So, I tested Birthing Pod when it was first released, and it never really impressed me. Paying between 4 and 6 mana, and up to 4 life to turn my 3-drop into a 4-drop, and then more mana/life to turn it from a 4-drop to a 5-drop was just REALLY slow and underwhelming. I get the advantage of triggering new ETB effects, but the lack of board development really stifled it for us. And the sorcery-speed activation is a huge buzzkill (the card would be beyond busted if you could activate it as an instant). For the people that are using this card to success, what kinds of decks want it, and what kinds of plays make this more than just a mundane effect?
By far its best use is on a Vorapede to get a Titan. Beyond that, I usually want it to be a lot better than it is.
It's not a bad card. But I usually imagine that the incremental board improvement is going to be more than it turns out to be. I find that I run out of creatures all too quickly.
There's a lot of talk about this card, and nobody's stepping up to the plate to defend it.
I hope this:
It's not a bad card. But I usually imagine that the incremental board improvement is going to be more than it turns out to be. I find that I run out of creatures all too quickly.
Isn't the general consensus of the card, as I'm planning on adding it in for testing.
Someone who love's Pod ...for the love of god tell me how you break it!
I've found that it's mainly best in midrange decks with a lot of ETB triggers, like a BG deck with a chain like Viridian Shaman/Geralf's Messenger -> Nekrataal -> Acidic Slime -> Wurmcoil Engine/Grave Titan and other redundant cards at those costs to reinforce that chain (like a Wickerbough Elder/Shriekmaw/Skinrender or even just solid creatures like Chameleon Colossus/Ob Nixilis, the Fallen) and when it works, it works. It's not too hard to build around, but I've seen decks that had to have it in the sideboard because the chain(s) weren't in the deck, but that's not too bad a thing as that happens with those kinds of cards, but conversely, it's a card that doesn't necessarily have to be built around, it usually fits well in most BG midrange decks since they tend to have a lot of ETB guys (it also works very well if you have reanimation spells to go with it.)
The more I've thought about this card the less I like it. It's such a huge huge huge investment and it's so vulnerable to boot. I think the ETB triggers are rarely worth it unless you've got some way to abuse it (e.g. with Undying, or Bloodghast). It requires so much redundancy to ensure you can chain even once, let alone twice. And the worst thing, in my opinion, is that it requires you to have a very good memory of your decklist.
On the pro side, um, you can sacrifice tokens for free shuffles after brainstorm/top.
I think Birthing Pod is great. Tutors often are, and the mana cost restriction is not that bad because you want to have a good curve anyway. Complaining about the sorcery speed is rather greedy, nobody complains about that restriction on Recurring Nightmare.
If they cannot stop your chain Birthing Pod causes all sorts of troubles for your opponent. For one or two mana a turn, you keep getting your selection of ETB triggers and creatures that get bigger turn after turn, often leaving behind additional bodies. Building a deck around Birthing Pod is tons of fun, and as Usman said, it is not even necessary to build around, it naturally fits in some existing decks.
Thanks for the reports Usman and Konfusius! Very helpful.
Quote from Konfusius »
Complaining about the sorcery speed is rather greedy, nobody complains about that restriction on Recurring Nightmare.
With all due respect, Birthing Pod is no Recurring Nightmare. I don't complain about the quality of Recurring Nightmare because Recurring Nightmare is the best black card. So complaining about the card quality on Pod is not the same thing as whining about Nightmare not being good enough would be.
With all due respect, Birthing Pod is no Recurring Nightmare. I don't complain about the quality of Recurring Nightmare because Recurring Nightmare is the best black card. So complaining about the card quality on Pod is not the same thing as whining about Nightmare not being good enough would be.
True. But still, Birthing Pod without the timing restriction would be beyond broken, so it still seems greedy to complain about that
I'm okay with beyond broken. As we were just discussing Recurring Nightmare and I'm glad that card's not more "fair".
Still, I look forward to testing the Pod, and I'll be sure to leave lots of detailed feedback after I continue to marathon playtest the new 450 list.
I'm looking forward to the reports. I think you should keep Thornling in your list if at all possible, it is one of the best finishers you can tutor for with Birthing Pod. You can sac a four drop, pay 1 and get Thornling, give it haste and whatever else is needed and keep the G open for indestructibility.
I wanted to have a 6cc card in the list to tutor for with the Pod, so Prime Time went in. With the other competition around the 5cc slot, I'm fine benching the 'ling for a chance at early Titans. As a ramp target, Thornling's quite good. But as a reanimation target, I'm more interested in the other suite.
I think for you (wtwlf) it may suffer from the same thing you have with gsz in testing. You draft winston, or play sealed, instead of 6 mans or 8 mans so you see less cards to build around cards like this. But yeah this card is tons of fun in cube and leads to some really awesome games, you just have to have the deck for it.
I really really want Birthing Pod to be better, i love build around me's that play well with existing strategies but for the life of me i cant see past all the flaws. My only successes with it has involved having birds/hierarch/elves into strangleroot geist, into random 3 drop, or 4 drop into acidic slime.
Which saddens me deeply because there is a da vinci pod alter that i want with all of my soul.
Birthing Pod is not the type of card you slam on the table and your opponent just scoops. It's a value card, slowly building a superior position over the course of 2-3 turns. For me, having a Birthing Pod in play sort of feels like having a planeswalker; you do your normal turn, and get to do something cool with the pod as well.
Great insight. Thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to seeing it in action and finding out what kind of interactions I can find.
