@Spike Rogue: Excellent response and I totally agree with the sentiment. I'd really love to see a Rabblemaster caliber attacking creature for green's 3-drop section. If I were to rank green's beat down 3-drops, I'd go like this:
01 Den Protector (she does a surprising amount of beating down as an unblockable 3/2)
02 Tireless Tracker
03 Boon Satyr
04 Managorger Hydra
05 Troll Ascetic
06 Call of the Herd
07 Wolfir Avenger
And on the subject of Selvala, she seems like one of those cards you have to play with before you can really form a true opinion on it. I've read it over and over again now and it just looks mediocre. She does a lot, but it's still somehow not enough.
Also, just for the record, ranking stuff is fun no matter how relevant it is.
The card draw is the least relevant part of Selvala. You play her for the ramp and fixing or not at all. I do not know at which cube size you start adding green super ramp, but so far she has fueled her share of eldrazi titans.
I'm considering switching up my green section a bit. I want to promote the type of green stompy-aggro that plays a mana dork on T1 and a 3cc beatstick on turn 2. I'm looking for 2 or maybe 3 cards to fill the role of the 3cc beatstick. One is going to be Kazandu Mammoth because it looks awesome. I'm looking for a couple others to choose from. I see a lot of cubes run Tireless Tracker but that card has always looked a little underwhelming to me. Troll Ascetic was a bulldozer back in the day, but could it fill this roll now? So, what are some other suggestions?
I'll vouch for Tireless Tracker being an absolutely amazing card in Cube. There seldom is a Game with Tireless Tracker out where I don't find a new interaction for it.
I think my eternal love for the card comes from the night I paired it with Smokestack..
Oh yea, Tireless Tracker is great for us in like everything, even Mono green ramp. I’d vouch the house on it, the card sees play all the way to legacy for good reason. Meanwhile Courser of Kruphix obviously isn’t an aggro card, but the card draw aspect of it makes it pretty good in aggro decks too if you want your aggro 3 drops to be as versatile as possible. I haven’t been able to play the new set yet, but Mammoth seems pretty good and I’m guessing Tracker is probably a bit better than that For comparison.
Beyond that, if this discussion also involves versatile multicolored green 3 drops as well, Kitchen Finks is fantastic in everything too (Although I’m sure that’s no surprise). A great 3cmc Gruul card for us has been Klothys, God of Destiny which has been nothing short of spectacular and has probably become our second favorite Gruul card, and when ramped out on turn 2 still triggers nearly every time.
Cards like Beast Within and Song of the Dryads aren’t necessarily aggro cards but they still seem to always make their way into every green maindeck anyways (aggro included) for their versatility, so if you don’t play those they’re definitely a great choice to consider at the green 3cmc slot.
We only play like 5 mono-green 3s in total (6 when Xmage finally uploads the new set for Bala Ged Recovery), so I’d also be interested in hearing what good green 3s people are playing
If trying to go stompy green, Lovestruck Beast and Rhonas the Indomitable might be considerations. Green's got a few good beatdown creatures at 4cmc and 5cmc, but it's a little shallow at 3cmc outside of Kazandu Mammoth and Tireless Tracker. I'll second steve_man's suggestion of Jadelight Ranger. That card's always impressed me everytime I've played it.
I'll definitely give Tracker a try and maybe Jadelight Ranger. I don't like Lovestruck Beast because then bolting your Elf becomes almost a 2 for 1. And, he can't attack when played off Birds or Hierarch.
The reason for green three drops are incredibly strong is because they could often be played turn 2 more effectively off mana dorks and they should be able to take advantage of this interaction effectively.
Reclamation Sage is incredibly strong and I would argue a necessity for aggro/ midrange decks to keep up with the talisman/ mox/ signets out of control/ ramp decks. Auto 2 for 1. Great in Flicker, Pod, aggro/ midrange etc.
I would play any variant of these cards. All incredibly strong. (Yes I know the monkeys is a card, but I refuse to cards with that kind of art.)
Both pretty good in creature based midrange decks. Green planeswalkers are especially potent for their ability to often come down turn 2 off dorks or turn 3-4 into a board with blockers which makes it difficult for the opponent to remove. I'm personally giving Vivien a try to support the aristocrats/ Melira decks.
They're all pretty good. Growing Rites is much better than you think.
I've limited the number of green 2-3 aggro creatures and moved them into mostly white, black and red which have a much larger assortment of 2 drops. I just do not think aggro is where this color/ curve wants to be.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
How do people feel about Great Sable Stag these days? It's a 3/3 for 3 that can be difficult for control decks to combat.
Cheers,
rant
Control decks should be tri color these days - its almost never Blue-Black. There is a shortage of counter magic in cube - usually control decks have only 5-6 counterspells maximum and they are primarily used to stop planeswalkers/ non-creature spells. Creature should be handled via sweepers/ removal
Similarly, almost all the 3 drops I listed above generates a 2 for 1. That's already pretty good vs control.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I'm also looking for green 3-drops that can beatdown. I probably should've reiterated that. Specifically, I want to support the type of stompy decks that play a good 3-drop beater on turn 2 off a mana dork. So, I'm looking for options to run alongside Kazandu Mammoth and Tireless Tracker.
