Unmask is good enough, there just isn't enough card draw in the deck to justify losing advantage to Thoughtseize. Raven's Crime could be amazing or irrelevant, and I think it will get better if we ever get another good 1mana discard spell to get a better critical mass. Stupor would be my next addition if I was adding cards, as I think it's probably the best things for the deck right now. It's not quite Hymn, but it's a damn good card.
- Spinning Darkness seems too narrow. I don't think it does enough to justify the hoops and since it's not going to be very playable in many other archetypes, I don't think there's space. This deck already has a lot of cards that are ONLY good in it's archetype, and one of the difficult things has been keeping that number low.
- Skinthinner and Zombie Cutthroat are both things I've considered as well but ultimately didn't have space for. Skinthinner seems better than cutthroat because 5 life is a LOT to loose for this deck, between Necro, Carnophage/Lacerator, creatures that largely can't block, and Bob.
I think that's most of the things y'all mentioned. Did I miss anything?
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You've pretty much got it, but the Pox effects would be considered Tier 1 in this case. I'm kind of a nut when it comes to archetype drafting, so it wouldn't take much more than a Crucible or Pox to push me in early. You can pretty much put any token producer or recursive guy in the Tier II category, and any card that abuses these in the Tier I category. Creatures like Gravecrawler and Carrion feeder skirth the line between Tier I/II given how good they are at enabling the rest of the deck.
To your question about whether this makes black aggro better, it's a resounding yes. Think of white weenie as an example. None of the cards are particularly power on their own, but they provide an incredible amount of pressure and synergy when they're combined with some of the other cards white has access to. Black hasn't been able to find this strength because its support cards are very vanilla and really don't help to support a particular strategy. Tutors, removal, draw spells, and idiots. That's all my black did before Pox. Now it can combine a bunch of recursive creatures with cards that sweep the board or force mutual sacrifices. It makes the 1-drop 2/2s so much more attractive to pick up whereas before they were an afterthought.
There are some other cards like Squee, Bazaar, Reanimation, mono black cards, artifact mana, and black Planeswalkers that help to support strategies outside of Pox, but also have synergy with Pox decks. These decks are obviously very heavy into black, but will often play a second color to splash for powerful effects like burn, creatures like Stoneforge Mystic, or cards that help take advantage of stifling your opponent's tempo. That said, I have access to all filters that make black mana to ensure that I don't hurt the ability to make BBB at any given time. I also include Cabal Coffers and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. I don't run cards like Lashwrithe anymore because I dont' want a deck to go into mono-black because they're playing black-matters cards. I want them to go into mono-black because 'WHY THE HELL SHOULD I PLAY ANOTHER COLOR?'
I really like the idea. Is it any better than The Abyss or Attrition? I was really impressed with Attrition in the MODO cube, but I haven't been able to test it since RTR came out.
You got it. You're playing a game of managing your resources and tempo for maximum efficiency. You can do some pretty neat things with cards like Carrion Feeder. Its best comparison is that it's the black Greater Gargadon. Any of you Gargadon fans will love Feeder in these kinds of decks.
Good list. I run about half those cards. My list isn't updated, but my black section is if you want an idea of what I'm running. I like Crime and a Zombie sub-theme, but I don't want to get too cute while I'm hashing out the strategy.
I hope this helps clear some stuff up. I mean it when I say that black has never been more fun to draft!
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You can go the full archetypal route with all of the pox enablers and support cards, as Kojiro has done. Reassembling Skeleton, Nether Traitor, Nether Spirit, Necropotence, The Abyss, tier 2 token producers, etc.
Or
You can include only the top tier cards as a black aggro-tempo package, as I've done, that can come together into the archetype, but isn't necessary to make the cards good. Pox, Smallpox, Nether Void, Geralf's Messenger, Contamination, etc.
EDIT: I'm still not sure where Death Cloud fits into these two classifications. I'm still trying to work that out, but I do know that it benefits from having a ramp focused green section.
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I believe you. The best thing that ever happened to my Cube so far was the redefinition of green and the subsequent addition of more green ramp while cutting fast artifact mana at the same time. Green is a favorite color in my Cube ever since whereas it was drastically underplayed before. Blue and White were pretty well-defined from the start (though increasing blue tempo support was also a really good thing, thanks again kojiro!), and Red at least to some extent. I want to get Black there as well (and I also want to change Red somewhat, but that does not belong in this thread and is not what I consider a pressing matter).
edit: @Theogony_IX: we posted almost at the same time, so I only just read what you wrote. Can you elaborate on Contamination? I am somewhat surprised to see it listed as top tier, but of course also intrigued.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Agreed. Duress was really good each time I casted it last night in my mono black deck. It was able to get artifact, enchantments, and walkers which black has a very difficult time dealing with.
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How do you mitigate the impact of Smallpox? Recurring threats mitigate the Innocent Blood and the discard part of the card, but is there any smart way to ensure the opponent is hit more by the LD part? How much of the setup is during deck construction/drafting (lower curve, a little lifegain), how much is during the game? Is there a terrible matchup? (I'd guess aggro, they have many critters quickly and don't rely on a lot of mana)
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I would think the worst matchup the Pox deck could face would be token-producing decks with mana rocks and moxen.
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My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, Bitterblossom, Reassembling Skeleton, Geralf's Messenger, Braids, Cabal Minion, Thoughtseize, Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek, Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole, Smallpox, Liliana of the Veil and Nether Void. And Smokestack.
The other thing I realized is that this is a good thing, because I only have 5 or 6 cards that I am willing to cut from black right now and one of those slots goes to Necropotence (which is only somewhat related to the Pox change, it has more to do with supporting heavier black decks). So in the remaining 4-5 slots two go to Carrion Feeder and Pox for sure which leaves me with only 2-3 slots for the many many options that were discussed in the last couple posts. I currently consider the following cards:
Recurring creatures:
Nether Traitor
Nether Spirit
Butcher Ghoul
Rotlung Reanimator
I don't want to care about graveyard order, so cards that do are out.
Hand disruption:
Cabal Interrogator it is a Zombie, too!
Mesmeric Fiend an old favorite of mine that works great with Carrion Feeder
Other options:
Yawgmoth's Will
Quest for the Gravelord
Gatekeeper of Malakir
Zombie Cutthroat
Skinthinner
In my land section, I want to bring in Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Fetid Heath and Twilight Mire to help with heavy black mana requirements.
In my colorless section, I plan on adding Mortarpod and Epochrasite.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Yawgmoth's Will wasn't good enough for us, I just couldn't create game states where I had enough mana for it to be amazing. Maybe if I had power, but in an unpowered cube there's only the 1 black ritual.
I posted a bunch of other comments on your thread and probably don't need to rehash them here.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I guess my point was that I assumed it would be good here too, and it wasn't. I'm not saying these things out of ignorance, theyr'e based on testing
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
That's fine. I'm simply saying that my testing has proven the card to be the opposite of your testing, and therefore I too would like to share my differing opinion.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!