We've been playing Pod since it's release and, honestly, the best I can say about it is it doesn't suck. The biggest problem we have with it is doing a 4-man draft or a Winston and laying your deck out to realize you didn't get any 5-drops so your chain goes 1-4, 6-8. That's not to say it hasn't been used to success. I've seen in in GW decks, GB decks, and GU decks. Those decks typically have some other form of strategy and Pod is an added bonus. As Usman said, any deck where you can take advantage of ETB abilities instead of just chaining 1-drop through 7-drop is best. My personal favorite is to throw it in a GB midrange deck with a reanimation sub theme so you can just bring back the dudes you sac to Pod.
One other thing to point out that I've noticed is that, at least in our group, the phyrexian mana symbol might as well be a normal green mana symbol. Playing it a turn early basically never happens. I may have seen it played and activated on turn four a couple of times, but even that's a rare occasion.
interested to see if people have a new appreciation for birthing pod in cube yet. this thread is very skeptical of the card's power. its personally my favorite card and i think its a great build around card and fits great in GB value creature decks as previously mentioned here.
i've been playing it in my cube and its one of my playgroup's favorite cards to build around.
new to the forum so i hope its alright posting here (not intending to necro)
I just cut it. It didn't perform very well over the long run that it had in the cube.
I had exactly the same experience (unpowered cube), I tested it a while and I just took it out. It's a shame because I really want more green noncreature cards.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I've had a very good experience with the pod. It goes great in an ETB kind of deck, and more and more creatures have great ETB abilities. I've even run it in nongreen decks and been happy with the results.
do you think it would fare better in a non-powered cube than a powered cube?
I don't know. Maybe. If the speed of the game drops by a turn or two, you can get a lot more value from Pod. So slower cubes with big curves would benefit more. That doesn't mean powered vs unpowered, but just fast vs slow in general.
So, I tested Birthing Pod when it was first released, and it never really impressed me. Paying between 4 and 6 mana, and up to 4 life to turn my 3-drop into a 4-drop, and then more mana/life to turn it from a 4-drop to a 5-drop was just REALLY slow and underwhelming. I get the advantage of triggering new ETB effects, but the lack of board development really stifled it for us. And the sorcery-speed activation is a huge buzzkill (the card would be beyond busted if you could activate it as an instant). For the people that are using this card to success, what kinds of decks want it, and what kinds of plays make this more than just a mundane effect?
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It's not a bad card. But I usually imagine that the incremental board improvement is going to be more than it turns out to be. I find that I run out of creatures all too quickly.
I hope this:
Isn't the general consensus of the card, as I'm planning on adding it in for testing.
Someone who love's Pod ...for the love of god tell me how you break it!
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On the pro side, um, you can sacrifice tokens for free shuffles after brainstorm/top.
I look for cards that leave something behind or have some other relevant ETB trigger. Strangleroot Geist, Viridian Emissary, Wall of Blossoms, Eternal Witness, Carven Caryatid, Uktabi Orangutan, Viridian Shaman, Yavimaya Elder, Masked Admirers, Obstinate Baloth, Acidic Slime, Deranged Hermit, Genesis, Indrik Stomphowler, Vorapede, Brutalizer Exarch and Primeval Titan in green and Solemn Simulacrum, Precursor Golem and Wurmcoil Engine are all OK if all you get is the trigger and the next creature up the curve. Of course it is also great just to tutor for the creature that is best suited to the current situation. The clones (Phyrexian Metamorph, Phantasmal Image) work great as well. Black, white and red all have tons of great ETB triggers to offer for the deck. Some highlights are the Titans, Crater Hellion, Flametongue Kavu, Nekrataal and friends, Stoneforge Mystic, Blade Splicer and Reveillark. Multicolor adds Kitchen Finks and Murderous Redcap to the mix.
If they cannot stop your chain Birthing Pod causes all sorts of troubles for your opponent. For one or two mana a turn, you keep getting your selection of ETB triggers and creatures that get bigger turn after turn, often leaving behind additional bodies. Building a deck around Birthing Pod is tons of fun, and as Usman said, it is not even necessary to build around, it naturally fits in some existing decks.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
With all due respect, Birthing Pod is no Recurring Nightmare. I don't complain about the quality of Recurring Nightmare because Recurring Nightmare is the best black card. So complaining about the card quality on Pod is not the same thing as whining about Nightmare not being good enough would be.
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"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Still, I look forward to testing the Pod, and I'll be sure to leave lots of detailed feedback after I continue to marathon playtest the new 450 list.
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Which saddens me deeply because there is a da vinci pod alter that i want with all of my soul.
That's changing. I will still do winston and sealed, but I'll be doing 5+ person drafts with far more regularity than before.
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Thats good to hear. The cards really fun and can lead to some sweet games.
Great insight. Thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to seeing it in action and finding out what kind of interactions I can find.
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One other thing to point out that I've noticed is that, at least in our group, the phyrexian mana symbol might as well be a normal green mana symbol. Playing it a turn early basically never happens. I may have seen it played and activated on turn four a couple of times, but even that's a rare occasion.
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i've been playing it in my cube and its one of my playgroup's favorite cards to build around.
new to the forum so i hope its alright posting here (not intending to necro)
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I had exactly the same experience (unpowered cube), I tested it a while and I just took it out. It's a shame because I really want more green noncreature cards.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
I don't know. Maybe. If the speed of the game drops by a turn or two, you can get a lot more value from Pod. So slower cubes with big curves would benefit more. That doesn't mean powered vs unpowered, but just fast vs slow in general.
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