- Jadelight Ranger is actually surprisingly good. I've been pretty impressed by it. All three cases are pretty good - being able to filter the top of your library is very good, especially in Vintage Cube right now where finding the right disruption is incredibly important. shes also good in decks that need graveyard synergies such as Recurring Nightmare/ Seasons Past lists
- Viridian Shaman does a pretty good impression of Reclamation Sage, which is a very good card in vintage cubes
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Steel Leaf Champion is an excellent aggressive 3-drop, which is hard to justify due to the color-requirements. If you're in monogreen however it hits superhard and ignores most tokens, which is nice.
01 Den Protector (she does a surprising amount of beating down as an unblockable 3/2)
02 Tireless Tracker
03 Boon Satyr
04 Managorger Hydra
05 Troll Ascetic
06 Call of the Herd
07 Wolfir Avenger
And on the subject of Selvala, she seems like one of those cards you have to play with before you can really form a true opinion on it. I've read it over and over again now and it just looks mediocre. She does a lot, but it's still somehow not enough.
Also, just for the record, ranking stuff is fun no matter how relevant it is.
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1) Eternal Witness
2) Reclamation sage
3) Den protector
4) Tireless Tracker
5) Selvala, Heart of the wilds
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I'm considering switching up my green section a bit. I want to promote the type of green stompy-aggro that plays a mana dork on T1 and a 3cc beatstick on turn 2. I'm looking for 2 or maybe 3 cards to fill the role of the 3cc beatstick. One is going to be Kazandu Mammoth because it looks awesome. I'm looking for a couple others to choose from. I see a lot of cubes run Tireless Tracker but that card has always looked a little underwhelming to me. Troll Ascetic was a bulldozer back in the day, but could it fill this roll now? So, what are some other suggestions?
Cheers,
rant
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I think my eternal love for the card comes from the night I paired it with Smokestack..
Beyond that, if this discussion also involves versatile multicolored green 3 drops as well, Kitchen Finks is fantastic in everything too (Although I’m sure that’s no surprise). A great 3cmc Gruul card for us has been Klothys, God of Destiny which has been nothing short of spectacular and has probably become our second favorite Gruul card, and when ramped out on turn 2 still triggers nearly every time.
Cards like Beast Within and Song of the Dryads aren’t necessarily aggro cards but they still seem to always make their way into every green maindeck anyways (aggro included) for their versatility, so if you don’t play those they’re definitely a great choice to consider at the green 3cmc slot.
We only play like 5 mono-green 3s in total (6 when Xmage finally uploads the new set for Bala Ged Recovery), so I’d also be interested in hearing what good green 3s people are playing
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Cheers,
rant
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Here are the green three drops in my cube:
1. ETB Destroy target Artifact
- Manglehorn/ Viridian Shaman/ Reclamation Sage
Reclamation Sage is incredibly strong and I would argue a necessity for aggro/ midrange decks to keep up with the talisman/ mox/ signets out of control/ ramp decks. Auto 2 for 1. Great in Flicker, Pod, aggro/ midrange etc.
I would play any variant of these cards. All incredibly strong. (Yes I know the monkeys is a card, but I refuse to cards with that kind of art.)
2. Value creatures for staying on the board:
- Nissa, Vastwood Seer/ Tireless Tracker/ Courser of Kruphix/ Dryad of the Ilysian Grove
All very strong.
3. ETB Value:
- Eternal Witness/ Nissa, Vastwood Seer/ Courser of Kruphix / llanowar visionary/ Jadelight Ranger
Nissa and Courser are listed twice. These are all very strong.
4. Green Planeswalkers:
- Nissa, Voice of Zendikar / Vivien, Champion of the Wilds
Both pretty good in creature based midrange decks. Green planeswalkers are especially potent for their ability to often come down turn 2 off dorks or turn 3-4 into a board with blockers which makes it difficult for the opponent to remove. I'm personally giving Vivien a try to support the aristocrats/ Melira decks.
5. Green Removal:
- Beast Within
If this was changed to "Elk Within", I wonder how much more play this card will have ..
6. Combo Green Creature:
- Spike Feeder
Its for the Heliod/ Archeangel of Thune combo
7. Green Ramp:
- Cultivate/ Kodama's Reach/ Awakening Zone/ Heartbeat of Spring/ Growing Rites of Itlimoc
They're all pretty good. Growing Rites is much better than you think.
I've limited the number of green 2-3 aggro creatures and moved them into mostly white, black and red which have a much larger assortment of 2 drops. I just do not think aggro is where this color/ curve wants to be.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Cheers,
rant
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Control decks should be tri color these days - its almost never Blue-Black. There is a shortage of counter magic in cube - usually control decks have only 5-6 counterspells maximum and they are primarily used to stop planeswalkers/ non-creature spells. Creature should be handled via sweepers/ removal
Similarly, almost all the 3 drops I listed above generates a 2 for 1. That's already pretty good vs control.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I'm also looking for green 3-drops that can beatdown. I probably should've reiterated that. Specifically, I want to support the type of stompy decks that play a good 3-drop beater on turn 2 off a mana dork. So, I'm looking for options to run alongside Kazandu Mammoth and Tireless Tracker.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
- Viridian Shaman does a pretty good impression of Reclamation Sage, which is a very good card in vintage cubes
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
We like Jadelight Ranger. It’s a nice combo of value, selection, and power all in one card.
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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